The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
W_A_Watson_II
Well-known member
I'd be concerned of any flex in a cantilever tread woud likely cause excessive forces can likely cause the glass to eventually fail.
gordyy
Well-known member
I agree with TwoBytes on that clear panel bolted to the sides on your hanging threads that would make it even more awesome! But would probably be sleeping on the floor with Bib's after too much wine and liquor
Looking so good
I think I have said it before nothing better to see than a professional doing the most with his profession even if it makes no economic sense just to prove HE CAN great job!!
Looking so good
I think I have said it before nothing better to see than a professional doing the most with his profession even if it makes no economic sense just to prove HE CAN great job!!
Tyberius
Well-known member
This is a pretty good look at the floating stairs with steel
Their configurator shows a glass railing at $118 per linear foot
Here's look at a glass railing, but the stair is not cantilevered
Wow, just Wow .... I joined this forum when I found your thread about 6 months ago and have enjoyed seeing and reading the updates/progress. I log on once a day to see if you've posted any updates (and check out the half dozen other threads of interest) ... Thanks very much for taking the time to post and explain the aspects of the construction, I've learned a lot !
That said, I thought I'd pass along the following link to a railing / standoff fabricator that I used for my stair project (not as astounding as yours) ... I'm in no way affiliated with this company ... just passing along the info. They manufacture posts and standoffs.
http://www.mogg.ca/
Thanks again, Andrew
That said, I thought I'd pass along the following link to a railing / standoff fabricator that I used for my stair project (not as astounding as yours) ... I'm in no way affiliated with this company ... just passing along the info. They manufacture posts and standoffs.
http://www.mogg.ca/
Thanks again, Andrew
Disclaimers:
1. This is one of THE COOLEST houses I have EVER seen.
2. (...and I've built/rebuilt/remodeled a few of them.)
3. You and your crew's skills are OUT-freaking-STANDING!
However...
I disagree with anyone telling you to attach ANYTHING to the cantilevered stairs. To do so would only detract from the "magic."
The handrail, which is obviously required by building code, should (in my humble opinion) be a singular structure, not touching the stairs, but only attached to the two floors.
My personal opinion would be a black anodized aluminum framework with natural oak balusters. ...just for contrast. (Glass is cool, but it's already surrounding you...)
At first glance, it's just like any other stairway. Then, the realization of the "unsupported end" and "What the f...?"
1. This is one of THE COOLEST houses I have EVER seen.
2. (...and I've built/rebuilt/remodeled a few of them.)
3. You and your crew's skills are OUT-freaking-STANDING!
However...
I disagree with anyone telling you to attach ANYTHING to the cantilevered stairs. To do so would only detract from the "magic."
The handrail, which is obviously required by building code, should (in my humble opinion) be a singular structure, not touching the stairs, but only attached to the two floors.
My personal opinion would be a black anodized aluminum framework with natural oak balusters. ...just for contrast. (Glass is cool, but it's already surrounding you...)
At first glance, it's just like any other stairway. Then, the realization of the "unsupported end" and "What the f...?"
tacostand
Well-known member
The flip side of this, Will, and what I've been thinking about for the stair is that if the glass panels thickness is substantial enough they could impose an unwanted (live and dead) load right out there on the far end of the cantilever of Doug's treads.
I've been thinking about the 2 posts and no connection to the treads as well, dimarra.
Doug, what I was picturing (just tossing my slip in the idea box) was an ornamental steel/iron rail that is 'organic' with the references being either Art Nouveau architecture or the tree branch railings you occasionally see in Fine Homebuilding.
My thinking was an organic handrail like that (without knowing anything about your furnishings/interior design/etc) could be an interesting way to relate to the outdoors that your glass will so prominently highlight. The box structure of your buildings clearly delineate the inside from the outside... and then something like this finds its way inside.
Whichever way you go, thanks again for letting all of the rest of us come along for the ride.
This thread and your build really are outstanding.
Dave
stephan191
Active member
Awesome work right there! Love the stairs...how about a single panel of glas for each stair? Not sure if it's workable to code, but a glasmanufacturer should be able to advice you on that...
Jimbo..
Well-known member
Love the stairs and the discussion about the railing options. Here's my $0.02...
A buddy of mine has stairs with a glass railing similar to some of the photos posted above. They look very modern and clean, but I find them to be just about the worst stair railing I have ever used. The glass does not provide a very comfortable handhold. It is too narrow and severe and just seems flimsy and dangerous, like it's going to break. Climbing them is a slow and vertiginous process, and that is coming from someone who loves modern design and has no issue with heights. If you like the glass solution, my advice would be to try and find some to test-drive.
Here are my buddy's stairs...
A buddy of mine has stairs with a glass railing similar to some of the photos posted above. They look very modern and clean, but I find them to be just about the worst stair railing I have ever used. The glass does not provide a very comfortable handhold. It is too narrow and severe and just seems flimsy and dangerous, like it's going to break. Climbing them is a slow and vertiginous process, and that is coming from someone who loves modern design and has no issue with heights. If you like the glass solution, my advice would be to try and find some to test-drive.
Here are my buddy's stairs...
JbTech
Well-known member
Луноход;3939770 said:
2nd post, I would say something in between "simmer down" and "piss off".
He's got quite a bit on his plate. He'll get around to it.
Kudos for the progress!
JakeKohl
Well-known member
These have an interesting look but if I know LLWillysfan like I think I do through his incredible sharing of this construction project, those rails take too much attention away from the focal point - which should be the floating concrete. The horizontal balusters in a dark color that OHSCrifle posted would be pretty cool. I'm not sure I am a fan of the way the steel is formed on the ends of these rails but I like the dark, muted, framing of this railing. Capped off with a stained wood hand rail like this gives something warm and inviting to the stairs without overwhelming the appearance.
Tyberius
Well-known member
These have an interesting look but if I know LLWillysfan like I think I do through his incredible sharing of this construction project, those rails take too much attention away from the focal point - which should be the floating concrete. The horizontal balusters in a dark color that OHSCrifle posted would be pretty cool. I'm not sure I am a fan of the way the steel is formed on the ends of these rails but I like the dark, muted, framing of this railing. Capped off with a stained wood hand rail like this gives something warm and inviting to the stairs without overwhelming the appearance.
I don't think the pics I posted were the final solution, but someone had mentioned the site they were on, so I did a bit of legwork.
I agree with the poster above that a plain glass railing will be awkward to use.
For me, I would like to see a railing that is not attached to the stair treads at all. That is, a railing that is attached to the lower floor and upper floor only with a set post and baluster going almost to the stair tread, but still clearly unattached to the tread.
jriltex
Member
Have you considered suspending the handrails from the ceiling rather than attaching to the stairs to retain their independence? It seems the whole point here was to highlight the stairs being independent of any support structures.
The challenge is that a stair needs a guard rail, not just a handrail. The guard rail keeps you from falling through..
I wouldn't discount the glass rail. You might even consider a glass wall, from floor to floor above. That way you can see this awesome stair, and mount a handrail on the glass wall. Glass wall would be totally independent of the stair, say by 1.5".
I wouldn't discount the glass rail. You might even consider a glass wall, from floor to floor above. That way you can see this awesome stair, and mount a handrail on the glass wall. Glass wall would be totally independent of the stair, say by 1.5".
My unworthy .02 pesos!
If you don't have hyperactive crazy little kids "around" my vote would be for a sleek handrail on the wall and no guard rail.
Guard rails kill the cantilever stairs. I know that because I have been designing mine and my wife automatically said, "will you be installing such high tech invisible guardrail technology?"
I took the sarcasm
If you don't have hyperactive crazy little kids "around" my vote would be for a sleek handrail on the wall and no guard rail.
Guard rails kill the cantilever stairs. I know that because I have been designing mine and my wife automatically said, "will you be installing such high tech invisible guardrail technology?"
I took the sarcasm
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I would look at a post on each end of the stairs connected by a stainless steel bar for a rail, then suspend glass from the bar to prevent kids from falling off the stairs, likely it is required anyhow, but it would give a nice clear view of the suspended treads, be safe, and somewhat inexpensive.
Alternatively, the same posts and bar, with stainless cables running between the posts for safety (probably the cheapest solution that is legal and looks good).
Alternatively, the same posts and bar, with stainless cables running between the posts for safety (probably the cheapest solution that is legal and looks good).
I think a glass wall would be another great idea.
Wow, I can't believe I've reached the end. Spent the better part of quite a few hours reading this over the last few days. Amazing, simply amazing. I hoped when I got to the end it would be done but I guess I'm along for the ride the rest of the way now.
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
hippie2cams
Well-known member
I never come to this thread without being totally amazed by the artistry that I am seeing performed in this construction project. You are not just a cement contractor but a true artist in the way you work out each and every part of the job. When this project is done, they will want to take it apart and move it to some art studio for world wide display. Thank you for sharing your build and your talent with us on the journal
And the glass wall needn't extend all the way to the bottom of the stair (creating a weird glass tornado shelter under the stair).. The guard rail only is required where the drop off exceeds 30". Usually the lowest 3-4 treads aren't 30" above the floor so those don't need a guard.. But the handrail still has to go all the way to the bottom.
If this isn't painting a clear picture, I will add a sketch in the morning...
landroversforever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
- Messages
- 86
Looking great, love the cantilevered stairs! Fascinating to see all the form work for it too.
Quick concrete question for you though... whats a rough ball-park figure for the time it takes concrete to dry/cure? My parents are extending the utility room into the garage and the garage floor level has been raised to match the rest of the house with about 6" of concrete.
Quick concrete question for you though... whats a rough ball-park figure for the time it takes concrete to dry/cure? My parents are extending the utility room into the garage and the garage floor level has been raised to match the rest of the house with about 6" of concrete.
Tyberius
Well-known member
Who did the concrete?
landroversforever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
- Messages
- 86
The builder.
cderalow
Well-known member
it's generally considered cured to about 70% of compressive strength after 7 days moist curing time, but that's variable upon temperature
normally it reaches its max after 90 days or so
I think it is about 95-98% at 28 days. Then it cures for years and years after that. Been told 50 years or so but not sure.
The OP - LLWillysfan - Builder
Camp332
Member
This is major league right here! Amazing work
Tyberius
Well-known member
Probably not for landroversforever though.
Having stripped the aprons, we're finally able to do some rough grading. I don't want the frost lifting them so I laid some rigid insulation 4' out in all directions.
The rigid will retain the natural heat from the ground and keep the frost out.
We also stripped the hearth and mantel. We still need to clean up all the concrete but it's looking pretty good.
We also had some actual garage related progress - the garage doors are in!
They are manufactured by Raynor and consist of anodized aluminum frames with insulated glass panels. The work shop door is 9' wide;
The garage is serviced by an 18' door;
They look as good from inside;
The photos really don't do the doors justice - they are really beautiful. The glass looks mirrored but they are just tinted grey to match the rest of the glass in the house.
As I mentioned in a prior post, we converted the 9' door to a sliding configuration while maintaining the appearance of a overhead door.
If you recall, overhead door tracks would have conflicted with the bridge crane,lift and skylight. My overhead door company ordered some high strength hardware and engineered a custom set up. I'll post some details of the install when I get a chance to get some pics.
The glass paneled doors really let in some much needed natural light. The work shop really is mostly underground after all.
Here's a shot you might get a kick out of. We're playing around with some accent lighting at the cantilevered stairs. Here's a shot of lighting from below. We'd probably do three of these lights.
We've also finished up most of the odds and ends of metal framing. Here's a shot of the stairs to the second floor of the house that I modified to eliminate the sloped ceiling. Hopefully you can see what we are trying to achieve. It's interesting to note that this is a detail that consumed many hours in the planning and execution and yet when it's done, no one will ever know it's exists.
Finally please allow me to share a spring ritual that means all the more for the rough winter we just endured. The docks are in. We put them in in the pouring rain Saturday morning.
There'a actually a lot going on right now. Hopefully we're generating some momentum to push this thing through to completion. It's about time! In case you didn't notice, we recently passed the 2 year anniversary of our start. Sheesh!
The rigid will retain the natural heat from the ground and keep the frost out.
We also stripped the hearth and mantel. We still need to clean up all the concrete but it's looking pretty good.
We also had some actual garage related progress - the garage doors are in!
They are manufactured by Raynor and consist of anodized aluminum frames with insulated glass panels. The work shop door is 9' wide;
The garage is serviced by an 18' door;
They look as good from inside;
The photos really don't do the doors justice - they are really beautiful. The glass looks mirrored but they are just tinted grey to match the rest of the glass in the house.
As I mentioned in a prior post, we converted the 9' door to a sliding configuration while maintaining the appearance of a overhead door.
If you recall, overhead door tracks would have conflicted with the bridge crane,lift and skylight. My overhead door company ordered some high strength hardware and engineered a custom set up. I'll post some details of the install when I get a chance to get some pics.
The glass paneled doors really let in some much needed natural light. The work shop really is mostly underground after all.
Here's a shot you might get a kick out of. We're playing around with some accent lighting at the cantilevered stairs. Here's a shot of lighting from below. We'd probably do three of these lights.
We've also finished up most of the odds and ends of metal framing. Here's a shot of the stairs to the second floor of the house that I modified to eliminate the sloped ceiling. Hopefully you can see what we are trying to achieve. It's interesting to note that this is a detail that consumed many hours in the planning and execution and yet when it's done, no one will ever know it's exists.
Finally please allow me to share a spring ritual that means all the more for the rough winter we just endured. The docks are in. We put them in in the pouring rain Saturday morning.
There'a actually a lot going on right now. Hopefully we're generating some momentum to push this thing through to completion. It's about time! In case you didn't notice, we recently passed the 2 year anniversary of our start. Sheesh!
Last edited:
JordonMusser
Well-known member
wow!
HOTFR8
Banned
Nice to see the doors and other things working out like that. I bet it is great to progress out of the winter and not be so cold.