The Grizzly Industrial PASS/FAIL Thread

[Bolster]

Given the usefulness and popularity of the Harbor Freight PASS/FAIL thread, I'm thinking it might be useful to have a Grizzly PASS/FAIL thread also. Grizzly (www.grizzly.com) is another source of hit-or-miss toolage, IMHO. If the thread's not useful, then may this thread sink straight to the bottom!

 

[Bolster]

G0555 Bandsaw. PASS with flying colors. Widely acknowledged by the woodies as being a great bang-for-the-buck buy. Has won several awards in the wood magazines. I have no complaints about mine; I did buy the riser block for it. Sweet machine for not much coinage. You do need to replace the blade it comes with.

G0463 Small Mill. First attempt FAIL and then second attempt PASS. First one I got was badly out of tram, and there was a curved dip in the table like a polishing machine had spun down on it. It messed with my ability to measure tram. After messing with it for a month, I contacted Griz, who cheerfully said, "Send it back!" So I did, and they sent me a second one that was trammed, true, and plumb within a couple thousandths. A little shimming here and there and it's now quite accurate. Can't imagine life without a mill, now that I own one. I can keep tolerances to a couple thousandths, generally.

Dial height gauge, marginal FAIL. Not anywhere near the Starrett we use at the school. Quite wasteful of space because there's a lot of metal at the top that isn't useable for measuring...it's taller than you'd like for the capacity it gives. First one returned due to stiffness; second one returned due to stripped fine adjust nut.

Oil can. Looks nice but miserable FAIL. Doesn't squirt, and leaks out the bottom. So it dribbles where you don't want it, and doesn't where you do.

Granite surface plate. PASS but how can you screw these up? OK, to be honest, I have not actually measured the surface on it, they claim .0001 bi-dimensional accuracy, so maybe it's a fail and I just don't know. So inexpensive they're almost disposable. Amazingly heavy and accurate for something so cheap.

Slitting saws. Another miserable FAIL, the hole is off-center! Diameter measures .010 out of round! So only one side of teeth contacts the work at first.

R8 Collets. PASS. Very pleased, and relatively inexpensive.

 

[Teken]

Bolster,

What is a granite surface plate typically used for? Could a simple table top not be used for what ever item you're measuring / pressing upon?

 

[Bolster]

Bolster,What is a granite surface plate typically used for? Could a simple table top not be used for what ever item you're measuring / pressing upon?

They're usually ground flat to sub-thousandth tolerances, they're relatively impervious to changes in dimension caused by heat and cold, and they're often used by machinists to get very accurate measurements of parts, using a height gauge or other tool. You can be quite certain that the base of your measuring device is in the same plane as the bottom of your part, even if the tool is several inches away. If you don't need that level of accuracy, a nice ground cast iron top (on your drill press, table saw, etc) will do in a pinch, and will generally get you within a couple thousandths.

Griz claims "bilateral accuracy of plus or minus .0001"

The other thing they're good for, is getting dead flat surfaces on cutting tools and other things that need to be ground very flat. Just splash on a little water, place sandpaper grit side up, and slide your tool across it to lap it. Generally if you use your granite surface plate for sanding/grinding, it's no longer a reference surface for measuring, because even a little grit between paper & stone can change the accuracy of the surface.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

They're usually ground flat to sub-thousandth tolerances, and they're often used by machinists to get very accurate measurements of parts, using a height gauge. If you don't need that level of accuracy, a nice ground cast iron top will do in a pinch, and will get you within a couple thousandths.

Bolster,

I use a piece of window pane glass when I need a flat surface to make measurements which require a flat surface.

 

[Bolster]

Bolster, I use a piece of window pane glass when I need a flat surface to make measurements which require a flat surface.

That works quite well! If you get the right glass. "Float Glass" is best, but just try asking for that at your local glass shop...

I also use glass. Mirror glass, to lap the soles of my planes. It's "flat enough."

 

[SocketDeviler]

Interesting thread even though I have no experience with Grizzly tools or machinists tools in general but I like learning.

 

[Coach James]

I like this thread already. I had been looking at those granite pieces to use with sand paper to sharpen my wood chisels.

Coach

 

[bchee]

This is the first I've heard of Grizzly

 

[Stick Figure]

Good idea for a thread. I got a sale catalog from then a while back w/ some cheap fly cutters but wasn't sure if they were worth the $25. Oh and as far as your oil can i've got a similar one (same designs different colors) from HF and it works great. So that could be hit or miss if its the same manufacturer.

 

[MattT]

Interesting thread even though I have no experience with Grizzly tools or machinists tools in general but I like learning.

Grizzly don't just make machinists tools. I first heard about them from a buddy who equipped a semi-pro woodshop with their stationary power tools. This was a few years back and last time I asked he was still happy.

I came real close to buying their 10" metal lathe last year. Then I got laid off.

 

[Indy_500]

This is the first I've heard of Grizzly

x2... never seen anywhere to buy it.

 

[DavidB]

Grizzly 1023SL PASS Grizzly's 1023S line of cabinet saws are copies of the Delta Unisaw design that has been around since the 1930s. (Grizzly has since replaced the 1023S line with a 1023R line that features ahas modified the design to include a riving knife) I purchased this saw 2 years ago and have used it as a hobbyist with no problems. This saw often gets good reviews from magazines and users as a budget cabinet saw.

The saw was well packaged and shipped on a pallet. The fence comes in a separate box. Out of the box the table was very close to being dead flat and the arbor had very little run out. I measured them but have forgotten the values now. The table was nicely machined with no flaws in the surface. The paint on the saw was good with only one small chip around the bottom of the base. I checked all the nuts and bolts and they were tight from the factory.

The 3 HP motor cuts 1.5" thick Oak, Walnut, Maple, and SYP well with my Freud blades. The fence locks down well and with a little wax glides smoothly. The plastic face of the fence required a little shimming to get it flat but this was easily done. The blade height and tilt controls operate smoothly as well.

The downsides to the machine are small. The blade guard is functional and does it's job but removal requires a 12mm wrench loosening 3 bolts. The miter gauge is also nothing to gloat about. It's a basic gauge that weighs about 5 pounds because it's made of solid cast iron. I've sense replaced it with an Incra which is about 100x better.

I purchased it offline based on reviews from other users and am happy with it. It was a big upgrade from the crappy bench top saw I endured before it.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BycElAwhYMJHdAExCQQlxg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_wahveO1bUGw/SK9RAR4TjWI/AAAAAAAAAv0/Tpoch_pe9Cc/s400/DSC_7822.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Davidjbod/TableSaw?feat=embedwebsite">Table Saw</a></td></tr></table>

If you're interested, clicking the picture will take you to my Picassa album which has more pictures of the saw.

 

[Teken]

They're usually ground flat to sub-thousandth tolerances, they're relatively impervious to changes in dimension caused by heat and cold, and they're often used by machinists to get very accurate measurements of parts, using a height gauge or other tool. You can be quite certain that the base of your measuring device is in the same plane as the bottom of your part, even if the tool is several inches away. If you don't need that level of accuracy, a nice ground cast iron top (on your drill press, table saw, etc) will do in a pinch, and will generally get you within a couple thousandths.

Griz claims "bilateral accuracy of plus or minus .0001"

The other thing they're good for, is getting dead flat surfaces on cutting tools and other things that need to be ground very flat. Just splash on a little water, place sandpaper grit side up, and slide your tool across it to lap it. Generally if you use your granite surface plate for sanding/grinding, it's no longer a reference surface for measuring, because even a little grit between paper & stone can change the accuracy of the surface.

This why I love this site . . . I learn at least one thing new each day! Thank you for the insight . . .

 

[wreckercologist]

Good idea to start this thread, Bolster.

I've known about Grizzly for some time and have heard both pro and con.......as it is with any retailer or manufacturer. No personal experience with their stuff but I look forward to seeing a few reviews of the larger machines......lathes, mills, ect.

LOL...for Teken: I used to work in one machine shop that had several of the Starrett granite surface plates. We're talking 3' X 4' and flat out to .00005 or better. Stupid expensive...........they got used for piling random junk on and storing/stacking extra parts

Another shop I worked at had the cheapest Enco surface plates money could buy........if you even looked at them, much less breath on them the foreman started looking for something to throw at you! Figures....

 

[Teken]

Good idea to start this thread, Bolster.

I've known about Grizzly for some time and have heard both pro and con.......as it is with any retailer or manufacturer. No personal experience with their stuff but I look forward to seeing a few reviews of the larger machines......lathes, mills, ect.

LOL...for Teken: I used to work in one machine shop that had several of the Starrett granite surface plates. We're talking 3' X 4' and flat out to .00005 or better. Stupid expensive...........they got used for piling random junk on and storing/stacking extra parts

Another shop I worked at had the cheapest Enco surface plates money could buy........if you even looked at them, much less breath on them the foreman started looking for something to throw at you! Figures....

That is just crazy flat! What is the intent of having something that flat?

I will just use a general exaggerated example: If something was off 1/8" from being flat or 1/4" from flat I could see that being a problem.

But, when you're talking about .00005, geeeeeeeeeeese what are they using that flat surface for? Snorting lines, coin dumb toss?

 

[Teken]

This 2010 catalog arrived several months ago when I placed the order on line. The good people at Grizzly sent this massive heavy catalog from where ever they are from the USA to me in 5 days!

Try getting a Snap-On catalog, or a GearWrench catalog to Canada . . . Some great stuff in there, and also some not so value added stuff.

 

[X1 Mike]

That is just crazy flat! What is the intent of having something that flat?

I will just use a general exaggerated example: If something was off 1/8" from being flat or 1/4" from flat I could see that being a problem.

But, when you're talking about .00005, geeeeeeeeeeese what are they using that flat surface for? Snorting lines, coin dumb toss?

Those kinds of tolerances are fairly common. When I was a surface grinder a guy that could only hold .0002 tolerances was considered a production grinder. A skilled machinist will make sure not to always work in one area of his surface plate to ensure he doesn't get a low spot.

One of the main uses of a surface plate is to comparitively measure a known size to something you are machining. The known size is precision gage blocks commonly known as Jo Blocks. These blocks come with a calibration certificate and are so flat that 2 or more blocks will "ring" together to make a stack of the required size. From that you indicate over the top of your Jo Block stack and zero your indicator. When you indicate over the piece you are machining you will know how much stock to remove. And yes there are different grades of Jo Blocks or surface plates, some are for toolroom use some are for inspection.

 

[Indy_500]

This why I love this site . . . I learn at least one thing new each day! Thank you for the insight . . .

Me too, my parents yell at me for sitting on the computer for a long time, but i actually learn stuff by searching tool and snowmobile forums.

 

[Teken]

Those kinds of tolerances are fairly common. When I was a surface grinder a guy that could only hold .0002 tolerances was considered a production grinder. A skilled machinist will make sure not to always work in one area of his surface plate to ensure he doesn't get a low spot.

One of the main uses of a surface plate is to comparitively measure a known size to something you are machining. The known size is precision gage blocks commonly known as Jo Blocks. These blocks come with a calibration certificate and are so flat that 2 or more blocks will "ring" together to make a stack of the required size. From that you indicate over the top of your Jo Block stack and zero your indicator. When you indicate over the piece you are machining you will know how much stock to remove. And yes there are different grades of Jo Blocks or surface plates, some are for toolroom use some are for inspection.

Great feed-back and insight . . .

 

[bchee]

Generally if you use your granite surface plate for sanding/grinding, it's no longer a reference surface for measuring, because even a little grit between paper & stone can change the accuracy of the surface.

well damn even just handling it, and picking it up and putting it down a few times will screw up the accuracy?

 

[X1 Mike]

well damn even just handling it, and picking it up and putting it down a few times will screw up the accuracy?

It shouldn't provided the plate is of sufficient thickness. The problem is with wear not bending.

 

[bchee]

It shouldn't provided the plate is of sufficient thickness. The problem is with wear not bending.

yeah I'm referring to wear. Every time you pick it up and put it down, doesn't it wear a little bit? And when you're talking 0.001 every little bit counts.

 

[iandh]

Pass on G0463 mill and G4000 lathe. They've both more than paid for themselves. They're perfect for the home shop IMO, because they're as small as you can get without being a toy, but still small enough to be safely moveable with an engine hoist.

This is coming from a professional machinist of over 10 years with experience on large CNC equipment. There's a lot of mill snobs out there that will tell you that these small machines are worthless, but it couldn't be farther from the truth. IMO, if you can't get good work out of these, then you aren't worth a **** as a machinist.

NO, you can't go hogging through metal with them, but if you know how to treat them nice and take your time, you can still get some great parts for general hobby use.

The lathe is pretty much good to go out of the crate, but the mill requires a bit of tweaking to get running properly. I was lucky to find the pair brand new in box (crate) for $1300. $1300 isn't all that far away from the shipped cost of the mill alone.

 

[X1 Mike]

yeah I'm referring to wear. Every time you pick it up and put it down, doesn't it wear a little bit? And when you're talking 0.001 every little bit counts.

Generally speaking you leave a surface plate in one place, but even if you move them every day I don't see them wearing from that unless you are sliding it. The bottom of a granite plate is usually left rough so that has no effect on the plate.

The reason most are stationary is because of the weight. I have used plates that are 48" x 96" x 12", that is a big rock that tends to stay in one place. My daily use plate at my machine was 24" x 36" x 4" which is still not something you want to pick up all the time.

 

[autoace]

They're usually ground flat to sub-thousandth tolerances, they're relatively impervious to changes in dimension caused by heat and cold, and they're often used by machinists to get very accurate measurements of parts, using a height gauge or other tool. You can be quite certain that the base of your measuring device is in the same plane as the bottom of your part, even if the tool is several inches away. If you don't need that level of accuracy, a nice ground cast iron top (on your drill press, table saw, etc) will do in a pinch, and will generally get you within a couple thousandths.

Griz claims "bilateral accuracy of plus or minus .0001"

The other thing they're good for, is getting dead flat surfaces on cutting tools and other things that need to be ground very flat. Just splash on a little water, place sandpaper grit side up, and slide your tool across it to lap it. Generally if you use your granite surface plate for sanding/grinding, it's no longer a reference surface for measuring, because even a little grit between paper & stone can change the accuracy of the surface.

I just know a time machine is going to roll out of Bolster's workshop some day, he has all the good tools and knowhow.

 

[Teken]

Pass on G0463 mill and G4000 lathe. They've both more than paid for themselves. They're perfect for the home shop IMO, because they're as small as you can get without being a toy, but still small enough to be safely moveable with an engine hoist.

This is coming from a professional machinist of over 10 years with experience on large CNC equipment. There's a lot of mill snobs out there that will tell you that these small machines are worthless, but it couldn't be farther from the truth. IMO, if you can't get good work out of these, then you aren't worth a **** as a machinist.

NO, you can't go hogging through metal with them, but if you know how to treat them nice and take your time, you can still get some great parts for general hobby use.

The lathe is pretty much good to go out of the crate, but the mill requires a bit of tweaking to get running properly. I was lucky to find the pair brand new in box (crate) for $1300. $1300 isn't all that far away from the shipped cost of the mill alone.

You have a great set up there. What are your plans these days I recall several times you indicating a home business. What is it that you make, supply, or provide in service(s).

 

[gabeancounter]

That works quite well! If you get the right glass. "Float Glass" is best, but just try asking for that at your local glass shop... Tempered glass is supposed to be pretty darned flat, I've heard...

I also use glass. Mirror glass, to lap the soles of my planes. It's "flat enough."

Annealed glass is flatter than tempered glass. Annealed glass is straight from the float plant. Annealed glass is cut to size and then heated to 1200-1500 degrees (almost in its melted form). Then cooled quickly in the quinch. This traps the energy (heat) in the glass making it tempered. This energy makes the glass 4x stronger than annealed glass, but after being tempered it can not be cut.

Tempered glass is also referred to as safety glass. When tempered glass breaks it releases the trapped energy shattering into thousands of small peices instead of large shards.

Tempering glass causing a slight "roller wave". Glass rides along rollers in a furnace and as it reaches its melting point it starts to sag. Cooling traps this form causing roller wave. Less than .005 is an acceptable roller wave.

Too much info? lol

 

[Bolster]

Bean: Not at all! Glad to know tempered glass is not so terribly flat. As you note, .005 is really not so good if you're looking for a flat surface. I'm going to go edit my original post in case someone doesn't read this far. THanks! (Is the third mention of Annealed in your post above, a mistake? Did you mean Tempered?)

Bchee: people who have need of .00005 or less reference surfaces generally attach them to a bench and don't move them. They're not terribly portable items in the first place, often weighing 500 lb or more. Most machinists are also reasonably careful about scraping surfaces along the top, and clean the tops frequently with a special cleaner, so that no oil residue builds up and throws off the accuracy. However, the .0001 plates like mine are common, cheap, and not precious, so when they wear, just toss and replace. But wait for the FREE SHIPPING promotion!

Sub .001 may sound crazy, but it actually becomes important in many manufacturing environments. Your common, generic press-fit, for example, often requires sub-.001 tolerances.

I&H: Thanks for the lathe review. I have been eyeing that one. I don't own a lathe (yet).

 

[JayL]

Grizzly Forstner Bit Set ( 16 Pcs )

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Forstner-Bit-16-pc-Set-Ground-Tips/H6334

http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=30386&tab=_editor

Needs to be cleaned and oiled a bit after use so these won't rust during prolonged storage.

PASS

 

[Jeff]

G8693 Mini Shaper - PASS - It's small and well-made. Never any issues with tolerances or motor failure. I use it for shaping small wooden box parts. It will accept 1/2" shaper bits or 1/4" router bits.

G7942 5-Speed Baby Drill Press -PASS- Excellent for small shops or the DIY'er. It did make a strange grinding noise when I received it. One call to Grizzly and the tech guy knew what was wrong when he heard the noise. They sent a new motor shroud cover the next day. No issues with the drill press whatsoever. The belt speed is super easy to change. I did add a bigger plate for drilling longer stock.

 

[gabeancounter]

: (Is the third mention of Annealed in your post above, a mistake? Did you mean Tempered?)

"Annealed glass is cut to size and then heated to 1200-1500 degrees (almost in its melted form)."


Nope. Glass comes annealed. Allows you to cut the glass. It reaches its tempered state after heating and rapid cooling. At this point the glass can not be cut.

" Annealed, Tempered and heat strengthen are just different states of heat treatment. 1/4 clear glass will look the same no matter what. The only way to tell a difference is a logo in the corner, or just break it. lol

 

[Teken]

My observation of tempered glass is that there will be what appears to be random marks on the glass.

I have been told that this is sometimes the by product of it cooling and not all of the glass area cools at the same rate, hence it has this odd markings.

Then again I deal with Optical glass, so maybe these defects are less notice able to the average Joe.

 

[woody 73]

I do not own any grizzly products,but I have used some of their woodworking machines.
As far as service goes they are very good. I used a small wood lathe that had sheet metal legs,it would never pass in a wood shop,being that it was to light in weight.

Hope that helps.

 

[Jeff]

Granite surface plate. PASS but how can you screw these up? OK, to be honest, I have not actually measured the surface on it, they claim .0001 bi-dimensional accuracy, so maybe it's a fail and I just don't know. So inexpensive they're almost disposable. Amazingly heavy and accurate for something so cheap.

I have one of these as well. Excellent for sharpening. The tolerances are spot-on and the damn thing is so heavy it won't move an inch.

 

[LT2771]

I'll give this one a Pass.

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