The SO obsession

[Justanoldguy]

This thread sounds like an SO promo.
Wasn't intended that way but I could see passion in the posts.
And that is a good thing.
Thanks again for the heads up..

 

[hydramatic]

I own the best ...Snap On ... I own ther first tool set..nuff said..

 

[Old Donn]

They are the Pam Anderson of tools.

Not a good analogy, Ace. Have you seen Pam Anderson lately?

 

[Skin]

Snap-On makes nice stuff but its laughably overpriced. Granted Proto, Mac, Matco, Cornwell, Wright arent much better but Snap-On seems to be the team leader in overpriced tools. It has little to do with quality or cost of production which is clearly evident by their yearly earnings. They sure arent doing anyone a favor.

So, i buy the other brands used or new through the interwebs with considerable discount.

I also find it funny that people baby their SO tools more than others. I like to abuse mine. People even go so far as to say they dont use their SO tools but rely on others because they dont want to "dirty" them. Stupid stupid stupid. Show me a Snap-On that looks like its been thrown in the meat grinder and is still perfectly functional and i'll be more impressed by that than all the photos of shiny chrome that looks like it hasnt seen a day of grease and sweat. Call me crazy but paying one of the highest premiums for a hand tool and not using it comes across as ignorant in my book and in no way gives praise to the Snap-On brand. Thats why i like to skim through the old tool threads.

Something about the fact that Snap-On seems to cater as much to simple collectors of tools as they do to actual mechanics just turns me off personally. This is why i actually like Proto, Mac, Wright etc... they seem to cater to people who are going to use and abuse the hell out of their product instead of collect and admire them.

 

[Cryptic1911]

I think they are like the Harley Davidson of tools.. Yeah, they are cool, tons of people use them and love them, but they are way overpriced for what they do considering that you can do the same job with another brand. Now don't get me wrong, I love Harleys, and I bought a Buell (harley owned) myself, but that wasn't because of the name, it was because it was different looking, and innovative, and thats what I wanted.

For most people, there's no need to ever buy super expensive tools. I can see for professional mechanics that beat the snots out of stuff all day, but 95% of us? Nah, stick with something cheaper that gets the job done and doesnt break, and get more tools for the same price. I'm of the mind that I'd rather spend $300 and get a complete set of wrenches, SAE / Metric, a mostly complete set of sockets, and other assorted stuff from craftsman than a 10 piece socket set from Snap On... Its all about bang for the buck.. and SO just isn't a good deal for what you get.

Its pretty simple:

Does it do the same function? Yes

Did it get the job done just as well? Yes (barring extreme circumstances)

Did it break? No

Did I NEED to spend man times more to do the same thing? No

I'm all about buying the *best* that I can afford, but there's always a point of diminishing returns

 

[crewchief888]

i started buying SO tools about 1983 or so. that 1st set of wrenches i bought have never been replaced/warrantied.
with the exception of a 5/8 comb wrench that broke in half after repeated blows form an 8lb sledgehammer
3/4" dr breaker bar head thats been replaced several times. the old style long handle and 6ft of pipe will do that every time.
13mm 3/8dr deep well that finally broke after beating on it with a hammer driving it on a rusted 3/8" bolt

all my working boxes are SO, i had boxes of many brands, SO had the best quality at the time.
ask me to buy a new box? NO wont happen off the truck, but i'll take a vintage box of any brand, anytime.
i replaced a lost 15/16 comb wrench last week. the shiny new armstrong just look out of place next to my worn SO, MAC, matco, SK and CM's

guess i'm old, and like stuff thats old

 

[MattT]

I think they are like the Harley Davidson of tools..

SNIP

I'm all about buying the *best* that I can afford, but there's always a point of diminishing returns

You picked a bad analogy with HD. There are very few folks out there who'll claim other brands are better than SO. Majority just think SO are overpriced. Can't recall anyone ever saying SO are inferior to their preferred brand. Can't say that about HD.

Agreed you're into diminishing returns with SO and the other premium brands. 90% of the time HF will work. 98% Craftsman.

 

[Busted Bolts]

When I started in vocational school, my shop was using SO. My first SO purchace in 1986 was a 1/4dr flex ratchet. It was a one of a kind at the time. I was able to build my tool set as a kid out of high school for 20 bucks a week. I was very much into my new trade, and felt (at the time) I would earn the repect of the veteran techs if I was purchasing what they were getting. Also having the tool to do the job helped my confidence when my trouble shooting was done and I could execute the problem. And now 24 years later I can count on 1 hand how many SO I have broken. Mostly small sockets, and 1 pair of needle nose pliers (tip). I attribute the breakages to myself pushing the tool to beyond its capability. I invested in the right tool for the right job (which is extensive and expensive). Most people will stick with what works and some will venture to try something new. I too have gone with some gear wrenches, but it was before SO had their own. Whether made by them or not. For the person making a living with tools in my opinion SO it the best. Yes there is a bling factor when they are new, but for me the used, scuffed, or dulled appearence is also gratifying. If some of my tools could talk. When they show use that explains enough for me. Sometimes I shake my head when I see some of the prices, but they have not let me down. Loyalty for myself goes a long way. I want my customers to be loyal to me, and my tools and my dealer have been loyal to me. $30,000 later it's been quite a trip. For the average home owner or blue mooner the c-man, SK, and others will be fine. For me my time is worth something. When I go home I am not going to sears to replace/buy my tools. Tools come to me when I'm working. All part of bussiness. The SO dealer is american blue collar worker like most of us. I like to spread the wealth as people have done with me. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE (just like the slogan says, Yes I know that means the price too)

 

[chadster1]

When I started in vocational school, my shop was using SO. My first SO purchace in 1986 was a 1/4dr flex ratchet. It was a one of a kind at the time. I was able to build my tool set as a kid out of high school for 20 bucks a week. I was very much into my new trade, and felt (at the time) I would earn the repect of the veteran techs if I was purchasing what they were getting. Also having the tool to do the job helped my confidence when my trouble shooting was done and I could execute the problem. And now 24 years later I can count on 1 hand how many SO I have broken. Mostly small sockets, and 1 pair of needle nose pliers (tip). I attribute the breakages to myself pushing the tool to beyond its capability. I invested in the right tool for the right job (which is extensive and expensive). Most people will stick with what works and some will venture to try something new. I too have gone with some gear wrenches, but it was before SO had their own. Whether made by them or not. For the person making a living with tools in my opinion SO it the best. Yes there is a bling factor when they are new, but for me the used, scuffed, or dulled appearence is also gratifying. If some of my tools could talk. When they show use that explains enough for me. Sometimes I shake my head when I see some of the prices, but they have not let me down. Loyalty for myself goes a long way. I want my customers to be loyal to me, and my tools and my dealer have been loyal to me. $30,000 later it's been quite a trip. For the average home owner or blue mooner the c-man, SK, and others will be fine. For me my time is worth something. When I go home I am not going to sears to replace/buy my tools. Tools come to me when I'm working. All part of bussiness. The SO dealer is american blue collar worker like most of us. I like to spread the wealth as people have done with me. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE (just like the slogan says, Yes I know that means the price too)

That was an awesome post. I hope I do as good of a job for my customers as your dealer has done for you over the years.

 

[Goinlow]

Busted bolts-I am in the situation you were in right now. I am starting out in the field and thought it was insane to pay snap on prices until I started using some of my boss's tools and noticed that they were a much higher quality.

I have since bought a few of the big important things from the snap on truck (wrenches and 3/8th sockets etc.

I am not gonna go crazy but the quality of the product has sold me.

 

[Hunter]

You picked a bad analogy with HD. There are very few folks out there who'll claim other brands are better than SO. Majority just think SO are overpriced. Can't recall anyone ever saying SO are inferior to their preferred brand. Can't say that about HD.

Agreed you're into diminishing returns with SO and the other premium brands. 90% of the time HF will work. 98% Craftsman.

I cant ever recall anyone claim that the Jap s*** is better than Harleys, at least not to their face.

I wasn't very impressed with SO recently,had all but swore off SO tools, I had quite a few small broken things to exchange but the dealer didn't think I spent enough money to bother with me. He actually told one local businessman that if he didn't spend $1500 each time he wouldn't bother to come anymore. Anyways after a year and a half without a dealer I finally called SO on wendsday, new tools were sitting in the shop on thursday via courier, kind of renewed my faith in SO tools, I guess i cant blame the company for some of the dickheads they get for dealers.

 

[Zrexxer]

I cant ever recall anyone claim that the Jap s*** is better than Harleys, at least not to their face.

Well, now you can. Because I have, always will. And everyone I ride with has done it too. Hardley Ableson is antiquated ****. Not even comparable to Snap On.

 

[myslow2002gt]

In my opinion, Snap On is the manufacturer or choice for certain products (for example, flare nut wrenches). The majority of my tools are Snap On, and the reason for that is simple- I find them to be the best made tool. However, if I feel another company makes a better product for the money I will not hesitate to buy it.

 

[Bolster]

I confess to NOT having a SO fetish. Which means, my citizenship here at GJ is suspect.

I do own plenty of SO, mainly ratchets, extensions, metric wrenches, & socket sets, old vac grip pliers, hard handle screwdrivers, ratcheting drivers, etc, and I enjoy & use them, but I don't feel any 'lust' for the brand, just friendly respect. Although I've been disappointed with some of their more recent offerings; I think their modern pliers are lacking.

'Lust' is reserved for Plomb, Proto LA, old Starrett, and increasingly, Knipex.

 

[Skin]

Well, now you can. Because I have, always will. And everyone I ride with has done it too. Hardley Ableson is antiquated ****. Not even comparable to Snap On.

not to further derail this thread but i think Harley fit and finish looks very good and they go to great lengths to keep the sound and look while improving their bikes and bringing them up to modern spec. I give them credit where its due and i'm far from a Harley fan. Now for the 50s-80s? I agree, no contest imports ruled. Excellent chance that anyone who owns an original Harley from that era wrenches on it constantly and owning a trailer for such a bike is mandatory. Today i do think they care very much about what type of product they put out so its very hard to compare. Plus they've been through so many different owners over the decades as well. The only recent thing I really detest is how they purchased then shut down Buell.

 

[mrosseker]

As a BMW mechanic by profession, I can relate to the SO obsession. For your average joe, most Craftsman tools are more than adequate. For a professional mechanic, there are times when you push your tools to the boundaries - and you need something that you can trust. You don't want to put your whole body weight on a pry bar from Harbour Freight, trust me, you won't get the job done. There are also times when you need a specialty tool to do a job, and Snap On or Mac are the only companies that make it. Plus, they come right to your door.

Another aspect of the "tool truck companies" is the student purchase programs that they offer - as an apprentice mechanic, I bought most of my Snap On and Mac tools at half price. This service alone makes me want to support these companies - I feel that they supported me when I was trying to get my foot in the door.

My toolbox is a mix of Snap On, Mac and some Mastercraft. The Snap On ratchets are unparalleled, and I like the feel of Mac wrenches better. For the expendables, such as punches, chisels, hammers, etc. I use cheaper stuff. I admit, there's a sense of pride in buying the best tools on the market, whatever you feel they are. It's a gift to ourselves for a job well done, and a new toy to try out in front of all of the other mechanics.

 

[RLRRLRLL]

Ive used snap on tools at my old job as a service tech, i liked them, but the other parts store brand tools i used did the job just as well. My box at home is full of Duralast, Great Neck, Craftsman, and very little Snap On. They do what i need them to do!

 

[rsanter]

I used to think that SO was overpriced untill I started wrenching professionally
if you look at the ratio or cman tools to SO tools I have broken, that tells the story

bob

 

[y20dth]

Another aspect of the "tool truck companies" is the student purchase programs that they offer - as an apprentice mechanic, I bought most of my Snap On and Mac tools at half price. This service alone makes me want to support these companies - I feel that they supported me when I was trying to get my foot in the door.

I didn't know about that. That is indeed a very good service.

 

[Joe69]

I still think it has a lot to do with your dealer, mine *****! My Matco dealer is top notch, therefore I have more Matco than SO. Right now, I've been waiting for a month to get a SO 15/16 socket replaced. Maybe next week. That's the norm with him. My Matco dealer usually has them in stock, no more than a week wait. They have both been in it about the same amount of time. The Matco guy gets a new truck every few years, the SO guy is still driving the early 80's junker he started with. Guess who's doing better!

Joe

 

[tyndall]

Plus, they come right to your door.

I envy guys that have a decent dealer. Most of the techs around here deliberately keep balances on their account because the only time they see the truck is when he comes collecting. For warranty, you'd think he had to forge a new tool in his basement. If it's broken or worn out, it's been abused.

Another aspect of the "tool truck companies" is the student purchase programs that they offer - as an apprentice mechanic, I bought most of my Snap On and Mac tools at half price. This service alone makes me want to support these companies - I feel that they supported me when I was trying to get my foot in the door.

Our SO student discount was 40% off + $10 shipping, cash in advance, 1-2 weeks delivery. Still worked out to about 10% higher than equal brands. With the only reliable warranty method being mail, it wasn't worth it. From a class of 20 tool hungry people, I'd be surprised if he had $1K in orders.

SO has a more consistent quality throughout their line and a bigger selection than other brands. But if you wanted the absolute best of every tool, I doubt there would be a lot of SO in your box.

 

[Bolster]

if you look at the ratio or cman tools to SO tools I have broken, that tells the story.

That strikes me as a false dichotomy. Compare SO against HF and of course it looks amazing. But compare it against Matco, Mac, Proto, Knipex, PB...? Still good, but not earth-shattering.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I buy Snap-on tools because i like them.

Do i think they're the be-all, end-all of tools? No.
Do i think they'll do jobs nothing else will do? Not always.

I like the fit and finish, the quality, the warranty, the ergonomics. There are times you're dealing with a certain nut or bolt that'll round off unless the wrench you're using it made to a high tolerance, and the Snap-on ones will handle it. They also win points for me in arease like hex drivers; where you can get regular/long/stubby/ball-end/long ball-end/universal. Their Heavy Duty Removal Torx drivers are tough as nails, and i've yet to have one fail me in any way.

As for the price, i buy most of my Snap-on stuff for a fraction of the new price. I often find used Snap-on tools for cheaper than i can get from other brands new.

Their RA account is also a big selling point for me. I don'y use it any more as i like to buy outright, but when i started out and didn't have many tools i needed a 24" breaker bar and some Torx drivers for work on a car i had in the shop. Snap-on turned up, i grabbed what i needed and arranged to start paying the following week. 15 mins later i was back under the car getting it fixed. (Yes, the timing was good in this case.)

I just buy what i like.

 

[Vinko]

the shiny new armstrong just look out of place next to my worn SO, MAC, matco, SK and CM's

I've got some Armstrong, most of which I bought new. Chrome is nice, but nothing beats some of that old chrome from SO. Esp. the SO of today. Just doesn't compare to the old stuff, does it? Maybe it's all that environmental regs?

For me, some of the SO isn't unreasonably priced. I wouldn't buy a metric set of combo wrenches for near $500, but I've got no probs. with the sockets, ratchets, pliers, screw drivers, etc.

 

[Vinko]

For me my time is worth something. When I go home I am not going to sears to replace/buy my tools. Tools come to me when I'm working. All part of bussiness. The SO dealer is american blue collar worker like most of us. I like to spread the wealth as people have done with me. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE (just like the slogan says, Yes I know that means the price too)

I think you've got a point. I hate going to Sears. But then I've had few warranty items with SO anyway. I appreciate the convenience. Our shop has been buying from the same guy for about 20 years, and he's been in biz. for about 30. If you need something in particular, like a certain socket for an odd job, and you want it that day, it can be worth it.

That said, it's really about the relationship. Because there's stuff like Armstrong from McMaster that I can get same day (though not at 7pm if I find out I need it at 5pm) and Armstrong's 1/2" drive 5/8's long socket was about $15 +5 delivery. Can't get that from Mr. Snappy.

 

[Vinko]

I had quite a few small broken things to exchange but the dealer didn't think I spent enough money to bother with me. He actually told one local businessman that if he didn't spend $1500 each time he wouldn't bother to come anymore

Wow, I find that hard to believe. I wonder what guy is going to spend a minimum of $1500 a visit.

 

[Hunter]

Wow, I find that hard to believe. I wonder what guy is going to spend a minimum of $1500 a visit.

This business was about sixty miles from the nearest major center, in a rural location, but he had five other businesses on this route also, two agricultural dealers and two automotive repair shops and a body shop, you would think he would be able to make it worthwhile , he only came out once a month. Maybee he ment 1500 on the whole route ? The mac dealer seems to think its worth his time and is very happy to see the smaller businesses. He has taken over almost all of the snap on route because of this, even in the city.
When I worked in the city the SO guy would come in and belittle the tools you did have.

 

[crewchief888]

I've got some Armstrong, most of which I bought new. Chrome is nice, but nothing beats some of that old chrome from SO. Esp. the SO of today. Just doesn't compare to the old stuff, does it? Maybe it's all that environmental regs?

For me, some of the SO isn't unreasonably priced. I wouldn't buy a metric set of combo wrenches for near $500, but I've got no probs. with the sockets, ratchets, pliers, screw drivers, etc.

what i dont like about some of the newer stuff, i'm assuming it's lazer etched,
i recently warrantied a SO 1/2-9/16 ratchet wrench, the difference is amazing, i cant tell what direction the new SO wrench goes, even with my bad eyes i can read the stamping on the older models

 

[mech.reclined]

Working on mostly german cars at an independent shop,it is about speed,feel,and clearance.My hand wrenches go unused if I can use an extension,a wobble-anything to beat time.Many of my tools come from smaller tool companies like Schley,A.S.T.,Hazet,Zelenda,Power Probe.The vacuum tester from SO is the best I've used,but the coolant pressure tester and adaptors leave something to be desired.
SO had some of the best "feeling" handles,but now they have a comfort grip thats soft but hard to keep clean.

I was told years ago(by a SO dealer!)to pick up tools and judge/purchase on how they felt in MY hands.Living in so-cal,we had every tool truck imaginable come by.Snap-on got alot of my business,but so did Matco(recoil-less I.R 3/8 air wrench) and Cornwell.Some of my purchases had to do with the service I was getting from my dealers,and if I had to have something,and the dealer was M.I.A.,maybe I could get it on-line.

 

[Taylor J.]

Service is great, but as mentioned the price is way far out. It all depends on what you want. I like Snap-on tools, does this mean that EVERY tool in my box is SO? Absolutely not. But that's just my $0.02. To each his own.