The tipping point....rebuild or replace

[TechieTechie]

Hi,

I have an original (or close to) 1928 brick detached garage. Nonconforming structure that snugly fits 2 sedans (sits on the rear and side property lines) on a city lot. Really no chance to expand.

It's been decently maintained over the years (new pad <5 years old), but it needs a new roof (EPDM) and ~1/4 of 1 an exterior wall rebuilt (bulging, due to a crack of a parapet sandstone paver and subsequent water leakage). Total cost for both repairs is around $14k (I'm having the best roofer in town do the work, as other rubber roof work in the area is sketchy at best). Rest of the structure is pretty solid.

Question is, at what point does it make more sense to teardown and rebuild? New garages in town are in the $25-$30k range. But because it's nonconforming, if I want to replace, it needs zoning approval (to confirm isn't more nonconforming)...or if I rebuild, the structure has to be more than 60% destroyed (by determination of the building commissioner).

In my previous residence/town, as long as you didn't expand the nonconformity, you were okay to teardown and rebuild...I think my new town is much more stringent. Hate to dump that much money into an older building, but unfortunately, zoning seems to force my hand.

Thoughts?

 

[acer66]

I would talk to someone local who is knowledgeable about that subject like a contractor, lawyer, etc. and then to the town.

I am in not in a city and had a similar issue and a tear down would have meant I would have not been able to rebuild it in the same location because of the setback rules.

Good luck.

 

[niget2002]

You might want to recheck your costs to rebuild. If it's nonconforming, then you'll have to rip out the old concrete pad and regrade around the new one too. Plus any driveway work to realign to the new garage.

If just have the work done on the existing garage. If the pad and walls are good, then it sounds like the structure is fine.

 

[TechieTechie]

You might want to recheck your costs to rebuild. If it's nonconforming, then you'll have to rip out the old concrete pad and regrade around the new one too. Plus any driveway work to realign to the new garage.

If just have the work done on the existing garage. If the pad and walls are good, then it sounds like the structure is fine.

Wait, is your first paragraph applicable if one simply replaces on the same footprint...or if I have to move the structure (if it's the latter, I agree).

The garage actually is a double walled structure. From the inside, the bricks that make up the interior walls are ~4x8. The outside, they are standard bricks. The interior structure is fine, but the outer wall (upper corner) needs rebuilt.

 

[TechieTechie]

EDIT: Spoke to the building dept. Actually, since the garage is masonry, it's fireproof and conforming. If I want to rebuild on the same spot, and to maintain conformity, it's gotta be masonry or fire rated (any part that's within 3 feet of the property line, which would be 3 of the 4 walls)....and has to get approved by the board.

Lord, there is only 1 spot of the roof that's leaking (maybe 3 inches around). I may just try to patch it to give me a year to get some longer range planning under my belt.

 

[niget2002]

Wait, is your first paragraph applicable if one simply replaces on the same footprint...or if I have to move the structure (if it's the latter, I agree).

The garage actually is a double walled structure. From the inside, the bricks that make up the interior walls are ~4x8. The outside, they are standard bricks. The interior structure is fine, but the outer wall (upper corner) needs rebuilt.

To you're first question... yes. From your post I was under the assumption that if you wanted to rebuild that you'd have to move the structure.

It sounds like from your most recent update that you can rebuild in place.

I like the idea of patching now if possible. Especially if you can do it yourself. Just watch it closely. We are coming into winter season where most places typically get a lot more rain. What you don't want is to find out it's still leaking with snow all over the roof.

 

[yeldogt]

My guess is your idea of replacing is way low on price.

Fix is the answer ... sounds like a flat roof. At some point you also have to rip everything off and fix what needs to be fixed on the roof deck. All too often roofers don't want to do this because they always find things that need to be fixed and they don't want to be carpenters -- it's easier to just toss another layer on it. If the roof has leaked ... you will have some damage and now is the time to fix and get the pitch right.

 

[FMB4]

I agree with the above comments (particularly yeldogt's wise 'tear the old roof off, rather than simply applying new over old). Good luck!

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[TechieTechie]

At some point you also have to rip everything off and fix what needs to be fixed on the roof deck. All too often roofers don't want to do this because they always find things that need to be fixed and they don't want to be carpenters -- it's easier to just toss another layer on it. If the roof has leaked ... you will have some damage and now is the time to fix and get the pitch right.

Absolutely, one of the reasons for the higher price is that we included some $$$ for deck replacement. I'd say 75% of the decking is in excellent shape (either the original 100 yo 2x8s or replacements, neither of which have water staining)...but if I'm doing it once, I'm doing it right. Rip off the old roof and the sandstone topping the parapets, replace any bad decking, redo using EPDM and a substrate, and cap the parapets.

Also, the reason I am a BIT hesitant to do the whole shebang right now is that I am going to be renovating the kitchen in the nearish future and would love to move a door (to have the kitchen door face the garage) and build a breezeway....so I'd like to including the long term garage planning in that master plan.

I'm going to go up on the roof this week to see how bad it is topside. If the leakage/hole/softspot is small, I'll patch and hope it holds for a year/18 months. If the damage is significant, then I have a decision to make. And if I patch, I plan on using The Old House approach, which seems thorough.

 

[ZRX61]

Wait, is your first paragraph applicable if one simply replaces on the same footprint...or if I have to move the structure (if it's the latter, I agree).

The garage actually is a double walled structure. From the inside, the bricks that make up the interior walls are ~4x8. The outside, they are standard bricks. The interior structure is fine, but the outer wall (upper corner) needs rebuilt.

Judging by the window, that looks more like the lower corner dropped? I'd be (carefully) digging out that lower corner for a look at the foundation. Altho with that said, the bricks to the right of the window look a bit wonky.

 

[Rst277]

You will never build a new garage that is as good as the one you have now. It has character and is solid and you can't buy that. If you need to save some money, repair the wood that needs replacing then have the roofing guy and mason fix the rest.

 

[captain14]

Fix the the old garage. It has character. Any chance of a tree root under that back corner that caused the damage to the building?

Post a couple more photos plus what you find on the roof area. If it’s a flat roof, how does it drain?

 

[yeldogt]

Absolutely, one of the reasons for the higher price is that we included some $$$ for deck replacement. I'd say 75% of the decking is in excellent shape (either the original 100 yo 2x8s or replacements, neither of which have water staining)...but if I'm doing it once, I'm doing it right. Rip off the old roof and the sandstone topping the parapets, replace any bad decking, redo using EPDM and a substrate, and cap the parapets.

Also, the reason I am a BIT hesitant to do the whole shebang right now is that I am going to be renovating the kitchen in the nearish future and would love to move a door (to have the kitchen door face the garage) and build a breezeway....so I'd like to including the long term garage planning in that master plan.

I'm going to go up on the roof this week to see how bad it is topside. If the leakage/hole/softspot is small, I'll patch and hope it holds for a year/18 months. If the damage is significant, then I have a decision to make. And if I patch, I plan on using The Old House approach, which seems thorough.

When I ripped off the roof on my current project built in 1870 .... the roof decking was in amazing condition. It had the original slate roof on it and anyplace it had just been not touched .... the deck was fine. Any "fixes" all seemed to have water holding issues ... things leak. It when they can't dry -- that's the problem.

 

[65ranchero]

Judging by the window, that looks more like the lower corner dropped? I'd be (carefully) digging out that lower corner for a look at the foundation. Altho with that said, the bricks to the right of the window look a bit wonky.

I was just going to comment on the very same thing!
also , did you say that has a block wall on the inside?
and if so is it cracked in the same area?

 

[ZRX61]

I was just going to coment on the very same thing!
also , did you say that has a block wall on the inside?
and if so is it cracked in the same area?

Easiest fix might well be mud jacking that corner to bring it back up to level.