The vintage Blackhawk Thread

[Oldtuleguy]

I saw that as well. Looks cool!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I would guess that those Lutz style handles were an add on. They were added to a huge variety of tools.

Don,
If by "add on" you mean a user mod, not a factory mod, that was my first thought, too. It looks like the cross-bar (detachable, 8" long) went missing, and this was somebody's inventive solution for an alternative.

My only pause is the strange model number. The model number for the 1/2-inch drive Tee-Bar was 9412. There is no 9312 in the Blackhawk 1930 or 1935 catalogs, let alone a 9312P. The whole tool was dropped by 1937. If that's a 1/2-inch drive Tee Bar, could it have been some kind of special with that different model number??

 

[twertsy]

Don,
If by "add on" you mean a user mod, not a factory mod, that was my first thought, too. It looks like the cross-bar (detachable, 8" long) went missing, and this was somebody's inventive solution for an alternative.

My only pause is the strange model number. The model number for the 1/2-inch drive Tee-Bar was 9412. There is no 9312 in the Blackhawk 1930 or 1935 catalogs, let alone a 9312P. The whole tool was dropped by 1937. If that's a 1/2-inch drive Tee Bar, could it have been some kind of special with that different model number??

That's what I'm thinking. Its way too clean to be a mod, unless the dude (or dudette) was a true pro. I think it's real and now I'm on the hunt! Yes, 1/2" drive.

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[d42jeep]

I'm still not convinced. There is a good reason that wood handles are almost never seen on a drive tool. The first stuck fastener that Tee encountered would be the end of it! If I see one in a catalog I'll be a believer. Until then not so much.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I can find no reference to a 9312 either. It may or may not have come that way, but looks awesome!

 

[drivesitfar]

Twertsy: very interesting indeed.

Jeep: nice collections of old wood handles and do you use them mostly for files or do tell?

 

[d42jeep]

They are part of the WW2 toolsets that I collect, so I pick them up whenever I see them. For my regular modern files I prefer Shurgrip handles that hold securely to the tang.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Let us know what you find out, if anything, Todd.

I am on the fence on this one. My first inclination is owner's mod. I said the odd model number gave me pause about that, but, there could be other reasons for an odd model completely unrelated to the file handles. And note that those are unmistakably Lutz tool and file handles, as Don alluded to. That's also a little strange. If it's factory, they would need to be buying them from Lutz or have some kind of licensing arrangement. If you buy the Tee Bar, let us know what's under there. I am guessing the tool and file handles are stuck on the ends of a much shorter tommy bar.

 

[Bigwheels]

These are blackhawk but im not sure of what period they are from one standard and one metric set. They appear to be vintage and in excellent shape.

 

[mcmlvif100]

Not mine and no affiliation.

Vintage Blackhawk "Chief" Tool Chest 3 Drawer 70-R - $100 (Kalamazoo)

https://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/tls/d/vintage-blackhawk-chief-tool/6430753167.html

This is a vintage Blackhawk tool chest, "Chief" wrench set No. 70-R. Sheet metal is in good condition but box has plenty of "patina". Box has some light surface rust where the finish is worn but nothing major. No major damage.

Box measures 22 1/2" wide, 9" tall, 13" deep.

 

[don long]

If i weren't so far away it would be mine tomorrow

 

[twertsy]

If i weren't so far away it would be mine tomorrow

Ditto. I love that style box and I have one that's almost mint. One of my favorites.

 

[thehorse13]

In case anyone wants to see the one in Raleigh, N.C.

BlackHawk Master Mechanic Wrench Chest

It appears to have some of the original tools along with some junk.

 

[D350RDV]

Deleted - looked at the pictures properly the second time....

 

[Vorut]

I've got these two USS & SAE complete Thread Restorer sets.
I can't faind any reference to them anywhere - They are marked "DT 98" and "DT 99" - Anybody seen them? They appear to be un-used. Very clean.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is an odd 1/2" breaker bar, with a fixed head.

 

[r_olson_06]

Here is an odd 1/2" breaker bar, with a fixed head.

Damn that is the one I need for my set I bet[emoji2].

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[Oldtuleguy]

It is a 9203. Not sure of the year.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is a little half speeder

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Found a bunch of blackhawk 1/4 dr sockets in a box I bought. Looks like 2 sets, one set looks older. Any ideas on dates? I don't see date codes so maybe pre 38?

 

[thehorse13]

Both of those sets appear in the 1937 Blackhawk catalog. Nice stuff.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

One set has rings at top, the other a checkered band

 

[thehorse13]

Yep. I know. Have a look at the 37 catalog. They are both in there.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Hmmmm

 

[thehorse13]

Here is a sample from page 19 of the 1937 catalog. There are others in there too.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Found a bunch of blackhawk 1/4 dr sockets in a box I bought. Looks like 2 sets, one set looks older. Any ideas on dates? I don't see date codes so maybe pre 38?

The sockets on the right with the ribbed knurling and the 15XX model numbers - 1506 (3/16") to 1514 (7/16") - are first generation. They are in the 1935 catalog. (EDIT: Note that Blackhawk was not making 1/4-inch sockets in 1931 in the Q.D. era. Not sure when they started.) The sockets on the left with the recessed rings and the 210XX model numbers - 21006 (3/16") to 21014 (/16") - were introduced in 1937 and were in production through at least 1943.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yep. I know. Have a look at the 37 catalog. They are both in there.

Where do you see 15XX series 1/4-inch drive sockets listed in the 1937 catalog, horse? What page?

 

[notlob]

Interested in a trade? PM sent.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

There were a few other bits with them. A 1523 driver, 1525 extension,24996 extension, 24999 breaker with a 24997 crossbar.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The 24XXX handles go with 210XX sockets (see 1937, 1939, or 1943 catalogs) and the 15XX handles go with the 15XX sockets (see 1935 catalog). EDIT: And I might as well say it right now if you don't already know it - don't bother looking for a ratchet for the 15XX set. Blackhawk did not make a 1/4-inch drive ratchet until 1943. They felt the offset handle and the spinner sufficed.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The driver and the 1525 extension are I think original to the earlier sockets, the other pieces I believe look a bit newer. There seems to be parts of a couple different sets here as Lugz has noted

 

[Oldtuleguy]

If only there was a ratchet!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Apparently you didn't see my edit. Or you did and that was a joke.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The rat, introduced in 1943, was 24991.

 

[bigb56]

I went through about 1/2 of this thread and didn't see one of these, it's a one end frame lift. I've owned it for about 30 years. The pics are old, I could get better ones when it's light out.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Yes I missed that! I have noticed blackhawk did not seem too concerned with 1/4 drive. I come across very little of it. That there was no ratchet until 43 does not surprise me.

 

[CRTDI]

These Blackhawk 1/4” sets are quite interesting as they did change up designs for the tools, cases and set configurations from the 30s through the 50s.

My 1941 catalogs depict the 210xx sockets in the earlier 15xx style, but I believe that by 1941 they were already wearing the recessed rings. To my knowledge, this style of socket never had date codes. War time versions wore cad plating though. The 24991 gripline style 1/4” drive ratchet appears in 1941 as well.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My 1941 catalogs depict the 210xx sockets in the earlier 15xx style, but I believe that by 1941 they were already wearing the recessed rings.

I am guessing that this is what's throwing horse off, too, now that I looked at his excerpt from page 19 in the 1937 catalog. But to point out the obvious, Otg's ribbed sockets are marked 15XX and his recessed line sockets are marked 21XXX. If the images in the catalogs are representative of production style, his 21XXX would have ribbed knurling.

If you look at this further, you'll find that the image of a single socket used to depict a 210XX series socket in 1939 is the exact same image they used in the 1935 and the 1937 catalogs, and it is indeed a 15XX style socket (with the ribbed knurling). But note that it's labeled "No. 21006" and, more importantly, there are no 15XX series sockets listed - by model number, size, and price - with the sockets on page 18 in the 1937 or 1939 catalogs, where all the sockets are listed. Only 210XX (12-point) and 211XX (8-point) sockets. You quite literally could not order a 15XX socket from those catalogs. Only 210XX or 211XX.

Now let's go back to the socket figure pages, which is page 19 in both the 1937 and 1939 catalogs. Note that the 211XX socket show is the image of a newer style socket (with the recessed rings). Note further that there are mix of styles (old ribbed knurling and new recessed line) shown in the other drive size sockets as well in both the 1937 and 1939 catalogs. The 1/2- and 3/8-inch drive 12-points are ribbed knurling and the 7/16-inch drive Nuggets are recessed lines.

Is it feasible that Blackhawk had two sets of lines going in 1937 and 1939? One tooled for forging 12-point sockets in the older ribbed knurling style? And another for forging 8-point sockets in the newer recessed lines style? Typically, across the industry, we see different broachings in the same style socket, and in production it's one bit change on a milling machine.

It looks to me like they reused the image of a 15XX 12-point socket, relabeled as a "No. 21006", and created a new image of a 211XX socket and used that as representative for all the 8-point sockets, labeling it "No. 21106", "No. 30106" (3/8-inch drive), and "No. 40210" (1/2-inch drive). All mfgrs are known to reuse type-settings from catalog to catalog that causes identification confusion. Plomb and Bonney have some classic examples in the wartime years.

One thing that would resolve this for sure would be sockets in the ribbed style marked with 21XXX model numbers.

In the 1943 catalog, all the figures of all sockets in all drive sizes have the recessed line style.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

To my knowledge, this style of socket never had date codes. War time versions wore cad plating though.

If you're referring to the recessed lines, yes they did. We use them to date WWII sockets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The 24991 gripline style 1/4” drive ratchet appears in 1941 as well.

Thanks for the information and correction! We don't have a copy of the 1941 catalog in the Tool Archives. In fact, I didn't know there was one, and I shouldn't've spoken so declaratively. Can we talk you into scans for uploading?