The Skunkworks Build begins

[bluesman2a]

Here's the promised update on the electrical. It's a start. Here's a 400 Amp meter base and the mounting pads for 2 (left/right) 200 Amp disconnects. I'll take that into 2 Square-D QO series 200 Amp panels inside.

Once again, we come back to "overkill". I can't tell you how many arguments I've gotten into with people who tell me I could never POSSIBLY use that much capacity. And you know every one of them is probably right. But I can guarantee you that I won't ever need to dig up my driveway to do it again with heavier conductor or replace the meter with something beefier.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Wow Herb it got off to bad start but starting to come around. Looks good and Like the extras you put in.

Going with roll up industrial style doors? Too bad Robzilla moved to AZ. He worked for Clopay and got Kerry a good deal on his doors.

That "Bear" from the clean up on the bobcat?

 

[utah997]

Here's the promised update on the electrical. It's a start. Here's a 400 Amp meter base and the mounting pads for 2 (left/right) 200 Amp disconnects. I'll take that into 2 Square-D QO series 200 Amp panels inside.

Once again, we come back to "overkill". I can't tell you how many arguments I've gotten into with people who tell me I could never POSSIBLY use that much capacity. And you know every one of them is probably right. But I can guarantee you that I won't ever need to dig up my driveway to do it again with heavier conductor or replace the meter with something beefier.

Atta boy. I ran 400 to mine as well. By hell, I won't EVER need to yearn for more power.

 

[bluesman2a]

Going with roll up industrial style doors?

That "Bear" from the clean up on the bobcat?

I thought about doing the roll-up doors, but with the existing door, I like the style and utility. But I think it would look too wierd with a mismatched pair. I'm going with an insullated door on the front to match (steel on both inner and outer) mainly for sound insullation. Now I WILL be using a roll-up in the rear.

Good eye/memory, yes that's "Grizz" on the bobcat. He runs a grading business out of Dahlonega and does PHENOMENAL work, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him to anybody needing any kind of dirt-work.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Grizz...Bear hahaha I was close. Been a couple years since I had seen him.

Matching on the doors would look better for sure.

If the inside is getting rocked don't forget to put a block in the center for a garage door opener to mount on.


Hay I saw this today:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tls/479263321.html

 

[bluesman2a]

Atta boy. I ran 400 to mine as well. By hell, I won't EVER need to yearn for more power.

Dang Utah, it warms my heart just to know I can play on the same field as you can for ANYthing...

Seriously though, I've been admiring your build since you came over to the Journal. It's a VERY nice setup, and it looks like at the very minimum we can both agree on:
1) Concrete is FRIGGEN EXPENSIVE, and I don't wanna pour any more! (you with your BatCave and me with my Great Wall Project).
2) Anything worth building is worth OVERbuilding!!

 

[78fj40]

Here's the promised update on the electrical. It's a start. Here's a 400 Amp meter base and the mounting pads for 2 (left/right) 200 Amp disconnects. I'll take that into 2 Square-D QO series 200 Amp panels inside.

Once again, we come back to "overkill". I can't tell you how many arguments I've gotten into with people who tell me I could never POSSIBLY use that much capacity. And you know every one of them is probably right. But I can guarantee you that I won't ever need to dig up my driveway to do it again with heavier conductor or replace the meter with something beefier.

Hey,

I'm with you....overkill is the only way to any project. When building my 2200 s.f. house, I opted for 400A service....then I put another 200A service into my garage....you can never have enough. NEVER....

<evil laugh> hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha </evil laugh>

 

[PhantomEB]

If you have the option and take it for 400A, does it cost any more over the upfront cost of the installation??? I mean does it actually **** more power over normal say 100 amp service in just normal day to day situations.

I would love to put 400 into the house then branch off 100 to the garage.

 

[bluesman2a]

If you have the option and take it for 400A, does it cost any more over the upfront cost of the installation???

The only up front costs I know of are the cost of the meter-base (mine was about $200, as compared to the 320 at $150) and any other heavier than normal equipment you buy. I went with 2 Square-D 200 AMP disconnects ($130 each) and 2 Square-D QO-Series 200 amp panels ($160 each).

 

[bmwpower]

The only up front costs I know of are the cost of the meter-base (mine was about $200, as compared to the 320 at $150) and any other heavier than normal equipment you buy. I went with 2 Square-D 200 AMP disconnects ($130 each) and 2 Square-D QO-Series 200 amp panels ($160 each).

I would imagine the 400A wire would be the biggest expense. Especially if you live 350 feet off the road like me...ouch. It wasn't in the plans for me. I already had to pay something like $1k to get 200A the longer distance.

 

[bluesman2a]

I would imagine the 400A wire would be the biggest expense. Especially if you live 350 feet off the road like me...ouch. It wasn't in the plans for me. I already had to pay something like $1k to get 200A the longer distance.

Agreed, but for me, the cost of the wire is included with the install of the meter base, as long as I sign a waiver that the structure will be electric only. Which it is (for now).

 

[PAToyota]

Added expense for the 400amp service is going to depend a lot on your local utility and other features - such BMW's distance to connect. My connection didn't cost anything extra. And you only pay for the electricity that you use so unless I'm out in the shop doing heavy welding for an extended period I'm not paying any more than if I had 200amp service.

Like Bluesman, I considered 3-phase but the commercial rates were the killer on that idea - there you are paying more for the potential that you are going to use a certain amount of power.

Excellent shop, by the way! I've been following it since the beginning but realized I hadn't said anything yet.

 

[78fj40]

Yeah I would have to agree about the zero expense part as well......

The only expense out of pocket for a higher rated amp service was the inside breaker boxes. The outside meter bases and underground from up the street was all covered from the power company. As a matter of fact, I had to get the meter base myself from Dominion Power, and I went to the supply center, walked in asked for a meter base and he pointed to a shelf and said have a nice day.....


So if someone would like me to ship them a free meter base....just kidding....

 

[Bevis]

So if someone would like me to ship them a free meter base....just kidding....

Dang it....

 

[78fj40]

Dang it....

Just what I need, to go to jail for helping out a guy I hardly know...

 

[bluesman2a]

Garage door drama...

OK, so I should have KNOWN that things were going too smoothly. The vendor for my doors has turned out to be a real FLAKE. If I could have found another door in stock I would have fired this guy in a minute. The product and the installer (once we had the right ones on site) were good. It was just all the drama necessary to get to that point.

It was a comedy of errors that began this morning with the installer showing up with the WRONG roll-up door. When I originally called I specified that I did NOT want one of the metal/fiber sheet style roll-ups, I wanted the better quality slat style with a chain hoist (think true commercial). Guess what was on the truck? So then they got the RIGHT one, and it was too heavy for them to lift manually so they had to go rent a hoist to install it.

Then they hung the front door and the darned tracks were THREE FEET off the roof!!! When I called the guy about it, he gave me a line that I would need upgraded springs (for which he had already charged me) and I would need to add a fake panel (this is a LM3800 jackshaft opener). Can you say BS!?!?

Happily I think I have found a GREAT GC now. He came out on site, looked at it, agreed with all my previous specifications, then got on the phone and began to make them happen. He told me not to worry if it had to come out of his pocket he would make it right.

So at the end of the day I had a roll-up door hung (the correct one), the front door hung, but with a rebuild on the high-lift rails tomorrow, and the tuning left for the opener.

Here are the pics from today (none of the rear roll-up, it was too dark).

Notice here how far down the wall the door is mounted. For scale it's a 14'+ wall and a 10' door.

 

[78fj40]

Re: Garage door drama...

Is that spring bracket fastened only to the short side of a 2x4? Isn't that where the torque of the spring carries it load?

Scary....

 

[bluesman2a]

Re: Garage door drama...

Is that spring bracket fastened only to the short side of a 2x4? Isn't that where the torque of the spring carries it load?

No, it's kind of hard to tell in the pic, but all my framing is 2X6 and the area they have that fastened to there are 3 of them sistered together. I believe that the new mounting surface will be on the header itself though, we'll see.

 

[Bib Overalls]

400 amp service is quite common here. The utilities don't even blink if you spec it.

 

[bluesman2a]

OK so Big, BIG, *BIG* day today...

Updates since last: The siding guys came and re-did the front face so it ALL matches, and re-did the back so the color doesn't look striped. The garage door guys are on their FOURTH service call and everything is STILL not functional and installed correctly.

As promised, pics of the roll-up door:

Then these nice gentlemen showed up this morning (on time, prepared, and as promised, is that REALLY so hard?)...

They worked fast, the $300 I spent on installation was worth EVERY penny.

And by 11:00, this is what my new garage looked like this:

Then is was off to HomelyDesperate for supplies, some BBQ lunch, and back in time for the FIFTH (and still not final) service call from the garage door guys.

Later this afternoon we got the knockout boxes all mounted, both of the 200 amp load centers mounted, and one complete wall worth of wire pulled. I'll get some pictures of this and more info as we get more done tomorrow. We should finish the rough-out on electrical this weekend.

 

[Bevis]

sounds like everything else will be done before the garage doors...

 

[bluesman2a]

sounds like everything else will be done before the garage doors...

I know it sounds more than a bit ***-backwards, but I think you may be right, just depends on how fast I can meet up with an inspector.

 

[cdrewferd]

Looks great with the lift in there.

 

[bluesman2a]

Some updates:

Been having a heck of a time with the garage door guys. Thankfully my GC is dealing with it and making things right. They are supposed to come by tomorrow and finish the install (put up trim moulding to seal it, give me the correct controls for my LM3800, etc) and it ONLY took SIX trips to get it all right!!!

Tomorrow the power company is supposed to show for burying the power feed and setting up the meter base.

Last weekend after the lift guys vacated we got a good portion of the electrical done for rough-in.

Two 200Amp services.

Right bay-wall. It works out to be a 2-gang box about every 3' or so.

Left bay-wall (opposite above) looking at it from the rear:

Just add a sheet of OSB and voila, you have a very cool adjustable-height work table.

Right now, it's looking like we'll be doing the driveway sometime in the next couple of weeks as well, so more updates soon.

 

[Will67]

Just do not forget to put in the nail plates over your electrical runs. It looks like a few of those holes are closer than a 1 1/4 to edge of stud???

 

[Namocsid]

Just do not forget to put in the nail plates over your electrical runs. It looks like a few of those holes are closer than a 1 1/4 to edge of stud???

At first glance it does look like that, but I think he's got 2x6 walls, so the picture might be decieving...

 

[bluesman2a]

At first glance it does look like that, but I think he's got 2x6 walls, so the picture might be decieving...

Good point for both you and Will. Some of them are a little closer than I would like, but we had to di ti that way. I think I will be putting up the plates just to be sure.

The boxes are 52" off the sill-plate, so I wouldn't anticipate any issues with drilling into one, but better safe than sorry.

Today was a big day though, the garage door guys showed up and FINALLY finished everything to my satisfaction.

Then the power company came out to dig the trench for the power, put in the conduit, and reburried it all.

While all that was going on, a friend of mine played hookey this week and we spent the afternoon mounting the rest of the stuff for the meterbase and disconnects. That's now 95% done (thanks to not having parts).

THEN because all THAT got done, my GC bumped up the driveway work and I've got a bobcat crew showing up here at 8:00AM in the morning. If things stay dry (yeah, RIGHT) I may have a driveway sometime this week!

 

[bluesman2a]

Another big day... As promised, I had a crew here at 8:00AM this morning to start prepping my driveway. We also spent some significant time dressing out the site to finish things off.

First we took about 8" of material out in the space of the new concrete (about 1600 SF worth).

We took the spare dirt from where we'll be doing the concrete pour and filled in more between the wall and the buiding. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but this really finishes out the area more nicely.

We took it around the back to where we've already planted some winter rye to prevent erosion. In some areas we filled in more than about a foot, you can see here some of the deepest.

Then put in a ****-load more gravel to prep for the pour and dress-out the site a little better. I cannot express how happy I am to not be dragging red mud everywhere on my shoes when I step outside! As a bonus, also have plenty of parking now too.

After the grading crew left, we got the disconnects mounted and setup. Set the ground rods in, and prepped everything for some inside work tomorrow.

 

[Bevis]

The end is near... good to hear that the garage doors are finally done.

 

[Aceman]

What is the reason for the outside disconnects? Local code?

I would of just nippled through the back of the meterbase into 2-200 amp main breaker panels and just deleted the disconnects. Makes for a cleaner install as well.

Overall, everything looks great!!

 

[bluesman2a]

What is the reason for the outside disconnects? Local code?

I would of just nippled through the back of the meterbase into 2-200 amp main breaker panels and just deleted the disconnects. Makes for a cleaner install as well.

Yes, you are correct. Because it's a 400A service, evidently the rules are a little different than your average home install. I would have preferred to do it like you said, but that wasn't an option for us. I also looked at doing a single 400A disconnect, but they were in excess of $700, whereas the 200Amp discos were only about $250 for both.

More excitement today: just got off the phone with the driveway guys, and we have everything formed up for the driveway pour tomorrow, starting at 8:00 AM!

 

[JMURiz]

Wow, what a transformation, that's one serious car (truck) area!

 

[bluesman2a]

Wow, what a transformation, that's one serious car (truck) area!

Thanks for the kind words Nathan... It's odd, but I've been living in the "plans" for so long now that sometimes it's difficult to appreciate the REALITY. I was looking at it yesterday when it really hit me... I now have FIVE bays worth of vehicle space, three completely separate areas, AND 2 additional storage areas above (one of which will be finished at a later date).

I'm still living in a state of denial/wonder. Now all I need to do is STOP writing checks, get my electrical turned ON and start enjoying it all!

 

[bluesman2a]

WOOT!!! Houston, we HAVE driveway!!!

Woke up this morning to a crew who was on time and by the time I got outside, they had already setup protective coverings for my new vinyl, garage-doors, and existing driveway. I can hardly believe the amount of care and attention these guys put into the work. I have to say this is certainly a VERY nice crew to finish the project with (electrical and inspections to go, but this is the last paid crew). They even cleaned up after themselves, how rare is THAT?!?!

 

[David Ferguson]

I'm surprised that you don't have any rebar reinforcing in that slab. Also, how much compaction did they do to the gravel -- it looks fairly loose in those pictures.

 

[bluesman2a]

I'm surprised that you don't have any rebar reinforcing in that slab.

Based on what I saw here, I would have thought rebar would be more common in dirveways here too.

In checking around, and looking at a lot of the driveways poured without it many people (at least locally) consider rebar overkill. The ones I've looked at have lasted quite well. You have to remember Georgia isn't generally as geologically active as say California, and the area I put this in has been well established and compacted under an existing gravel drive for years.

I know my existing driveway doesn't have any rebar in it and it's survived well throughout the entire project. If you want to figure the load bearing, the existing drive has seen about 30 tandem loads with 18 tons each, 2 construction rollbacks, 2 track-hoes, 2 bobcats, and 140 yards worth of concrete deliveries. I mean with THIS kind of load on it, I only had one small (probably 2 sf) cracked area:

Based on the additional cost, I elected not to go with rebar. I may live to regret it, but based on what I know at the moment, I think I'll be happy.

 

[astondb9]

Nice cement work .

 

[jeffj78]

You are extending the driveway more in front of the single door right? It just seems like the driveway would be awfully tight for anything to get in and out of...

 

[bluesman2a]

You are extending the driveway more in front of the single door right? It just seems like the driveway would be awfully tight for anything to get in and out of...

Jeff, the ultimate plan is to have much more in the way of a concrete pad, but that will have to happen over time. Honestly, I'm coming to the end of the project and the budget is getting pretty tight, so I poured what I could afford (for now), with an eye to just keeping the mud down.

I think some of the camera angle may make it look worse than it is. In person I see no problems with the way things are setup getting in or out. Besides, it's not a big deal to drive out onto the gravel, it's just not preferred when it's wet out.

Maybe this picture will help a bit:

To give you a sense of scale, the area up close to the garage is nearly 20' from the doors to the old concrete. From the new bay doors to the point on the new concrete in the foreground is about 45-50 feet.

 

[bluesman2a]

Time for another update. Things have slowed down a bit due to the Holidays AND the now defunct budget.

Since last post, we had gutters put on:
(also note the pine-beds we finished in the never-ending fight against red-mud.

New fence is going in today:

AND probably MOST exciting, got to do my FIRST project up on the lift!!! A friend had spun the mounting bolts inside the unibody in his XJ. Normally this would have involved MUCH cursing and pain as I hate welding out of position on my back/under stuff. This was most pleasant, set the lift to the correct height and voila, we were DONE in a flash (pun intended).