The deck from hell...

[Burtonrider10022]

We rent, and this deck seriously needs to be replaced. I'm working with the landlord to get it up to code, but I've told her I am not going to do the work because I am not licensed, nor a professional, and I don't want the liability. I did have to make one fix though, because the stairs were about to fall off.

How many code violations can you count?

And here we have the big issue:

Nothing supporting the stair runner

So I propped up the runner, and removed the top step:

So, again, I want no part of a permanent fix here, because to be honest it's out of my league. But for now I took a 2x4 and went straight down from the top of the runner to the concrete, and then took another 2x4 and made an angle support from the 4x4 support. I'm well aware that this is not up to code either, but with my limited tools and lumber I just needed to brace the stairs until a contractor can come out next week.

 

[Chaznsc]

Damn that's a lot of nails!

 

[theoldwizard1]

We rent, and this deck seriously needs to be replaced. I'm working with the landlord to get it up to code, but I've told her I am not going to do the work because I am not licensed, nor a professional, and I don't want the liability.

Smart man.


Now start making some phone calls. Find out who you would report safety concerns to regarding rental properties.

First, find a renters rights group or a local free legal service and find out about putting your rent into escrow until the job is fixed and passes a city/county inspection.

 

[akdiesel]

Makes you wonder how that deck is still standing.

 

[Burtonrider10022]

Smart man.


Now start making some phone calls. Find out who you would report safety concerns to regarding rental properties.

First, find a renters rights group or a local free legal service and find out about putting your rent into escrow until the job is fixed and passes a city/county inspection.

I've notified the landlord that it needs to be fixed. I'm out of town this weekend, but they are supposed to be coming to look at it on Saturday. If they don't move forward with a professional repair then I will take that advice. I live in Chicago, IL. One call to the building inspector and City hall will be so far in the landlords pocket it's not even funny.

Like I said though, fair is fair, so as long as they fix it in a timely manner, I'll leave it at that.

Makes you wonder how that deck is still standing.

I'm actually shocked that those stairs held for as long as they did.

 

[rockchalk]

Did you not look at the deck before you rented the place.
Maybe I'm missing something here. If it was something like mold in the walls or duct work, then yeah, call the building dept. Moving in and then making a fuss about a condition that was readily apparent seems like a stretch.
Requesting that repairs be made to make the deck safe seem like fair game, but you may end up without any deck, and just a set of stairs from the patio door to the yard.
It's your call about contacting the authorities, but I'm guessing the general condition of the property (deck included) factored into the rental price.

 

[ChargedUp!]

Did you not look at the deck before you rented the place.
Maybe I'm missing something here. If it was something like mold in the walls or duct work, then yeah, call the building dept. Moving in and then making a fuss about a condition that was readily apparent seems like a stretch.
Requesting that repairs be made to make the deck safe seem like fair game, but you may end up without any deck, and just a set of stairs from the patio door to the yard.
It's your call about contacting the authorities, but I'm guessing the general condition of the property (deck included) factored into the rental price.

I'm with you on this one. It'll be interesting to hear how this plays out.

 

[JJThrasher]

To an extent rockchalk is correct. There is a certain amount of you get what you pay for. If you're in a cheap place you have to expect not everything is 100% to code. Landlords will do things as cheaply as possible to keep rent down, so they can keep the places rented and make money.

Now on the flip side. Things still have to be safe. The landlord is liable for his property. Those stairs need fixed and the electrical need addressed as well. Beyond that depending on where you live and what your rent is its kind of meh.

Does the deck feel like its about to fall apart?

 

[srmofo]

Did you not look at the deck before you rented the place.
Maybe I'm missing something here. If it was something like mold in the walls or duct work, then yeah, call the building dept. Moving in and then making a fuss about a condition that was readily apparent seems like a stretch.
Requesting that repairs be made to make the deck safe seem like fair game, but you may end up without any deck, and just a set of stairs from the patio door to the yard.
It's your call about contacting the authorities, but I'm guessing the general condition of the property (deck included) factored into the rental price.

Sorry you're wrong.

The landlord is responsible for the property. If something is unsafe and not up to code they shouldnt be renting it out. Renting it out cheap doesnt rectify the situation or make it right.

If the deck was in disrepair when the renters came through to check it out, and by your account it was visibly in disrepair. The owner should have had it fixed immediately.

To the OP I would notify the owner in writing with a certified letter. Address the previous conversation you had, and establish a written timeline of when it should be fixed. Hopeful you have a decent human being and not a slumlord. Everything needs to be in writing.

 

[Ed Litsch]

The first mistake I see is that whoever put the deck in used nails instead of screws. That's what you should use when you repair it. And I wouldn't be too quick to call inspectors and city officials. You don't want the landlord ticked off at you and evict you.

 

[e-tek]

No one here knows if the deck is unsafe, so stop with the crappy advice of holding rent until its fixed - around here that's grounds for eviction. The OP/renter sounds decent For asking the LL to look at it and repair where and if needed.

If you piss in your Wheaties you just end up with sour cereal.

 

[HAY YOU]

If you have been renting that place for 6 months or a year & the deck was in good shape when you moved in & as time went on the condition got worst then you have a *****. The LL still has to fix it no matter what. But if the deck was falling apart when you moved in take a little responsibility for your bad judgment (you didn’t have to rent the place) give the LL a chance to fix it & use the other entrance for now. You do have another entrance? Or did you overlook that too?

 

[Conductor562]

If you have been renting that place for 6 months or a year & the deck was in good shape when you moved in & as time went on the condition got worst then you have a *****. The LL still has to fix it no matter what. But if the deck was falling apart when you moved in take a little responsibility for your bad judgment (you didn’t have to rent the place) give the LL a chance to fix it & use the other entrance for now. You do have another entrance? Or did you overlook that too?

You must rent property. That or you work for an insurance company.

He has a ***** regardless. The deck in unsafe, he rents, it's the LL's responsibility to fix it. What if the sewer pipe goes in 2 months? I mean, he did rent the place. He probably should've ran a see snake down there before he signed the lease. When turds are floating through the kitchen I suppose it's his fault for not inspecting it properly. He should probably fix it himself. After all, he did **** in the toilet.

 

[nmk_61802]

The first mistake I see is that whoever put the deck in used nails instead of screws. That's what you should use when you repair it. And I wouldn't be too quick to call inspectors and city officials. You don't want the landlord ticked off at you and evict you.

I like screws as well, but standard screws aren't good for shear. Nails, bolts or screws rated for shear are correct

 

[Burtonrider10022]

We've been in the apartment for a year and a half now. It seems like winter really did a number on the deck because recently we've noticed it's not too steady, prompting me to take a look, and finding the stair issue. The area under the deck is the patio for the downstairs apartment, so this is the first I've really seen of the poor craftsmanship.

And just to clarify, we have a good relationship with our landlord. I'm confident that she'll fix it. This thread was originally just to share the high-quality fabrication of the original deck builder, not place blame on the landlord.

 

[atfulldraw]

don't stop them now....

they are about to really get on a roll!

 

[Big Bad Dad]

Getting the code officials involved can be a two edged sword. I have seen cases where someone called them in, and their house or apartment got condemned. Then the tenants had the sudden and immediate problem of not being able to live there and being forced to find another residence.

 

[Blue]

don't stop them now....

they are about to really get on a roll!

OP, glad to hear you're on good terms with the landlord.

And, I think there's probably some clarification required for those who aren't in the great city of Chicago. It looks like you're on the 2nd floor of a 2 flat (or at least above a garden unit)? So, not only is it your deck, its the rear staircase into your apartment.

The City of Chicago takes that stuff seriously. Deck collapses in the city have killed folks before (see article).

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...4-6_1_porch-complaints-porch-contractor-713-w

It's good that you're working with the landlord. But, from the looks of it, the landlord needs to get on the phone with one of the local porch/deck places, and have them put on a new deck. And while I'm sure replacing a porch/deck in Chicago is expensive, I can't imagine what the cost is going to be if someone falls through the thing and sues.

Couple of links to Porch/Deck info from the City of Chicago website:

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/bldgs/supp_info/porch_faq.html

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/e.../permit_proc/svcs/porch_deck_information.html

Like I said, glad to hear you're on good terms with the landlord. Hopefully she gets it fixed right, and not just patched up again.

 

[e-tek]

Sorry this got off on the wrong track, but it does go to show just how different Yanks and Canucks are. For many Americans - especially on a forum - it's all about confrontation, draw your guns, get a lawyer, send a nasty latter, stand your ground and all that. Litigation is the LAST thing that anyone has on their minds in Canada.

My brother lives in SD and rents out one prop. The first time there was trouble they stopped paying rent, moved to a hotel and the lawyers were called. Insurance paid out and now he's out lawyer fees, repair fees, increased insurance costs and lost rent. If a tenant stops paying rent here - for whatever reasons- they are out via the Sheriff by months end!

Not that you personally are doing that, you've said as much. In reality you'll likely find the landlord will be happy to fix it up - especially if you're a good tenant. I have 3 props myself and am continually keeping them up.

 

[RickP]

Reminds me of a renter who threw a party and had 30 people on an unsafe deck 8 feet up in the air. A lot of the guests ended up in the hospital that night.

 

[Jagmandave]

Smart man.


Now start making some phone calls. Find out who you would report safety concerns to regarding rental properties.

First, find a renters rights group or a local free legal service and find out about putting your rent into escrow until the job is fixed and passes a city/county inspection.

Why stir up the shite? He said he's working with the landlord to get it fixed, why not let them do it?

If the landlord refuses to fix it, then get the Nazi's involved......or move. Man I do not understand people today, if you find anything wrong in the world first thing you want to do is call the papers, the TV crews and get lawyers involved. What happened to working together and helping each other to fix problems?

 

[jd_1138]

If you have been renting that place for 6 months or a year & the deck was in good shape when you moved in & as time went on the condition got worst then you have a *****. The LL still has to fix it no matter what. But if the deck was falling apart when you moved in take a little responsibility for your bad judgment (you didn’t have to rent the place) give the LL a chance to fix it & use the other entrance for now. You do have another entrance? Or did you overlook that too?

He is not a professional carpenter or contractor, so he wasn't in a position to fully inspect the deck when he was initially checking out the place. That's the landlord's job.

My landlord has 5 rental properties. He is also a general contractor and has a full crew, so when work is slow, he renovates his properties. The place we live in was fully renovated 2 years ago with a new deck, drywall, paint, floors, cabinets, appliances. Sure it costs money (granted less in his case), but he rents his places fast and people stay longer.

 

[crazytrain]

These type of threads make me laugh. Everyone here jumps to conclusions without knowing the whole story. The OP is working with and has a good relationship with his LL. He is not a carpenter, neither is his LL. He has to give her some time to get a good contractor and crew in to fix the deck. She like anyone else can't make that happen overnight. Sure if she drags her feet for weeks and months and does nothing, then take it a step further to get her moving on it. I hope it works out for the OP and the deck gets fixed up.

 

[diggerrick]

edit - nevermind

 

[srmofo]

Ive only seen one person suggest to stop paying the rent....just saying.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Sorry this got off on the wrong track, but it does go to show just how different Yanks and Canucks are. For many Americans - especially on a forum - it's all about confrontation, draw your guns, get a lawyer, send a nasty latter, stand your ground and all that. Litigation is the LAST thing that anyone has on their minds in Canada.

My brother lives in SD and rents out one prop. The first time there was trouble they stopped paying rent, moved to a hotel and the lawyers were called. Insurance paid out and now he's out lawyer fees, repair fees, increased insurance costs and lost rent. If a tenant stops paying rent here - for whatever reasons- they are out via the Sheriff by months end!

Not that you personally are doing that, you've said as much. In reality you'll likely find the landlord will be happy to fix it up - especially if you're a good tenant. I have 3 props myself and am continually keeping them up.

I agree, but unfortunately here you can't hardly get a non-paying renter out. In VA it is a long drawn out process.

Still, I do not believe in jumping right to confrontation and lawsuits. I had been a renter most of my adult life, with only 6 years as an owner, so I am speaking from experience when I say that most landlords try hard to keep their places suitable for renting.

Jim

 

[Burtonrider10022]

Well, I've been out of town all weekend, but I texted the landlord earlier and asked if she'd had a chance to take a look at the deck....

Tim would be her husband. (who was probably the "structural engineer" who constructed the original work of art).

I suppose I'll post pics when I get home tomorrow and see what "boards" he put up. The deck needed more than JUST that repair, obviously. I suppose then I'll need to figure out how to politely tell her that the repair isn't sufficient.

 

[wssix99]

How many code violations can you count?

Funny. I'm in a rental while my house is built and just had to brace our stairs last week in Chicago for the same issue.

Your electrical looks like an afterthought by someone who didn't know what they were doing, but the deck construction is typical of the way things used to be.

You should address with your landlord first to see what they will do. The old decks built under the old code are grandfathered until they are touched for repair. The new Chicago porch code is hard to swallow due to the stringent requirements and 200 psf design load. Porch replacement is a major undertaking for us now.

 

[Falcon67]

I agree, but unfortunately here you can't hardly get a non-paying renter out. In VA it is a long drawn out process.

Laws in the US are set strongly on the side of the renter. One reason why we no longer have rental property. A renter here can go off grid, board the door and tell you to get lost or they'll shoot and it'll take you at least 3 trips, several Return Receipt mailings and at least 90 days to get the sheriff at the door to evict. And the smart ones - plenty of those - will run it right to the end, make you pay for the deputy and vanish just before you arrive for the festivities.

As for replacing that deck - sure it's expensive but it's a repair and she can write it off against income since she is a "active participant". I would not depreciate that, personally.

 

[JakeKohl]

I like screws as well, but standard screws aren't good for shear. Nails, bolts or screws rated for shear are correct

You shouldn't design the deck components (PARTICULARLY the top of the stairs) to have it's connection fasteners in shear. Those stairs are totally wrong.

 

[wssix99]

You shouldn't design the deck components (PARTICULARLY the top of the stairs) to have it's connection fasteners in shear. Those stairs are totally wrong.

They were totally right when they were built (according to Chicago code) even if they were wrong by common sense and sound engineering practices.

Porches in Chicago are a special deal and have a long history attached to them. It was the Wild West until a few years ago - a bunch of well-to-do kids were killed during a kegger when their balcony collapsed. Now, we have to build every porch or stair strong enough to support more weight than if a deck was crammed full of champion sumo wrestlers.

The code change fixed future issues by overbuilding new or modified porches, but these legacy structures live on.

Making a code argument here probably won't go very far. The argument to make is that the porch is structurally deficient and unsafe. The first place to start is here: http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dcd/supp_info/rents_right.html

 

[Burtonrider10022]

The deck has degraded so much in just the last year alone I honestly don't think it was built that long ago. My guess was that it was built just a few years ago with non-treated wood, but like I said that's just my guess.

Also, old decks may be grandfathered in, but that cannot mean they're allowed to be neglected until they are unsafe?

EDIT: I must have skimmed your last paragraph there. My apologies.

 

[wssix99]

Also, old decks may be grandfathered in, but that cannot mean they're allowed to be neglected until they are unsafe?

True, but it has been a huge motivator for people to put it off as long as possible.

Here's the Chicago guide for porches: (It's an interesting read for folks who have done decks before.) http://www.cityofchicago.org/dam/city/depts/bldgs/general/EZPERMIT/PorchGuidelinesMay2011.pdf

They are mind-blowingly over designed. But... they will support one hell of a house party!

 

[CNGsaves]

Those stair runners are so poorly constructed, actually TERRIBLE, that you should NOT be using those stairs at all - - - those steps were just a jiggle away from someone getting a potential broken neck when the whole stair system fell down and person on stairs fell backwards onto concrete below!!!

I would guess that lag bolts (or lack thereof) are another whole problem in itself (ie very few nails in those hangers). Those stairs are so POOR, I'd put up yellow caution tape and warn any visitors to house to NOT use those stairs, or deck, UNTIL it is deemed safe.

OP put up LOTS more pics on GJ of the joist hangers and size of the support piers that hold up the whole thing. Also, pics of lag bolts and size of lumber holding the entire deck to house.

As others have said, don't just be sending text messages to landlord, send written Certified Mail Return Receipt Letter listing of extreme risk that poorly constructed deck poses to occupants and visitors to house. Set timeline of 10 to 20 days to get back written repair plan, or that you'll have to pursue getting independent quotes to repair yourself. If landlord does not act, you can likely pay qualified contractor to repair deck and legally deduct that amount from the rent. Again, if you do this, put all these activities in WRITING in Certified Letters to the landlord.

Good luck, do NOT risk using that deck until it's SAFE.

 

[allinon72]

That is beyond repair...the landlord needs to start over on that one.

But...good luck with that.

 

[polexican23]

I have just moved out of Chicago. Have lived in many o' wrigleyville slumlord properties. Technically the law stipulates that if you have made a few attempts at contacting your LL without repairs being completed, you can hire someone to fix it and submit the receipt with your rent check (minus the repairs of course). LL will fix some way to come back at you on this down the road.

My advice: Put on a full padded suit and helmet and invite a few friends over to do the same. That porch will come crashing down, sue the pants off the LL and now you can buy a house and stop renting from these people that only like to count their money.

 

[HAY YOU]

I have just moved out of Chicago. Have lived in many o' wrigleyville slumlord properties.

And yet you still chose to live there.

 

[Old Moparz]

How about the old barter method?

Landlord pays for the materials & the permit, you rebuild it & get free rent for a month or two. Or several months if it's really cheap & in a bad neighborhood....LOL

 

[srmofo]

Well, I've been out of town all weekend, but I texted the landlord earlier and asked if she'd had a chance to take a look at the deck....


Tim would be her husband. (who was probably the "structural engineer" who constructed the original work of art).

I suppose I'll post pics when I get home tomorrow and see what "boards" he put up. The deck needed more than JUST that repair, obviously. I suppose then I'll need to figure out how to politely tell her that the repair isn't sufficient.

and this is why I suggested sending a certified letter so you have written proof that they are aware the stairs/deck are unsafe.

If someone gets hurt while they drag their feet fixing things right and doing half-*** repairs, you want to be able to hold them accountable for their actions or lack there-of.

Make sure you keep taking pictures of the progress along with dates

 

[Kevin54]

Did you not look at the deck before you rented the place.
Maybe I'm missing something here. If it was something like mold in the walls or duct work, then yeah, call the building dept. Moving in and then making a fuss about a condition that was readily apparent seems like a stretch.
Requesting that repairs be made to make the deck safe seem like fair game, but you may end up without any deck, and just a set of stairs from the patio door to the yard.
It's your call about contacting the authorities, but I'm guessing the general condition of the property (deck included) factored into the rental price.

I'm with you on this one. It'll be interesting to hear how this plays out.

How many people, and I'm guessing the OP is a younger person, really take the time to decipher every little problem with a place when they rent it out, or buy. for that matter? The OP is in an upstairs apartment and he said that there are renters downstairs.

Winters, depending on how bad they are can really take a toll on things, especially ice, or wet heavy snow loads. Maybe when he looked at the deck when he looked at the apartment, it may have looked fine. If the downstairs had renters, I know that I probably wouldn't have been walking around UNDER the deck invading the other tenants space.

And I know that ones on here although they tell a person how bad they screwed up, and what they did so wrong, hasn't walked in their shoes one time or another.