The vintage Blackhawk Thread

[Private Lugnutz]

Yeah, the No. 11 midget sets did not have a ratchet, and it was made in 1943. Even if it wasn't date coded, the "Gripline" handle gives that away as much later production than the other pieces.

I have found no record or other examples of a Set No. 11-N, either. But the pattern has a lot of precedence. There are other 6-point sets. The No. 18-A, as opposed to the No. 18-AD, for example. They both came in the small attache case A. The No. 18-AD was 12-points, the No. 18-A was 6-points. Same with the No. 32-CD, set, which came in the regular attache style case C. And its 6-point only version, the No. 32-C. I think we would find the No. 11-N in catalogs we just don't have.

BTW, I posted a few photos on your midget thread before elaborating here.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Good info lugz. I was not aware of the distinction

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I became aware of it when I was refinishing my No. 32-CD set and going through old ads.

Here's a good illustration of the practice.

Pic 1 is an ad from 1930 for a No. 18-AD set. Note the Double-Hex/12-point sockets in the set.

Pic 2 is a photo I have shown a few times before of my old No. 18-A set. Note that the sockets are all Hex/6-pointers.

Now go back and look at the ad in Pic 1 again. Look at the bottom where it lists the price. See the lower-priced optional set No. 18-A? Note that it has 6-point sockets.

I think we need a 1930 catalog. (I believe the catalog labeled as 1930 on ITCL is from 1931, by the way.) I bet it would show a similar situation with all sets, including the No. 11-ND, and the No. 11-N.

Whether the example of the No. 11-N set that 4.c sent me was originally sold with 6-pointers or not, we'll never know. But that's what it was meant to have. I have a hard time believing all the original hex sockets were lost and these eight odd unmarked double-hex sockets and the other oddly unmarked Blackhawk handles that just happen to be the exact correct type and number of tools to make up a No. 11 set just happened to make their way into the case, so I am choosing to believe it's a very early original set that just didnt match its decal. But who really knows?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here are a few. The 11nd the same color as yours has all 12 point sockets, the black 11nd has 6 points for the smaller ones and the 10 set has 6 point for smaller ones as well.

 

[Acgreen]

I have a handful of late 20s blackhawk sockets. Started collecting 3/8th sockets as of recently. good tools.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...the black 11nd has 6 points for the smaller ones and the 10 set has 6 point for smaller ones as well.

That configuration matches the mid 30s catalog contents lists, where the "D" now means mainly Double-hex. That's what I meant by them not being consistent or exclusive about it. And you don't see the all 6-point (no "D") options in the ads or cats anymore later in the 30s, for any set. Also, note the maroon handles on the spinners. All helping date mine to early, I think.

 

[thehorse13]

This used, handsomely-aged, well-maintained Q.D. Wrench Set No. 11-N - a surprise gift from 4.c that arrived at the Lugzsonian yesterday, presents us with a number of intriguing, enigmatic features.

Let’s start with the model number. The “11” indicates the number of pieces – eight (8) sockets and three (3) handles, a 1521 Obstruction Offset, a 1523 Midget Grip Handle, and a 1525 Extension Bar. So far so good. The “N” indicates the type of box. While the compartment configuration changed somewhat over the years on this midget box, which was also used for the 16-ND set (they tucked the open end wrenches in that compartment in the back…), again, so far so good. The lack of a “D” (i.e., 11-ND), which was used to indicate Double-Hex/12-point sockets, is very conspicuous. Blackhawk wasn’t terribly consistent or exclusive about that designation (despite the “D”, plenty of catalogs, ads, and collected examples of No. 11-ND sets often show a couple Hex/6-point sockets, and later, in 1939, six Hex/6-point sockets and a couple Double-Hex/12-point sockets), but intentionally leaving off the “D” is supposed to indicate all Hex/6-point sockets. This set has ALL Double-Hex/12-points.

None of the pieces except the spinner (Midget Grip Handle) are marked. There is little to no doubt they are Blackhawk, but the sockets, extension, and obstruction offset handle bear no Blackhawk branding or model numbers, and there aren't even sizes on the sockets.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing this extension before in a catalog, ad, or actual specimen. The female end is press-fit! I considered the possibility that it was perhaps not Blackhawk, perhaps not even factory, and not original to the set, but it is exactly 5” OAL, which is spec for the 1525, has a collar on the male drive stud end identical to the collar on the 1523 spinner, and has the same highly-polished chrome finish as the other pieces. Even the knurling matches the knurling on the spinner and the obstruction offset handle.

I have to get on the same status level as the Lugzonian. I can only dream of people sending me awesome Blackhawk sets for the horse stable.

Outstanding set. Yes, I'm very jealous.

 

[four.cycle]

http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=26334.0;topicseen
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=26331.0;topicseen

 

[thehorse13]

1,000 bucks for a Nugget set? I think I have my pick for the first tool brand that we're going to see Chinese reproduction examples.

 

[four.cycle]

if I was in Kansas....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363352569561

 

[thehorse13]

if I was in Kansas....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363352569561

I always watch those box auctions, often surprised at the total spend people are willing to drop on a shipped item.

I agree that if I was local to the seller, I would be inclined to bid.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I have to get on the same status level as the Lugzonian. I can only dream of people sending me awesome Blackhawk sets for the horse stable.

Outstanding set. Yes, I'm very jealous.

Thanks, Horse. Yes, when I said I was accepting donations to the Lugzsonian and put out that coin cup in one of my first posts in my virtual tour thread, I was just kidding! Seriously, though, the box was accompanied by a note of appreciation that modesty prevents me from sharing, but I will soon be returning the favor with a set I know he doesn't have, not in exchange for the 11-N set, but for the same reason.

1,000 bucks for a Nugget set?

I don't see the photos on the Tool Talk thread for some reason, but that seems high, even for mint-y condition. $700 for an empty torpedo box also seems high to me. Partial Nugget sets, no box, were selling for $200 max a few years ago, and empty boxes in good condition for that kind of money, so I can see $700 for a complete Nuggets set in box. I guess I talked myself into $1,000 for mint-y complete set with 1 owner provenance.

 

[thehorse13]

Thanks, Horse. Yes, when I said I was accepting donations to the Lugzsonian and put out that coin cup in one of my first posts in my virtual tour thread, I was just kidding! Seriously, though, the box was accompanied by a note of appreciation that modesty prevents me from sharing, but I will soon be returning the favor with a set I know he doesn't have, not in exchange for the 11-N set, but for the same reason.


I don't see the photos on the Tool Talk thread for some reason, but that seems high, even for mint-y condition. $700 for an empty torpedo box also seems high to me. Partial Nugget sets, no box, were selling for $200 max a few years ago, and empty boxes in good condition for that kind of money, so I can see $700 for a complete Nuggets set in box. I guess I talked myself into $1,000 for mint-y complete set with 1 owner provenance.

Your wish is my command. Here are the pics.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks. Nice kit. Near complete. Lots of original paint, with little wear, no rust, and a decent, mostly intact decal. But not mint-y. I would think $350 right circumstance (flea, estate sale), $500 fair (informed market), $700 maybe, but $1,000 steep. But there are some deep pockets out there. A complete, original Britool master wrench set in it's original three drawer drop front type top chest sold for $3,000 recently in the UK. So you just never know.

 

[y'sguy]

I always watch those box auctions, often surprised at the total spend people are willing to drop on a shipped item.

I agree that if I was local to the seller, I would be inclined to bid.

Interesting to me just to watch this. My box is similar to this. And I consider myself close. (trying to remind myself I do not need another!)

 

[Farmer J.]

A complete, original Britool master wrench set in it's original three drawer drop front type top chest sold for $3,000 recently in the UK. So you just never know.

It's not sold, yet!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Britool-...ol-Socket-Spanner-Set-1960s-Rare/133685258625
There's currently 27 people watching it, I'm one of them just to see what will happen..

The 'one-owner-most-sockets-never-used' Blackhawk Caterpillar Serviceman's set is still for sale as well, it's been listed for a few weeks now although the price has dropped a bit to £613.
It's not too far from me about an hours drive away so a bit tempting..

 

[Dave455]

It's not sold, yet!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Britool-...ol-Socket-Spanner-Set-1960s-Rare/133685258625
There's currently 27 people watching it, I'm one of them just to see what will happen..

The 'one-owner-most-sockets-never-used' Blackhawk Caterpillar Serviceman's set is still for sale as well, it's been listed for a few weeks now although the price has dropped a bit to £613.
It's not too far from me about an hours drive away so a bit tempting..

The Universal Service Set is definitely priced at “all the money”.

That Blackhawk set is very very tempting though.

Shame the box isn’t in better shape externally, but it soon could be!

 

[CRTDI]

This used, handsomely-aged, well-maintained Q.D. Wrench Set No. 11-N - a surprise gift from 4.c that arrived at the Lugzsonian yesterday, presents us with a number of intriguing, enigmatic features.

Don't recall ever seeing the early spinner handles in black.

That's a really nice set...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Don't recall ever seeing the early spinner handles in black.

That's a really nice set...

Me neither. Were they black later? Please weigh in if you have different thoughts than my dating logic. You know these sets and catalogs as well as anyone. I didn't know what else to make of the combination of that decal, no markings on the sockets or tools except the spinner, the black handle, and that bizarre OOAK extension. It's almost like they didn't have all the kinks worked out yet. Like it was that early.

And thanks!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I think that is early

 

[thehorse13]

Since we were discussing prices of Blackhawk stuff lately, and specifically, this box listed on Ebay...

Holy moly. Someone went almost 500 dollars deep into this (with shipping)...I wonder if it was a GJ member.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Saw that. I guess someone wanted it!

 

[Farmer J.]

Since we were discussing prices of Blackhawk stuff lately, and specifically, this box listed on Ebay...

Holy moly. Someone went almost 500 dollars deep into this (with shipping)...I wonder if it was a GJ member.

That makes the one I have seem good value! And another one complete with a load of tools can be had for not a lot more money, if collected from London!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caterpil...y-Blackhawk-MPG-Co-For-Mechanics/124678965006

 

[y'sguy]

Since we were discussing prices of Blackhawk stuff lately, and specifically, this box listed on Ebay...

Holy moly. Someone went almost 500 dollars deep into this (with shipping)...I wonder if it was a GJ member.

Good for them. Interesting to see what it went for. Satisfying I think to know what someone is willing to pay for something you have an interest in as well. I'm really grateful my setup is all done as far as I'm concerned.

I have still only seen two-three others like it in existence. I know there's more out there. writing about the lower set not the top set I have.

 

[OldNeons]

With the help of CRTDI I chased down this old porto power bench. 800 mile road trip. It's full of old iron for using the press and several porto power pieces.



It is now in it's new home in my Blackhawk collection area in the party garage



2021-03-10 14.35.53 by Ann Long, on Flickr



It sits next to the tool box that showed up last week.



2021-03-10 14.35.36 by Ann Long, on Flickr



.

Great find on that Blackhawk tool cart Don. I’d love to find one of those to match with my Porto power carts like you did!

 

[thehorse13]

Anyone looking for a hot deal on a Nuggets bomb box set? lol

This appears to be the box that was actively being discussed on another tool page. Looks like they decided that a grand wasn't enough.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Only 80$ a month for 24 months! Where do I sign......

 

[four.cycle]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124685881413





this will be an interesting one to watch.

after another member here telling me that some fool paid him $116. for a handful of old Craftsman open-end wrenches, nothing would surprise me.

 

[Shelbylex]

Wow! And I can not sell a mix of vintage Blue Point, Craftsman and New Britain for $2/piece : )

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Wow. For 1650 you don't even get free shipping.

 

[don long]

I hope he gets it so I can feel pretty good about mine
His tool set is not complete either

 

[four.cycle]

You guys wouldn't believe me if I told you, so....



https://www.ebay.com/itm/124685881413

(* item originally listed on ebay 04/17/21 * )

 

[JoCoSawdust]

That makes me a happy camper!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I guess my nuggets hoarding has paid off!

 

[Shelbylex]

So, judging by the original ad this person "Just acquired from the 90 year old man that bought this new in the 1940’s".
Resellers are driving the prices crazy...

 

[four.cycle]

provides me the impetus to get with the program and start selling stuff!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is an odd little blackhawk 3/8 open gear ratchet

 

[four.cycle]

these might prove interesting to watch.

 

[thehorse13]

these might prove interesting to watch.

That 11ND set will hit the moon. Thank God I have one already. I wonder why we are seeing such a sharp vertical rise in Blackhawk prices lately though.

I'm still scratching my head on who dropped around 1,800 dollars (with shipping + taxes) on an incomplete 30K Nugget bomb box set.

Picture added from the auction for documentation purposes.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That 11ND set will hit the moon. Thank God I have one already. I wonder why we are seeing such a sharp vertical rise in Blackhawk prices lately though.

I don't think it's sharp or lately, horse. I think it can seem that way in relationship to our own low price points, memory or perspective. I agree that $50 is high for a starting point on a midget set, and it could go much higher, but they have sold for at least that and more in the past even if they started much lower. Heck, a very similar and similarly imperfect 16-ND "Chief" set sold for $132 two years ago. Maybe you missed that. It was missing all its electrical wrenches, but it included a ratchet and flex head, which were not part of the original set. Just like that 16-ND "Chief" set, this 11-ND "Chief" set is missing some pieces (an extension), but includes some extras (the obstruction offset, obviously, and just as obviously a few extra sockets). Would-be buyers would be wise to ask the sizes, if they're not listed, to make sure that at least the original eight (8) sockets are there and it's not a bunch of dupes. What the $132 16-ND set and this 11-ND set have in common are very nice decals. And that often has much more to do with price than we may like to think.

The Nuggets box and set was surely a notable spike. Whether it becomes the new going rate remains to be seen. I have my doubts.