The Curious Copper Caper

[Private Lugnutz]

Some of us were just having a tangential copper-plating/-coating conversation on page 5 of this thread. As if on cue, I found two sockets at one of my flea market stops today that appear to have a copper coating or thin copper plating of some kind.

They are shown here with a Plomb WF-53 (1-1/6”) and a Blackhawk O18 (9/16”) socket, also found at the same flea market.

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They are 1/2-inch square drive, with a chamfer in the drive opening, thick walls, deep cold broach, unbranded, marked only with a fractional size stamp. They look pre-war to me for sure. Probably 1920’s, perhaps 1930’s.

Outside light

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Inside light

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Many major mfgrs were using copper plating as a base for nickel- or chrome-plating on all kinds of automotive tools, including socket drive tools, from very early on to as late as 1952. Examples of tools with the chrome- or nickel-plating wearing away showing the copper underplate are well known.

Plomb was actually selling a line of box end spark reduction safety wrenches finished with a special copper-coating process they called KOP-R-KLAD as late as 1939.

But the only socket drive tools with an intentionally copper-coated finish that I know of are Bethlehem Spark Plug Company “Quick-Way” sets, made in the mid 1920’s. They were also unbranded, but they were 1/2-inch hex drive, crudely forged, and the size markings were made with a hyphen, not a slash.

Here are a few BSP Co “Quick Way” sockets from my sets (these were assembled to show the wear on the coating, from left to right).

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And here are some photos of the two (2) copper-coated sockets I just found (bottom row) with three (3) BSP Co copper-coated sockets (top row) for close comparison purposes.

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I suppose it's possible that Bethlehem was making 1/2-inch square drive tools, and stuck with the copper-coating finish, but there is no historical record of that.

Does anyone know of any other mfgr using copper-plating or coating as a final finish in the early days of socket drive tools?

Does anyone have any thoughts on identifying the mfgr of these two sockets – irrespective of the copper-coating, from the shape, broaching, band of knurling, or the size marking style?

Does anyone else have any copper-plated or coated 1/2-inch square drive sockets? If so, please post them.

 

[Fretters]

Copper is the base coat for quite a few plating finishes. The plating has just worn through.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Copper is the base coat for quite a few plating finishes.

Yes, Fretters, as I just stated above...

Many major mfgrs were using copper plating as a base for nickel- or chrome-plating on all kinds of automotive tools, including socket drive tools, from very early on to as late as 1952. Examples of tools with the chrome- or nickel-plating wearing away showing the copper underplate are well known.

I've had other primitive sockets with the undercoating showing through, and that would be the most obvious explanation, which is why I also asked for an ID irrespective of the copper coating. That might help convince me that the top finish has worn off. Nobody turning up any others would help, also.

But these don't appear to be an underplating to me or I wouldn't have suggested otherwise. I could be wrong about that. I could have just happened upon the two sockets in all my years of pawing through old toolboxes that happen to be so thoroughly worn in such a way that they have me fooled as a top coat.

 

[snapmom]

Here are some S/O copper plated tools, it is not wear, the brass selector switches are copper coated, all the low places are coated where there would be no wear.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, snapmom. Agreed! But I would suspect those are all safety tools, for non-sparking work environments, no? I probably should've brought that up when I was talking about the Plomb KOP-R-KLAD line. (EDIT: I should add that if I'm wrong, it would be a case of dearly loving to be wrong, because it would lend credence to a greater incidence of copper-coated tools than I was previously aware of, so please correct me if these are standard tools with copper coating as an alternative standard finish.)

The old Bethlehem "Quick-Way" sockets sets, some pieces of which I showed above, were not made for or marketed for non-sparking applications. They were just everyday mechanics' tools, using copper coating as a routine corrosion inhibiting finish. And the two I just found strike me as similar, no sign of any top coat, so I was polling for any others like that out there.

But I appreciate your input and expertise as always. If you have any ideas on the possible makers on those two, I'd appreciate it.

 

[DadsTools]

My thoughts looking at the broachings is that the two unmarked sockets are different enough from the BSP to suspect they are not the same mfr. The differences in external geometry between the two sockets themselves (height, knurling) may lean toward different mfrs also, or two different lines from the same mfr. Even the top and bottom chamfer of each have subtle differences. The stamps producing the 1s on each are different too. I've seen sockets like the smaller one on the right, cadmium-like finish, but for the life of me at the moment I can't recall what they were or if I even have them anymore. The shape and shallowness of the larger one on left is certainly reminiscent of those early hex drives with the ell handle--looks an awful lot like an old set I sold some time ago where the sockets were stacked onto the ell handle for storage.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The shape and shallowness of the larger one on left is certainly reminiscent of those early hex drives with the ell handle--looks an awful lot like an old set I sold some time ago where the sockets were stacked onto the ell handle for storage.

Totally agree. I was surprised to discover it was square drive when I flipped it over. Nice to see some company for your J.P. Danielson adjustable, eh?

 

[twertsy]

All my Bethlehem sets are hex. I'm casually looking around for other copper-appearing sockets/drive tools.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, Todd. Mine too, and I don't think they ever moved past that. Just an idea based on them being the only well known copper coated in that era.

 

[DadsTools]

Totally agree. I was surprised to discover it was square drive when I flipped it over. Nice to see some company for your J.P. Danielson adjustable, eh?

Yes, though I think we've established that the Danielson's M.O. is more along the lines of those Plomb Kop-R-Kote tools. I think I'm going to sit on it for awhile until the dust settles before deciding what to do with it. It's entering into the Christmas season, and tools are being put aside for the sake of tackling the mountain of vintage lights and ornaments I have to post for sale. When that market heats up, it's HOT HOT HOT! [although I'm dying to go through the stash of late-20s early-30s Snap-On cache I just found).

I also need to get the time to post pix of that old 3/8" drive Blackhawk stuff I found (with the brace you helped to identify for me--thank you for this, and for other things as you know).

I looked at the BSP again on AA. The 1" socket has certain similarities like the single center knurl band and the perpendicular size stamp, but the knurling is not the same and the examples on AA show a sans serif font while your 1" is a serif character. The reference to the posted ad mentioning earlier sets A, B and C might be of interest. The 1" seems to be cruder in construction than the BSP examples, and it's been my observation that, at least until wartime and later, successive iterations became more refined than the earlier examples. If this is a BSP, it's likely earlier than the AA examples.

I think what I need to do is to start studying the various early socket examples on AA to see if we can find a design match.

Of course, for me, the first culprit I always question at the top of my 'usual suspects' list for anything weird is the Schizo/Duro/Indestro boys.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I didn't mean to suggest they might be 1/2 inch square BSP from the same era that BSP was making the 1/2 inch hex. The construction is completely different. As for the center knurl, several mfgrs were doing that. Blackhawk, for one. Snap-On, too. I think maybe Bog, too. I'm not a huge dedicated 20s guy, so I'd have to actually go study them. I was hoping someone would recognize them.

 

[DadsTools]

They're certainly intriguing, and they get your investigative juices flowing.

 

[snapmom]

The S/O I have are mostly war era, but quite a few are 60s era. I had a older dealer tell me that the dealers were able to order them and they were for non sparking, but I have never seen them listed in any Snap on material.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, snapmom.

 

[Provincial]

The S/O I have are mostly war era, but quite a few are 60s era. I had a older dealer tell me that the dealers were able to order them and they were for non sparking, but I have never seen them listed in any Snap on material.

Two eras when there was a lot of action in ordnance plants.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a 6" Crescent wrench that I've had for about 28 years (it was old when I got it) and always wondered about the traces of copper plating.
-Don

 

[Fretters]

The S/O I have are mostly war era, but quite a few are 60s era. I had a older dealer tell me that the dealers were able to order them and they were for non sparking, but I have never seen them listed in any Snap on material.

Personally, I can't see how a light coating of copper will make something "non sparking". The base tool material would need to be cupreous to attain that quality.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Personally, I can't see how a light coating of copper will make something "non sparking". The base tool material would need to be cupreous to attain that quality.

Such as BeCu. I agree. And that's exactly what I said in this post on another thread (linked in my first post on this thread) about a copper-coated J.P. Danielson-made adjustable shown in thumbnails on this post in the same thread.

But notlob reminded us of this Plomb line of tools, called KOP-R-KLAD, which I alluded to upthread, advertised as safety wrenches, to "reduce" sparking, or "lessen the possible hazard". Note that they indemnify themselves by not claiming them to be non-sparking. I am thinking there must have been (and perhaps still is) some lesser degree of safety wrenches, not certified as non-sparking, and not requiring it, that I was previously unaware of. The JPD adjustable and the Snap-On tools seem to be part of the same category as the Plomb tools. (Again, just to emphasize the distinction, though, the Bethlehem copper-coated tools were not made or advertised for that purpose. Whether the two mystery sockets were or not remains to be seen.)

 

[snapmom]

What year is the Plomb Cat? Are the Plomb wrenches stamped with those model numbers in the ad?

 

[Ray-CA]

I thought you were heading here:

Ray

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What year is the Plomb Cat? Are the Plomb wrenches stamped with those model numbers in the ad?

It's from Catalog 18-A, circa 1940. I've never seen one of the actual tools, snapmom.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I thought you were heading here:

HAHA! Another Carson fan!
It was intended as an homage. I guess I should've though harder to string a few more words in there to make it a little more obvious.

 

[snapmom]

It's from Catalog 18-A, circa 1940. I've never seen one of the actual tools, snapmom.

At least we have some truth for the history. It is a good learning thread.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is another picture of the Crescent wrench I posted earlier followed by a wartime Diamond carbon steel adjustable wrench (without the horseshoe but with the broached hanging hole).
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm moving some comments on this subject from another thread to here...

As to the "copper plating" that Private_Lugnutz mentioned:

This might provide a better explanation for the early use of copper.
Bethlehem's (The Bethlehem Spark Plug Company, of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania) "Quickway" sockets were "Oxidized copper plated to prevent rust"...

THANKS, four.cycle! You don't know how happy I am to see that! I had spent several hours using Newspapers.com to find and pour through ads from 1924 through 1927, and I never did find one that mentioned the copper plating by name.

EDIT: Here is the ad four.cycle posted:

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I don't know what kind of condition the copper plating is on your set, Lugnutz, but my little "Set A" sockets have hardly a trace of the copper plating left on them. Most of the Bethlehem "Quickway" sets that I see on Ebay (the "Set A" being most common) have only traces of the copper. Some, like this fabulous "Big Boy" Set F, still have some of the original copper plating intact...

My "Set A“ has only a few sockets in it and they're a mixed bag. A couple have a good bit of the plating remaining (though thin), and couple are completely denuded. My "Set D" is complete and the sockets and handles run from no trace of copper plating whatsoever (a few) to very well-clad (a few) with the large majority in between being thinly clad. My “Set C” is pretty much the same.

I haven’t shown my sets here on GJ yet, although I have collaborated on and off with Todd about the manufacturing of the ratchet on TA. You can read that exchange here.

And I did post some photos upthread for the purposes of discussing the plating.

When I get some time, I’ll try to take some high quality photos of my sets and post either here or perhaps on a thread dedicated to Bethlehem Spark Plug tools. They have turned up here and there on various GJ threads but don’t have their own thread. They probably deserve their own thread. If you already have photos ready to go and want the honor of starting a thread, please do so and I’ll tack onto that one day.

 

[four.cycle]

I don't know what kind of condition the copper plating is on your set, Lugnutz, but my little "Set A" sockets have hardly a trace of the copper plating left on them. Most of the Bethlehem "Quickway" sets that I see on Ebay (the "Set A" being most common) have only traces of the copper. Some, like this fabulous "Big Boy" Set F, still have some of the original copper plating intact...

Coincidentally, another Ebay seller just listed this "Set A", which appears to have most of the copper plating intact:



I have no idea where my little "Set A" is right now, so these are the only photo images I've got at the moment. But like I said above, my own "Set A" has very little (if any) of the copper plating left.

Early catalog advertisements for "Bethlehem Quickway" below in the next post:

 

[four.cycle]

... Speaking of "Set A", I do own a complete set, which includes both the "Ell" handle and a hex driver bar with a cross bar (i.e., "Tee" handle.)
But depending upon which hardware company's catalog you're reading, you may get both the "Ell" handle and the "Tee" bar, or you may only get the "Tee" handle.

One of the ads mentions "Oxidized copper plated to prevent rust".








dedicated Bethlehem "Quickway" thread HERE:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374757
(* with more catalog ads I didn't even know I had *)

 

[Roberts210]

I thought this Thread was going to be about this:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was riffing off of the Carson skit for the thread title, Roberts. Ray-CA beat you to it, though. See post #20 and #22.

 

[Roberts210]

Brilliant minds think alike.

 

[four.cycle]

I just noticed that the 1924 Buhl Sons catalog advertisement for "Red Devil" pliers (pp 337) notes that they were available in "Copper and blued nickel finish".
see here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6818214#post6818214

 

[7th Kahuna]

Several years back I acquired an old Craftsman socketed wood chisel. It used the elongated 'C' logo which I generally think of as 1930's. The 'steel' was an odd copper color. When I went to flatten the back, it too turned out to have been nicely copper plated. It has had me puzzled ever since. I had wondered if it might not have been intended for use around salt water (boats). If I can figure out what I did with it, I'll post a picture.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I just noticed that the 1924 Buhl Sons catalog advertisement for "Red Devil" pliers (pp 337) notes that they were available in "Copper and blued nickel finish".
see here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6818214#post6818214

That's another great affirming reference, BK. Thanks.

Several years back I acquired an old Craftsman socketed wood chisel. It used the elongated 'C' logo which I generally think of as 1930's. The 'steel' was an odd copper color. When I went to flatten the back, it too turned out to have been nicely copper plated. It has had me puzzled ever since. I had wondered if it might not have been intended for use around salt water (boats). If I can figure out what I did with it, I'll post a picture.

I'd love to see it if you can find it. Thanks for contributing.

And to both of you my apologies for a belated reply. Believe it or not, I wasn't subscribed to my own thread!

I had completely missed your posts somehow until now, when I came here to link this thread to a recent copper-plating inquiry thread, linked here.

 

[DadsTools]

Such as BeCu. I agree. And that's exactly what I said in this post on another thread (linked in my first post on this thread) about a copper-coated J.P. Danielson-made adjustable shown in thumbnails on this post in the same thread.

But notlob reminded us of this Plomb line of tools, called KOP-R-KLAD, which I alluded to upthread, advertised as safety wrenches, to "reduce" sparking, or "lessen the possible hazard". Note that they indemnify themselves by not claiming them to be non-sparking. I am thinking there must have been (and perhaps still is) some lesser degree of safety wrenches, not certified as non-sparking, and not requiring it, that I was previously unaware of. The JPD adjustable and the Snap-On tools seem to be part of the same category as the Plomb tools. (Again, just to emphasize the distinction, though, the Bethlehem copper-coated tools were not made or advertised for that purpose. Whether the two mystery sockets were or not remains to be seen.)

I guess it's time for me to post the photos here of that Danielson wrench.

I'll tell you, the debate over it made me so crazy that after my posts on this thread, I took about a 3-month complete hiatus from GJ in disgust. Especially over a tool I had just mentioned in passing on a thread and then was asked to post photos of it--I wasn't trying to toot any horn, nor did I have an agenda. Boy,what a happy ending for me by posting them! Even buried the GJ shortcut for the site in some obscure sub-folder. Trying to debate the wild speculations about it was ridiculous. According to some it seems, every undocumented copper-plated tool in this thread, including Snapmom's examples, were all home-made, or made as an award, or were done in some plant experimenting with coatings, or was a chemical reaction (that's right, Snapmom, your copper-coated tools are all fakes)--ANY explanation, no matter how wildly speculative, was apparently preferable than to accept the dreadful possibility that a tool mfr ever actually made a wrench like this, on purpose, for a specific task. And with a persistent disregard for the actual physical evidence on the wrench itself. I'm still kind of scratching my head over this attitude.

In any event, at least this thread serves to further confirm that:

1. A number of mfrs (not just one or two) indeed made such copper-alloy plated wrenches, intentionally no less eek, for a specific purpose;
2. Just because an individual had never seen nor heard of one before, or that the tool is not clearly listed in a surviving catalog, doesn't mean that it can't exist or must be home-made;
3. That the seller I bought this from who was clearly not a tool expert offered a provenance that happened to synchronize well with what was discovered by further research doesn't mean he was a liar or that he miraculously pulled this story from the psychic vapors (or maybe the Akashic records) out a million stories he could have made up about the tool. Or that any seller offering a provenance for the legitimacy of such a tool must be out-of-hand a liar also.

Oy!

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Maybe it was a California thing... $0.50 extra in 1949(popular mechanics) was a decent premium.

 

[DadsTools]

Maybe it was a California thing... $0.50 extra in 1949(popular mechanics) was a decent premium.

Cool find on that ad!

I believe the difference is that this wrench could be ordered with a copper finish. Bet it wasn't with a thick copper plating.

 

[d42jeep]

I found my first ever Berylco wrench in the wild today.
-Don

 

[DadsTools]

I found my first ever Berylco wrench in the wild today.
-Don

Nice. Isn't the Berylco a solid beryllium/copper, not just plated? (hence the name?)

 

[d42jeep]

I believe that you are correct. The ever popular beryllium. I won't be shining it up any, that's for sure. I've run out of copper plated examples.
-Don

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Cool find on that ad!

I believe the difference is that this wrench could be ordered with a copper finish. Bet it wasn't with a thick copper plating.

There are a few to look at on Ebay. I thought they might actually be quite a bit better than a vice grip when you don't have a hand free, then I noticed the copper.