The old fixer-upper...

[Alkivar]

Started working on my garage this year. It was a 21'x21' wood over dirt garage built sometime in the 1930s (house was built circa 1860)

this was the wreck last year after I gave it a coat of paint to clean it up a little:

due to the lovely building/zoning codes in town I would have had to give up most of the driveway to build new, so I gave up on that idea and had it jacked in place, tore out the floor, had new sills put in and made an attempt to square the building...

 

[Alkivar]

step two was changing from wood over dirt to concrete... since there was no way my 4200 pound Audi was not going to fall through the floor.

 

[Alkivar]

at the same time I did the new floor I decided to change from 2 doors to 1 larger door, and to remove the windows at the same time...

 

[Alkivar]

here's a pic of the new door being installed:

 

[Alkivar]

painted it last month... winter is upon us quickly up here in Maine... so siding and new roofing will have to wait til next year:

 

[Alkivar]

decided to go with R-19 fiberglass matting for the walls... thought about going with foam board but couldn't really justify the expense (more than double) as most of the heat loss is going to be through the roof and door anyways...

 

[Alkivar]

when I wired up the garage I made sure to have plenty of spare circuits and had a switched circuit with outlets up at the top edge of the walls for lighting. Went with the all weather Lithonia 4ft T8 fixtures from Home Depot... I have 7 in a ring around the garage for now... more lighting may be needed in the future fortunately there is enough additional power:

 

[Alkivar]

Wired up the garage for sound and internet this afternoon. Went with the outdoor insignia 5in 2way speakers from Best Buy that were on sale... 4 speakers for $120... couldn't say no:

you can see one mounted in the corner of the post above this one.

 

[Alkivar]

also found myself a cheap 42" toolbox on craigslist... used SK Professional box, with a single broken drawer... 100$ delivered. Started sanding it this afternoon, will be priming and repainting it this coming week.

 

[Alkivar]

On the agenda for this week:

1) Finish putting up plywood...

I decided to use BC sanded 4'x8' plywood for walls instead of drywall for a couple reasons... but primarily because i'm a klutz who would wind up with multiple holes in walls lol. I went with BC grade because its going to be painted as is and maybe covered in tile later... so no need for anything better.

2) paint walls

bought myself 4 gallons of white killz2 latex primer... should be more than enough to do it.

3) insulate roof

I've only got 6" of depth to play with for insulation... so I'm trying to find a local vendor of R-30 rigid foam insulation right now. If that doesnt work I'm pretty much going to be stuck with R-19 mat (something is better than nothing)

 

[993James993]

Your garage is beautiful!

I am in the process of finishing a new 22'x22' garage that is very similar to yours. Could you please post a photo showing the ceiling/attic area?
If you're interested please check out my build here on GJ: Arts & Crafts Build

 

[Alkivar]

Could you please post a photo showing the ceiling/attic area?

cant post one at the moment as I dont have one available... but I will snap one for you when i'm down there working tomorrow.

 

[banzaitoyota]

Nice job I am jealous of your "new" toolchest

 

[RangerSVT]

Very nice. Nice simple redo to make an old deteriorating garage into something functional! I plan to do similar on mine this winter. What did the floor cost you? BTW, nice avatar pic!

 

[bczygan]

3) insulate roof

I've only got 6" of depth to play with for insulation... so I'm trying to find a local vendor of R-30 rigid foam insulation right now. If that doesnt work I'm pretty much going to be stuck with R-19 mat (something is better than nothing)

It sounds like you are trying to preserve the vaulted ceiling by putting insulation between the rafters. You need to leave a space of approx. 1" between the insulation and the bottom face of the roof deck boards. This will allow air circulation from the eaves (Which should have venting) up to the peak of the roof and out either a ridge vent or can vents on the roof (Place them up high). A good way to get maximum insulation for the least cost is this. Use a product called prop-a-vent or cardboard cut and bent to size to wedge between rafters to create the continuous 1" air space. This needs to be done from the eave up to the ridge in every rafter space to provide continuous airflow. Then staple 6" Fiberglass batt insulation to the rafters. This will give you R19. Use unfaced batts. Then place 2" rigid foam (Pink or blue XPS or extruded polystyrene) sheets over the whole inside surface of the ceiling, covering the batt insulation and the exposed edges of the rafters. Fasten this to the rafters. This will add another 9-10R. Tape the joints. A more expensive foam board is polyisocyanurate. This will add 4 to 6R over XPS for a 2" thickness and can be had with a foil back for radiant heat reflection. Optional is to cover the foam with 3/8" drywall.
If you don't mind giving up the ceiling space then the cheapest alternative is ceiling joists, drywall and blow in or batt insulation as deep as you desire for whatever R value you like. Still use the prop-a-vents at the eave for air circulation.

Bill

 

[chief ben]

You did a great job on the rebuild, to bad you couldn't of mad it bigger,
but still it looks good, But I couldn't live where it get that cold,
with that many homes around me because I have to much junk,

 

[Alkivar]

Very nice. Nice simple redo to make an old deteriorating garage into something functional! I plan to do similar on mine this winter. What did the floor cost you? BTW, nice avatar pic!

the floor so far was the most expensive part of this job...

the soil the building was on was basically worthless... so we dug down 36 inches while jacking the building and filled up with harder mixed earth and gravel, and compacted... I have honestly no idea how many yards of gravel were used... but there were quite a few trips.

My concrete guy suggested using rebar only on the outside perimeter of the slab and going with a chopped fiber and 1/2" aggregate mix. He pretty much told me if we did it this way we wouldnt have to worry about the slab breaking into smaller chunks as it was now more likely the entire slab would move with the frost heave.

The entire floor was 1.5 concrete truck loads... 8-10 inches thick around the perimiter, 6 inches thick for the majority of the floor. Whole floor is sloped somewhere between 2.5 to 3 degrees towards the door for drainage.

I paid somewhere in the vicinity of $6000 for all the dirt, gravel, and concrete work.

 

[Alkivar]

Nice job I am jealous of your "new" toolchest

you would be amazed at what you can find on craigslist if you aren't afraid to be aggressive with lowballing and or buy some stuff sight unseen/as-is and repair/refinish it.

the toolbox was original for sale for $400 as listed... I told him that was too high because the bottom drawer was unusable, and it didnt have any keys to the lock. He agreed to drop it down to $150 due to the problems...

Then he said he really needed to get it out of his shop as it was just taking up space... So I told him if he'd do $100 i'd buy it right now sight unseen... a risk sure... but sometimes you can get people to sell low on an impulse that way.

 

[m.james]

It looks really nice. If you don't mind why did you not go with the same style garage door?

 

[fergus]

Nice work man...you saved that one for sure.

 

[Raze]

I'm diggin the resurrection!

 

[AndrewBigA]

looks good so far. waiting for more pics =)

 

[Alkivar]

ok sorry been slacking on posting pictures.

for 993 James here's a couple pics of the ceiling as is:

as you can see board widths are inconsistent, and the timber is quite well aged. I also need to put up a couple of reinforcing cross members as there really arent any.


m.james with regard to the door not going back in the same style, unfortunately the crime rate has gone up in my neighborhood in the past couple of years, and with my show car being in the vicinity of $70,000 invested into it (50k car, 20k mods) I was worried about theft/damage. This is why I removed the windows as well... granted it will not stop everyone, but it is much more of a deterrent when you cannot see into the building.

 

[Alkivar]

tonight we put up the last of the plywood wall boards:

tomorrow we start to put up the 1x3's we're using as edging on the wall boards to hide the gaps from the walls not being perfectly square.

 

[Alkivar]

here's a couple of night time shots taken from outside of the garage with the door open:

starting to feel like a garage! cant wait to see how much brighter it is with white walls.

 

[bczygan]

as you can see board widths are inconsistent, and the timber is quite well aged. I also need to put up a couple of reinforcing cross members as there really arent any.



Actually, you DON'T need any cross bracing in that roof structure. The boards are thick enough and wide enough to provide protection from racking in the roof plane. In addition, it is a hip roof which triangulates the structure and makes it quite strong!!! Do the outside walls bow out in the center? If so, a few ceiling joists or additional collar ties from side to side will keep them in place after bringing them in with a come along.
Have you decided how to insulate the ceiling/roof?
Bill
Architectural designer in Detroit

 

[993James993]

It's looking great!

Thank you for taking and posting the photos showing the ceiling details. I really enjoyed seeing them as having an open ceiling with exposed timber was a big part of mine new garage. It's really cool to see similar that dates from the 30's!

I like your walls. Any thought to using a semitransparent white stain that will let the woodgrain show through? I'm using a Sherwin Williams product called Deckscapes that is semitransparent to stain part of my garage.

I can tell you will really enjoy your space once it is finished. Thanks for sharing with us. I'm sure everyone here would like to see photos of your ride as well!

 

[Alkivar]

I like your walls. Any thought to using a semitransparent white stain that will let the woodgrain show through? I'm using a Sherwin Williams product called Deckscapes that is semitransparent to stain part of my garage.

I'm going a very... very... different route

walls are going a bright pure white (probably 4 coats as I want a good base) because I have a Graffiti artist who is going to do a wrap around 3 wall mural in there.

in a few years when I "grow-up" I will probably tile the walls and throw some sort of decorative metal chair rail in there.

 

[Alkivar]

Do the outside walls bow out in the center?

the walls have some sort of a curve in all 3 directions... outer corners are slightly lower than the center of the wall on the left (off about 1/2"-1") the left and back wall's bow outwards in the middle (off about 1"-2")... most of this is from warping over the 80 odd years the garage has stood.

If so, a few ceiling joists or additional collar ties from side to side will keep them in place after bringing them in with a come along.

the amount they are off is relatively insignificant, so I wont be bringing them in with a come along. I merely want to cross brace so they don't go any further out of whack and to give myself places to hang additional lighting and possibly an air hose reel

Have you decided how to insulate the ceiling/roof?

The in state manufacturer of polyiso who actually has an R-30 rated 4.5" foam board wants a price per foot that would make my great grandchildren cringe... and wont sell to me direct anyways... instead I'd have to buy from one of their distributors in Mass to have it trucked back to Maine

So it looks like i'm going to be going to have to go with R-19 fiberglass mat like I did with the walls since nothing else is will really work at the shallow depth I have. I don't want to screw more wood to the existing beams just to get the depth too much work.

I am NOT doing spray foam/batting... not only is it expensive, the companies around here that do it ****.

I'm open to other suggestions/alternative solutions however they have to be less expensive than my left arm and right leg.

 

[Alkivar]

I'm also open to suggestions/ideas for flooring...

I want something with a black and red color scheme... this is going to be a garage that is used for work (although no welding/cutting/grinding is likely to be done inside)...

i'd like something showy... but inexpensive to maintain/more functional is preferred.

I have looked into RaceDeck XL... and various competing products
I have looked into epoxy with flake...

I am researching polished/stained concrete but I dont see much about it on here... is it because it's more work? or because most people go a cheaper route?

what would you guys recommend I go with?

 

[bczygan]

the walls have some sort of a curve in all 3 directions... outer corners are slightly lower than the center of the wall on the left (off about 1/2"-1") the left and back wall's bow outwards in the middle (off about 1"-2")... most of this is from warping over the 80 odd years the garage has stood.
Actually, they haven't warped so much as they have been thrust out by the roof rafters pushing out on them. They bow out more in the middle as they aren't constrained as much as in the corners, and there are no ceiling joists holding the walls together at a fixed distance. All you have is a couple collar ties.



the amount they are off is relatively insignificant, so I wont be bringing them in with a come along. I merely want to cross brace so they don't go any further out of whack and to give myself places to hang additional lighting and possibly an air hose reel
If you're talking here about running some ceiling joists from wall to wall that's a great idea. That will keep further spread from occurring. Don't just nail then in place, use metal straps to secure them to the top plate of the wall at each end. If you want to use any of the space above them for light storage use 2x8's at 24" o.c.



The in state manufacturer of polyiso who actually has an R-30 rated 4.5" foam board wants a price per foot that would make my great grandchildren cringe... and wont sell to me direct anyways... instead I'd have to buy from one of their distributors in Mass to have it trucked back to Maine

So it looks like i'm going to be going to have to go with R-19 fiberglass mat like I did with the walls since nothing else is will really work at the shallow depth I have. I don't want to screw more wood to the existing beams just to get the depth too much work.

I am NOT doing spray foam/batting... not only is it expensive, the companies around here that do it ****.

I'm open to other suggestions/alternative solutions however they have to be less expensive than my left arm and right leg.

Here's the big question for you. Are you trying to fit your insulation between the roof rafters to keep your Ceiling open? Is there a reason for this like a lift or something tall? If so, use the batts and leave the airspace as described below. If not, then why don't you just install 2x8 ceiling joists across the whole ceiling and put batts or loose fill insulation to whatever depth and R value you like? You could even put a hatch and throw down some plywood for some storage in part of the area up there.

When using the F.G. batts, don't forget to provide a 1" airspace between the batts and the inside face of the roof deck. This must be continuous from the eave to peak in each rafter space. This is for ventilation and to prevent moisture in that space that could cause mold and rot. You will also need soffit vents at the eave and can vents near the peak (1 per roof surface. Use kraft paper faced batts for a vapor barrier and to have a flange to staple, or if your spaces are non standard widths, use unfaced batts and cut to fit. If you use visqueen for a vapor barrier, then slit the kraft paper. If you drywall over, you could nail 1 1/2" or 2" rigid pink or blue foam board up first for extra insul. value for a total near 30.

BTW, What is the size and spacing of those roof rafters? They look like the old actual 2" wide boards. Are they actual 6" deep? What is the space between them?

Bill

 

[Alkivar]

Here's the big question for you. Are you trying to fit your insulation between the roof rafters to keep your Ceiling open? Is there a reason for this like a lift or something tall?

down the road yes I intend to put a lift in there.

BTW, What is the size and spacing of those roof rafters? They look like the old actual 2" wide boards. Are they actual 6" deep? What is the space between them?

they are 24" spaced... beams are 2x6.

 

[Alkivar]

did some more work on the garage today... while it snowed

got the all important motivating banner up on the back of the door:

then we started and completed installing the trim on the walls:

since the walls were so far out of square, it became a bit of a pain to make the plywood line up, so we decided to trim it to hide the irregularities and I must say it worked pretty well, you don't even really notice stuff is out of square now:

 

[Alkivar]

oh and I got the internet up and running in the garage today as well.

you can see the wireless router for the garage up on the wall in this pic:

I had the electrician put in a second conduit for data when he dug his trench to drop more power to the garage from the house.

last week I pulled the network cable (Cat 6 Ethernet) and terminated it in my basement at the Telco patch panel then got permission from the Telco to jack a dumb gigabit switch into my home's fiber drop... then I replugged all the house data network into the switch...

while I would have liked to put all my computers on the same local subnet... I decided it was more secure not to put the garage on the network.

 

[Alkivar]

next garage project after painting this weekend is to cut this chunk of butcher block and turn it into a workbench:

scored this 48"x40" piece of butcher block off craigslist for $200 (was shopping around and a chunk this size/and wood type would be around $350 shipped new)... this was some old lady's kitchen island for 15 years... the block looks virtually untouched.

when done cutting counter will be two pieces 48"x20" and most likely corner mounted.

 

[Alkivar]

Ended up going with R-19 fiberglass for the ceiling... it took us 2 days to do it...

and then just to make sure it doesnt sag too much we added strapping... I may also use it to give me something to attach some R-10 foam board to next year. Up here in Maine a building shouldnt really have less than R-49 in the ceiling/attic... but as this is just a garage and not a living space... the R-19 is fine for now...

 

[Alkivar]

Unfortunately the winter long street parking ban begins tomorrow night and we have a major snowstorm due on thursday... so we've had to rush this so we can get the cars in there for the season.

looks like painting the walls and my toolbox is going to have to wait for springtime.

I may also have to wait on putting up the butcherblock countertop.

 

[what have i done]

did you allow space under the roof or is the insulation pressed tight against the roof sheeting? I'm not sure would this cause a condensation/mold issue? just askin.

I have always heard leave an 1" airpocket under the sheething. but how would it be any different than how we do walls?

 

[Stinky Pete]

This is likely a dumb question, but I'm new here so I'll fire away.

Something I've always wondered - are you not concerned about a single motorized garage door with no windows or man door? I mean if your garage door craps out on you.

I have a single motorized garage door and a big toolbox in-front of my man door. Every time I look at the toolbox I think I should move it.

 

[floridaguy]

did you allow space under the roof or is the insulation pressed tight against the roof sheeting? I'm not sure would this cause a condensation/mold issue? just askin.

I have always heard leave an 1" airpocket under the sheething. but how would it be any different than how we do walls?

I think this is what you are referring to

A vent under the insulation to allow for air flow.