Above 1200 Sq/FT The Empty Cup 40x64 Post Frame

[eastmtn]

Considering that I have lurked and sponged off of most of these forums for the past 2 years, I thought I would give back and share some knowledge on my build.

This will be a multi use post frame building, 40ft wide, 64ft deep space with 16ft eave height. There are 2 ceiling load trusses in the forward section and rafters aft to allow for a 26x28ft loft. Underneath the loft will be an enclosed shop, utility room and toilet room. The roof is a 4/12 pitch and there are additional posts under the rafters to support the future engineering of the loft.

I started looking for a contractor as soon as I took possession of the main house in the winter of 2020. I originally wanted a red iron or cold forged building but could not find an erector in my area. I then got quotes for stick built and pole barns and found that the expense, and my need to do this project in phases, steered me toward the pole barn.

The building exterior and interior work will be mostly hired out to contractors. I will keep track of ballpark costs on this thread to give an example of what things cost now a days during COVID and supply shortages.
The building is in rural Western, WA on the Olympic Peninsula. Having seen some of the costs of material and services in other parts of Canada and the US, some of you will be shocked at what I'm paying while others will think that the price is not so bad.

Either way, I hope you find entertainment, knowledge or some other combination of experience that gets you where you're going. What we take away from others experiences is a reflection of ourselves. Welcome to The Empty Cup. Come inside and let's get it filled.

 

[eastmtn]

Timeline:
11/2020 Started looking for a contractor
04/2021 Signed with the pole barn contractor
08/2021 Building permit approved by the county
08/2021 Signed with Excavating Contractor
12/2021 Site excavation finished
12/2021 Signed with interior/utilities Contractor
12/2021 Beginning of Snowpocalypse delaying building start
01/2022 Materials delivered and start of the Exterior build
02/2022 Main Structure complete. Waiting on garage doors, gutters, and concrete slab.
02/2022 Gutters installed and concrete slab poured
03/2022 Garage Doors installed. Delivery took 4 months
04/ 2022 Electrical subcontractor started work
05/2022 Electrical roughed in and electrical permit signed off for service Hook up.
06/2022 plumbing roughed in
07/2022 Electrical service energized
12/23/2022 Interior contractor work complete
01/2023 Floor stained and sealed with Single Part Polyurea



Expenses:
$2,700 Building Permit
$155,000 Pole barn exterior, slab concrete, doors, and gutters
$26,000 Excavation, ditch work, and curtain drain
$3,000 Loft permit design /engineering
$4,000 Septic, Water, and Electric trenching
$6,300 Build ramp to Garage entrance and gravel motor court
$26,400 Loft and Shop Framing, OSB walls
$ 9,600 Brick Veneer on the shop exterior walls
$ 6,700 Loft LVP Flooring
$11,000 Metal stairway, landing and loft railing
$23,000 R21 and R38 Batt Insulation for walls and ceiling
$23,000 interior liner panel for main garage area walls and ceiling
$11,000 Wood Accent rear wall. Solid hardwood
$5,000 3 Interior doors and baseboard trim
$12,500 Plumbing, toilet bidet, water heater, utility sink, pressure washer mount
$25,000 HVAC ductless/ducted combo 5 ton
$5500 Salt etch, stain and Polyurea seal concrete DIY. Legacy Industrial Products
$78,000 Electrical and low voltage comms, 200A panel, new meter, 50A manual transfer switch, 46 lights, 39 receptacles 120 and 240V, Ceiling Fan,

 

[jbrentd]

Sounds like a nice space you have in the works. I look forward to seeing updates and pics (we love pics). While those figures seem expensive, we are talking over 2500 sf. Good luck!

 

[eastmtn]

I heard you all like pictures in your reading materials. This is what I started with.

 

[Maxcustody]

Looking forward to the build!

 

[eastmtn]

I was able to offest some cost by selling the sticks. Everyday the crew had to remove and re-apply the tarp because the area previously was a secondary retention pond due to some logging that occured nearby. It was a fight to keep the site dry and we were losing to the sky and the earth beneath.

 

[eastmtn]

The excavating crew scraped the duff and removed 2-4" of mud and piled it up to get it to dry out but no joy. We decided to bring in 18" of various types of fill to lift the pad above the adjacent drainage ditch. Also put in a curtain drain around the entire site and had it outlet into the ditch. The lifting, compacting and waiting along with the rain made for a long, expensive process. But I would have rather found out about the terrain characteristics during the rainy season than to have been unprepared and found out after a dry spell ended.

 

[eastmtn]

I purchased a 3D design app on my tablet called Live Home 3D Pro. it has paid for itself several times over. I was able to draw the structure once and move between 2D plan drawings, elevations, and 3D visual drawings. I then took measurements of what I had, and what I wanted and made the building fit to my wants as well as needs. Afterwards I came up with an electrical layout, lighting plan, and materials list of everything from outlets to insulation. The photos are of a barndominium that I wanted the Empty Cup's materials to emulate. So, take out the furniture and kitchen on the main floor and put in vehicles and you'll See what I see.

 

[eastmtn]

In the winter we usually get 1 good day of snow and then it's back to rain. Well mother nature through a curve ball and it snowed for 6 days straight and stayed on the ground for weeks. the building crew was expected to show that week to start work. I would go out and push the snow off of the tarp expecting it to be the last snow and then the next morning I wake up and find all of my work undone. The other parts of the county and nearby counties werent hit as hard as us. Whenever I'd head down the ridge into the other towns I'd be amazed to not see any snow on the ground.
This inevitably delayed the suppliers from getting materials to the jobsite and delayed the crew's start date.

 

[eastmtn]

Well the first load of material showed up. The hole set crew had to use a skid steer to remove the multiple freeze thaw layers of snow and ice in order to peel the tarp back.
I setup a wireless camera and solar panel in a tree to take time lapse photos of the work being done. I apologize for some of the clarity. I ended up deleting a lot of them because a well placed raindrop or other weather affecting signal would make the pics unusable.
I'll tell you what, for a two man crew these guys move quickly and efficiently. They dug holes and set poles in the first day alone without any other motorized equipment other than that skid steer.


The next day a concrete mixer showed up to fill the holes.

 

[78SC4X4]

Subscribed. It is fascinating watching those guys work. One thing I've learned during this process is to be flexible and patient. Next up girts!

 

[eastmtn]

More progress. Rafters are up.

 

[eastmtn]

Here are a few more design plans from my Live Home3D app and a theater layout from Audioadvice.com. I wanted to be able to fit a 1 ton dually truck in each bay and a 40ft motorhome in the aft section and be able to walk around or work on each vehicle with plenty of space. I also have a couple of carbon fiber 21ft surfski's, similar to an outrigger canoe, that will be stored inside on the wall. I detail vehicles for a purposefully small list of clients. So part of the building design is to have a wash/detail bay with wall mounted warm water deionized pressure washer and auto drying system along with the other necessary tools of the trade, including a semi portable lift for undercarriage and wheel treatments. Lighting is extremely important in this building to see the true color of a vehicle and simulate high noon daylight. For defect detection I will use portable, multi color kelvin solutions. The non detailing areas will have different lighting schemes to fit their intended function.
The building will be heated and cooled via a heat pump, furnace, and a large ceiling fan. There will also be a separate meter for the building with it's own standby generator and UPS units to ensure pure sine wave delivery where needed.
The loft will be a media room/hangout area with arcade and video editing desk. Audioadvice.com has a free online theater room designer. You tell it the dimensions of your room along with your viewing preferences and size of the audio and video equipment. It then spits out a layout with distances from device to device for optimal viewing an listening.


Loft.

 

[MacTexas]

I have to follow this build, a home theatre in the garage!

 

[eastmtn]

Double Fink trusses and purlins in this post. So, there was a person at opposite posts on ladders and they each had a hand crank mounted to the pole called a winch box. I posted some example pics below courtesy of Hansen Pole Buildings.
They lifted the trusses into place by hand cranking them evenly. I've usually seen trusses lifted in to place with a truss jib or some other motorized equipment but never by hand with ladders.





These pics are from a Hansen Pole building article. From what that article says, these are a trade secret typically fabricated by those in the know.

 

[eastmtn]

The rest of the purlins are up and starting on the roof panels.



I'm trying to keep ahead of the supply chain issues with products. I ordered this wall mounted deionized warm water pressure washer setup and expect it to take up to 2 months for all of the components to arrive.

 

[eastmtn]

My 5yr old foreman and I decided to surprise the wife with a new garden.


We turned this



Into this

 

[eastmtn]

First We got rid of the trash, and prepped the back side of the slope. We then built a gabion wall with rip rap and cages that we assembled.




He had a blast in the skid steer

 

[eastmtn]

So We rented a dingo and my kid kept saying that he wanted one for Christmas.


Everyone chipped in. With blood, sweat, and, tears. We grabbed another gear when tensions got high and the going got tough.


And when the garden was complete,



We put up our feet,



And reaped what we sowed,


Ahh! Texan food for the soul

 

[Jayman17]

Your boy looks right at home in that skid steer! I like the use of a gabion retaining wall.

Jay

 

[Boostingaz]

The rest of the purlins are up and starting on the roof panels.



I'm trying to keep ahead of the supply chain issues with products. I ordered this wall mounted deionized warm water pressure washer setup and expect it to take up to 2 months for all of the components to arrive.

Is that one of the Obsessed Garage packages? I've been looking for a while and prices have really jumped, like crazy high, on some of his stuff.

 

[78SC4X4]

That was quite a project and turned out great.

Shop is looking great. They used the same pulley set up on mine as well, but I never got to see them actually in the process.

 

[eastmtn]

Your boy looks right at home in that skid steer! I like the use of a gabion retaining wall.

Jay

Thanks! When my boy battles me to get in the hole and dig, it makes me feel like he his on the right track.

 

[eastmtn]

Is that one of the Obsessed Garage packages? I've been looking for a while and prices have really jumped, like crazy high, on some of his stuff.

Yes, it’s the AR Blue Clean AR630-TSS Custom Install. It has gone up $100 since I ordered it online a week ago and who knows how much in that last year.

 

[eastmtn]

That was quite a project and turned out great.

Shop is looking great. They used the same pulley set up on mine as well, but I never got to see them actually in the process.

My wife says that I have a problem with overdoing projects. I see it as setting myself and others for success.
You were right about needing flexibility and patience. The pace has slowed on the shop and I'm spacing out posts to this thread to fill in the lulls.

 

[eastmtn]

The roof is finished and The bookshelf/ T-Girts/commercial girts are now installed along with the man door opening. The concrete slab and gutter installs are also scheduled.

 

[jbrentd]

Making good progress!

 

[eastmtn]

I've been working in the Livehome3D app again and added more of my furniture and equipment to guage floor plan flow. Below are cutaway renderings. I added my vehicles and a trailer that I want but don't have yet. I also outfitted the inner shop with my idea for an integrated wood workbench in the center.
The wife explained that once this garage is built, my two accessory sheds will be razed so that a greenhouse can take their place. This caused me to rethink and adjust for the extra items.


In the main detailing area Im playing around with the idea of a rolling workbench and cabinets that I can move into place for whichever bay I'm working in. Ceiling mounted retractable power cord reels will be between bays.


I added a couple of arcade stations in the upstairs media loft. The woman is 6'2" tall for height reference. If I added a walled in theater room then it would isolate that space and create some odd open areas near the roof. The added expense of micromanaging sound with acoustic panels and green glue also caused me to redirect my efforts into a full utilization of the loft so the roof line can be appreciated rather than hidden.

 

[zc15]

Awesome mock up! Was the greenhouse part of the original agreement?

Any thoughts on what style handrail you plan on using for the stairs?

 

[eastmtn]

Awesome mock up! Was the greenhouse part of the original agreement?

Any thoughts on what style handrail you plan on using for the stairs?

Haha! It was never in the original agreement. As soon as she saw the poles and roof go up she realized how big a 40x64 actually is and thought, hey I got him to build me a garden, why not add a greenhouse to the deal.

I'm going to get vertical rods or cable to discourage my 5yo foreman from climbing. I originally wanted a handrail with horizontal steel cable or rod balusters. The contractor reminded me that if kids are going to be up there then vertical rods would be safer. The staircase will float on a metal stringer with wood steps.

 

[eastmtn]

The house wrap is now on. So far everything is moving along at a good clip. The plumber wasn't able to get the stub outs in place before the concrete gets poured so the contractor made a box around the area so the concrete in the bathroom could be poured at a later date.

 

[78SC4X4]

Haha! It was never in the original agreement. As soon as she saw the poles and roof go up she realized how big a 40x64 actually is and thought, hey I got him to build me a garden, why not add a greenhouse to the deal.

Before I built the shop, all my stuff was crammed into the third bay of the house garage. After it went up, I was informed that I needed to get my stuff out of there because she was taking it over....

Are they going to put a moisture barrier down before concrete?

 

[eastmtn]

repost

 

[eastmtn]

Are they going to put a moisture barrier down before concrete?

Yes, there will be a vapor barrier under the concrete and 2ft wide foam R-10 insulation around the perimeter. 4" slab with fiber mesh and zip strips to give the look of one continuous slab. From what I read the zip strips are buried just below the surface of the concrete and provide controlled stress cracks like traditional joints.

 

[Pressingonward]

Build is looking great so far! Be interesting to see the zip strips in use.

 

[eastmtn]

Post #2 updated to include more expenses paid. I anticipate 8 more months of on and off contractor work before I'm able to start moving stuff in and DIY kicks in. The DIY portion is where it gets fun. I'll try and keep the thread going as the garage evolves.

 

[kj_mustang]

Love the build and that brisket looked pretty good too. Man, prices sure have gone up over the last few years. Your building is a little bigger than mine but is costing you over twice as much as I paid.

 

[Homebody]

Great looking project!!

 

[eastmtn]

Love the build and that brisket looked pretty good too. Man, prices sure have gone up over the last few years. Your building is a little bigger than mine but is costing you over twice as much as I paid.

Thanks for stopping by. I'm enjoying the build and learning a heap even though I'm in a coordinating role vs hands on like others on the forum.
The brisket was smoked with cherry splits and mesquite lump on a stick burner. I'm taking advantage of all the cherry wood around me and like the color of the bark on the meat.

Every check I sign is a jagged little pill to swallow, knowing what I could have paid 3 yrs ago. What's convincing me to build now vs a wait and see approach is base on 2 observations.
1) I'm getting older everyday and tomorrow isn't promised. 2) I believe that the price hikes we've seen in everyday goods and services and the real estate market are a new baseline for future bubbles. If I'm wrong then I look forward to paying the cheaper costs. If I'm right then I'm prepared to capitalize on the current state of events.

 

[eastmtn]

If you're keeping track of post #2 then you'll notice that I signed an agreement with a 2nd contractor in 2021DEC for the company to put in the utilities, and interior finish work.

The company ran into a snag where 2 trusted design/engineers weren't able to take on the job of designing the loft for the county permit. The contractor has a jack of all trades git R dun type foreman on board. After several months of delays he has offered to design and engineer the loft.
I can't stress enough the importance of hiring out work to companies that understand what you want to accomplish and have the knowledge and fortitude to make it happen or explain why an alternative process could be your huckleberry. I called or met with many contractors for my project. Some were more expensive, some were cheaper, some were too busy, and some looked at me like frozen catch for their tuna canning facility. So far the 3 general contractors I'm working with have shown up when they said they would, come in under the agreed upon price or explained upfront before the price was increased. They have also taught me about their trades to make me a better informed consumer. I am thankful that they have filled my cup with the good stuff.