The Facom Tools Thread.

[Etchase]

I know nothing about Facom, so I have to ask -

Is this Facom set actually by Facom, or is it just a cheaper set that has the Facom branding?



I ask because I just purchased a similarly made tool kit that was recommended to me just to have, a Craftsman V Series.

Just arrived today.



The box layout is identical, including even the nametag on the left corner there.

The ratchets are different. Seems to be a Stanley exclusive product.

 

[KwikFab]

The ratchets are different. Seems to be a Stanley exclusive product.

Yep the ratchet itself seemed different both with it's shape as well as the lack of easy socket release.



But here's the box and all it's pieces. You can see it's identical to the picture I posted with it (except these are 6 point metric).



I will say, I've never had locking extensions and they seem prety nice.

 

[F-22]

Yep the ratchet itself seemed different both with it's shape as well as the lack of easy socket release.



But here's the box and all it's pieces. You can see it's identical to the picture I posted with it (except these are 6 point metric).



I will say, I've never had locking extensions and they seem prety nice.

Craftsman V Series comonly resells Facom stuff. Some of it may be different though - like the ratchet, maybe even the sockets. Hard to know exactly what without having them side by side. The cases seem to be identical. It is possible everything is identical too, I am sure Facom offers a pear head ratchet with no quick release too... Or maybe branded under USAG.

 

[Squankum]

I know nothing about Facom, so I have to ask -

Is this Facom set actually by Facom, or is it just a cheaper set that has the Facom branding?



I ask because I just purchased a similarly made tool kit that was recommended to me just to have, a Craftsman V Series.

Just arrived today.



The box layout is identical, including even the nametag on the left corner there.

Somebody else here will know better about that ratchet. I'm guessing the ratchet is made in Taiwan but is not FACOM. I'm guessing the sockets and extensions are FACOM, made in Taiwan.

To take a gander at what FACOM is selling lately, one place is the website of the American importer, Ultimate Garage.

Ratchets & Drivers, Ultimate Garage

ebay for the UK has a lot of FACOM tools listed, too. And of course, Amazon, US and UK.

Stanley Black & Decker bought up FACOM in 2006. You can see FACOM designs sold under FACOM, USAG, Stanley, and for a brief period now ending, Craftsman V Series. Some FACOM is still made in France, like the Torxdrivers I recently bought. (Craftsman V series but made in France with FACOM style handles with minor differences = FACOM.) A lot of FACOM is now their designs, made in Taiwan with FACOM's oversight, I'm sure, for nobody has any complaints about the quality. Just like nobody has any complaints about the rest of the tools made in Taiwan anymore, they do good work and the prices are nice. I never heard anybody complaining about the Camaros that were made in Canada as not being real Camaros...

That container where you can verify the presence of each tool inside, when it's closed, and the long extension being the handle, is a long FACOM tradition, I think even back in the days of metal cases. I'm certain that's a FACOM case (with Cman markings.)

For Christmas this year I'm getting some friends some USAG and Stanley screwdrivers that I'm fairly certain are FACOM but at better prices. I may or may not have pics of the Stanleys. I'll be doing posts/pics/links when those gifts arrive.

OH, and locking extensions are awesome! That's what I reach for first, why lose a socket and have to search for it? I first discovered them with a 3/8" dr. 4 pc. set at Harbor Freight, and those are still what I use the most. My only warning with the HF extensions is that the tiny set screws might want to fly and be free, so give them a tiny dot of Loctite.

 

[Dave455]

Just to clarify the issue of the ratchet’s..

When Facom started outsourcing many of it’s tools to Taiwan, it didn’t do so with a lot of the ratchets.

The reason may have been that they had only recently switched production from France to Italy.

However, when SBD wanted to offer essentially the same tools under all their other brand names, I strongly suspect that the ratchet’s were a big part of the cost.

Consequently you found many sets that were very similar to their Facom equivalents, but differed in the ratchet supplied. I see no reason to maintain this now that many Facom ratchets are Taiwan made, but they do.

In 3/8 drive, Facom offer 5 or 6 different ratchets in their “detection” sets. The quick release version is generally supplied with the locking extensions, which is a nice tool.

Personally, I would be powerfully tempted by the extendable ratchet shown by Squankum - lot of capability for a small box - though I admit that one of my personal gripes is sets that include big sockets, but not any sort of handle that gives enough leverage to turn them!

 

[mikey03]

I’d really appreciate if this thread stopped being bumped or I’m going to wind up ordering those falcom L-wrenches that our european friends like so much

 

[KwikFab]

It's why I posted here - holy **** that's a ton of information and great to know.

The set was only $40 as it was either on clearance or just on sale down from the original $149 price tag.

I have Milwaukee, Craftsman (the made in USA stuff), Harbor Freight Icon and more and was wondering if I should've even bothered or not since I'm not familiar with both Craftsman V Series or Facom.

 

[Squankum]

Just to clarify the issue of the ratchet’s..

When Facom started outsourcing many of it’s tools to Taiwan, it didn’t do so with a lot of the ratchets.

The reason may have been that they had only recently switched production from France to Italy.

However, when SBD wanted to offer essentially the same tools under all their other brand names, I strongly suspect that the ratchet’s were a big part of the cost.

Consequently you found many sets that were very similar to their Facom equivalents, but differed in the ratchet supplied. I see no reason to maintain this now that many Facom ratchets are Taiwan made, but they do.

In 3/8 drive, Facom offer 5 or 6 different ratchets in their “detection” sets. The quick release version is generally supplied with the locking extensions, which is a nice tool.

Personally, I would be powerfully tempted by the extendable ratchet shown by Squankum - lot of capability for a small box - though I admit that one of my personal gripes is sets that include big sockets, but not any sort of handle that gives enough leverage to turn them!

Searching for pics of old metal "detector" FACOM boxes today, I could have sworn I saw a set that did have the extendy ratchet in it. Can't find it now. I agree, there are some odd beliefs about what it takes to get nuts off of things in real life. For assembly lines, sure, no problem. The real world of moisture, dirt, and salt? I believe it was Archimedes who said, "Go get me the 24 incher."

 

[drtyler]

Searching for pics of old metal "detector" FACOM boxes today, I could have sworn I saw a set that did have the extendy ratchet in it. Can't find it now. I agree, there are some odd beliefs about what it takes to get nuts off of things in real life. For assembly lines, sure, no problem. The real world of moisture, dirt, and salt? I believe it was Archimedes who said, "Go get me the 24 incher."

JXL.DBOX

 

[Squankum]

JXL.DBOX

Ahhhh. My searches a few minutes ago, I was limited to 1/2" dr., which you'd think they'd also do that for, since they make an extendy 1/2" dr. ratchet.

 

[Steve_P]

I'll ask the obvious question: Is there an actual Facom factory in Taiwan, or are they just contracting it out like Tekton, etc? And it doesn't matter to me, but my point is that the difference between slightly different Craftsman and Facom ratchets, both made in the same factory, isn't that one was made by "Facom".

 

[Etchase]

The Craftsman v-Series ratchets are exclusive to the Craftsman brand , but certainly based on the Facom design and fabrication. These ultra-high tooth count ratchets, seem to only be popular in the US. The Craftsman seem to have a very high failure torque, and a positive feel. I wonder if the warranty rate is lower, when the user can’t take them apart? I’m impressed that the manufacturing yields are so high they can eliminate on the line repair. Basically another Stanley product to choose from. The Facom ratchets fit perfectly into the Craftsman case. Stanley has factories in Taiwan, but closed their original one they purchased in the 80’s just this year. What’s Facom, Stanley, Proto, Mac, B&D,…really loses meaning after so many years of integration. Facom had stoped ratchet production in France before Stanley acquired them.

 

[drtyler]

Ahhhh. My searches a few minutes ago, I was limited to 1/2" dr., which you'd think they'd also do that for, since they make an extendy 1/2" dr. ratchet.

SXL.DBOX1

SXL.DBOX3

Those are the 1/2” drive set part numbers, one with each type of 1/2” drive extendable ratchet.

 

[drtyler]

I'll ask the obvious question: Is there an actual Facom factory in Taiwan, or are they just contracting it out like Tekton, etc? And it doesn't matter to me, but my point is that the difference between slightly different Craftsman and Facom ratchets, both made in the same factory, isn't that one was made by "Facom".

Stanley Black & Decker has a manufacturing facility in Taiwan. But what tools are made there?

The Facom 440 and 440 variants are made by Te Wei / Rotar / Toptul.

Tools from the old world

So why make a stupidly strong open end and then sell your spanner in a short pattern when in mose cases, in everyday use, there is no physical way to make use of all the strength? Facom seems that always made short wrenches, the 40 series is even shorter than newer 440 series.

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Etchase]

I would be surprised if Stanley didn’t move forging, finishing, and packaging around internally and to contractors throughout the Taiwan network depending on capacity utilization at any given time over the years.

 

[four.cycle]

there are hundreds of tiny tool makers in Taiwan. outsourcing is a way of life there.

 

[terrific]

Do they at least still make those funky pipe/socket wrenches (e.g. 75.10) in France?

 

[Etchase]

It changes, but those might be the Czech Republic. Lots of screwdrivers and pliers made in France. Lots of ratchets made in Italy. Wrenches also, I think. They are all top quality.

 

[Dave455]

Do they at least still make those funky pipe/socket wrenches (e.g. 75.10) in France?

Sadly not.

They haven’t done so for some time.

The current ones are made in Taiwan, but as has been commented before, they do seem to be able to keep the quality quite high.

The top wrench is an older French made tool, the bottom one a newer Taiwan made. Aside from slight differences in the finishing, they appear very similar.


If you did prefer French made, then the last time I checked, the SAM versions of this tool were. I think the pattern might be slightly nicer too, although the availability of Facom has traditionally been better.


Edit - I originally posted a link here, where I thought you could buy these, but it looks like it’s only for their trade customers. If anybody knows of a good SAM supplier, please add the details below.

SAM do seem to offer a few very high quality / unique tools. Not all of them fall into this category (I suspect due to their contract work) but a lot do. These little ratchet’s are an example.


I might have to do some “in depth investigation” of this…. if finances allow!

 

[terrific]

If you did prefer French made, then the last time I checked, the SAM versions of this tool were. I think the pattern might be slightly nicer too, although the availability of Facom has traditionally been better.

I saw one of the SAM wrenches at a factory sometime within the last year. I thought it was a rebadged Facom at the time. I wonder how it got there. They don't seem to be for sale, short of traveling to France.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Funny that widget would come up. I've been waffling on making a purchase of those on ebay.
When I just looked at the two on my "watch list" and put one in my "cart", another window popped open announcing "More Options for You"
No doubt made in Taiwan or PRC, but for the money, I think I'll try an 8 and a 10 and see how it goes.

(I'm cruising through that page right now.. you'd think one of them would offer a set, no?)

< edit 08:38 PST > There are sets: search "L Shaped Angled Hex Socket Wrench Set" - prices are all over the place. Looks like most of them ship direct form China PRC.

 

[Reed Prince]

SXL.DBOX1

SXL.DBOX3

Those are the 1/2” drive set part numbers, one with each type of 1/2” drive extendable ratchet.

 

[richfinn]

There's so much to like about that kit, great ratchet and a well thought out storage solution, Facom are still one of my favourite tool companies for their design approach

 

[Dave455]

As a kid, I did a lot of repairs with my Dad. We probably all did.

He always seemed to be able to do a lot, with relatively little, but only later did I realise his choices were far from random.

He had just two boxes in the car, one of them an old British army tool bag with a 3/8 set in it’s own box. That bag wasn’t big, and the only reason it all fitted, was that Britool used to organise their sets really well. Here it is.


The box is designed to fit round the tools needed, so it's no bigger than needed. The tools don’t move around much, so you don’t need a foam liner. And it’s all solid enough not to break or get dented.

Although having similar needs myself, by the time I was buying tools , sets of this quality were not available. Most had thin steel boxes with plastic liners, then over time we ended up with very generic boxes and those awful foam liners, most of which seemed designed to fill up space.

I think it was the mid to late 90’s when Facom started producing their ”Nano” sets. (It may be more than coincidence that it was just after their buyout of Britool). I was instantly a fan. It seemed to me that this was the first time in ages that somebody (and I don’t know who) had really thought about the boxes, and how they are not just “packing” but affect how you use the tools.

Although others have now attempted similar, I still think the Facom are the best thought out.


It seems to me, that the compact sets in the detection boxes are really the modern equivalent of Dad’s 3/8 set, and incredibly practical.

Now, if they’d just ditch the plastic, and source some high quality steel boxes from Langenau in Cleveland, U.S.A (which I’m pretty certain is where Britool got theirs) they might tempt me to buy yet another socket set…

 

[Dave455]

For the sake of completion, here’s the 3/8” drive set with the extendable ratchet.

 

[four.cycle]

Although others have now attempted similar, I still think the Facom are the best thought out.

I am seeing something of a trend going in that direction. This example isn't utilizing all of the space as efficiently as your "Facom" sample above, but it's a far cry from what you would have seen in years past.

 

[Squankum]

More screwdrivers I'm buying for semihandy friends who need good tools but don't know it!

Stanley Fat Max, actually made in FRONCE at the FACOM EDIT: Bost screwdriver factory. Eight sizes -- with Phillips 0, 1, and 2.
$42ish on Amazon, shipped out of TN. (Or, showing $40ish right now for me. You know how prices drift with Spaceman Bezos.)

Black section of grips about as grippy as Wiha screwdriver handles, which is to say, quite grippy. (Sub Snap On pliers grips which are almost sticky.) Big fat shape of the larger ones fits nicely in the hand.






Linky:

Amazon.com

P.S. STANLEY!

 

[Dave455]

More screwdrivers I'm buying for semihandy friends who need good tools but don't know it!

Stanley Fat Max, actually made in FRONCE at the FACOM screwdriver factory. Eight sizes -- with Phillips 0, 1, and 2.
$42ish on Amazon, shipped out of TN. (Or, showing $40ish right now for me. You know how prices drift with Spaceman Bezos.)

Black section of grips about as grippy as Wiha screwdriver handles, which is to say, quite grippy. (Sub Snap On pliers grips which are almost sticky.) Big fat shape of the larger ones fits nicely in the hand.






Linky:

Amazon.com

P.S. STANLEY!

Those are basically Bost drivers.

They’re not rubbish, but not top end either.

Certainly not the quality of traditional Facom.

No longer sold under the Bost name, you find them branded “Stanley”, or “Expert”, SBD’s budget brand.

 

[Squankum]

Those are basically Bost drivers.

They’re not rubbish, but not top end either.

Certainly not the quality of traditional Facom.

No longer sold under the Bost name, you find them branded “Stanley”, or “Expert”, SBD’s budget brand.

Ah. I was wondering. Thank you.

But FACOM did buy Bost, right?

 

[four.cycle]

that would appear to be the case, and then Stanley acquired Facom

 

[Dave455]

Ah. I was wondering. Thank you.

But FACOM did buy Bost, right?

I struggle to remember who bought who first now, but if I recall correctly, Facom bought Bost prior to being bought themselves by SBD.

Someone told me that some of Facom’s forging facilities were very dated, so it might be that their purchase of the (presumably more modern) Bost site was quite sensible.

SBD closed down a couple of Facom’s forging facilities, but kept some, kept the Bost site, and the relatively new USAG site in Gemonio where Facom ratchet’s were already being made.

 

[Dave455]

I actually know the Gemonio site. Nice location, not far from Lake Maggiore. Looks like the sort of place you would make watch movements not hand tools.

Facom still has a lot of manufacturing in France though, spread over several sites.

 

[KnurledNut]

SBD has three factories in France: Arbois, Besançon and Feuquières.
@Squankum Stanley screwdrivers are made in the Arbois factory, as are Facom, USAG, Expert, some Sidchrome, etc.
In 1935, Garnache Chiquet established itself in Arbois, and became known as a screwdriver manufacturer. At this same time, Bost was manufacturing pliers, pincers, hammers, etc in Laissey. In 1973, Facom and Peugeot Outillage acquired stakes in the Bost capital and by 1977 became the majority shareholder with 73% capital. By now Bost was the 9th largest European manufacturer of pliers. In 1982, with Peugeot facing serious financial problems, Facom took control of Bost and Garnache Chiquet, with 99% of the capital. By 1985 Bost was among the five largest plier manufacturers in the world. In 1990 Bost merged with Garnache becoming BGI, with the trademark EgaBost. In 1995, the Laissey site became Facoms dedicated center for 1000v insulated tool production. In 1996, due to trademark problems, EgaBost was abandoned and replaced with simply “Bost”. 1999, Fimalac became the majority shareholder of Facom. In 2006, Facom was bought by the American Stanley Group. Finally, in 2010, Stanley absorbed the giant Black & Decker, and became Stanley Black & Decker. By 2013, the Bost brand began phasing out and was no more by 2016, the end of 125 years of existence. 2017-2018 what was left of the the Laissey operations, production tooling and equipment was moved to Besançon. In 2019, SBD began partial demolition of the original Bost factory.

 

[Squankum]

Almost-FACOM French tool report:

Another set of screwdrivers purchased for a friend for Christmas. I actually started with this one, later realized it had no Phillips 0. It has Ph. 1 & 2, the rest, slot head screwdrivers.

Amazon, $31ish.

Amazon.com

Made in France by a bitter old Bost employee who refuses to sit with the new FACOM employees in the break room and don't get him started on those Stanley kids.







A nice guide to the different sets of drivers available from USAG. Good marketing!



A comparison to the fattest Euro handles in my fleet. FACOM/Craftsman V series, USAG, Wiha. Again, the red part of the USAG grip is just as grippy as the black Wiha handles. I've used the FACOM/CMan Torx driver on one job now and love the skinny/fat/skinny contouring for different needs during a job. Just wish it was soft/sticky/grippy.

 

[KnurledNut]

I’ve waited over a year and 12 pages for someone to bust out some Facom-era SK!

 

[Etchase]

Some electrician’s scissors and one of those “French” shaped hammers.

 

[brutus22]

Greetings

Somebody using Facom ratchets 360. Some positive or negative opinions?
I saw one 1/2" in good price.

 

[Dave455]

Greetings

Somebody using Facom ratchets 360. Some positive or negative opinions?
I saw one 1/2" in good price.

I don’t have any of the ratchet’s but I do have the bit driver.

An incredibly clever design, and really nicely made.

I thought I would use the bit driver more than the ratchet’s, but even then there are relatively few applications where it’s useful. When it is useful however, it’s invaluable!

 

[F-22]

 

[Qualitytools]

Very Cool, none of them appear to be Philips or otherwise, all straight blade of various lengths and width.