Above 1200 Sq/FT The Salvage Garage

[Strouty]

I am going to try and find more info on the history of the building, since it was railroad related, I am sure there is more info out there. Would be cool to see some old pictures with the beams I salvaged in use.

I am going to unload a little bit this afternoon, but my main goal is to clean ups. bit for next week. I would like to really concentrate on the plasma table, we are pretty sure that the alignment of the torch is slight off and that it may be one tooth off from side to side. We have the original setup procedure now, so we will just pretend like it is a brand new machine and go through all the steps to get it setup correctly. We might run across some worn parts too, I need it to cut better than it currently does, trapezoidal sides and parallelograms instead of squares is getting old fast.

 

[Strouty]

At least I started the day off right, left my phone at the Hill, wasn't planning on going back there today, oh well, just another thing. I am usually better at that, but I am still tired from the last week and it shows. Luckily there isn't anyone I want to talk to today...

 

[Strouty]

I got everything off the trailers, now there is a mess of beams on the ground, will have to shuffle more than a couple things to put it all away. Going to leave the Hyster H-130 at the Salvage Garage for a bit, will be pretty useful, also want to fit the side shift controls on it and the fork rack needs to be cut and welded to fit. Will be a nice break from the other Hyster, it is leaking oil almost as fast as I can add it, time for the rebuild on that one. Going to get Clark functional again, and get the military forklift so it has an EBrake as well as modify the throttle, and figure out how to make the steering better. The ratio is ridiculous, something stupid like 10 revolutions to get to full lock, then 20 to get to the other full lock and that has to be done a lot when trying to get around tight spaces. Also have to address the wiring and a few other things. Might even bring the Mitsu back to the SG to clean up some areas that never got taken care of when I moved all the dirt a few years back.

 

[Strouty]

I bought a service manual for the Hyster H130 on ebay, said it was a "good used manual" They only showed the cover and it looked great, well, turns out it was a photocopy of a really bad manual, pictures were basically black, then text was faded to the point that you couldn't read some of it. I messaged the seller, they said there was a mistake in the listing and they had a good used copy. I asked for some pictures, they said they could send them next week (??). Anyways they sent the pictures and of course it is the other manual that was listed on ebay, they bought the cheap one that looked like *** and tried to pull one on me again. I am going directly through ebay, but the **** people will pull. Also, I can confirm that the images are not like that in a regular manual or even in a good photocopied one.

 

[Jayman17]

Crystal clear!

 

[Strouty]

On Monday we started taking apart the plasma table so we could figure out what the heck was wrong. Well, turns out it was fuct, no wonder we couldn't cut parts on it. First thing we found was that the plate that held the torch looked bent, then the roller on the bottom was not touching the rails. From there we found multiple things, broken bearings, more bent parts, clearly this had been hit by a forklift at some point. We have things pretty well figured out, ordered some new parts and made a custom square out of 80/20 to use for squaring the gantry to the rails. Still have a couple hours of adjustments, then a couple to put it back together so we can adjust things once the CNC motors are enabled. The rails that the gantry rides on were not parallel, not level, and the rollers were way out of adjustment, like someone tried to "fix" it, but didn't understand how it functioned. Basically as it moved forward and backwards the rails would get narrower and wider, making the gantry rise and fall all while twisting the gantry and the torch. This is why we got such inconsistent cuts, then the torch itself had three of the four rollers tight to the rail, so when the gantry made a direction change it would actually change the torch angle, plus the gantry was so out of square it would change things even more depending on where you were cutting. Always something, at least I feel like we can get it figured out in another day, then we can start cutting parts to see how much better we can get.

 

[Prospecter]

I admire your talent for returning junk to working order. That plasma table needs a lot of fixing!

 

[Strouty]

If I had known how bad it was, I would have passed for sure. The only redeeming factor is that the thing is built like a tank and so far any part we have needed was easy to get. I suspect that at some point it will get an upgrade to newer software, but for now it all works and hopefully after next week, it will cut nice.

 

[Old Man Roger]

If I had known how bad it was, I would have passed for sure

I was gonna say something before you posted this, but I held back.lol

 

[Strouty]

When I was looking at tables, if you saw what was available in comparison it seemed like a deal, obviously I put a bit much trust in the seller.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Any chance it got knocked around in your possession?

 

[Johanfpa]

When you buy used you always take a chance, sometimes it pays, sometimes it doesn't. Also sometimes the seller knows the issues but doesn't tell or they tried to fix something and are in over their head and make it worse. In the latter case it would help if they told you what they did but they tend not to. Glad to see you got the problems with the plasma table and hope your new parts will make it work as you want.

 

[Strouty]

Any chance it got knocked around in your possession?

No, this was something that was damaged, taken apart to try and fix, then put back together after with the damaged parts. There were flanged bearings and one was completely missing the flange as well as cracked bad enough to see the ball bearings. There was a broken thrust washer as well. This was more of a “try and make it work” type of deal, I saw video of it “running” and took the word of the seller, but there is no way they didn’t know how bad it cut. Live and learn, trust but verify. I did some due diligence, but the seller hid things very well. I even spoke with Swift Cut as they knew the machine. Obviously this was why the seller didn’t trade it in towards his new one. I can’t do anything about it now, just going to fix it and carry on. I am learning a lot about the machine and that is always a good thing, just wish I knew what I was getting into first, rather than thinking I was buying something that was ready to go.

 

[scooterbum46]

What model Swift Cut is it?
I had to rehab a table (Tracker, not Swift Cut) years back, that had been used in a furniture factory - they'd just replaced it with their first laser CNC. Same problem, moved out of the way quickly, most likely on a fork, picked up in the middle. Old computer, ancient software, Windows NT. Got it running for a friend (he's owned 1/2 of it. Best day in my life when he told me he'd sold it...

 

[Strouty]

This isn’t that bad, it is a swift cut mark 3 pro 1250, has some really nice features for a 2016 table. The stinking thing was $24k for a 4x4 table, still priced about the same. The build quality is really nice, they have lesser models that I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. I see videos of some that have what looks like a sewing machine presser foot that has to touch down between every cut, mine has full torch height control and it works very well. I fully expect that once I get things all leveled and plumbed that it will work very well. Right now it is kind of like setting a Bridgeport up without squaring the head to the table. At least that is my best description of the trouble. Also forklifts, just because.

 

[Prospecter]

Good to have the whole forklift family together for Father's Day!

 

[Strouty]

Back at the plasma table today.

Also dealing with a mess, we have property that the town says we don't own, that we do own and property they say we do own, that we don't own, then the neighbors property has moved across the street, pretty interesting how badly they have messed things up. I think they had Ai do it and just rolled with things. Not exactly happy that it is going to cost me time and money to fight with them over things.

 

[Prospecter]

Sadly, that seems like the norm. We've that sort of issue, too. It predates AI though.

 

[kent_323is]

@Strouty with your extensive paper records, can you fairly quickly pull property tax statements to show ownership? Good luck with this one, sure to be a pain that you didn't need.

 

[Strouty]

I have surveys, but all the docs I have for taxes don't show the actual maps, they reference the maps. I am sure I have some copies somewhere, but not going to have access today. The Town said they will look back and see where things changed, I know it was still fine in 2020 as that is when I last referenced things. They use a third party for accessing now and that started in 2022, my bet is they messed things up at that point.

 

[Strouty]

While we have leveled everything and we are making everything plumb, the water table/slats are not in any way adjustable and are quite a bit out of whack. Looks like we will have to shim that part to make it work, I think ultimately it should be adjustable as well, have to think about it a bit.

 

[Strouty]

Got the plasma table back together, did a quick test cut and not sure it helped anything. Tomorrow we will have more time to cut shapes out and see if we got it to cut square, we tried to cut one of the 8 point wrenches and it looked almost identical.

Another thing that we just don't know is how they level the slats, we are 0.165 lower from one corner to the next, the framework is leveled almost perfectly using a 12" machinist level and if you were to try and level that using the adjustable feet it is so rigid, it will float a foot. I am beginning to wonder if plasma cutting is just not for me.

 

[kent_323is]

On the plasma table, perhaps one more item to check before you try to start making more cuts, is to check if the travel of the x and y motors actually results in the correct movement. If you program the x-axis to move 12", does it actually move 12"? Same with Y-axis. There might/should be settings in the software to adjust this. If that is wrong, or just barely off, you'll never get good parts. It's possible the previous owner adjusted those settings in order to try to make it work.

Plasma tables just aren't my tool of choice to own. When I worked and lived in China, I had the engineering team buy a brand new 5'x10' plasma table and plasma torch. Even brand new, it was a pain to program and use. We got it working but it was a complicated operation to use it every time. It quickly gathered dust and we eventually sold it after keeping it for too many years.

After I moved back to the US, and doing stuff for my small business, it is far easier to design the part I want in CAD and send it to either the local laser cutting place, or have SendCUTSend laser it out or OSHcut. The nice thing with both sendcutsend and OSHcut is that you see the cost of the part, and the quantity discount as you increase quantity. Leadtime is usually a week or 2 depending on quantity.
For parts that I need quick and only 1 or 2, I just make those manually. For complicated parts, it's usually worth the wait for the laser cut parts.
The other downside of plasma table parts is the slag on the part that needs to be cleaned up with a grinder. And holes are never nice and round, especially small holes. Laser cut parts have a really nice cut edge with almost no dross or burrs to clean up.
Another technique that I have used is to design the part, print it out at 1-1 scale on paper, and then use that to trace onto the steel and cut out.

Plus, I just don't want to allocate the space in my workspace for a plasma table.

That's my 2 cents worth of input, you have to decide for yourself where you want to spend your time and frustration. Maybe you've improved it enough to sell and get your money out of it?

 

[Strouty]

I am in the learning phase still, so being able to draw a CAD file and cut it is how I am going to learn. Most of my stuff is one off/prototype and last minute, so having the ability to make it when I want is going to be nice.

Our plan was to setup a dial indicator and see the distance that the torch moves, the main issue is that the software is some overlay of Mach 3 and they took away almost all the tweaking, so not sure we can do much unless I upgrade the controller and software. I am willing to do it, but I don’t really have the time to do it now.

 

[scooterbum46]

I was hot on getting a PlasmaCam (Colorado based) over 20 years ago. Ordered the video tape (pre UToob), figured the budget (about 14K w/a bigger Hypertherm, my 20 amp one wasn't big enough). I was still in the planning stage on my barn and as usual my sometimes orderly Operations Guy mind started running through the realities.

First, material handling was going to require equipment for lifting, moving, stacking and storing. Then the potential for actually making money - I was about three years from retirement at that point and investigation on that point was if I had connections, I could pick up work. Other than that it was going to be yard art and whatever fabrication projects I had going. Then the problem of dust control - plasma cutting is filthy, with water tables helping, but a real solution called for a separate room. I kept putting it off until after I retired. Then I got hooked into reviving Tracker and I think that's when I lost interest in the less than Pro homegamer equipment.

I was still getting quarterly ad booklets from PlasmaCam a couple of years ago.....

 

[Strouty]

All of that is part of the game, I think that it will be worth the education, most of the money has already been spent, now it is putting in the time.

 

[Prospecter]

All of that is part of the game, I think that it will be worth the education

. . . And some of us are learning right along with you. Of course, it's not the same, since we get free admission!

 

[Strouty]

Hopefully learning what not to do!

This morning I walked into the office at the Hill, no power, confused as I didn’t hear my neighbor’s generator, I went to the shop and it has power. Then I remembered there was something odd with the online account. I went down to the house and logged in, they showed a disconnect notice and past due info. I was a bit baffled, so I went into the billing history and it shows that I had indeed not paid a bill on time, but I paid in full as soon as the latest notice hit, then it shows the next bill with no credit for the previous payment, I had then paid an additional payment thinking I applied it to the wrong account, nope, nothing. So now I have double paid and they showed both payments on the account in their system, but they shut the power off yesterday. To top off, the second bill isn’t even due until the 20th? I am impatiently waiting for their office to open, I had already called the outage department and they could see all the payments and issued a reconnect notice. I guess their online system is as ****** a I thought it was.

 

[Allenw]

The electric company here can magically read your meter over the line but cannot see they left you without power when getting power back on after a storm.

 

[86turbodsl]

On the plasma table, perhaps one more item to check before you try to start making more cuts, is to check if the travel of the x and y motors actually results in the correct movement. If you program the x-axis to move 12", does it actually move 12"? Same with Y-axis. There might/should be settings in the software to adjust this. If that is wrong, or just barely off, you'll never get good parts. It's possible the previous owner adjusted those settings in order to try to make it work.

Plasma tables just aren't my tool of choice to own. When I worked and lived in China, I had the engineering team buy a brand new 5'x10' plasma table and plasma torch. Even brand new, it was a pain to program and use. We got it working but it was a complicated operation to use it every time. It quickly gathered dust and we eventually sold it after keeping it for too many years.

After I moved back to the US, and doing stuff for my small business, it is far easier to design the part I want in CAD and send it to either the local laser cutting place, or have SendCUTSend laser it out or OSHcut. The nice thing with both sendcutsend and OSHcut is that you see the cost of the part, and the quantity discount as you increase quantity. Leadtime is usually a week or 2 depending on quantity.
For parts that I need quick and only 1 or 2, I just make those manually. For complicated parts, it's usually worth the wait for the laser cut parts.
The other downside of plasma table parts is the slag on the part that needs to be cleaned up with a grinder. And holes are never nice and round, especially small holes. Laser cut parts have a really nice cut edge with almost no dross or burrs to clean up.
Another technique that I have used is to design the part, print it out at 1-1 scale on paper, and then use that to trace onto the steel and cut out.

Plus, I just don't want to allocate the space in my workspace for a plasma table.

That's my 2 cents worth of input, you have to decide for yourself where you want to spend your time and frustration. Maybe you've improved it enough to sell and get your money out of it?

I have a hard time not living with a plasma close. There's just so much lost time without. But i'm in the design/fab world, so it's easy for me. At the end of the day though, you have to go with the workflow that works for you.

 

[scooterbum46]

I have a hard time not living with a plasma close. There's just so much lost time without. But i'm in the design/fab world, so it's easy for me. At the end of the day though, you have to go with the workflow that works for you.

I bought my Hypertherm 20 mostly for sheet metal and pieces up to a 1/4 inch. I've made hardboard templates a few times, but don't do enough anymore to justify a table anyways, I do wish I'd gotten a bigger one, but even a 20 amp was spendy in the mid 90's.. Strouty is going through many of the aches and pains that I did with the Tracker, I should add Tracker was a big help in finally getting it finished.

I am sure he will persevere!

 

[Strouty]

We are finding other issues and we are working through them. Y axis had some issues, now it is dialed in to perfection, X axis is a bit of a mess, might need a new gear on the motor, but the rack and gear were VERY dirty, we had .090 backlash, a quick clean and it was down to .010, just finished a deep clean and going to recheck things. Have not done Z yet.

 

[Strouty]

After messing with the X axis, it has about 0.020 backlash, it is very consistent once you are through the backlash. Pretty sure the gear will take care of it, we will have to wait and see. All three directions are as perfect as we can read the dial indicator and repeatable, so once the X backlash is taken care of it will be dialed in. We made a few more test cuts, definitely going to be making our own charts and specs for different types and thicknesses of materials, I hope we will get the hang of it sooner rather than later. I am going to have to find some drops for all the testing, every cut I make is getting me more familiar with the machine and that is the end goal anyways.

 

[Prospecter]

Amazing progress. Those tolerances seem good to me, but what do I know? Do your drops all need to be the same thickness?

 

[Strouty]

In order to figure out what setting I need, you have to run the tests on each material (type and thickness) separately. As an example, we have been adjusting settings on the 1/4" mild steel, we started with the book voltage of 127, but we have found that 116 is better, then the air pressure was at 71 and when we set it to 69 with the 116 voltage we were getting essentially no dross on the cut edge. We tried more air pressure and there was lots of dross. A lot of this is just trying to understand the correlation between settings, then there are a couple profiles in the software that can be adjusted, but we aren't totally sure how they interact with each other. Basically we have what looks like a very nice cut at this point, but we think we can dial things in to get them where we want them, basically so it looks like a laser cut them....

Honestly we are trying to get the angle of the "foot" to go from our current 2.5 degrees to a negative foot, then we think it can be backed off to get almost straight sides versus the micro trapezoid we currently have. Hypertherm expects a 1 to 2 degree foot on the good side of the cut and a 3 to 5 degree cut on the bad side, so we are technically there, we just want better.

 

[kent_323is]

Sounds like you're making good progress on getting it to cut, and cut decent. The thing to remember is at what point is it "good enough" so you can move onto the other multitudes of projects?
Also, that cut quality is going to go down as the consumables in the torch head get use on them, so you'll see a diminishing return on optimizing. Plasma cut parts are going to require grinding to cleanup, just a matter of how much!
Balancing how much you're going to use it vs time to get a good enough cut. Places that are cutting parts all day long, every day, vs you that is going to cut a few parts every once in a while are going to have different standards for what is acceptable. With everything that you have going on, a little extra time with the grinder is/should be acceptable vs spending many hours trying to optimize the cut to make a single part.
Do you have any particular parts you're trying to make for a project that you can complete and then move onto those projects?

 

[Strouty]

I think at this point we are just trying to figure out where we can take it. Almost more out of curiosity, I am sure that most plasma tables are never leveled to this accuracy and never adjusted to the point we have adjusted this one. I understand that this isn't going to be a machined part, but I really want to understand the process and how to work with it and adjust it to suit my needs. I do feel that it can hold a tighter tolerance than we currently have and I just want to see what is possible.

 

[Strouty]

Today is the first hot and sticky day, the floor is like a skating rink at the Salvage Garage. I turned the fans up to help move some more air, was trying to get something done, but I really didn't accomplish anything, going to head home and get some sleep, still not feeling great and I am sure the hot weather will make sleeping even more fun.

 

[jack stand]

Chill out.

 

[Strouty]

Sleeping wasnt too bad, so I guess there is that. I have a construction meeting at one of the towers and then I am going to put dicks (maybe the docks too) in at the camps. I am sure that will be all I do today, the docks always beat my back up. Tomorrow morning I am going to a moving sale, should be a good one, it is an industrial surplus warehouse (small one) that always has cools stuff. I am actually thinking I might bring a trailer just in case.