Thedoc14
Well-known member
WoooHoooo, Great milestone...
The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
madoc1
Well-known member
damn, warmer there than here! that really is a milestone. imagine your men coming to work and taking their coats off.
Should have put in bigger doors.
As far as the drains are concerned, no it's not legal but only illegal if you get caught. Nothing that flushing with copious amounts of water won't fix.
Did you put in a drop to drain the tanks now into the septic system ?
Not only did my crack heating crew get the heat on as promised, they also got all the duct work roughed in. This is the return duct for the master suite.
The fresh air system takes stale air out of the space through vents like these in the bathrooms and shower room and runs it thru the heat recovery unit before dumping it outside. There will be a timer that spools up the cfms on the fan when you want extra ventilation.
Since the master bedroom is cantilevered from the main structure, we can't bring heating/cooling ducts through the floor. My solution was to run them into the dressing room up a chase and into a soffit. Not ideal but the best I could come up with.
My roofing sub showed back up to continue with metal work associated with the roof and windows. They did some work on the gutters, which are basically built into the roof system. The gutter have a flange that nails down to the roof blocking below.
They then glue down rubber flashing to bond it to the roof membrane
With all the windows installed on the front of the house we can try out the new cloaking device. Every evil lair needs one of those, right?
One of the really neat things about the second floor is the views out both sides. On one side you get a lovely water view
Turn your head and you have a forest scene to enjoy.
Might not be obvious from the pictures but it really is kind of striking. This space will remain essentially open but large 'bookcases' will separate it into a reading room for my wife and an exercise area.
We're going to restore a little potbelly stove that has been in the family and install it in the reading area. It will be a nice place to curl up with a book in front of a fire and watch the Maine winter all around you. Kinda cool, huh?
We'll hopefully finish up the window install this week and the well company is coming to drop the permanent pump and get the domestic water on line. Next up after that is electrical and plumbing rough in.
That's all for now. The heat is slowly coming up but it's going to take a few days for that little boiler to overcome several millions pounds of frozen concrete.
The fresh air system takes stale air out of the space through vents like these in the bathrooms and shower room and runs it thru the heat recovery unit before dumping it outside. There will be a timer that spools up the cfms on the fan when you want extra ventilation.
Since the master bedroom is cantilevered from the main structure, we can't bring heating/cooling ducts through the floor. My solution was to run them into the dressing room up a chase and into a soffit. Not ideal but the best I could come up with.
My roofing sub showed back up to continue with metal work associated with the roof and windows. They did some work on the gutters, which are basically built into the roof system. The gutter have a flange that nails down to the roof blocking below.
They then glue down rubber flashing to bond it to the roof membrane
With all the windows installed on the front of the house we can try out the new cloaking device. Every evil lair needs one of those, right?
One of the really neat things about the second floor is the views out both sides. On one side you get a lovely water view
Turn your head and you have a forest scene to enjoy.
Might not be obvious from the pictures but it really is kind of striking. This space will remain essentially open but large 'bookcases' will separate it into a reading room for my wife and an exercise area.
We're going to restore a little potbelly stove that has been in the family and install it in the reading area. It will be a nice place to curl up with a book in front of a fire and watch the Maine winter all around you. Kinda cool, huh?
We'll hopefully finish up the window install this week and the well company is coming to drop the permanent pump and get the domestic water on line. Next up after that is electrical and plumbing rough in.
That's all for now. The heat is slowly coming up but it's going to take a few days for that little boiler to overcome several millions pounds of frozen concrete.
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The tanks on the camper have been hooked up to the septic system for a while now. I let the gray water run right thru the tanks and pull the lever on the black water tank as needed. It all works pretty well.
Most of the exterior doors are made by the same company that provided the windows - they call them 'terrace doors' and there are 6 of them. They are also providing a pivot door at the main entry. There are also a couple standard fiberglass doors for access into the basement and utility room. Holy ****, I've got a lot of doors.
The interior doors will be painted flush panels. We're milling custom frames for a detail that eliminates the need for door trim.
The geothermal HVAC system only serves the house - not the garage. I figure if we need AC out there, I'll just install a split unit.
There are three zones in the house; the main living space, the master suite and the upstairs.
I fear I sound like a broken record sometimes, but I really do appreciate your interest and comments. It adds a lot of positive energy to an otherwise challenging process.
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Good deal, thats the only way to do it. We don't do a lot of new construction, but when we do, we seldom if ever don't do zoning. Having individual control of each level is the only way to have both levels be comfortable. People that don't do zoning regret it...
signcrafter
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 12,317
And we appreciate the pictures and descriptions that go along with them! After working a day job and keeping the house build on track I would think you would be pretty tired and updating the thread might not be a high priority. But it's one of my favorite on garage journal so I appreciate you taking the time to share and let us all dream!
jriltex
Member
Thanks for your willingness and diligence in keeping us updated with all the details of your home construction project. I have both learned a lot as well as gained a new appreciation for the craft of concrete construction. It is absolutely amazing the level of detail and resultant accuracy you and your crew have achieved in building your home. Like many of the others...yours is the first post I look for when visiting the site. Thanks again for your explanations and great pictures.
hobbitss
Well-known member
Always looking forward to the latest updates..
Details are more than welcome..
The build is looking great, any chance you will be able to move in by New Years??..
No need to feel like a broken record, it's a very enjoyable thread.
with flush doors, you NEED concealed hinges...
either an ergon system for some awes when people come visit (very cool space saver hinge)
http://www.ergon.eu/ergon-living.asp
or standard hidden hinges by Soss
http://www.soss.com/invisible_hinges/
or Sugatsune
http://sugatsune.com/hinges-door-accessories/index.cfm?CATID=4&SUBCATID=1
or Simonswerk
http://www.simonswerk.us/
or other similar ones
either an ergon system for some awes when people come visit (very cool space saver hinge)
http://www.ergon.eu/ergon-living.asp
or standard hidden hinges by Soss
http://www.soss.com/invisible_hinges/
or Sugatsune
http://sugatsune.com/hinges-door-accessories/index.cfm?CATID=4&SUBCATID=1
or Simonswerk
http://www.simonswerk.us/
or other similar ones
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I'm a freak for little details (like door hinges above).
IMO you should put your thermostat in a recess in your walls (for the non-concrete walls of course)... or at least use a very modern looking thermostat (still even modern IMO it breaks the looks of a wall)
This one looks great:
IMO you should put your thermostat in a recess in your walls (for the non-concrete walls of course)... or at least use a very modern looking thermostat (still even modern IMO it breaks the looks of a wall)
This one looks great:
Cemoto
Well-known member
Doug,
Everything about your build is striking! That room will make a great library.
Fantastic.
Glad you are getting 'er all buttoned up. We have snow on the ground here in MA.
Merry Christmas!
Regards,
.
There's something pretty awesome about a shell becoming a shelter. Heat, water and electricity turn a box into something that -- like you say -- is alive.
Congratulations on creating something so incredible from an idea in your head.
Congratulations on creating something so incredible from an idea in your head.
vegar
Well-known member
Fantastic windows. That will be a great place to relax with a good book in the winter
xjjeepman
Well-known member
Place is amazing. Its coming along beautifully.
vr4joe
Well-known member
This project is really shaping up!
I know you were kidding about using PVC for your compressor air lines, but i think you ought to consider this better alternative to standard black pipe:
Rapid Air's hand-flexible Maxline tubing. Advantages include
- a blend of HDPE and aluminum multilayer tubing
- direct burial, on wall and in wall tubing applications
- maintains shape after bending by hand
- tubing size ½", ¾", 1" ID
- 175 psi working pressure
- install vid:
here's a vid of Tom from Tom's Turbo Garage installing this stuff:
If the more-pro look of rigid straight pipe is what you're looking for, use fastpipe instead. Here's a video of a typical fastpipe install:
comparison of different pipe options: http://www.rapidairproducts.com/choose.asp
Rapid Air's hand-flexible Maxline tubing. Advantages include
- a blend of HDPE and aluminum multilayer tubing
- direct burial, on wall and in wall tubing applications
- maintains shape after bending by hand
- tubing size ½", ¾", 1" ID
- 175 psi working pressure
- install vid:
here's a vid of Tom from Tom's Turbo Garage installing this stuff:
If the more-pro look of rigid straight pipe is what you're looking for, use fastpipe instead. Here's a video of a typical fastpipe install:
comparison of different pipe options: http://www.rapidairproducts.com/choose.asp
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SiGmA_X
Well-known member
Wow, that looks so amazing!! Great work, you must be so happy to have it nearly livable!
rmmiller
Well-known member
I'm a freak for little details (like door hinges above).
IMO you should put your thermostat in a recess in your walls (for the non-concrete walls of course)... or at least use a very modern looking thermostat (still even modern IMO it breaks the looks of a wall)
This one looks great:
I love the old school digital clock! I remember the first "digital" alarm clock I had, as the time changed the numbers just flipped down.
FarmerPete
Well-known member
****. After reading almost 2000 posts, I've finally caught up to real time. I'm not going to echo what you've already heard a thousand times. I will say that I feel I know a ton more about concrete than I did a week ago. A week ago, I had never heard of ICF homes before. Today, I doubt I would build a house in anything other than ICF. I'm looking forward to seeing your final product. How cool will this post be to see a picture of the blank slate you started with, the mock model, the basic plans, finished outside pics, and some nice pictures of some of the inside completed and decorated.
For the geothermal naysayers, the payback on a system all depends on the cost for installation and the cost of the alternative. If you live in a place with Natural Gas, it's 99% certain that you wont save a dime with geothermal. When compared to heating oil or propane, it's a very compelling argument. Having said all of that, in this instance, the major costs have already been expended. The wells have been drilled and the majority of the install costs have already been spent. There is no way that an air heat pump will be a better value when you consider the sunk costs that's been spent. I'm not sure on the propane/electric costs in Maine, but I'm fairly certain that you could come up with a general BTU propane vs BTU geothermal breakdown that would show you how many BTUs you'd need to break even.
On a completely different note, I wonder if many people know how going with ICF changes the build price of a house vs stick built. I'm sure there are many variables, but I imagine there has to be a good % or rough ballpark per sq ft difference. I'm not planning on moving anytime in the near future, but some day I'd like to move out of the city a little bit and build a nice custom home on some real land. I don't suppose your crew is willing to commute to Michigan for a job building a house?
For the geothermal naysayers, the payback on a system all depends on the cost for installation and the cost of the alternative. If you live in a place with Natural Gas, it's 99% certain that you wont save a dime with geothermal. When compared to heating oil or propane, it's a very compelling argument. Having said all of that, in this instance, the major costs have already been expended. The wells have been drilled and the majority of the install costs have already been spent. There is no way that an air heat pump will be a better value when you consider the sunk costs that's been spent. I'm not sure on the propane/electric costs in Maine, but I'm fairly certain that you could come up with a general BTU propane vs BTU geothermal breakdown that would show you how many BTUs you'd need to break even.
On a completely different note, I wonder if many people know how going with ICF changes the build price of a house vs stick built. I'm sure there are many variables, but I imagine there has to be a good % or rough ballpark per sq ft difference. I'm not planning on moving anytime in the near future, but some day I'd like to move out of the city a little bit and build a nice custom home on some real land. I don't suppose your crew is willing to commute to Michigan for a job building a house?
the_art_of_design
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 19
Turn your head and you have a forest scene to enjoy.
Might not be obvious from the pictures but it really is kind of striking. This space will remain essentially open but large 'bookcases' will separate it into a reading room for my wife and an exercise area.
We're going to restore a little potbelly stove that has been in the family and install it in the reading area. It will be a nice place to curl up with a book in front of a fire and watch the Maine winter all around you. Kinda cool, huh?
We'll hopefully finish up the window install this week and the well company is coming to drop the permanent pump and get the domestic water on line. Next up after that is electrical and plumbing rough in.
That's all for now. The heat is slowly coming up but it's going to take a few days for that little boiler to overcome several millions pounds of frozen concrete.
It's been awhile since I caught up on your progress and like the many before me have said, you're doing a fantastic job. The pride you must be experiencing is well worth the long days and stressful nights I'm sure!
The picture above caught my attention. While this will be great place to relax and watch the world go by, I can't help but think one small detail could help make it perfect.
Have you considered installing a 'green roof' over the low roof areas you look out onto from your second floor living spaces?
You have the insulation and water tight membrane in place, your concrete should be able to support any additional dead/live loads. The stone ballast would be replaced with a few propitiatory 'green roof system' layers (root barrier, drainage layer, etc) that instal on top of the cap sheet and the ballast would be the growing medium (~4"). Plant away with drought resistant grasses, sedums, flowers and even herbs & vegetables!
This would not only reduce the reflectivity of the white stones onto your glazing, it will also provide more insulating value in all seasons as well as severely slowing the demand on your storm water system by retaining the moisture for the plantings.
Your view would become seamless from window to nature.
Again, many praises for the attention to detail and documentation. You're building a structure that will stand the test of time and last several hundreds of years for generations to enjoy.
It's roughly 8-10% more on a regular house. But it really depends on design and you need a crew that knows ICF well.
ICF is great mainly for the strength and sound/vibrations protection. It has many advantages like not a great food for termites and such! But in terms of insulation only it's not as good as some advanced stick techniques or SIP especially for cold regions.
Anyway personally I would love to build my house in ICF just for the sound insulation and long time strength.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
slimpickins
Well-known member
Wow! I've read this thread over the past several days and the scale of this project is simply amazing!!!
I can't imagine all of the things that you have to plan ahead for in a build like this. I have a hard enough time with the "domino effect" (as I call it) in regular construction, where you have to do this before that, and you have to know where this is going to end up, so that won't be in the way. etc. etc. etc. The planning you have to have done in making this project happen, blows my mind!
This is an incredible thread, and you are an amazing teacher! I've been thinking about building a raised concrete deck with in-floor heating and been agonizing over whether I could pull it off. After seeing you pour the concrete in this build, it has taken a lot of the fear of the unknown out of my plans.
Thank you very much SIR!!! for sharing your project and your knowledge!!!
One comment ... somewhere along the way someone mentioned it would be neat to see a time lapse of the build. I just discovered this neat little toy:
View media item 36192
Its a camera timer and will automatically shoot a picture in intervals from 1 sec to 100 hrs. Cost is about $35 at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003Y35VJA/?tag=atomicindus08-20
I ordered one last week and haven't received it yet but I'm looking forward to trying on my next project.
Awesome project!
I can't imagine all of the things that you have to plan ahead for in a build like this. I have a hard enough time with the "domino effect" (as I call it) in regular construction, where you have to do this before that, and you have to know where this is going to end up, so that won't be in the way. etc. etc. etc. The planning you have to have done in making this project happen, blows my mind!
This is an incredible thread, and you are an amazing teacher! I've been thinking about building a raised concrete deck with in-floor heating and been agonizing over whether I could pull it off. After seeing you pour the concrete in this build, it has taken a lot of the fear of the unknown out of my plans.
Thank you very much SIR!!! for sharing your project and your knowledge!!!
One comment ... somewhere along the way someone mentioned it would be neat to see a time lapse of the build. I just discovered this neat little toy:
View media item 36192
Its a camera timer and will automatically shoot a picture in intervals from 1 sec to 100 hrs. Cost is about $35 at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003Y35VJA/?tag=atomicindus08-20
I ordered one last week and haven't received it yet but I'm looking forward to trying on my next project.
Awesome project!
wssix99
Well-known member
For a one story house, this is possible and I've seen this number quoted before. For the 4 story ICF house I am building, the costs are much higher. We are at least at a 35% premium. (I'm afraid to calculate the true value... In this situation, you have to want the soft benefits, comfort, strength, and vibration resistance of the technology.) As you go up, you need more steel and thicker walls at the base, some of the bracing is more challenging up high, there are more lifts = more trips for the pumper, and attaching floors to the ICF walls can also get pricey.
It's great for cold regions! It gives the same resistance to movement of heat in the winter as the summer. It may be more economical for areas where cooling costs are higher than heating costs, but heating costs are still significant in cold areas.
Cemoto
Well-known member
One really good advantage is that it is bulletproof!
JakeKohl
Well-known member
FarmerPete
Well-known member
One really good advantage is that it is bulletproof!
That's certainly important to me. If I spend all that time/money building a house, it is certainly going to be zombie/bandit proof. I need to be able to take on at least a dozen armed men without having any issues. I'll just have to find a builder who doesn't flinch when he sees pictures of cauldrons labeled, "Hot Oil Dispenser" or "Pit of rotating knives" on the blueprints.
wssix99
Well-known member
True - for real. Benefit #1832 of building a concrete house.
My wife actually built a number of ICF houses in the City, years ago, where this was an actual selling point. People would come by and shoot out the windows for fun while the house was under construction...
We also lived in one of these neighborhoods (briefly) and returned home from one New Years Eve to find a bullet hole below our bedroom window. (That one was from the locals shooting in the air at midnight... and is why we used to always leave town for that holiday.)
We've been making steady progress since my last update though much of it doesn't lend itself to interesting photographs. The details I might have shared are buried under a foot of fresh snow.
The metalworking crew has completed all of the flashing and gutters. They did a fantastic job but the only pic I could find was a door pan. This is the detail we used under all the doors and windows to ensure water didn't find its way underneath.
The window crew has also made steady progress. The windows in the connector and guest bedroom are in;
As are the kitchen/office windows less the terrace door
The water closet windows are in
The first of the terrace doors are in as well. I'm so impressed with the quality of the Arcadia doors. These things swing like they are on ball bearings and click into place like a refrigerator door. When you throw the deadbolt, it locks in four locations.
Here's a shot of the same door from the outside;
The cold winter sun was setting while I was taking pics so I grabbed this shot.
Here's the window in the upper front of the hall leading to the guest bedroom.
Someone asked about the caulk joints. I tried to take a pic of the joint between a couple window units and the sheet metal wrap we installed over the LvL's. The color difference is exaggerated by the flash but you can see that the caulk joint looks pretty good.
We still have a half dozen openings to fill in. In the meantime, we installed some temp covers. Will be glad to see these gone.
I also snapped a pic of the chase that allows ductwork, vents, etc to run vertically from the basement to the roof.
Finally for those who think I might really be some kind of wealthy super villain, let me share a photo of my humble abode complete with a stack of cheap plastic lawn chairs I haven't bothered to put away.
Now that we've settled that question once and for all.....
The metalworking crew has completed all of the flashing and gutters. They did a fantastic job but the only pic I could find was a door pan. This is the detail we used under all the doors and windows to ensure water didn't find its way underneath.
The window crew has also made steady progress. The windows in the connector and guest bedroom are in;
As are the kitchen/office windows less the terrace door
The water closet windows are in
The first of the terrace doors are in as well. I'm so impressed with the quality of the Arcadia doors. These things swing like they are on ball bearings and click into place like a refrigerator door. When you throw the deadbolt, it locks in four locations.
Here's a shot of the same door from the outside;
The cold winter sun was setting while I was taking pics so I grabbed this shot.
Here's the window in the upper front of the hall leading to the guest bedroom.
Someone asked about the caulk joints. I tried to take a pic of the joint between a couple window units and the sheet metal wrap we installed over the LvL's. The color difference is exaggerated by the flash but you can see that the caulk joint looks pretty good.
We still have a half dozen openings to fill in. In the meantime, we installed some temp covers. Will be glad to see these gone.
I also snapped a pic of the chase that allows ductwork, vents, etc to run vertically from the basement to the roof.
Finally for those who think I might really be some kind of wealthy super villain, let me share a photo of my humble abode complete with a stack of cheap plastic lawn chairs I haven't bothered to put away.
Now that we've settled that question once and for all.....
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randomtwinkie
Well-known member
Thanks for putting in all the work to chronicle this adventure!
Thanks a lot BeachBoy. My wife checked the thread at work and immediately forwarded every one of your links to me via email. There goes the interior door budget. Ever heard of a PM??
Alright, that's it! your banned from this thread, BeachBoy
It's here too. Merry Christmas to you too Cemoto.
Thanks for the links aap71. The shop fit out is a ways off but I'll file this info away for future consideration. Why do you think I was kidding about PVC.......maybe I'll start a thread.
A green roof is a great feature. We would have liked to do one but it introduced a level of cost and complexity we weren't able to undertake. I suppose it's never too late.
Thanks slimpickins. I'm humbled by your comments but am very pleased I've been able to take some of the mystery out of building with concrete. Please feel free to reach out if I can be of assistance when you are ready to tackle your project.
Thanks for the tip on the time lapse camera. If I'd had one of these and a drone, we'd really have something.
I thought I had thought of everything but clearly my defensive systems are lacking..........at least the ones I've told you about. Definitely getting a pit of rotating knives though. Gonna put it in one of the tunnels.
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gordyy
Well-known member
I love the skirting job on the 5th wheel LOL
Believe it or not there are people moving up a couple hundred miles NW of me in the oil fields that set them up like that and are shocked when it gets destroyed in the first wind
Great details on one of my all time favorite builds
reminds me of one that was done during the 80s recession by a fellow in my home town
He owned a redimix plant and a construction company He always said he needed a new house but it was really just to keep his men working for a year or so, most of his crew had over 20 years on the job.
Its always great to see people that know how to do their job build something, and use their product of choice or expertise to do it with.
Believe it or not there are people moving up a couple hundred miles NW of me in the oil fields that set them up like that and are shocked when it gets destroyed in the first wind
Great details on one of my all time favorite builds
reminds me of one that was done during the 80s recession by a fellow in my home town
He owned a redimix plant and a construction company He always said he needed a new house but it was really just to keep his men working for a year or so, most of his crew had over 20 years on the job.
Its always great to see people that know how to do their job build something, and use their product of choice or expertise to do it with.
wssix99
Well-known member
Thanks for posting. The windows we are putting in are shaping up very similarly and our joints and caulk joints are almost identical. (Same color and everything.) Seeing your posts really helps put us at ease about what we are doing and are about to encounter.
You made a great call with your metalworking crew. There is a ton of work in the flashing and messing it up is really expensive! We did not have the same foresight and our window install is going very slowly as a result... and I have a foot of snow in my living room.
I feel your pain on the snow and cold. I almost went in search of a Tauntaun this weekend so I could slice its belly open with my light saber and crawl inside.
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
Is the glass making any difference to the internal temperature or are there still too many openings?
It's looking really really good though. Keep up the good work and keep the updates coming please.
It's looking really really good though. Keep up the good work and keep the updates coming please.
Thanks a lot BeachBoy. My wife checked the thread at work and immediately forwarded every one of your links to me via email. There goes the interior door budget. Ever heard of a PM??
Alright, that's it! your banned from this thread, BeachBoy
Well you need to decide where to put the $, I'm sure the whole house build is around compromises so I'm just giving more options
To clean even more a door's look you can have magnetic mortise box which eliminates the lip strike. You can check a video here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsuw7a_the-magnetic-mortise-box-by-bartels_tech
Also, the temp control panel I have posted seems to not exist anymore so I just saved you some $!
FarmerPete
Well-known member
Just a thought, but could you use one of those garage tent things with your trailer? I'm sure you'd have to find a way to vent it, but it seems like it would kill any wind going over the camper. Just a thought.