The five SO pliars I bought from ericedelman

[Steve1968LS2]

There was some mix-up in the thread where Eric was selling some tools. It got a bit heated and some threw out the "Well, he's a low post count seller, I hope it's not a scam" sort of deal.

I would just like to say that the five SO and BP pliars I bought off him arrived today and they are just as advertised. I was sort of shocked since I only Paypal'd him the money a couple of days ago and they showed up in CA to from New York. I still don't get how they left NY on Saturday the 13th and got here Monday the 15th but they did.

Also, some complained about the flat rate of $10 he charged. Well according to the box shipping was $10.45.

Anyways, the other thread was closed and just wanted to set the record straight and give Eric a gold star.

 

[Bolster]

That's nice that you got your five pliers, I'm glad for you. It seems that in your case a flat-rate box made sense. Again, good for you.

I'm the guy who asked Eric (after he PM'd me saying he would sell me a single plier for $20) if he could ship the item (6 oz) by first class or flat rate envelope ... ie, $3 or $5, as opposed to $10. I never heard back from him. Next I know, he impugned me on this forum as being unreasonable. Since I didn't think my question was unreasonable, I responded.

How asking got morphed into being unreasonable and then morphed again into complaining is a mystery to me, but I find it a little irritating.

Like you, I just wanted to set the record straight. I'll bet the rest of the forum is getting tired of hearing about it, and I know the moderators are.

I'm willing to drop it, if everyone else is.

 

[Steve1968LS2]

I wasn't here to bring any of that drama up.. just wanted to say Eric came though on the sale since some threw it out there that he may not.

Take from it what you want ... :shrug:

 

[Bolster]

OK, roger that. Thanks for the follow up.

 

[fourfeathers]

(Slinks in quietly.) my tools arrived too, and as described. (leaves slowly)

 

[Stuey]

I read the thread in question, and it doesn't leave me with good impressions about eric at all. He has made 16 posts, with only the first 6 being anything of substance and the rest being him trying to sell something or defending his actions.

Steve, thanks for the follow-up! Now, let's see if Eric becomes a contributing forum member, or if he will just use the forum when he wants to sell some tools.

 

[kwhitelaw]

or if he will just use the forum when he wants to sell some tools.

honestly, is that really a bad thing?? He came here and sold some good tools at what looks to be some very good prices. Sure, he could have used a little better judgment during the "holding" process for the tools, but thats beside the point. He came through (it appears) with delivering said tools in an extremely timely manner.

I dont personally agree with "dibs" on things. Ive had many people over the years of me selling online tell me they will buy it in 3 days etc etc etc, only to never contact me again..., forcing me to go back through emails and find who was "next in line"... If you can type a message saying "dibs", you should easily be able able to paypal at that time or atleast come to an agreement with the seller. Some guys on here acted like a 5 year old who had his toy taking away on the playground.. they are friggin tools. more will come along just like them tomorrow.


kevin

 

[wrenchr]

honestly, is that really a bad thing?? He came here and sold some good tools at what looks to be some very good prices. Sure, he could have used a little better judgment during the "holding" process for the tools, but thats beside the point. He came through (it appears) with delivering said tools in an extremely timely manner.

I dont personally agree with "dibs" on things. Ive had many people over the years of me selling online tell me they will buy it in 3 days etc etc etc, only to never contact me again..., forcing me to go back through emails and find who was "next in line"... If you can type a message saying "dibs", you should easily be able able to paypal at that time or atleast come to an agreement with the seller. Some guys on here acted like a 5 year old who had his toy taking away on the playground.. they are friggin tools. more will come along just like them tomorrow.


kevin

Very good point.

 

[Steve1968LS2]

I read the thread in question, and it doesn't leave me with good impressions about eric at all. He has made 16 posts, with only the first 6 being anything of substance and the rest being him trying to sell something or defending his actions.

Steve, thanks for the follow-up! Now, let's see if Eric becomes a contributing forum member, or if he will just use the forum when he wants to sell some tools.

Isn't coming here and selling us quality tools at good prices "contributing" to the site?

I belong to quite a few boards... some I have 12,000 posts at and others I mostly read. I really don't get the fixation on post count.

He offers stuff people here want at fair prices and he follows through on his sale. Sounds like a win/win to me.

Then again, what do I know.

 

[Bolster]

Maybe it would be appropriate to open a different thread where a discussion can occur about whether some seniority should be built up, before people can sell here.

 

[v8garage]

I didn't read the thread mentioned and I don't know who Eric is but I will say this: In my dealings with Bolster he is straight up and and as honest as they come.

 

[ericedelman]

I offered to give you the pliers for free and ship them for free as well, all in the holiday spirit. Yes, I did request you post your charitable contribution afterwards, but I certainly wouldn't have held you to it.

I'm not sure what else I can do here to make amends?

Eric Edelman

That's nice that you got your five pliers, I'm glad for you. It seems that in your case a flat-rate box made sense. Again, good for you.

I'm the guy who asked Eric (after he PM'd me saying he would sell me a single plier for $20) if he could ship the item (6 oz) by first class or flat rate envelope ... ie, $3 or $5, as opposed to $10. I never heard back from him. Next I know, he impugned me on this forum as being unreasonable. Since I didn't think my question was unreasonable, I responded.

How asking got morphed into being unreasonable and then morphed again into complaining is a mystery to me, but I find it a little irritating.

Like you, I just wanted to set the record straight. I'll bet the rest of the forum is getting tired of hearing about it, and I know the moderators are.

I'm willing to drop it, if everyone else is.

 

[Stuey]

I'm not sure what else I can do here to make amends?

I wouldn't worry too much about it - things like this are usually forgotten about in a week or so.

I mentioned that your classified thread doesn't leave me with the best impressions of you, but I've eased up in light of your response here.

 

[kwhitelaw]

Maybe it would be appropriate to open a different thread where a discussion can occur about whether some seniority should be built up, before people can sell here.

A few sites I belong to do that with good success. Yes, it cuts down on deals like the ones Eric posted about, but you can fight it out on ebay like the rest of the world... everyone would have just paid double or triple what eric offered..

The way I see it, isolated incident. Simple guidelines at the top of the classifieds section could prevent any misundestanding in the future...

Unrelated, but I still feel a dedicated, stickied thread for just links to members ebay auctions would work best. Sure, offering items here first is best in the spirit of website, but honestly, sometimes, I want to make more money then I may be offered here.

kevin

 

[Bull]

Members should NOT need a post count minimum to sell tools here IF they are proven to be honest and legitimate sellers, as this gentleman appears to be.

Selling quality tools at decent prices IS a way of contributing to the board. I don't want to miss out on tool deals just because someone can't post until they go and do a lot of talking in the supposedly important parts of the site.

Seems the only negatives this guy is getting so far are from people who are upset they didn't get the tools they wanted because someone else paid first. Although I can understand that might be disappointing, it does not show that he's a dishonest seller. Did anyone lose any money? Doesn't look like it....

 

[Rigmaster]

well said Bull.

I think everyone needs to relax for a minute, I'm sure everyone would have worked this out by now if the deals were done face to face.

 

[66L78]

Guy sells a bunch a quality tools at rock bottom prices, tries to handle the onslaught of emails the best he could, then he gets drug thru the mud for a while, geez guys lighten up, have you ever had 7 or 8 items on ebay and everything ends at the same time, gets pretty wild with all the emails, I would say he might get a little more organized next time but it sounds like a couple guys want his first born, just my .02 Chuck

 

[Steve1968LS2]

I offered to give you the pliers for free and ship them for free as well, all in the holiday spirit. Yes, I did request you post your charitable contribution afterwards, but I certainly wouldn't have held you to it.

I'm not sure what else I can do here to make amends?

Eric Edelman

I wouldn't sweat it... you already went beyond with that offer. Anyways, you're good in my book. Hope you post more stuff for sale soon (although my wallet doesn't hope so. lol)

Thanks again for the quick ship, have already used the nippers.

 

[rockvr4]

(Slinks in quietly.) my tools arrived too, and as described. (leaves slowly)

Mine too. Better then described. He threw in a wrench roll.

 

[LoneGunman]

I wasn't here to bring any of that drama up.. just wanted to say Eric came though on the sale since some threw it out there that he may not.

Take from it what you want ... :shrug:

But you did as soon as you said someone complained about the shipping and that it was over the $10 cost on ALL the pliers when only one plier was asked for. So Bolster had to correct your WRONG information, so thank yourself for starting the whole thing over again when as others have said, it was already forgotten about.

Threads are usually closed for a reason and to start a new thread on the same subject is usually a very bad idea. If you are happy with your merchandise a simple "I have received my stuff and Eric's a good guy" would have been the smart thing to say.

 

[Bolster]

I offered to give you the pliers for free and ship them for free as well, all in the holiday spirit. Yes, I did request you post your charitable contribution afterwards, but I certainly wouldn't have held you to it. I'm not sure what else I can do here to make amends? --Eric Edelman

Eric, thanks for the gesture, very kind of you. I'm not out any money. And happy holidays to you, too.

As I have been contemplating this thread, I think I know where the real problem lies.

The bigger problem lies with a wide-open, ill-defined, anything-goes selling policy. Like many of you, I frequent more than one forum. Of all the forums (forii?) I visit, this one has the least defined policies for selling. The guidelines are very sparse. It's sort of the wild frontier of commerce. The main rules are:

(1) Don't deal with scam artists.
(2) Don't carp about people's prices. (A rule more honored in the breach, than in the observance.)
(3) Don't be fraudulent with your descriptions.
(4) You're on your own, sucker, if your deal goes sour it's your problem not ours..

In fact, I recently ran a poll to see whether or not I should advertise eBay sales here. Saw it done here a fair amount, but discovered through the poll that a big majority really dislike it. So I stopped.

It occurred to me, on reflection, that Eric didn't break any of the guidelines of selling on this forum. (Read the four rules above; he didn't do any of those things.) He just broke a number of rules of what you'd find on most other forums.

Many forums: disallow multiple threads for a single sale; promote a clearly stated 'dibs' rule with an expiration period (you have to follow up with the 'dibs' in the order they appear and they time out if a sale isn't made); promote rules that say you can't remove for sale items once they have sold (you are asked to simply add the word 'sold' in them); having rules that you can't remove the price after it is sold; rules that you have to have 50 posts before selling; guidelines that encourage giving feedback; rules that you must add SOLD to the header when all items are sold (so people aren't wasting their time clicking through all-sold sales...wow wouldn't I like that rule enacted here!); and so on.

Now, perhaps all y'all LIKE the way the rules are looser and not specified here. That's fine, I can handle that, there's some good points to fewer rules as well.

But don't be surprised when problems arise, when everybody's operating from a different rule book. In the absence of clear guidelines, there's lots more misunderstandings and wrangling, particularly dangerous for folks that don't have big post counts.

PS: Thanks to the mods for not shutting down this thread...we may actually get somewhere productive with it!

 

[Bull]

But don't be surprised when problems arise, when everybody's operating from a different rule book.

Too many rules can be just as bad as too few.

What problems have arisen from this example, which is the one that has got you thinking about the system here? The only problem appears to be that many people wanted what only one could buy, and that one got his wallet out quicker.

I think that's a slim margin by which to deem a site in need of more regulation. We seem to have a good group of buyers AND sellers in here, for the most part.

 

[bmwpower]

The only problem appears to be that many people wanted what only one could buy, and that one got his wallet out quicker....

So that's how it went down, eh?

 

[Stuey]

I too think that the rules are a bit too lenient and that the classified needs more moderation.

There's a guy - a Wurth dealer, posting professional advertisements trying to sell drill bits in the classified. I try to sit on my fingers and not type guess what, Triumph Trinado bits are cheaper that what this retailer is trying to sell, which could very well just be rebadged Trinados, but I don't. I mod-alerted the thread, which is just about all that we can and should do.

There are other instances of price and ethics discussions in the classified, and for the most part I try to stay out of those, or in some cases help the seller out by posting facts while keeping opinions to myself.

It seems that this whole incident is the result of flawed planning, and NOT ill-intent.

It looks as if Eric is sincerely sorry about all this, and imho we should all just move on.

 

[Bull]

So that's how it went down, eh?

I constructed my sentence around the word "appears" in order to show that I am an observer, not a participant.

 

[Bolster]

Too many rules can be just as bad as too few.

I agree, they need to be the right rules. Do we have that?

The only problem appears to be that many people wanted what only one could buy, and that one got his wallet out quicker.

No, that's overly simplified, competition was only one of several problems that occurred. For example, nobody else wanted the item I wanted. Go back and study the threads, you will find multiple things going 'wrong' (relatively speaking).

It's a tempest in a teapot, but I think a better system and a few clear rules could have made a lot of objections fade away.

I'm more interested in figuring out how future sales could be made more smoothly.

 

[Bull]

Fair enough.

 

[LoneGunman]

I too think that the rules are a bit too lenient and that the classified needs more moderation.

There's a guy - a Wurth dealer, posting professional advertisements trying to sell drill bits in the classified. I try to sit on my fingers and not type guess what, Triumph Trinado bits are cheaper that what this retailer is trying to sell, which could very well just be rebadged Trinados, but I don't. I mod-alerted the thread, which is just about all that we can and should do.

There are other instances of price and ethics discussions in the classified, and for the most part I try to stay out of those, or in some cases help the seller out by posting facts while keeping opinions to myself.

It seems that this whole incident is the result of flawed planning, and NOT ill-intent.

It looks as if Eric is sincerely sorry about all this, and imho we should all just move on.

Some of the sites I frequent use the minimum post count rule to stop the commercial ads, the guys trying to move their goods as a business are probably not going to have or ever get the required posts and if they do that's fine because that means they actually contributed something and not just took.

 

[Bull]

Some of the sites I frequent use the minimum post count rule to stop the commercial ads, the guys trying to move their goods as a business are probably not going to have or ever get the required posts and if they do that's fine because that means they actually contributed something and not just took.

Is selling a part a way of just taking from the board?

I'd like to leave this thread, but I can't. I love browsing and shopping on here. So, I'm invested in the system.

I just bought some nice SK stuff from a guy on here who does not "contribute" to the board in the sense of gabbing with people about garages. He made money, I got a deal on tools. So, he contributed to the site just fine by being a good seller even if a non-poster!

 

[kwhitelaw]

Some of the sites I frequent use the minimum post count rule to stop the commercial ads, the guys trying to move their goods as a business are probably not going to have or ever get the required posts and if they do that's fine because that means they actually contributed something and not just took.

while I agree, it wouldnt take much to reach most minimum post count's before eligibility to post classifieds..

honestly, I see it as quite simple. Any ebay ads get posted in 1 specific thread that can be deleted and updated at the beginning of each month. Any non ebay ads require, at a minimum, 1 picture showing item for sale. From there, whether "dibs" can be called or first one to the table with the money should be decided by the seller.

kevin

 

[Bull]

honestly, I see it as quite simple. Any ebay ads get posted in 1 specific thread that can be deleted and updated at the beginning of each month. Any non ebay ads require, at a minimum, 1 picture showing item for sale. From there, whether "dibs" can be called or first one to the table with the money should be decided by the seller.
kevin

Bam. That's the best system, right there.

 

[LoneGunman]

"I just bought some nice SK stuff from a guy "

Key words quoted, I responded to Stuey's post about a BUSINESS not just a guy selling his extras, night and day difference. If it's not regulated it turns into posts and posts and posts of commercial entities trying to sell their merchandise. Again, most large successful boards that offer a classified section either have minimum post count rules or they do not allow commercial postings unless a fee is paid. Why should a commercial entity be entitled to sell their merchandise on here, free of charge and make a profit while the owners of this site pay for all the bandwidth and other related fees?

Minimum post counts also stops MOST of the scams out there, I don't know how many sites you frequent but there are many sites where the members have been taken by low or no post count for sale ads. Obviously people have also been taken by senior members.

A minimum post count requirement kills two birds with one stone, you stop the commercial posts before they get out of hand and you also weed out a good percentage of scam artists. As Stuey also mentioned, most sites also have rules about starting 10 posts to sell 10 items and about bumping. Any large board has to have some sort of guidlines to keep the peace.

As was said by others, this has nothing to do with Erics classified ad now, that's over and done with.

 

[Bull]

I agree that businesses should be regulated in here.

This thread started about a guy, and Bolster's thinking about the classifieds and how they work apparently was triggered by this private party sale. So, I'm not sure that everyone is talking about business regulation, as you say. I sure wasn't talking about it.

How many sites am I on? Well, I'm not sure that matters, but this is the only one for tools. I'm on a good dozen or so for cars, and buy and sell parts (and cars) a lot. So yes, I have a feel for what different boards do.

 

[Bolster]

I surely do like the idea of one thread that is the only place you can advertise eBay sales. Doesn't censure anybody, but makes it easy to skip the thread, too.

Other forums I frequent have a separate place for businesses to post, not allowed to mix in with the person-to-person sales. If you have an eBay thread, you could also have a 'Business Specials' thread. On some other forums I can think of, the 'Business Specials' thread is more happenin' than the private sales threads! And once the 'Business Specials' thread gets going, and businesses know they can advertise there, it's not uncommon for them to give specials of 5-8% off just for being a member of the forum. (This is how candlepowerforums.com works, they have an amazing buy/sell forum.)

I'd also love to see titles edited to read ALL SOLD when there's nothing more to buy in a thread. How many times have I gotten excited to see something I want, read to the last page, and it's gone.

The "first one to the table with the money" rule that's been floated would potentially result in the seller getting twenty paypal payments in the course of a minute, and then having to refund all the rest. Or to state it another way, "19 irate customers." And, it would attract scammers, who would offer a complete SO wrench set for $50 and let a hundred people buy it. SAAAYYY, that gives me an idea....heh heh, I'll be RIGHT BACK...

 

[davidcalhoun]

None of the following may apply to this incident, but..............

Sometimes we learn from our mistakes. I know I have done my fair share of learning.

I have learned that when I am selling something face to face, I need to to tell the potential buyer that if he wants me to "hold it", he needs to makes a deposit. Otherwise, the item is still for sale to the first person with the money.

If I am the buyer, I like to give a deposit to form a better contract. This usually detours sellers from selling something out from under me.

If things are spelled out completely then there is little room for ASSUMPTIONS.

 

[Rigmaster]

For the record, I HATE the "dibs" system.

Too many people are quick to call "dibs" then flake out while legit buyers get mad and either buy elsewhere or change their mind after being made to wait.


I know lots of people like it, and that's fine. I guess what I'm saying is that the less regulation the better. Encourage the sellers to specify terms of their sales, and encourage buyers to PAY ATTENTION to those terms.


I've bought and sold plenty of stuff online, both on Fleabay and via various forums. I've only been screwed out of $$ one time, and that still sticks in my craw (anyone in VT or near Cleveland OH who wants to do some detective work- please PM me!!). The main source of trouble is when the lines of communication are not free-flowing. Sellers need to keep buyers in the loop, and buyers likewise need to keep in touch with sellers. Say you post an item for sale and you get 10 replies all saying they want it and they'll pay full price. Well, if I'm the seller, I would reply to the first person who answered saying "it's yours if you want it- send payment to XXXXXX and I'll ship it right out to you", then I'd email each person and say "I've got a buyer who says he wants it, but you were the 2nd (or 3rd, or whatever) person to reply, so if they back out, I'll go down the list until someone takes it. Anyone who emailed saying something like "hey, I'm interested in this item- please send more pics or tell me more about it" would get a polite reply saying "sorry, it's been sold".

No one is left wondering what's going on, and everyone is MUCH happier.


IMHO, we don't need a bunch of rules about this on this board- it simply is not a huge problem that I am aware of.



EDIT: as for commercial postings, I say it's up to the Mods/Forum owner(s) about how this is handled....


Rig.

 

[Bolster]

Good point, a bad DIBS system just encourages people to say DIBS and then change their minds. The DIBS systems I've seen, put you on the hook to buy it if you say DIBS. If you back out, you'd better have a darned good explanation, or your name is mud.

Actually I've never seen the word DIBS used much, usually people say I'LL TAKE IT, PM SENT.

 

[BuickFarmer]

Eric, got my S&K pliers, screwdrivers and hammer today and want to say thanks for a great deal on some very nice, made in the USA tools. I typically check in on this site 4-5 times a day and even then typically miss all the good deals so was surprised these were still available.
Thanks again and hang in there.

 

[terabyte]

I didn't read the thread mentioned and I don't know who Eric is but I will say this: In my dealings with Bolster he is straight up and and as honest as they come.

I'd like to +1 this comment. SUPER straight up guy. PM me if you EVER have a question about Bolster.

 

[Stuey]

Other forums I frequent have a separate place for businesses to post, not allowed to mix in with the person-to-person sales. If you have an eBay thread, you could also have a 'Business Specials' thread. On some other forums I can think of, the 'Business Specials' thread is more happenin' than the private sales threads! And once the 'Business Specials' thread gets going, and businesses know they can advertise there, it's not uncommon for them to give specials of 5-8% off just for being a member of the forum. (This is how candlepowerforums.com works, they have an amazing buy/sell forum.)

I have noticed that many stores will offer "exclusive discounts" to one forum, and then the same discount to various others. One store that offered discounts to two forums - the source of most of its customers, rotated between offering 10% off to one forum and 5% to the other.

At least one other forum I participate in doesn't officially sanction such "exclusive offers" although they don't forbid it, because their admin has found that some of the stores that do so mark up the prices of the products before discounting them. In other words, if 80% of their customers are forum members, which is sometimes reasonable, this means that 80% of their sales are at normal pricing (marked up and then discounted) while 20% of their sales are at a higher price.

Beware of "exclusive" pricing - in some cases the pricing is still higher than if you shopped at the "discounted" store's competitors.