The Craftsman debacle

[jjjrmx5]

Some of the country of origin nerds like to buy things from first world countries or at least developed countires. That often means higher quality and it increases the chances that the workers were paid fair wages and aren't subject to human rights abuses.

And, for a variety of quality, political, economic and human rights reasons, China is to be avoided if possible by many country of origin nerds.

If you were up on the COO nerdery on this forum you'd realize that many of us don't really mind buying Taiwanese products. They're often higher quality than Chinese products and Taiwan doesn't have the same economic, human rights and political issues that China has.

I don't have to be a COO nerd.


Menards is 60 miles and 90 minutes away.
Nope. Not an option.


As for Knipex?
Go cheap and leave my Knipex alone.

Yeah! More for me.

Wait.

Well--jefmoss26 gets his Amazon list $41 German made Knipex cable shears for $18.18 from me this week. Thank you Lowes and your ability to sell good stuff cheap and Asian sourced unknowns for high $$$>

Bravo!!!!!

No hate on my end.

Just no long term vision by ANY "product planners" from most tool companies.

By all? No.

By most?
Yes.


****. Pilage. Move on.
The tool mfgr. creedo to me.

 

[SMKS]

Some of the country of origin nerds like to buy things from first world countries or at least developed countires. That often means higher quality and it increases the chances that the workers were paid fair wages and aren't subject to human rights abuses.

And, for a variety of quality, political, economic and human rights reasons, China is to be avoided if possible by many country of origin nerds.

If you were up on the COO nerdery on this forum you'd realize that many of us don't really mind buying Taiwanese products. They're often higher quality than Chinese products and Taiwan doesn't have the same economic, human rights and political issues that China has.

I don't have to be a COO nerd.


Menards is 60 miles and 90 minutes away.
Nope. Not an option.

I was responding to another member asking a general COO question. The post you quoted of mine made no reference to Menards. I don't know why you're making this response.

I previously recommended Menards as just one option. There are many others I'm sure you do have access to, if you care to seek out USA or first-world items.

 

[zkling]

Farm & Fleet has Allen USA as well.

Farm & Fleet, ha ha that takes me back. I wish we had that down here. My grandparents are in central IL and talk about Farm & Fleet all the time.

We have a semi knockoff down here called Tractor Supply. I don't think they sell 1 USA made tool. I don't go there often and there is a reason for that.

Menards is 60 miles and 90 minutes away.
Nope. Not an option.

Really? You know they just opened one, like this past week, over by GE? I haven't been there yet as I live pretty close to the other one. I think it even has a full lumberyard and all, right next to walmart of course.

 

[cburnscrx]

Menards may be around, but what they sell in 2 years much less 6, I dunno.

Ace hdwre is longest lasting go-to that I know that actually will stock USA stuff as well as order you in what you need.
But they can be pricey.

I've been through Builder's Square, HQ/Home Quarters, Contractor's Warehouse and another half dozen adnauseum. All gonzo. Done. Sold out.


There is NO guaranteed local retailer that can guarantee longevity. None.

THAT, I assure you.

Menards and TSC may work well in rural locations , but in high competition urban areas, likely not so much.

Caveot Emptor.

There's no guaranteed anything when it comes to retail, but Menards is more likely to expand to be a national chain than fold.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/john-menard-jr-1/

And I don't know where your Menards are located, but indy's a pretty urban area and does quite well here.

 

[Deadhead]

C'mon you guys - there are MUCH larger issues at play. Do some reading on this forum and others, as well as on sites dedicated to Made In America. Equating buying Knipex pliers Made in Germany to US tool companies having their stuff made in China is not the same issue.

Even as a Canadian I know how important it is to support US-made products.

I get what you are saying in that it's not the same issue. Trust me, I spent many years of my life in manufacturing and got tired of seeing things I used to produce here in the states, is now being made overseas but still being sold at made in USA prices. My point was that none of the things I mentioned are made in the USA, But it's accepted to own some of them and not the other. Therefore it truly has become an issue about quality of the global market.
I was simply saying that's why I don't understand some folks issue about COO.

 

[Moose97]

I see where your coming from, and have heard it before (buying american is important). i dont fully understand, but i can see the pride in owning all american tools or just the overall interest and love for tools which i can appreciate. i know your first post said you arnt trying to stir anything up so i apologize if my post was a little emotional. if you really want american and will pay a little more than craftsman i agree with people saying sk is good.



im saying there are more segments than three to take advantage as i am. but i originally thought the original poster was more price conscious then he actually is.



im not starting a debate but i was just saying i dont get why people care so much. i used an example of a guy doing work with chinese tools. and i have no problem with chinese, taiwan, french, german, american, etc. so long as they work and will do the job i intend with what i feel to be a good value for my dollar.

knipex are actually some of my favorite as in quality and design and i would not consider them budget.

no matter how much you care it doesnt matter towards what companies will do. it IS business. it would be against good business(as in business's goal is to increase shareholders wealth) to not do what they are doing. they would be steering towards bad business unless they have created brand loyalty (which is hard to do, and as some say on here is drinking kool aid) such as snap on. snap on has such high brand loyalty that bluepoint is like 90% taiwan now and no one seems to care.

there is no larger issue as there is no solution other than to stop buying that companies product. again i mean no debate i just originally thought the original poster was more budget oriented and i dont understand the concept of american only.

Well, price does play a role in my buying decisions. It's not the only factor but it is one of them. I will pay a little more for American made but not 10 times more. I just can't afford to do that. I do the work on my families vehicles because it's more economical than paying someone else to do it (and I really enjoy it). So, I was considering all three factors. I live in a small town in Texas. It's about a 20 minute drive to a town with big box stores, large chain grocers and the like. If I can avoid that minimum one hour round trip (20 min there, 20 min back, 20 minutes actually getting what you came for) I will pay a little more at our local grocer or feed store but I'm not going to pay double...or triple. Price, convenience, and overall selection were all factors. It appears that there is a viable alternative (though not exactly the same) with SK and maybe a couple of others. Looks like shopping around for the best deals is a requirement if American made is really important to you. Thanks!

 

[1982fxr]

Harry Epstein's has awesome prices on a lot of USA made tools like Wilde, Pratt and Reed, etc.

And just because Sears stopped contracting with US companies doesn't mean those companies stopped making tools. You have to do a little research, but the same tools are still out there---just with different names on the handles

 

[ez-duzit]

...If my desire was to buy American made only, what tool brand would be comparable to Craftsman as far as price, ease of purchase and return, and overall large scale selection (you can basically get it all)?...

The brand you should be buying is called "used" and includes Craftsman. There is an infinite supply of US-made tools available in the secondary markets. Ease of purchase is a few mouse clicks on the net. You can get anything you want, an unlimited selection.

 

[DekeT]

Menards offers lots of USA-made hand tools under their Masterforce house brand. They're pretty well priced, especially when on sale.

EDIT - I realize some members won't have access to Menards, but it's just another option to add to the list.

None of their pliers are USA. The screw, socket, torx drivers are still USA.

 

[byoungblood]

Name 2 !

The Made in America ones I have found are a LOT more expensive than Craftsman.

Craftsman Industrial is intriguing. Made in America, but NOT carried by Sears (at least in general), so the warranty is through your retailer and the prices are a lot more than the standard Craftsman brand.

11 pc set of Wright metric wrenches hovers around $100 on Amazon. It is $50-60 more than the non-sale price on a set of Chinese Craftsman wrenches.

For a tool that will last your lifetime, is that really too much more money to spend?

 

[oilfieldtrash4]

11 pc set of Wright metric wrenches hovers around $100 on Amazon. It is $50-60 more than the non-sale price on a set of Chinese Craftsman wrenches.

For a tool that will last your lifetime, is that really too much more money to spend?

Exactly. And usually a set of wrenches is the first thing you grab when you start working on a car.

 

[cburnscrx]

11 pc set of Wright metric wrenches hovers around $100 on Amazon. It is $50-60 more than the non-sale price on a set of Chinese Craftsman wrenches.

For a tool that will last your lifetime, is that really too much more money to spend?

To me? Yes, it is too much money. Maybe I am just not as well off as some of the members on here, but doubling the price of something is a significant cost increase. Also, there are the sales at Sears driving down the prices even cheaper. I think I've paid full price for very little at Sears. In addtion the Kobalt set at Lowes is $39.99 everyday, so that's a $60 difference, and that too is pretty significant to me. I know it ***** that people aren't willing to pay, but such is life. I buy as much USA Craftsman while I can, when I can. Unfortunately that time is running short.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Exactly. And usually a set of wrenches is the first thing you grab when you start working on a car.

...or ratchet and sockets .. but same idea applies. Heck, look at the prices of used USA tools that have been beat on. They took every bit of a beating and still their value rose with inflation. I'd personally rather buy a used tool that will last my lifetime than a new imported tool that I have to consider warranty options before I ever use it.

 

[treimers]

Some folks have mentioned COO nerds as being
aimed towards defeating China's record on human rights, pay, etc.

I'd add this in:

"business's goal is to increase shareholders wealth"

That's one reason many more of us are angry.

It should not be true that a businesses first goal should be to make it's shareholders wealthy
That is what is happening -- nowadays,
if anything is perceived to be a quick shareholder profit for the immediate business quarter, the company jumps on it, never mind paying the piper down the road.
US jobs, wages, quality, reputation, every bit of that
comes dead last after paying out large stockholders in the coming business quarter.

Once upon a time, back in the mid-70s and before, the idea was
- make a good high quality product
- sell it at a competitive price so that most of the population could afford to buy and use your product.
- provide good wages to highly skilled quality workers
- motivate workers to be loyal and interested in the company

knowing, that by doing those things, you would end up making
good profits for your stockholders, even if the products
might not turn an immense profit instantly

I think that's still possible --

But the problem now is that in the corporate world, many high up people are only in a job for 2-3 years, so they aren't interested in doing anything
that could take a year or more to show up on the balance sheet.

So any idea, worker loyalty, wage, that takes more than a year to show
that it was the right way, is never done, because Wall Street is too impatient
to see share increase NOW NOW NOW..

It creates a shortsighted instant gratification to investors mentality.

Add to that the fact that thousands of "investment holding" businesses are simply parasites
who do nothing useful and just 'own' other businesses and leech off their profits, and drive their companies to make faster and faster increases in profits.

That's very different than the privately held businesses of yesteryear
when a guy knew that to grow his business would take a while, would take
customer loyalty, worker loyalty, based not from marketing
but from quality goods, good wages, and so on.

Now, everybody wants you to buy it because it's a cheap price, not because it's a good product.

 

[treimers]

Going on with the 'cheap price' marketing vs the 'good product' concept -

Look on Google at some of the ads in their Popular Mechanics archives.

Those ads talk constantly about the high quality of materials, the skilled workers doing precision workmanship, etc.
Price is there, but there's no concept of "70% off this week"

Now, go look at the ad from Lowes or HD, or anywhere else.

No mention of quality, workmanship, materials used, etc.
It's ALL about "25% off retail", and so on.


And before you go there- - - that's marketing, not customer desire.

Sure, we're now trained for a couple of generations to react well to the
"sale this week at up to 50% off"

But the marketing folks started that -- they are the ones who ended the idea of ads like I mentioned above.

It all came crashing down when the owner of the company wasn't the one who built the prototype product.
When the MBA guy with training in marketing who'd never used a drill press in his life started running the family tool company that had just been bought by ACME Corp, the entire marketing focus changed.

And right after they started focusing on price instead of quality,
they realized that they could start quietly lowering the quality of the steel and the workmanship.

 

[brickG-man]

One never knows if a company will stay in business. Years ago I am sure nobody thought that RCA would go out of business. I for one in my widest dreams never thought that Kodak would go out of business. If you are buying tools for the lifetime warranty it may always be a risk. As for Craftsman, the nice US made tool may be replaced by a cheaper, inferior foreign made tool. That just how life is. It doesn't mean that we have to like it.

 

[cburnscrx]

Some folks have mentioned COO nerds as being
aimed towards defeating China's record on human rights, pay, etc.

I'd add this in:

"business's goal is to increase shareholders wealth"

That's one reason many more of us are angry.

It should not be true that a businesses first goal should be to make it's shareholders wealthy
That is what is happening -- nowadays,
if anything is perceived to be a quick shareholder profit for the immediate business quarter, the company jumps on it, never mind paying the piper down the road.
US jobs, wages, quality, reputation, every bit of that
comes dead last after paying out large stockholders in the coming business quarter.

Once upon a time, back in the mid-70s and before, the idea was
- make a good high quality product
- sell it at a competitive price so that most of the population could afford to buy and use your product.
- provide good wages to highly skilled quality workers
- motivate workers to be loyal and interested in the company

knowing, that by doing those things, you would end up making
good profits for your stockholders, even if the products
might not turn an immense profit instantly

I think that's still possible --

But the problem now is that in the corporate world, many high up people are only in a job for 2-3 years, so they aren't interested in doing anything
that could take a year or more to show up on the balance sheet.

So any idea, worker loyalty, wage, that takes more than a year to show
that it was the right way, is never done, because Wall Street is too impatient
to see share increase NOW NOW NOW..

It creates a shortsighted instant gratification to investors mentality.

Add to that the fact that thousands of "investment holding" businesses are simply parasites
who do nothing useful and just 'own' other businesses and leech off their profits, and drive their companies to make faster and faster increases in profits.

That's very different than the privately held businesses of yesteryear
when a guy knew that to grow his business would take a while, would take
customer loyalty, worker loyalty, based not from marketing
but from quality goods, good wages, and so on.

Now, everybody wants you to buy it because it's a cheap price, not because it's a good product.

I'll sum this up...

You can't legislate greed and always remember the golden rule...those with the gold make the rules.

 

[absolutelybillsmood]

A couple people already said this but, Wilde is a good alternative. I think price and quality are similar to old Craftsman.

 

[treimers]

I'll sum this up...

You can't legislate greed and always remember the golden rule...those with the gold make the rules.

I'd agree that you can't legislate greed.

However, I think the first rule of a government is to protect it's
primary asset.

Unlike what appears to be commonly believed, that 'primary asset'
is NOT the economy.

The primary asset of any country is the majority of it's citizens!
Once you properly protect and serve the best interests of the citizens,
by doing things like ensuring that the cost of living doesn't outstrip income
for the largest group of the population in the middle of the bell curve, so to speak.

For a government, that can mean protecting the interests of smaller family owned businesses over the back-room closed-door lobbying of larger businesses
Government should be ensuring that citizen-owned small businesses thrive just as much as big companies do, without allowing the money and influence of big business to tip the playing field on small businesses.
Another task of a successful government is ensuring that products sold and shipped overseas from a nation versus products purchased from overseas
always come out a net profit for the citizens in the end-- ensuring that
citizens budget can equally select between local and foreign.
We've now spent so much time with the 'favored trading partner' stuff
that Joe's Wrench Company in Connecticut can't compete price-wise
with Chinese imports given special pricing status by Congress, at the behest of WallyWorld.


Too often, our government creates laws that are good for WalMart, but bad for Joes' Hardware Store and Tool Factory.


This doesn't mean that government has to regulate US businesses, other than to ensure a fair and level playing table between small and large business.

But it does mean that the US government should not enact laws that make it more profitable for businesses to outsource overseas than to pay US workers good wages.
Tariffs on products shipped back into the country fixes that, or
tax and other incentives to manufacture inside a country's borders, and higher taxes if manufacturing is sent overseas.


The basic thing I think our big businesses and government have forgotten
is that the shareholder is not the most important part of the economy.
the citizen is the most important part of the economy.

Incentivize that situation to reverse itself, and we'll have solved
a lot of our jobs problem, our national debt problem, and many others as well.

Simply seeing the amount of money being paid to stockholders go up and up doesn't equate to a healthy economy that is supposedly making a nation better and better.

 

[metaldad]

i heard it before (buying american is important) i dont understand the concept of american only.

because the job you save by buying USA may be yours, your neighbors, your uncles.

 

[neophyte]

I'll sum this up...

You can't legislate greed and always remember the golden rule...those with the gold make the rules.

This only works if the guy with the gold, is willing to give enough of it to the guys with the guns, to protect himself from the guys with the hemp rope.

 

[908Jim]

Definitely SK. People were nervous for a while a couple years ago but there seems to be a reasonable commitment to SK. Being that (for most people) you need to order SK and ship back for warranty, it prevents a lot of people from buying a tool with the intent of abusing and returning for replacement. Additionally, because the SK warranty claim is handled by an SK employee in their facility as opposed to joe schmoe who doesnt care, they are going to be more critical of tools that come in for replacement. Most people who buy SK are people who use the right tool for the job, or so I'd like to believe.

Jim

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Carsandtools]

Farm & Fleet, ha ha that takes me back. I wish we had that down here. My grandparents are in central IL and talk about Farm & Fleet all the time.

We have a semi knockoff down here called Tractor Supply. I don't think they sell 1 USA made tool. I don't go there often and there is a reason for that.

Really? You know they just opened one, like this past week, over by GE? I haven't been there yet as I live pretty close to the other one. I think it even has a full lumberyard and all, right next to walmart of course.

Farm & Fleet sells Channellock and you will find some other USA tools there also.

I get what you are saying in that it's not the same issue. Trust me, I spent many years of my life in manufacturing and got tired of seeing things I used to produce here in the states, is now being made overseas but still being sold at made in USA prices. My point was that none of the things I mentioned are made in the USA, But it's accepted to own some of them and not the other. Therefore it truly has become an issue about quality of the global market.
I was simply saying that's why I don't understand some folks issue about COO.

I get what you are saying. Sure, if you want an electric drill, there is probably no American made unit. I think Milwaukee was the last company to produce power tools here. Even DeWalt power tools are make in China since they joined up with Stanley B&D.

But in my mind, there is something about a hand tool that is different from a power tool. A good hand tool is so personal, such a natural extension of the person holding it, that it just feels good to know that the tool is American made. There is pride in knowing that the thing you build or repair was built or repaired with tools that were also made in your country. Not everyone gets that, but I do. Working as an engineer, I have designed products with no control over where those products will be manufactured. Companies are motivated by profit and that's the way it is.

Economic strength comes from production, making things out of raw materials. Financial strength comes from production, domestic consumption and exports. Military strength comes from being able to produce within the country those things that the military needs to operate. It would be foolish to base our military on tanks, planes and armament and food from overseas. That's what the Berry Amendment was all about.

It is important to keep a strong tool industry in the USA. Everything else depends on it. This is so obvious that politicians on both sides agreed on it.

 

[d.mcfarland]

^^^ That's deep and a highly respectable comment. Well said.

 

[John316]

SK all the way

 

[Loscaldazar]

That didn't take long to get off topic into a COO debate.

I'm mainly going to mirror everyone else here in suggestions.

Masterforce is competitively priced against Craftsman for sockets, ratchets, wrenches, etc, but they have no USA made pliers line (that being said, the import masterforce pliers are actually very good quality). I think Channellock is very attainable in its price range, and they are excellent too while being made in the USA.

Otherwise SK is the next best option. Way more expensive than CMAN/Masterforce, but still way cheaper than SO/MAC/MATCO for a 100% USA made product (steel is all USA, labor and manufacturing is all USA too).

If those don't float your boat, USA made Williams, Cornwell, Armstrong, and a few other small players are around SK pricing and offer great USA made tools.

Other than that, you're out of luck for cheap USA made tools brand new.

 

[jd_1138]

That didn't take long to get off topic into a COO debate.

I'm mainly going to mirror everyone else here in suggestions.

Masterforce is competitively priced against Craftsman for sockets, ratchets, wrenches, etc, but they have no USA made pliers line (that being said, the import masterforce pliers are actually very good quality). I think Channellock is very attainable in its price range, and they are excellent too while being made in the USA.

Otherwise SK is the next best option. Way more expensive than CMAN/Masterforce, but still way cheaper than SO/MAC/MATCO for a 100% USA made product (steel is all USA, labor and manufacturing is all USA too).

If those don't float your boat, USA made Williams, Cornwell, Armstrong, and a few other small players are around SK pricing and offer great USA made tools.

Other than that, you're out of luck for cheap USA made tools brand new.

I never heard of Masterforce or Menard's. Where are they located? 80% of my stuff is USA Craftsman. I like the tools, but I think I want to graduate into a better line of tools like Cornwell/SK. Now that I caught the tool bug recently (and began working on cars seriously), I'd rather my disposable income/hobby money go into obtaining a set of quality USA made tools.

I still need to buy a lot of tools, and I am kinda OCD about wanting mainly one brand, and I don't want any Chinese Craftsman. So it's a good point to jump onto a different brand.

 

[Moose97]

I agree that Channel lock is probably the best route for an American made line of pliers. SK is also a good alternative to Craftsman if American made is important to you but the price is substantially more. I really liked someone's idea (can't remember now who said it) of going with used. All of my Craftsman tools are USA made but it's getting harder to find now, especially in their sets. I just wish Craftsman hadn't changed but in America today, the bottom line is all it's about. If that weren't the case, Walmart wouldn't be the giant that they are. If American made isn't at the top of your priority list then Craftsman is still a good way to go for price and availability. With Sears facing financial hardship, the Craftsman and Kenmore brands will probably continue to spread to other stores (Ace hardware now carries Craftsman). It's too bad someone at Craftsman couldn't have been a bit more of a visionary and kept Craftsman as American made and got them in to Home Depot or Lowes as well as Sears and the others. Probably would have offset the lower money they were making by expanding their buyer market.

On a side note, I found a Stanley screwdriver in an old travel-trailer box of mine and it is made in the USA. i probably got it from my grandfathers collection. Anybody know how long ago Stanley stopped making in USA?

 

[the1nonlyjl]

Armstrong> SK

 

[hell_fish_65]

If I recall, Craftman has done this before and came back. I picked up a set of the Craftsman Pro screwdrivers last week. I like them. Yeah, double the cost of the old screwdrivers, but a much better product. I was eyeing the Williams screwdrivers, but they are just like the snap ons I already have. Figured a soft grip set was needed. All my sockets are craftsman. I can break one and get a replacement. If I don't like it, a trip to the pawn shop and a buck will get me a replacement. How often do you break a tool? I have drivers (screw, torx, etc.) break mainly and a few sockets. Maybe 2 wrenches and a few rachets that were rebuilt.

 

[SMKS]

Armstrong> SK

For some of the tools this is far from true.

The Armstrong sockets are identical to the Craftsman sockets but with a much higher price tag. The Armstrong sockets are not worth the price. Some of the screwdrivers are also the same as Craftsman Pro drivers.

Unless you can get a super deal on those tools, Armstrong is not a bargain, IMO.

But, some Armstrong stuff is well regarded. The Maxx ratchets are awesome and the wrenches are nice, too.

 

[theoldwizard1]

For some of the tools this is far from true.

The Armstrong sockets are identical to the Craftsman sockets but with a much higher price tag.

I recently bought some Armstrong sockets and they are NOT identical to Craftsman, even the older Craftsman forged in the US. The finish on the Armstrong is MUCH nicer.

The price when buying individual sockets was pretty high. Not in the Snap On ranger, but higher than Craftsman, even the Craftsman Industrial

CRAFTSMAN INDUSTRIAL 9-24172 Socket,Std,1/2 Dr,6 Pt,1-1/2 In $18.46 +$5.00

Armstrong 12-048 1-1/2-Inch, 6 Point, 1/2-Inch Drive SAE Standard Socket $34.95 + FREE shipping

 

[SMKS]

I recently bought some Armstrong sockets and they are NOT identical to Craftsman, even the older Craftsman forged in the US. The finish on the Armstrong is MUCH nicer.

The price when buying individual sockets was pretty high. Not in the Snap On ranger, but higher than Craftsman, even the Craftsman Industrial

I specifically was not referring to the new Chinese sockets, but the Craftsman USA sockets that are still widely available.

The Armstrong sockets also reportedly have the same double-detent as the Craftsman sockets, which many people here hate. I don't own any with that detent, so I don't really have an opinion.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53409
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53409

Specifically, check out post #10 in this thread. They sure look the same in this picture.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107783

 

[theamcaddict]

Farm & Fleet sells Channellock and you will find some other USA tools there also.


I get what you are saying. Sure, if you want an electric drill, there is probably no American made unit. I think Milwaukee was the last company to produce power tools here. Even DeWalt power tools are make in China since they joined up with Stanley B&D.

But in my mind, there is something about a hand tool that is different from a power tool. A good hand tool is so personal, such a natural extension of the person holding it, that it just feels good to know that the tool is American made. There is pride in knowing that the thing you build or repair was built or repaired with tools that were also made in your country. Not everyone gets that, but I do. Working as an engineer, I have designed products with no control over where those products will be manufactured. Companies are motivated by profit and that's the way it is.

Economic strength comes from production, making things out of raw materials. Financial strength comes from production, domestic consumption and exports. Military strength comes from being able to produce within the country those things that the military needs to operate. It would be foolish to base our military on tanks, planes and armament and food from overseas. That's what the Berry Amendment was all about.

It is important to keep a strong tool industry in the USA. Everything else depends on it. This is so obvious that politicians on both sides agreed on it.

Amen.

&

SK is my cure all in this situation.

 

[herbet99]

...
Menards is 60 miles and 90 minutes away.
Nope. Not an option.

menards.com is everywhere

 

[Brownsfan]

I never heard of Masterforce or Menard's. Where are they located? 80% of my stuff is USA Craftsman. I like the tools, but I think I want to graduate into a better line of tools like Cornwell/SK. Now that I caught the tool bug recently (and began working on cars seriously), I'd rather my disposable income/hobby money go into obtaining a set of quality USA made tools.

I still need to buy a lot of tools, and I am kinda OCD about wanting mainly one brand, and I don't want any Chinese Craftsman. So it's a good point to jump onto a different brand.

There are 2 not that far from us. One in Sandusky and one in Mansfield. They are also in Columbus. Pretty good stuff for the money

 

[LB-1911]

I never heard of Masterforce or Menard's. Where are they located?

http://www.menards.com/main/storeLocator.html

 

[Steinmetz]

"...Economic strength comes from production, making things out of raw materials. Financial strength comes from production, domestic consumption and exports. Military strength comes from being able to produce within the country those things that the military needs to operate. It would be foolish to base our military on tanks, planes and armament and food from overseas. That's what the Berry Amendment was all about..."

Proudly spoken. But you left out the part about the $600 hammer.

 

[ArcStyles]

Most of us are in a struggle with the slave labor and cooperate greed relationship shutting down our American industries. But we are not the only nation of people going through these same worries.

Garage Journal is a global forum with many of our allies holding residence in other like minded nations. Do we not see, that if other strong industrial manufacturing nations lose their hold in these markets, that we would not eventually go down with them? These countrymen earned the right to wear their COO labels, a standard they hold as high as our own.

These nations and their working class, keep our label strong by demanding the same quality of their own products. This is not a fight with them, this a fight against greed and an the act of human indecency. Let us take time to of think of our forum brothers who are going through the same challenges in their own nation, and stand to lose the same jobs.

We need them to succeed as well as they need us. Lets give them the same respect and blessings.