The importance of the 12 point socket.

[toolaholic]

I changed rear shocks on my 07 Yaris. You are supposed to torque them on the ground. My gearwrench flex head torque wrench is only 36 tooth. I had to break out my sk 12 point sockets. I would swing the torque wrench towards ground then there was no room to click on upswing. Muffler in the way.So I had to to reposition it on bolt to get click to swing down again. 12 points give more positions. I originally torqued in the air. Very low torque spec of 37 lb ft. I don't believe i twisted lower shock bushing.I then re torqued on ground. The Yaris did seem to sit slightly higher in rear. After a week it settled to normal height. Just to be sure I didn't twist lower shock bushing loosened shock and torqued again.

 

[toolaholic]

I wish gearwrench torque wrenches had at least 45 teeth preferably 60 teeth. 36 teeth doesn't cut it.

 

[dede2897234]

toolaholic,


Thanks for sharing your automotive tool story. It will help me when I am in a similar repair situation.


Dave

 

[toolaholic]

G

toolaholic,


Thanks for sharing your automotive tool story. It will help me when I am in a similar repair situation.


Dave

here's some more info. The bolts are on the inside and the nuts are on the outside. You have to torque the bolts as a torque wrench w/ a deep socket will not fit between wheel and lower control arm nuts. Only a 0 degree offset wrench fits between wheel and control arm nut. On the passenger side after I repositioned torque wrench on bolt for downward swing, I had to put wrench back on nut because it ratcheted down to road. Wrench used was a 14mm kobalt racheting wrench. I have since ordered some non ratcheting 0 degree offset double box hazets. That way I can leave wrench hang on nut while I reposition torque wrench on bolt w/o wrench clicking to the ground.

 

[The Toolest Guy]

Just a thought. But it sounds like you could of just taken the socket off the bolt head, and turned the ratchet a tiny bit by hand then put it back on. Even with a 6 point socket. Not to mention that a 6 point socket would likely fit more snug, lessening the loose play.
It sounds like what you really needed was a ratchet with a smaller arc swing (more teeth).

 

[toolaholic]

Just a thought. But it sounds like you could of just taken the socket off the bolt head, and turned the ratchet a tiny bit by hand then put it back on. Even with a 6 point socket. Not to mention that a 6 point socket would likely fit more snug, lessening the loose play.
It sounds like what you really needed was a ratchet with a smaller arc swing (more teeth).

12 points made it easier and that's exactly what I did. Tighten and out socket back on. I wish the gearwrench torque wrench had more teeth. My 60 tooth Armstrong worked great but it's a ratchet not a torque wrench
.
P

 

[franzdom]

Doing the math I can't see why a 12 point would be any different than a 6 point in this particular situation.

 

[toolaholic]

Doing the math I can't see why a 12 point would be any different than a 6 point in this particular situation.

It just made it easier to get on bolt. Plus with torque wrench off bolt less clicking to get socket in a position to have room to tighten in down swing.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Just think if you'd have had a genuine spline drive socket, plus an ultra-fine tooth count ratchet adapter with 8 point broach for your 36 tooth torque wrench. You'd rule the world.

 

[toolaholic]

Just think if you'd have had a genuine spline drive socket, plus an ultra-fine tooth count ratchet adapter with 8 point broach for your 36 tooth torque wrench. You'd rule the world.

Good one! I actually like and do use splines. I love my sk pro ratcheting deep offsets.

 

[94EG8]

The easy way to do this is jack the vehicle up and put stands under the lower control arm or trailing arms depending on just what the suspension configuration is, then lower the car onto the stands to load the suspension. This should leave you lots of room to swing the ratchet.

12 point sockets are great in tight places, and for driveline stuff and clutches where you're actually using 12 point bolts, but this really isn't one those places where they're needed.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Torquing shocks on a Yaris; why?

I have $2,500 worth of shocks on my truck and they didn't get the torque wrench.

 

[toolaholic]

The easy way to do this is jack the vehicle up and put stands under the lower control arm or trailing arms depending on just what the suspension configuration is, then lower the car onto the stands to load the suspension. This should leave you lots of room to swing the ratchet.

12 point sockets are great in tight places, and for driveline stuff and clutches where you're actually using 12 point bolts, but this really isn't one those places where they're needed.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[toolaholic]

Torquing shocks on a Yaris; why?

I have $2,500 worth of shocks on my truck and they didn't get the torque wrench.

Any time I know the spec i torque it to spec. As a novice it one less thing to worry about.

 

[94EG8]

Torquing shocks on a Yaris; why? :

It's not so much that they have to be torqued, just tightened with the wheels on the ground. Otherwise there's always tension on the bushings when the suspension is at rest and the bushings fail prematurely. Hondas are typically the same setup.

 

[toolaholic]

It's not so much that they have to be torqued, just tightened with the wheels on the ground. Otherwise there's always tension on the bushings when the suspension is at rest and the bushings fail prematurely. Hondas are typically the same setup.

yeah I originally torqued in the air. Drove100 miles and torqued on ground. On ground the wrench took 4 1/4 turns to click on each side.So either they loosened or on ground something changed that bolt could be tightened more. Then a day later I loosened both sides and move rear up and down. Then I torqued it to spec. Hope my lower shock bushings are ok. At least the torque spec is low at 37.5 lb ft. I think with such a low spec maybe I didn't twist the bushing.

 

[02camaro86]

Torquing shocks on a Yaris; why?

I have $2,500 worth of shocks on my truck and they didn't get the torque wrench.

what he said...

i hate 12 point sockets with a passion, almost as much as flowmaster mufflers. the only thing they are good for is arp fasteners other than that they are automatic bolt rounders.

 

[Vigo]

As a novice it one less thing to worry about.

Thats the spirit. The only way you get a good 'feel' for how tight something needs to be is by 'feeling' what the proper torque actually feels like when you're first starting out. You can develop a pretty good 'calibrated torque arm' (your arm) if you actually learn what different torque levels feel like.

I've been a tech for a long time and i don't hate 12 pt sockets, either. I just don't use them very much!

 

[jrobb316]

12 point sockets have a purpose and everyone should have them. On top of 12 point fasteners (head bolts, rod caps, clutch bolts, flywheel bolts, etc) they can sometimes help in clearance issues like the OP.

 

[cheechi]

Any time I know the spec i torque it to spec. As a novice it one less thing to worry about.

+1 for doing things the right way as opposed to the 'good enough' way.

 

[Avplayer]

12 pts are everywhere in the aviation industry....u can always use a 12pt on a 6pt. But not the other way around

 

[Adam.C]

With respect to the OP for bringing this up, my sense is that the problem tool wasn't the socket, but the torque wrench with a 36 tooth head.

New torque wrenches and ratchets should all have the 72+ tooth heads to avoid these sorts of problems. That's why people rave about Dual 80. They really do solve problems. Its not kool aid. And I'm not advocating Snap On's 80 tooth stuff here, just explaining why people here have made such a fuss over their ratchets.

In this particular case, its really important to ensure the fastener is moving before the click. I'll bet that was pretty fiddly in this circumstance with that torque wrench.

Note: I recognize we still need 12pts for 12 fasteners. But this wasn't always what we used 12pts for and why mechanics had 12pt and 6pt versions of EVERY darned socket.

 

[Zeroek]

Make whatever you have work but my 12 points collect some serious dust at work.

 

[hangfirew8]

I just completed rounding out my chrome and impact socket collection with all 6 points. Now I am working on the 12's. Oh, I already have some, always have, just not in every size or in deep.

Back in the SAE beater auto days I had my tools stolen, bought a Craftsman (didn't **** back then) 12 point 1/2 in. drive ratchet set, man I fixed everything with that set. Nowadays road salt, Metric and tight construction have made it almost useless.

I do need to add some 72+ point ratchets, for the reasons Adam states. How did I ever survive without them lol! Seriously anything that makes the job go faster I want, and all I have to do is get an estimate for the job and the tools pay for themselves.

-HF

 

[Jim C.]

Any time I know the spec i torque it to spec. As a novice it one less thing to worry about.

Me too....novice or not. If I know the spec, that's usually what I go with.

 

[joel63]

Me too....novice or not. If I know the spec, that's usually what I go with.

I hear that.

 

[toolaholic]

what he said...

i hate 12 point sockets with a passion, almost as much as flowmaster mufflers. the only thing they are good for is arp fasteners other than that they are automatic bolt rounders.

I have been fortunate using 12 points. When I replaced my upper control arm bushings on my Dakota, I used 12 point kobalts to remove pivot shaft to frame nuts. They were 22mm. I even used a hazet w/o flank drive deep offset 12 point wrench to remove the one nut on pass side under exhaust manifold. Plenty of kroil oil was used.

 

[Stooge]

agreed on if I know the torque spec on something, I feel a little guilty if I ignore it and just go by feel, but with living in a snow state and with the exception of ARP bolts, I almost never use 12pts on anything. I don't think I could really even say that I own a "complete" set of 12pts, just the common 3/8 drive sets and a mix match of 1/4 drive sizes and a handful of 1/2 drive sizes sizes.
that being said, a yaris is really low to the ground, and I could see maybe having an issue with a low tooth, long handled torque wrench and getting it to fit right to get some swing, I know I don't have enough larger sized 12pts to be confident going over 19mm and knowing I will have a 12pt in that size, unless there happens to be one in my misc sockets drawer.

 

[toolaholic]

agreed on if I know the torque spec on something, I feel a little guilty if I ignore it and just go by feel, but with living in a snow state and with the exception of ARP bolts, I almost never use 12pts on anything. I don't think I could really even say that I own a "complete" set of 12pts, just the common 3/8 drive sets and a mix match of 1/4 drive sizes and a handful of 1/2 drive sizes sizes.
that being said, a yaris is really low to the ground, and I could see maybe having an issue with a low tooth, long handled torque wrench and getting it to fit right to get some swing, I know I don't have enough larger sized 12pts to be confident going over 19mm and knowing I will have a 12pt in that size, unless there happens to be one in my misc sockets drawer.

for whatever reason all my kobalt and craftsman 1/2 drive sockets are are only avaible in 12 point. I recent got a dewalt 1/2 set for only $25 just to get the 6 point sockets

 

[ravenzfusion]

for whatever reason all my kobalt and craftsman 1/2 drive sockets are are only avaible in 12 point. I recent got a dewalt 1/2 set for only $25 just to get the 6 point sockets

My husky and craftsman set are the same with 12 pt 1/2 sockets. I can't stand 12 pts, only use them if i absolutely have to. i did however buy a complete 6 pt 1/2 drive set all deeps and standards by craftsman to make sure i had all 6 pts. also have the dewalts in 6 pt standard size