The Concrete Underground

[ConCretin]

Sure looking good with the glass in place, just wondering how thick the glass is on that large of a piece to keep them from breaking in a strong wind?

Thanks Don. The windows are engineered for a pretty healthy wind load plus all the glass is tempered. Just have to hope there aren't a lot of solid objects being carried along by the wind.

i must have missed it, but where is the basement located?

Jim, the only basement is under the master bedroom area extending out about 10' into the main living space. The rest is all slab on grade - though there are some tunnels.

We're starting a similar installation on our ICF house this week and this will be my first time installing windows like this - so your go at them is making me feel better about what is to come for us. (I guess I'm not used to modern quality caulking or windows built to modern tolerances.) This requires a lot of attention to details and making sure all the measurements tie before the windows are ordered!

How do you feel about the install? Do the caulk joints look good close up? Did you have to use backer rod for the joints?

What is your plan for the foam across the garage doors? Are you going to use a metal plate or rubber seal across the insulated part of the sill? Did you use a high compression (60psi, etc.) foam for that area?

It does require some effort to ensure the rough openings are plumb, level and square so the windows fit properly. This is especially challenging when your carpentry must stand up to thousands of pounds of concrete pressure. We field measured all our openings before ordering windows but the exterior caulk joints are exposed and I wanted them to to be as uniform as possible.

They haven't started caulking yet but I'll post some pics when they do. They will be using backer rod. It's taken me a while to warm up to the idea of relying so heavily on caulked joints but it's pretty typical in commercial construction and the products have come a long way.

I'll cover to cover the top of the rigid at the garage doors with a glue down weatherstrip

I've seen the treatment in many commercial and steel windows but I have never seen a commercial installation with wood window bucks and wooden structural mulls. Getting the tolerances on a poured opening can also more challenging vs. framing a light commercial facade in metal or traditional masonry.

I'd also be interested to know if the wood openings needed any adjustment or planing here before the window was installed. They look perfect.

All the openings are concrete with a cast-in wood buck. Thanks to some very skilled workers, we've only made a few minor adjustments. The joints around the windows are surprisingly consistent, which means the rough openings are almost perfectly square. Given the tolerances you typically expect from formed concrete, I'm very pleased.

I'm not sure if they do it up you way Doug but when winter comes, alot of the mobile homeowners (rural area) will stack bales of straw around the perimeter of their home.

They do the same thing up here Nutts. It works great but I was afraid hay bales would be pushing my luck with my thus far very patient and understanding wife.

 

[BeachBoy]

though there are some tunnels.

hummm.. ????

 

[madoc1]

now i see the entrance (i think) to basement in the pic of the b'room windows. thanks bob for pg. 12, and ll for the explanation. but, yeah-tunnels?

jim

 

[56rpm]

Such a cool build. Kudos and continued good luck.

Bob

 

[signcrafter]

They do the same thing up here Nutts. It works great but I was afraid hay bales would be pushing my luck with my thus far very patient and understanding wife.

Probably helps when her view out of the camper is that gorgeous mansion and the nice river view! I think I could handle the camper for a while with those things as my view.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I've seen a few people put black plastic over the bales to make it tighter against the cold air. Put them up, cover them up and add some Christmas lights to make them festive. Since it's already cold, I bet she appreciate the difference in the morning when she gets up out of bed without her slippers.

 

[granada don]

Great idea Nutts

At 72' I still like to look at the Christmas lights and just about ready to put mine on my tree

G Don

 

[ConCretin]

Window installation continues on the upper floors using a 40 boom lift with a glazing basket, which includes padded hooks to support the glass panels



Some of the units weigh well over 200 lbs and there is no good way to erect staging



The lift is the best solution



My HVAC contractor showed up Monday and went to freakin town. I'm very impressed with their production and quality. They plan to have the heat on by Friday



We've had to postpone the final installation of the geothermal system for budget reasons. We'll be utilizing a wall mounted propane boiler that was originally to act as back up to the geothermal to supply the radiant heat We're also installing all the ductwork that is covered with sheetrock and building in all the connection points for a future heat pump install.

Finally here's a view you haven't seen in a while. Now that you mention it, it does look a little like an evil lair.



Lots more going on but I only got a few pics - will have more soon.

 

[granada don]

Hi Doug

That's good news on the heating front, looks like a toasty Christmas for you & your's

G Don

 

[signcrafter]

In a structure like this do you expect it to take more or less to heat then a "traditional" house?

What parts of the geo thermal are going to be put off till later? What parts are going to be or already done?

Looks like some great progress is happening! Once the windows are in and the place is closed up with some heat are you planning on setting up some temp living quarters in there to get out of the camper? Or are you going to wait until it's all done to move in?

The outside is getting close to being done correct? How long do you plan before the inside will be done?

 

[JimL]

IMHO, Heat with the boiler and cool with regular forced air ac. Or better yet put in air to air heat pump and use boiler for backup… I am sure the house will be easy to heat and cool, built tight. Heat pump will heat down to 15 easy…
I am not a fan of geo, just don't see the savings. Cost 2-3 times as much or more and with todays higher seer equipment at a much lower price the saving isn't there. Same life out of the equipment. Sometimes less out of geo's

Regardless what you do, make sure it is installed right. You get one chance to do it. Even mediocre equipment will last with a good install… Good airflow, good filtration. Goes a loooooooong way towards the life of the equipment.

 

[OHSCrifle]

Looks awful cold. Wishing you a mild winter.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Looks great! I can hardly wait to see how you do the inside!

Jim

 

[NUTTSGT]

My HVAC contractor showed up Monday and went to freakin town. I'm very impressed with their production and quality. They plan to have the heat on by Friday

Anybody else think this looks like an optical illusion ? Look at the ceiling and the plywood wall. Does it appear that plywood is a divider wall with room behind it ?

 

[sickjuice]

Should have painted that plywood before letting them in there

 

[BigWil]

Anybody else think this looks like an optical illusion ? Look at the ceiling and the plywood wall. Does it appear that plywood is a divider wall with room behind it ?

It is a divider wall with room behind it...it divides the indoors from the outdoors. Remember the flack the OP got about his 2 vent holes being out about 1/2". lol

 

[BeachBoy]

In a structure like this do you expect it to take more or less to heat then a "traditional" house?

ICF houses takes much less heat/cooling than traditional houses. They are built tight and once the concrete gets to room temp it doesn't change even with outside temp swings.

 

[OHSCrifle]

Anybody else think this looks like an optical illusion ? Look at the ceiling and the plywood wall. Does it appear that plywood is a divider wall with room behind it ?

I agree but clearly the plywood is attached to the exterior wall. So the question is... What's the red stuff that appears to be pinched between the ceiling and the top of the plywood wall?

 

[Arps]

Ive spent the last couple hours reading through this thread. Here are a couple things I feel the need to say.

AMAZING BUILD!

Thank you for taking all the pictures and sharing them with us.

I have learned a lot reading all this.

I am jealous!

 

[Bob Heine]

I agree but clearly the plywood is attached to the exterior wall. So the question is... What's the red stuff that appears to be pinched between the ceiling and the top of the plywood wall?

I don't think the "red stuff" is actually being pinched. Those are the ends of the in-floor radiant heat tubing that cover the home and garage floors. Their location in the slab is pretty precise. If you click on the ">" below, you'll see more of this part of the process on and around page 42.

...

Here's an overview of the entire placement;

 

[OHSCrifle]

I don't think the "red stuff" is actually being pinched. Those are the ends of the in-floor radiant heat tubing that cover the home and garage floors. Their location in the slab is pretty precise. If you click on the ">" below, you'll see more of this part of the process on and around page 42.

On further review, I suppose the radiant tubing may just be going straight up into the floor slab above. Makes much more sense. Good call Bob.

 

[BeachBoy]

no radiant tubing in the garage?

 

[ConCretin]

We're on a bit of a roll now. Work on the windows is coming right along on the back of the house.



Meanwhile they're caulking out front. Must be miles of the stuff.



We installed the panel in the basement and ran temp power to the boiler, pumps, etc



Also completed the propane service to the basement and the boiler. Probably could have picked a better place for this.



Meanwhile my rock star heating crew is ready to fire up the radiant heat. Looks like a nuclear submarine down there.



Here's the termination of a typical radiant heating zone. There are a total of five.



They've hung the heat recovery unit. We're drawing stale air through vents in the bathrooms and bringing in fresh air through the heating/cooling ducts.



Here's the supply ductwork for the second floor. Since we're not installing the heat pumps or air handlers right now, we won't actually have hot or cold air but we're installing all the ductwork behind sheetrock.



The heating crew is concerned about running water through tubing imbedded in frozen concrete - apparently the concrete can freeze the water. My solution is a ground heater, of which I'm fortunate to own several. It's basically an oil fired boiler that supplies several thousand feet of tubing with hot water. When you lay the tubing out it can drive out frost or keep concrete warm.



We spread the tubing out on the slabs and covered them with insulated concrete blankets. The slabs will be warmed up nicely by morning



Since not all the windows are in, we're building some quick temp infills so we aren't heating all of the outdoors



Finally here's a shot of one of the mysterious tunnels I've made mention of. They are really just crawl spaces that run around the perimeter of the first floor for ductwork and other utilities. Sounds cooler than it is.



We should have heat tomorrow morning, which will open up whole new areas of work. Ya-freakin-hoo.

 

[randomtwinkie]

What sort of doors will be hung externally? I suppose internally as well..

 

[ConCretin]

In a structure like this do you expect it to take more or less to heat then a "traditional" house?

What parts of the geo thermal are going to be put off till later? What parts are going to be or already done?

Looks like some great progress is happening! Once the windows are in and the place is closed up with some heat are you planning on setting up some temp living quarters in there to get out of the camper? Or are you going to wait until it's all done to move in?

The outside is getting close to being done correct? How long do you plan before the inside will be done?

The concrete construction is much more efficient than a traditionally framed home but I suspect that all the glass cancels that out. I hope that on balance that we're at least average.

The full geothermal system will supply cooled are for the summer months and warm air in spring and fall when the slow reacting radiant isn't as comfortable. It will also supply the radiant tubing with hot water in winter and heat our domestic water.

We're holding off on the heat pumps, air handlers and ductwork that can be installed later such as in the tunnels.

We may move into the house if the camper gets too cold but so far it's not too bad and I think we'll be able to ride it out

The exterior will be pretty much done in a couple weeks and we hope to have the interior complete by spring

I am not a fan of geo, just don't see the savings. Cost 2-3 times as much or more and with todays higher seer equipment at a much lower price the saving isn't there. Same life out of the equipment. Sometimes less out of geo's

Regardless what you do, make sure it is installed right. You get one chance to do it. Even mediocre equipment will last with a good install… Good airflow, good filtration. Goes a loooooooong way towards the life of the equipment.

I don't necessarily disagree on the pay back. It's probably a lifetime proposition. I do think it will be a very comfortable and efficient system when it's done. Oil ain't getting any cheaper and the AC is a nice benefit.

Thanks for the advice on the install. I feel pretty good about the amount of thought and planning we put in and I think I've hired the best crew I could have.

Should have painted that plywood before letting them in there

Yea, I know. Too much going on I guess.

ICF houses takes much less heat/cooling than traditional houses. They are built tight and once the concrete gets to room temp it doesn't change even with outside temp swings.

The walls of glass are the big variable. At least most of them face South

no radiant tubing in the garage?

The garage does have radiant heat as well. The picture might be misleading because we place the garage slab before the house slab.

I agree but clearly the plywood is attached to the exterior wall. So the question is... What's the red stuff that appears to be pinched between the ceiling and the top of the plywood wall?

You guys figured it out. It does look odd but the red material is just radiant tubing coming straight down from the ceiling - it actually stands off the wall by several inches.



Thanks to everyone for the nice comments

 

[Jagmandave]

If they get the radiant heating fired up, maybe you could move the camper into the garage and just heat that zone?

I'm so envious, I've wanted to build an ICF house for years, already had an architect draw plans and everything, but the economy and my age make that a distant wish now.

This is turning out terrific!

I like the duct runs, they remind me of the escape route everyone in the movies somehow has at their disposal...

 

[granada don]

Hey Jag

That's a great idea of putting the camper in the garage to stay toasty warm

G Don

 

[JimL]

I don't necessarily disagree on the pay back. It's probably a lifetime proposition. I do think it will be a very comfortable and efficient system when it's done. Oil ain't getting any cheaper and the AC is a nice benefit.

Thanks for the advice on the install. I feel pretty good about the amount of thought and planning we put in and I think I've hired the best crew I could have.


From what I see here it looks great! Nice to see someone who takes pride in their work. I see too many new houses that the mechanicals are just **** and the homeowner is oblivious because they "trust their builder"

They doing any zoning of the forced air system?

House looks amazing. Great attention to detail!

 

[wssix99]

I don't necessarily disagree on the pay back.

If one pays US Federal income tax, the payback comes quickly. For the next two years, we get a 30% rebate on the system AND all equipment hooked up to it. (ducts, radiant, residential hot water) Just putting in a heat pump won't get a big rebate, but putting in an entire system does.

 

[ypzilon]

I am not a fan of geo, just don't see the savings. Cost 2-3 times as much or more and with todays higher seer equipment at a much lower price the saving isn't there. Same life out of the equipment. Sometimes less out of geo's

I guess it's really different here in Sweden compared to the US.
I think different heat-pumps have been the given choise in new houses for the last 20 years.
We use geothermal, ground, air to air, air to water and exhaust air heat pump.

In our house we put in a exhaust air heat pump, it costed about $10000 and saves us about $1800 every year (Six year pay-off and it will hopefully work for 10-20 years).

LLWillysfan: Your house looks great. Must be wonderful to have the outside almost done.

 

[Alexbn921]

Coming along fast now. Everything looks great. Insulation and an efficient comfortable heating system will pay you back every day you live in the house.

 

[Red Leader]

It's coming together real nicely!

 

[ct71rr]

Moving right along now! Looks awesome!

 

[ConCretin]

I don't have any pics for an update because it was too dark when I got home but I just wanna say one thing - it's 35 degrees outside but it's 48 and rising inside.

It's an amazing feeling to see this thing we've been building for 18 months have a life of it's own. It's alllliiiive.

 

[J-man67]

Haha that's great!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

 

[1949 caddyman]

Great news!

 

[NUTTSGT]

If they get the radiant heating fired up, maybe you could move the camper into the garage and just heat that zone?

I was going to suggest the same thing.

 

[ConCretin]

The only problem with the 'camper in the garage' idea are the 8' doors and a big *** 5th wheel camper that must stand 10 or 12' tall. Plus, can it really be legal to empty the tanks into the floor drains?

 

[hpw]

and also any CO2 gasses from heater combustion or sewer gases from vent pipe.

 

[LCG]

I don't have any pics for an update because it was too dark when I got home but I just wanna say one thing - it's 35 degrees outside but it's 48 and rising inside.

It's an amazing feeling to see this thing we've been building for 18 months have a life of it's own. It's alllliiiive.

Congratulations!