I understand al that, but the coil isn't wired like it should be, the wire from the distributor (ground) is wired through the external resistor before it goes to the coil. This makes no sense whatsoever, but ran this was before. Now I am going to clean the points, but the entire system (minus the coil) is new. I am also going to look at the service manual and see if there is some more specific info.
Above 1200 Sq/FT The Salvage Garage
- Thread starter Strouty
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Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.
Still can't find my test light, I am slightly frustrated, but that is SOP at this point. It doesn't help that I moved everything on Thursday while I had help, so there is an even worse discombobulation than normal. I think I need to just get this forklift running and get it out of here, that would be a help. I want to just start cleaning the mess up inside the shop, so I know that is the WRONG thing to do, if my brain wants to do it, well, that means I am either procrastinating or making up an excuse. If I go get the coil, ignition switch, and buy a cheap test light I can in theory get this figured out without spending hours looking for something that might not even be here. I should just make a test light, but right now the less I divert my attention the better.
Plastikosmd
Well-known member
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- Nov 17, 2016
- Messages
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Isn’t it just a coil with an external ballast resistor?
Resistor is before the coil, this is a terribly written ignition review but the diagram may be helpful?
I have a few machines like this. I switched out the external ballast resistors to internally resisted. Also removed points systems and converted to electronic/optical
Resistor protects coil during starting (iirc)
Resistor is before the coil, this is a terribly written ignition review but the diagram may be helpful?
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I have a few machines like this. I switched out the external ballast resistors to internally resisted. Also removed points systems and converted to electronic/optical
Resistor protects coil during starting (iirc)
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This unit is sold, not doing anything more than get it running (again) upgrades. This resistor is wired in after the coil in between the coil and the distributor, that is why I am so confused. I am going to wire it the proper way and test everything out tomorrow. Someone did some bad wiring at some point.
Tommo3
Well-known member
Ballast resistor stops starter motor robbing current from ignition when cranking, is this the unit you just replaced starter on?
I'm not sure that is accurate. I'm not a forklift guy so I could be wrong....
But this is how I see it.... The ballast resistor cuts the voltage to the ignition system (specifically, the coil) down below 12 volts while the engine is running. (typically around 9 volts) However, most vehicles that use a points ignition system will bypass the ballast resistor when the ignition switch is in the "crank" position. This allows the ignition coil to see the full 12 volts while cranking to help start the engine with a "hotter" spark. Once the engine is started, and the ignition switch is released from the "crank" position and returned to the "run" position, the ballast resister is now back in the ignition circuit limiting the voltage down to the 9 volt range.
Just my $0.02
This is a third forklift, the other two with starter issues are both diesel.
AA/FC is correct, the coils do not like the constant voltage that a 12 volt system creates, but it will help starting the engine so they do usually bypass it for that purpose. From what I have seen, if you live in a warm climate there is really no reason to do the bypass, it is more for colder climates, but I can't see any harm in bypassing for the purpose of starting.
Craptain
Well-known member
This. Actually I just saw the latest "Low Buck Garage" where he had this exact problem.
I have confirmed that the points system is functioning, I expect to have things wired up shortly, need to find a few terminals for the new ignition, going to run things temporary to make sure everything works before I install new wires. I am going to make it right as I do not want to have another issue before the buyer picks it up.
Screw points, are you keeping that one? Pertronix rules, My 57 ford tractor starts first time every time even at 0 degrees. Make sure you use pertronix coil with there ignition system. I have pertronix in all my old style points distributers
Plastikosmd
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As an aside, I have so many machines with occasional electrical issues I have a coil/resistor with clamp that I can quickly swap wires(alligator clips) to bypass vehicle coil (along w plug test light) all in a little portable package
The most helpful part is the clamp so I can affix it temporarily to test everything out or move machine without it rolling around.
My jeep seems to be the most recent casualty. Idles for about 45 min then stalls. Give it 10 min and can start (the time it takes for me to walk back and get coil(@:&/&-&-@-&!!!)
Time to toss it in jeep to see if I can catch it when it acts up
The most helpful part is the clamp so I can affix it temporarily to test everything out or move machine without it rolling around.
My jeep seems to be the most recent casualty. Idles for about 45 min then stalls. Give it 10 min and can start (the time it takes for me to walk back and get coil(@:&/&-&-@-&!!!)
Time to toss it in jeep to see if I can catch it when it acts up
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Plastikosmd
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^ ya, but I like old ****!
It is handy as hell (as long as I don’t have to walk back from woods and I get it)
It is handy as hell (as long as I don’t have to walk back from woods and I get it)
Fires right up on either, so now I am going to climb all the new wires in a permanent fashion. I think that all of the confusion (previous person) stemmed from the alternator swap, they went from an external regulator to an internal type and the old voltage regulator had wires that would have looked a bit confusing. They had to do with the bypass for starting, I am going to make it right, don’t want to ship this out with headaches for the future owner.
I got almost everything done, I need a couple terminals, and I have to figure out the ignition switch, thought I was good, but the way I had it, there was no power after I release the key. Other than that, I have to change out the carb, again. I don’t recommend the Amazon Chinese specials and of course I am past the return timeframe. 
I would have had everything done tonight, but I had to split at four. I have set aside some time tomorrow to finish things, then I can schedule for the buyer to pick it up!
I would have had everything done tonight, but I had to split at four. I have set aside some time tomorrow to finish things, then I can schedule for the buyer to pick it up!
Lou's Garage
Well-known member
"... there was no power after I release the key."
That's usually a symptom of an open ballast resistor.
That's usually a symptom of an open ballast resistor.
bimmer1980
Well-known member
Were you able to get the ignition issues resolved on the forklift?
Nope, but I got two leases ironed out, got tangled into a property sale negotiation with the family trusts that involves some issues related to towers, and I pulled the docks out at the camps. Just got done with a meeting and am about to head out to do some errands, amazing how priorities get shifted so easily...
jack stand
Well-known member
That's why they call it work.
I got it running, but there is definitely something wrong with the new carb. The idle mixture screw doesn't appear to do anything and at the 1 1/2 turns out it runs so rich it isn't funny. I can turn it all the way in and it hardly changes anything.
I still have to hook the fuel system up, it won't run without either gravity feed or a pump and I can't put the engine cover with the fuel can on the roof. Kind of hard to drive without being able to sit. I put a new choke cable on it and I am going to change out both battery terminals, only other thing is I need a 90 degree boot for the carb to hook the air cleaner up. At least it is moving under its own power, I do need to charge the battery, has been used to start it a lot without any run time, so the alternator hasn't had a chance to catch up and yes it does work, I had to run a new wire for that too. I have a good diagram someone drew that shows the ignition system with the ballast, this was not even remotely how this forklift was wired and the resistor was definitely bad on top of everything else.
I still have to hook the fuel system up, it won't run without either gravity feed or a pump and I can't put the engine cover with the fuel can on the roof. Kind of hard to drive without being able to sit. I put a new choke cable on it and I am going to change out both battery terminals, only other thing is I need a 90 degree boot for the carb to hook the air cleaner up. At least it is moving under its own power, I do need to charge the battery, has been used to start it a lot without any run time, so the alternator hasn't had a chance to catch up and yes it does work, I had to run a new wire for that too. I have a good diagram someone drew that shows the ignition system with the ballast, this was not even remotely how this forklift was wired and the resistor was definitely bad on top of everything else.
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
If I understand you, the idle might be set too high.
I will mess with it again, but I had the base idle as low as it would go, I thought leaning the mixture screw out would stall the engine? I closed it until it seated, not crazy tight, but a gentle seating, almost no change except no more black smoke. I think I may have forgot to mention, I hate carburetors.
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
This might sound stupid, but there are some really great YouTube videos on how to tune a carb.
Geoff289
Well-known member
The power valve diaphragm being blown would be worth a look, it would explain the idle mixture screw having no real effect.
BORING HOP YARD
Well-known member
Looks like a clean install but it still might be worth checking for a vacuum leak just to verify the carburetor is controlling all the air going into the motor. Thank you for your contributions!
Prospecter
Well-known member
Yeah. Working on stuff that won't get fixed and stay fixed is annoying, inconvenient, and frustrating!
On another topic. . . We had snow and sleet when we were in The County yesterday.
On another topic. . . We had snow and sleet when we were in The County yesterday.
The place I bought it from told me not to open it unless I get the blessing from the manufacturer rep. I am trying to get ahold of them now, but I will most likely have to wait until tomorrow for that as they are on my time, not left coast time. We will see what I can figure out tonight, apparently gravity systems are sometimes the culprit, so I am going to try and get it plugged back up for the mechanical pump.
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
Some carbs designed to work with a fuel pump, might have a smaller float valve(needle and seat)that might not work well with gravity feed.
Some carbs have a larger float valve for gravity feed..
Some carbs have a larger float valve for gravity feed..
Spareparts
Well-known member
Find the fuel pressure it is supposed to have and put an electric pump in line, tank on the ground
and test it out, I have several elec. pumps rigged up when like that different pressures. Works good
to test equipment in the field
and test it out, I have several elec. pumps rigged up when like that different pressures. Works good
to test equipment in the field
xtremek
Well-known member
If it had a vacuum leak, I would think you'd need to have the idle mixture screw out to combat the lean mixture. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
We messed with it for a while, nothing helped, we tried this, tried that, nothing. The strainer inlet filter was weeping, so we took a look at that, put a new gasket on it, nothing. We sprayed carb cleaner all around, no surging (so no vacuum leaks), we confirmed that the float was at least working by taking the carb off and tipping it upside down and blowing into the inlet, it definitely would hold pressure. At that point we thought maybe the float could have a leak and not be "floating" anymore. We took the top of the carb off and the float was fine, everything looked fine, except a brass plug, it didn't look right, we checked one of the old carbs and it was definitely not as flush as it was supposed to be, then we found a bit of nasty casting, but it appeared the gasket took care of that. I took a brass punch and drove the brass plug down a bit more, so it was just below the casting. Put the carb back together and after a bit of adjustment it ran really well. Then I did something dumb, I ran it up to temp (without a temp gauge) and it started lower end clacking if you bumped the throttle, stupid me had checked the "oil" but hadn't smelled the oil, yup, it was definitely not oil anymore, it was mostly gasoline. We drained the "oil" and added new oil and a new filter, I am not going to run it anymore tonight, I need to get my infrared temp gun so I can see what temps things are getting to. I did start it and run it for a bit and there were no more lower end noises, so I think we caught it in time. I hope so, otherwise I am going to be out a lot of money for nothing.
Drama will resume at some point tomorrow, I am going home.
Drama will resume at some point tomorrow, I am going home.
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
That thing hates you.lol