Jimbo..
Well-known member
I love this thread
The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
LLWillysfan, in looking at your latest progress pics, I'm wondering about the depth of snow you get up there in Maine. Will your garage exhaust fan's vent need its own 'snow awning' to keep it clear? Is this the sort of thing that has to be engineered now so that the stucco crew can prep for its installation? My question is probably moot since your design planning is amazing to us all; you've probably already got this one 'covered' (pun intended)!
Hottrod
Well-known member
This build continues to be so improbably cool.... keep up the excellent work!!
I noticed a few things bout metal track and stud construction. Your WiFi will **** on a horizontal plane. The metal creates some sort of interference box. So run a **** load of cat 5. And I mean **** load. If you think you might need a light or a camera outside, do it. Plan on having multiple WiFi routers per 40' span.
Metal framing also seems to transfer sound inside the house quite well. Most customers don't want insulation in the metal, but I thought I would be clever and put it in on my personal house, didn't help. So as far as that goes, it will be a toss up on how much extra $$$ you want to drop on your house.
Make sure you install plywood blocking in areas that you will be hanging TV and all that stuff. I mean, I have my 55" TV hanging with just toggles on 5/8" sheetrock, on a swing arm, and all is good in the hood.
I still prefer metal though. It is much quieter to install. Much faster. Screws don't back out a year later like wood. You can have one guy bring up all the material for whole house in 20 min.
Order yourself some 10' sheetrock, it will be your friend. One less seem to tape pays off dividends.
Make sure one stud in every corner is not zipped in, you need to use a loose one to hold the sheerock in place making a solid corner. I think I see you doing that, but not sure from the current pics.
Oh and how much fun are you having attaching those tracks to that concrete?
Metal framing also seems to transfer sound inside the house quite well. Most customers don't want insulation in the metal, but I thought I would be clever and put it in on my personal house, didn't help. So as far as that goes, it will be a toss up on how much extra $$$ you want to drop on your house.
Make sure you install plywood blocking in areas that you will be hanging TV and all that stuff. I mean, I have my 55" TV hanging with just toggles on 5/8" sheetrock, on a swing arm, and all is good in the hood.
I still prefer metal though. It is much quieter to install. Much faster. Screws don't back out a year later like wood. You can have one guy bring up all the material for whole house in 20 min.
Order yourself some 10' sheetrock, it will be your friend. One less seem to tape pays off dividends.
Make sure one stud in every corner is not zipped in, you need to use a loose one to hold the sheerock in place making a solid corner. I think I see you doing that, but not sure from the current pics.
Oh and how much fun are you having attaching those tracks to that concrete?
I just read the whole thread from the beginning. I really want to thank you for your work in documenting this amazing build and letting us all be a part of it!
You mentioning planing a concrete staircase made me think of this build:
You can see the staircase at 27:46 and 42:04, there is also a part in there somewhere how they built it.
cheers
You mentioning planing a concrete staircase made me think of this build:
You can see the staircase at 27:46 and 42:04, there is also a part in there somewhere how they built it.
cheers
Despite some very wet weather we've managed to make some more progress. The 1 1/2" foam base for the stucco is mostly complete on the garage structure. The front;
And the side;
Here you can see the reveals we're cutting into the foam to create a pattern that serves two purposes; It adds some detail and interest as well as providing the finishers a place to start and stop.
Here's a close up of the grooves;
And here's the tool they use to cut the grooves;
They've applied the base coat to this section. They apply a layer of fiberglass mesh (working it into the grooves - before applying the uncolored base coat. This is followed with a integrally covered top coat.
We got a major rain storm hours after they finished. We protected the fresh stucco as well as we could but we got some minor damage. You can see some discoloration that resulted. Shouldn't be a major issue - they'll just re-apply another base coat.
Water infiltration revealed the need for this;
I opted to apply the stucco prior to installation of roofing. I didn't want all that traffic and mess on my brand new roof membrane. Unfortunately this permitted water to make it's way under the roof blocking and behind the stucco. My solution was to cover the roof curbs with self adhering flashing. It's an unexpected expense but it's still better than wear and tear on the roof.
I even had to build a little scupper to let water drain off the roof away from the stucco. We'll remove it just before the roofing goes down
Meanwhile, my guys have been prepping ahead of the stucco crew. You can see the white drip edge that makes up the bottom of the stucco system. The blocking above will secure metal flashing that covers the top.
We are covering all of the roof fascias with stucco. Here's the porch roof.
On another front, the metal framers have roughed out the drop ceiling in the main living space. The lower ceiling provides space for duct work.
Another project is pre-painting the clapboards. The wall framing that separates the garage from my workshop makes a good place to mount some drying racks;
I was originally going to use cement clapboards..........obviously. In the end I decided to go with good old fashioned cedar because of the mitered corner detail, which I thought would be difficult with the cement boards.
The clear vertical grain clapboards came pre-primed. We're brushing on a coat of paint before we put them up and will apply the second coat in place. We're installing them in a rain screen configuration to hopefully extend the paints life as long as possible.
Why clapboards on a modern concrete house? I felt like the house needed to acknowledge it's place and there's nothing more Maine than traditional white clapboards.
That brings you up to date. With some better weather ahead I hope to speed up the progress and make my roofing schedule of October 1st.
And the side;
Here you can see the reveals we're cutting into the foam to create a pattern that serves two purposes; It adds some detail and interest as well as providing the finishers a place to start and stop.
Here's a close up of the grooves;
And here's the tool they use to cut the grooves;
They've applied the base coat to this section. They apply a layer of fiberglass mesh (working it into the grooves - before applying the uncolored base coat. This is followed with a integrally covered top coat.
We got a major rain storm hours after they finished. We protected the fresh stucco as well as we could but we got some minor damage. You can see some discoloration that resulted. Shouldn't be a major issue - they'll just re-apply another base coat.
Water infiltration revealed the need for this;
I opted to apply the stucco prior to installation of roofing. I didn't want all that traffic and mess on my brand new roof membrane. Unfortunately this permitted water to make it's way under the roof blocking and behind the stucco. My solution was to cover the roof curbs with self adhering flashing. It's an unexpected expense but it's still better than wear and tear on the roof.
I even had to build a little scupper to let water drain off the roof away from the stucco. We'll remove it just before the roofing goes down
Meanwhile, my guys have been prepping ahead of the stucco crew. You can see the white drip edge that makes up the bottom of the stucco system. The blocking above will secure metal flashing that covers the top.
We are covering all of the roof fascias with stucco. Here's the porch roof.
On another front, the metal framers have roughed out the drop ceiling in the main living space. The lower ceiling provides space for duct work.
Another project is pre-painting the clapboards. The wall framing that separates the garage from my workshop makes a good place to mount some drying racks;
I was originally going to use cement clapboards..........obviously. In the end I decided to go with good old fashioned cedar because of the mitered corner detail, which I thought would be difficult with the cement boards.
The clear vertical grain clapboards came pre-primed. We're brushing on a coat of paint before we put them up and will apply the second coat in place. We're installing them in a rain screen configuration to hopefully extend the paints life as long as possible.
Why clapboards on a modern concrete house? I felt like the house needed to acknowledge it's place and there's nothing more Maine than traditional white clapboards.
That brings you up to date. With some better weather ahead I hope to speed up the progress and make my roofing schedule of October 1st.
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Thanks to everyone for your continuing interest and comments - the dialogue is entertaining as hell.
That's a great question. To be honest, I hadn't given sound control a lot of thought. I guess I better start.
The top coat is integrally colored. We are trying a new product that is billed as 'self cleaning'. It has an additive that is supposed to encourage dirt to wash off the surface. we'll see if it works.
I'm operating on the theory that the prevailing north wind will keep the back of the garage clear of snow. If not, I might need to fall back on the old snow shovel. The vent placement isn't ideal but my options were limited.
Wow. Great information Slickgt1. I've made note of all of your comments. Thank you very much.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm moving away from my comfort zone as the project moves past the structural phase. I'm hoping people will weigh in if they have expertise that I lack.
That's a great question. To be honest, I hadn't given sound control a lot of thought. I guess I better start.
The top coat is integrally colored. We are trying a new product that is billed as 'self cleaning'. It has an additive that is supposed to encourage dirt to wash off the surface. we'll see if it works.
I'm operating on the theory that the prevailing north wind will keep the back of the garage clear of snow. If not, I might need to fall back on the old snow shovel. The vent placement isn't ideal but my options were limited.
Wow. Great information Slickgt1. I've made note of all of your comments. Thank you very much.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm moving away from my comfort zone as the project moves past the structural phase. I'm hoping people will weigh in if they have expertise that I lack.
granada don
Active member
- Joined
- May 20, 2013
- Messages
- 34
Hi LL
All the details needed to build your new cement pad is just unbelievable, hard to stay ahead of mother nature at times with what she can throw at you
Sure is taking shape now and can see the final look very well
Thanks again for the great pics & info as you go along
G Don
All the details needed to build your new cement pad is just unbelievable, hard to stay ahead of mother nature at times with what she can throw at you
Sure is taking shape now and can see the final look very well
Thanks again for the great pics & info as you go along
G Don
Motown 454
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,359
It looks awesome.
We are covering all of the roof fascias with stucco. Here's the porch roof.
Congrats on the use of EIFS. It is a great product when installed correctly.
Above the porch roof, it looks like you are setup to 'stucco', a short vertical wall left of the chimney. Is your lower roof membrane going to be able to turn up and terminate on the wall below that stucco (or behind it)? If you terminate a roof by attaching to the face of the stucco, beware. It may not leak immediately but it Will be a maintenance item.
Will you run the stucco up the chimney also? What kind of chimney top do you have in the works?
What brand/type of membrane did you end up selecting?
What's the ETA for glass?
is the gray stucco sprayed directly over the foam (with the mesh installed)?
is there a vapor barrier or it's not needed on the outside of ICF?
Also, did you install that extra layer of foam for extra insulation? Could you have stucco'ed directly over the ICF foam?
I know some ICF companies offer various thickness on each side of their blocks, i.e. you can have very thin inside to help the thermomass with the heat/AC inside (very cold or warm places), or you coul dhave thin outside foam to have the same effect but with outside temp (in places where average day/night is close to 70).
is there a vapor barrier or it's not needed on the outside of ICF?
Also, did you install that extra layer of foam for extra insulation? Could you have stucco'ed directly over the ICF foam?
I know some ICF companies offer various thickness on each side of their blocks, i.e. you can have very thin inside to help the thermomass with the heat/AC inside (very cold or warm places), or you coul dhave thin outside foam to have the same effect but with outside temp (in places where average day/night is close to 70).
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Thedoc14
Well-known member
Love it LL, even with just he foam you get a sense of what it will look like. Great update well worth the wait .
I spy the camper still on site. Is that still the living quarters and have you had any problems with unwanted guests trying to make off building materials/tools ?
Fantastic project and I greatly admire your persistence and determination.
When I first started following your project, I was expecting to see that the exterior would be mostly exposed concrete. I live in a bush fire prone country (Australia) and concrete walls seemed like a pretty good idea for a home in the forest. I understand the need for insulation to keep the house warm in your severe winters, but do you have any concern about the fire resistance of the EIFS you are using ?
When I first started following your project, I was expecting to see that the exterior would be mostly exposed concrete. I live in a bush fire prone country (Australia) and concrete walls seemed like a pretty good idea for a home in the forest. I understand the need for insulation to keep the house warm in your severe winters, but do you have any concern about the fire resistance of the EIFS you are using ?
After years of looking at a white cardboard model and a white styrofoam house, we now have color. The top coat of stucco is going on.
While I've been calling it stucco, the correct term is EIFS or Exterior Insulation Finish System. It is also commonly referred to as Dryvit. Here's a few pics of the first days results.
The grooves provide a convenient place to stop and start the application of finish as you would see a 'cold joint' if you stopped in the middle of a section.
The difference from the white ICF is striking. We love the result but I wonder what others will think. The color looks great with the dark anodized window frames and light fixtures.
The contrast with the white clapboards that wrap the first floor should also be striking. Here's the fin wall in the front of the house that they've started wrapping in foam. The ICF's on either side will get covered with clapboards and give the impression that they pass thru the EIFS.
Here's a shot of the end of the garage where the base coat is complete. You can also see the final grading around the propane tank.
Meanwhile the metal framing continues on the interior. Here's the kitchen island
We're also furring out the inside of the garage walls. If you recall, the ICF overhangs the foundation by 2 1/2". We're starting out by using 2" rigid and metal Z furring. I'll cover this with 1/2" plywood backer before drywalling. The channel you see if to run electrical for the thousand or so outlets I plan on installing
We've also built the curb for the 10' x 10' pyramid skylight that provides additional headroom over the in-floor Rotary lift
And finally, from the 'dammit I forgot that' department we have cored some holes for the propane boiler intake and exhaust.
And the vent for the hood over the outside gas grill
So there you have it. Another weeks worth of progress. We've got some good weather lined up so I'm hoping for lots of progress on the EIFS. Plus we're starting clapboards this week and well as some additional items.
While I've been calling it stucco, the correct term is EIFS or Exterior Insulation Finish System. It is also commonly referred to as Dryvit. Here's a few pics of the first days results.
The grooves provide a convenient place to stop and start the application of finish as you would see a 'cold joint' if you stopped in the middle of a section.
The difference from the white ICF is striking. We love the result but I wonder what others will think. The color looks great with the dark anodized window frames and light fixtures.
The contrast with the white clapboards that wrap the first floor should also be striking. Here's the fin wall in the front of the house that they've started wrapping in foam. The ICF's on either side will get covered with clapboards and give the impression that they pass thru the EIFS.
Here's a shot of the end of the garage where the base coat is complete. You can also see the final grading around the propane tank.
Meanwhile the metal framing continues on the interior. Here's the kitchen island
We're also furring out the inside of the garage walls. If you recall, the ICF overhangs the foundation by 2 1/2". We're starting out by using 2" rigid and metal Z furring. I'll cover this with 1/2" plywood backer before drywalling. The channel you see if to run electrical for the thousand or so outlets I plan on installing
We've also built the curb for the 10' x 10' pyramid skylight that provides additional headroom over the in-floor Rotary lift
And finally, from the 'dammit I forgot that' department we have cored some holes for the propane boiler intake and exhaust.
And the vent for the hood over the outside gas grill
So there you have it. Another weeks worth of progress. We've got some good weather lined up so I'm hoping for lots of progress on the EIFS. Plus we're starting clapboards this week and well as some additional items.
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Boosted1
Well-known member
Wow! I love to see the updates.
I'll post some pictures of the area to the left of the chimney so you can see what we're doing. We aren't planning on running roofing over the stucco but I welcome your comments once the details are clearer.
To answer your questions; The chimney will remain exposed concrete, I'm pretty sure the roof membrane is Firestone, the chimney top is still under review but will incorporate a cap for the fireplace vent and an exhaust fan for the gas grill vent hood, and the eta on glass is late October.
The gray stucco is the base coat and is troweled over the foam. There is no vapor barrier on the outside or inside of the of the ICF. The foam itself won't permit the intrusion of moist air. I could have direct applied the stucco over the ICF's but I wouldn't have been able to cut the grooves.
We're still living on site and intend to gut it out in the camper until the house is done. No security problems as yet Nutts. We're a long way down a gravel road and there are people around much of the time.
We don't face much of a fire risk in these parts so we don't have to make many provisions for it. By and large this will be as flame resistant a structure as you're likely to see around here.
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Stuart in MN
Well-known member
I was kind of expecting the final finish was going to be white, but the dark grey looks great.
WOW, what a change.
HOTFR8
Banned
Some where or some how you will need to get a Graffiti artist to paint a Willys on the wall.
Oggy
Well-known member
Love the finish.
Sorry to get into detail, but what did you use to core the holes? I'm assuming it was a core rig (diamond bit, water cooled) Was it a vacuum system that attached to the wall like Hilti's system? Or another system?
Sorry to get into detail, but what did you use to core the holes? I'm assuming it was a core rig (diamond bit, water cooled) Was it a vacuum system that attached to the wall like Hilti's system? Or another system?
monkeyplasm
Well-known member
The dark stucco should help hide the deck guns on the roof.
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
What a fantastic update LL!! I think the color of the EIFS looks great, definitely helps keep it sinister and classy. All at the same time. Nice!
You might want to check on the distance between the intake and exhaust vents for the boiler.
Ours did not pass inspection until the fresh air vent was extended more than a foot away from the exhaust. Now I have a pipe running alongside the foundation which we covered with a bush to conceal it.
Also need to think of snow as well.
Ours did not pass inspection until the fresh air vent was extended more than a foot away from the exhaust. Now I have a pipe running alongside the foundation which we covered with a bush to conceal it.
Also need to think of snow as well.
Cemoto
Well-known member
Lookin' good BillieRay!
cdrewferd
Well-known member
Just caught up. Amazing build. That EIFS looks great. Can't wait to see the windows you are talking about.
Because the windows are going in after the final siding/stucco, how will you direct water around/outside the openings (doors/windows)?
Will you wedge the flashing under the foam before sliding the windows in (for the top$sde portions)? and will you put flashing to over the foam at the bottom so that water runs off outside?
Will you wedge the flashing under the foam before sliding the windows in (for the top$sde portions)? and will you put flashing to over the foam at the bottom so that water runs off outside?
Sunbimmer
Well-known member
Outstanding choice of the color I'm very curious of how the end result will be.... I don't think I'm the only one
Thanks for the update !!
I'm very curious of how the end result will be.... I don't think I'm the only one Thanks for the update !!
neonnblack
Well-known member
I will also echo, the dark grey looks very nice.
cderalow
Well-known member
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
Perspective is everything. The one on the left appears to be a little lower, but as an amateur photo enthusiast, I know how angles sometimes wind up in photo. I'd guess they're level, and its the photo. But I see it too.
Vernmotor
Well-known member
They look crooked to me ??? But I was not going to say anything..might be a reason
As a custom home builder near Portland Oregon since 1979, I am beyond impressed by the talents of your entire team. It's a shame that the entire point of this type of architecture is to in its final form appear simple. All of the thousands of intricate structural details disappear from view. Thanks for your impressive effort to share all these details and time consuming explanations with those of us that are intreagued by this type monkey motion.
I lucked out and found your thread a few days ago and read the whole thing in a few evenings. I didn't have to suffer along with the rest of your loyal followers wondering what you guys were up to !
Keep up the head of steam, because as you know, winter is just around the corner. I assume you'll be able to button the exterior up fully with the arrival of the windows. That should provide a hospitable environment to intall the balance of the mechanical systems and move onto the finish phase.
I and the rest of your peers will be watching as you take this thing to the finish line
I lucked out and found your thread a few days ago and read the whole thing in a few evenings. I didn't have to suffer along with the rest of your loyal followers wondering what you guys were up to !
Keep up the head of steam, because as you know, winter is just around the corner. I assume you'll be able to button the exterior up fully with the arrival of the windows. That should provide a hospitable environment to intall the balance of the mechanical systems and move onto the finish phase.
I and the rest of your peers will be watching as you take this thing to the finish line
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We must be on a roll - two updates in as many days. Work continues on the EIFS on the front of the garage. They've cut the grooves and started the base layer;
I'm very happy with the skill and attention to detail these guys bring everyday. And, no that stepladder is not perched on the plywood hanging off the parapet.
When they have a few minutes available, they jump ahead and get a jump start on new areas. Here's the end wall on the second story of the house where they've starting applying the 1 1/2" foam.
Meanwhile the framer has made progress in the workshop
As the workshop finally gets some attention, I can't help but start thinking about how awesome it's going to be when finished
I've also got some carpenters working on the clapboards;
We're installing the clapboards in a rain screen configuration, which basically means they are set off the face of the building on furring strips. The resulting air space is ventilated top and bottom and allows the clapboards to dry out more quickly and (hopefully) extend the life of the paint.
We are trying to do a modern interpretation of an otherwise traditional material by minimizing the trim and mitering the corners.
My crew finished up the roof curbs for the 6 x 6 pyramid skylights over the Master Bedroom and the Dressing Room
Just a quick little update - I'll have more shortly. Seems like we're finally picking up a little steam
I'm very happy with the skill and attention to detail these guys bring everyday. And, no that stepladder is not perched on the plywood hanging off the parapet.
When they have a few minutes available, they jump ahead and get a jump start on new areas. Here's the end wall on the second story of the house where they've starting applying the 1 1/2" foam.
Meanwhile the framer has made progress in the workshop
As the workshop finally gets some attention, I can't help but start thinking about how awesome it's going to be when finished
I've also got some carpenters working on the clapboards;
We're installing the clapboards in a rain screen configuration, which basically means they are set off the face of the building on furring strips. The resulting air space is ventilated top and bottom and allows the clapboards to dry out more quickly and (hopefully) extend the life of the paint.
We are trying to do a modern interpretation of an otherwise traditional material by minimizing the trim and mitering the corners.
My crew finished up the roof curbs for the 6 x 6 pyramid skylights over the Master Bedroom and the Dressing Room
Just a quick little update - I'll have more shortly. Seems like we're finally picking up a little steam
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I took a photo of the area you are referring to OHSCrifle. The foam will obviously get covered with the EIFS and the plywood will get covered with the roofing membrane. Hopefully this works.
The boiler manufacturer calls for 6.25" between the intake and exhaust. A common hood covers both pipes, which I assume has some kind of built in separator. The larger sleeved opening to the right is for the stale air exhaust.
The groung falls away sharply from the face of the foundation so hopefully snow isn't an issue. Unfortunately my options for locating all the utilities were limited so I'm hoping they all work
I've been trying to come up with a way to put some kind of personal imprint into the EIFS. I didn't even put a hand print in the concrete. This thread might be the only record of the crazy guy who built this thing.
Basic Hilti core drill, bolted to the wall.
Damn. Are my motives that obvious? Actually the color was selected to help the structure blend into the site. The inspiration was tree bark.
If there is a reason I will blame the photo and say that I knew it..
Wow. Tough crowd. Actually I noticed the same thing. Shouldn't be a problem since I'm running 4" PVC thru a 5" core hole. Should be enough give to allow the shroud to be installed plumb and level.
Welcome aboard Tdoriot. I'm honored when accomplished custom home builders approve of what we're doing. I'll be the first to admit that I'm first and foremost a concrete guy and am getting further and further away from my core competency. I'm hoping that you and others can keep me out of trouble.