Moe's garage
Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2013
- Messages
- 11
I have been quietly reading your thread but just wanted to say I'm very happy for you, congratulations.
The wet garage raise
- Thread starter Sparkynutz
- Start date
m32825
Well-known member
Great work, congratulations and thanks for the update!
-- Carl
-- Carl
garagelogician
Well-known member
Great job man! Rest easy tonight...the hard work is done. You guys did get done fast, which I think is what your primary problem was in getting contractors to do the work. To them, it would've been more hassle than it was worth, especially since you did all the form work... Which is where contractors like that make most of their money.What I learned-
Rowing as a team is easier than dumping wheelbarrows.
Don't put rebar so high in form. 6 inches or more from top would have made a huge difference instead of 2-3 inches I had. That would have made pushing the concrete to corners easier and faster.
Don't waste time trying to use a ******** after forms are full if you have banding or strapping across top of form. It just splashes and putting it against outside does nothing too. If you use one. Do it while forms are 1/2 to 3/4 full. I didn't know this but was planning on trying to do it at 1/2 way and slipped my mind. It would have been too difficult in my application with beams, cribbing, banding, wheelbarrows and people in the way trying to get concrete into the forms. I had no clock handy or concept of time with the adrenaline running and thinking getting all the concrete into the forms in time was going to be down to the wire.
Buckets work better than wheelbarrows too and aren't as heavy as you think. If you work as a team. Something we didn't accel at very well the truck could have kept pumping with two guys filling and two guys dumping buckets and a 5th guy manning the chute scraper. Things were way harder than they could have been with everyone having their own idea and doing it. If everyone would have slowed down and listened to me things would have gone smoother and easier. Some of the guys realized this and asked why they did what they did making it harder work than needed to be. In the end it didn't matter and all the forms were filled in record time. 1hr and 3 minutes from start to washing out the chutes.
Don't trust plastic tubing to stay straight enough to keep rods lined up. I raised garage extra for more pouring room which was a good thing. We needed the extra room. Many of the tube bent and rods were waaay off. Luckily I noticed it and lowered and straightened garage with my plumb bobs while concrete was still soft enough to move ok.
Try not to waste concrete. It could have ended badly. They only sent 6 yards according to bill and I asked for 6.5 yards both times I called. There was only 2 full wheelbarrows left after walls were full. Just enough to do driveway triangle and a couple buckets for canopy hold downs.
Don't plan pour so close to winter. I didn't have enough time this morning to apply the bonding adhesive. Shouldn't go anywhere with all the rebar anyways. I wanted to but just didn't have time.
Don't count on any contractors whatsoever. I will be renting everything needed and doing all the rest of my concrete myself with help.
Luckily it turned out to be a beautiful day and pretty sure it will cure well tonight especially with garage lowered to about 28 inches somewhat protecting the top.
The slab wasn't even cold this morning. Rebar on the other hand was.
Tomorrow is cleanup time.
Huge mess that's for sure.
Time to relax get a movie with my daughter and make a pizza.
My wife and son went to bring the ******** back and do some bumming around and out to eat.
Here's a few pics to tide you over till video is done.
Oh ya. And driveway didn't crack anywhere either. Woohoo.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Attachments
Finallygotit
ALLIANCE MEMBER
smalltown
Well-known member
Glad to read it came out well. Relax you have earned it. Now that your done I bet the contractors start back calling saying we are ready to do you pour !
Last edited:
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
AWESOME! Super congratulations!
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
SWEET!!! Glad you had good weather.
How long does the concrete have to set before you can remove the forms?
Any special treatment required for the top after pouring (water, cover with plastic, ...)?
How long does the concrete have to set before you can remove the forms?
Any special treatment required for the top after pouring (water, cover with plastic, ...)?
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
Prolly plastic tonight anyways then remove inside forms tomorrow
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
adbanshee
Active member
Congratulations! We have just had the slab and foundations poured for our new shop (85 yards) and the building was delivered today. It has been one of the most stressful things I have had to deal with in years, even though for the most part things went smoothly. What you have just been through must have been truly horrible, but you have persevered, made it through, and now you should be able to see the finish line!
1949 caddyman
Well-known member
Yes! Great news!
RSr
Well-known member
jammin on the 1
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I wrote thankyou notes for the guys with $50 and all but one of the guys was mad at me and tried to give it back. I told them I appreciated the help and that's still less than I woulda payed someone to do it.
I offered the form work to everyone I called but contractor #1 and 2 both didn't want it and said they'd pour if I did the forms so I did. 90% of the contractors I called didn't even call back.
Doesn't matter now it's done
I pulled plastic off the walls and layed it over the top of wall best I could with all the bolts holding it back some.
Then I had a bunch of spare 14ft 2x4's I stood on side and pushed tight against siding on outside.
The garage is lower than I realized. Less than 3" above the wall.
Garage door area I tossed down 2 sheets of 2" foam and put a rock on it.
The concrete was already pretty hard from what I could tell.
I assume forms should come off tomorrow or atleast start removing some of the braces.
Time for a big bonfire tomorrow night.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I offered the form work to everyone I called but contractor #1 and 2 both didn't want it and said they'd pour if I did the forms so I did. 90% of the contractors I called didn't even call back.
Doesn't matter now it's done
I pulled plastic off the walls and layed it over the top of wall best I could with all the bolts holding it back some.
Then I had a bunch of spare 14ft 2x4's I stood on side and pushed tight against siding on outside.
The garage is lower than I realized. Less than 3" above the wall.
Garage door area I tossed down 2 sheets of 2" foam and put a rock on it.
The concrete was already pretty hard from what I could tell.
I assume forms should come off tomorrow or atleast start removing some of the braces.
Time for a big bonfire tomorrow night.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
MikeF2316
Well-known member
Now you have a great story, and are an expert. And while there are still lots of details to take care of, you get to pat yourself on the back every time your yard is squishy wet and your garage is bone dry!
ambenz
Well-known member
Congrats on getting to this point in the fix, pretty interesting watching from the sidelines.
I actually thought the rise would have been higher when I originally saw the driveway pictures.
No recommendations from me as I will not be that backseat contractor.
Keep up the good work!
I actually thought the rise would have been higher when I originally saw the driveway pictures.
No recommendations from me as I will not be that backseat contractor.
Keep up the good work!
Erampu
Well-known member
Huzzah! Well done, sir!
AZ Pete
Well-known member
Well done!
wssix99
Well-known member
Congratulations.
That's hot.
After building my concrete house I snapped a picture of 3 guys, my wife, and a 4 foot ********. When I tell people at work that I have that picture, everyone gets interested for some reason?
That's hot.
After building my concrete house I snapped a picture of 3 guys, my wife, and a 4 foot ********. When I tell people at work that I have that picture, everyone gets interested for some reason?
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
Could have gone higher but that would be more $ fill but a wash probably because I wouldn't have to redo side driveway.
The main reason for the 24" height is just about max I could get away with this close to the house and basement window and have a reasonable grade to backyard and not mess with the deck too much.
I already removed the bottom step and will be raising grade there 8"
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
Most likely doesn't pay as well tho and it would get old too fast.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I watched videos. Pretty dissapointing. No video at all of when I talked them into stopping screwing around with wheelbarrows and try and get chute to sidewall and push it into and around back corners. It just barely reached but was soooo much easier. The problem was that went so much quicker my wife was starting second batch of food and didn't get any more video until after all of that was done. Too late now. Maybe next time I can try and talk my son into taking the video or just set up a game camera to take pics every minute from the corner.
I checked weather. It's supposed to stay above freezing next two days and rain. Perfect weather for cleaning up inside of garage.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I checked weather. It's supposed to stay above freezing next two days and rain. Perfect weather for cleaning up inside of garage.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
lakeroadster
Well-known member
In the near distance, in Wisconsin, I hear a fat lady singing.
ford33
Well-known member
Congratulations on the successful effort today.
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
Laying in bed and wife asks. "When are you taking forms off?" I was planning on tomorrow or next day but searched some info on it and a lot of places recommended a 3-7 days to prevent drying too quickly and cracking. Some recommended keeping wet also. Well, back out of bed I go. I dumped 1/2 a bucket of water on driveway triangle and covered with random pink insulation I had laying around.
Then I put 2 gallons of water on top of poured wall under plastic which had only been on a little while but had lots of condensation on underside.
Plastic earlier was probably a good thing.
Now I'm wide awake and wife is sleeping. Time for a scary movie and a snack.
I'll probably wait until middle of next week to remove forms and keep wetting everything for another day or two.
My uncle did concrete for 20+ years when he was younger but sure doesn't do any of the best practices I've learned about doing this project. Glad I researched instead of just going off what he typically says.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Then I put 2 gallons of water on top of poured wall under plastic which had only been on a little while but had lots of condensation on underside.
Plastic earlier was probably a good thing.
Now I'm wide awake and wife is sleeping. Time for a scary movie and a snack.
I'll probably wait until middle of next week to remove forms and keep wetting everything for another day or two.
My uncle did concrete for 20+ years when he was younger but sure doesn't do any of the best practices I've learned about doing this project. Glad I researched instead of just going off what he typically says.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Attachments
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
No harm in leaving the forms a couple days. Best wishes!
jon72vega
Well-known member
Sparkynutz,
I've been following this from the beginning, but haven't posted till now.
Congrats on finally getting the pour completed!
It's an accomplishment that you can be proud of!
I've been following this from the beginning, but haven't posted till now.
Congrats on finally getting the pour completed!
It's an accomplishment that you can be proud of!
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I fell asleep during movie and now it's raining. That should help slow the cure.
Thinking about what should have been done different.
I should not have let driver put more water in when my uncle asked him to. It was already wet enough and I told my uncle that as he asked for more water. I should have spoke up but didn't because I thought he knew better than I did. I hope I don't have issues because of that.
I should have stopped everyone and took charge and set the pace instead of expecting everyone to know what to do and let my uncle set the pace faster and sloppier than it should have been. He dumped two wheelbarrows trying to take too much and instead of waiting for help just dumped the rest of wheelbarrows quickly which dumped it right over top of form and out the other side. I kept saying let's use buckets for back and get chute to sides and not even use wheelbarrows. He kept telling driver what to do and I should have spoke up.
Knowing what I know now I realize why my first house driveway turned out so terribly. Everything I questioned my uncle from my research on he blew off as unnessisary steps and I listened to him assuming his experience and my lack there of was just slowing down the job.
I should have stopped and used ******** along the way as well or had my uncle doing that instead of flying around dumping overloaded wheelbarrows.
It's too late now and all I can do is hope for the best. No amount of stressing can change the mistakes I've made and allowed him to make deviating from best practices to achieve the best pour possible. I should have been more clear with my wife on doing the video and had a backup plan to taking it when she couldn't. Trail camera etc.
As well as I planned I could have planned better and I made way more mistakes than I should have.
When I pour the slab next spring I'm tempted to pour it myself with friends and not tell my uncle until after its already down so he can help doing finishing only.
Better yet I should find someone else that needs help and get the experience before doing my own slab. My garage can stay gravel for a while until I'm ready to do the quality job that should be done.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Thinking about what should have been done different.
I should not have let driver put more water in when my uncle asked him to. It was already wet enough and I told my uncle that as he asked for more water. I should have spoke up but didn't because I thought he knew better than I did. I hope I don't have issues because of that.
I should have stopped everyone and took charge and set the pace instead of expecting everyone to know what to do and let my uncle set the pace faster and sloppier than it should have been. He dumped two wheelbarrows trying to take too much and instead of waiting for help just dumped the rest of wheelbarrows quickly which dumped it right over top of form and out the other side. I kept saying let's use buckets for back and get chute to sides and not even use wheelbarrows. He kept telling driver what to do and I should have spoke up.
Knowing what I know now I realize why my first house driveway turned out so terribly. Everything I questioned my uncle from my research on he blew off as unnessisary steps and I listened to him assuming his experience and my lack there of was just slowing down the job.
I should have stopped and used ******** along the way as well or had my uncle doing that instead of flying around dumping overloaded wheelbarrows.
It's too late now and all I can do is hope for the best. No amount of stressing can change the mistakes I've made and allowed him to make deviating from best practices to achieve the best pour possible. I should have been more clear with my wife on doing the video and had a backup plan to taking it when she couldn't. Trail camera etc.
As well as I planned I could have planned better and I made way more mistakes than I should have.
When I pour the slab next spring I'm tempted to pour it myself with friends and not tell my uncle until after its already down so he can help doing finishing only.
Better yet I should find someone else that needs help and get the experience before doing my own slab. My garage can stay gravel for a while until I'm ready to do the quality job that should be done.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
captain14
Well-known member
I have followed your thread since the beginning. Great to have it done and you’ve learned a lot about this Process.
Too Bad you had so many issues with the contractors giving you the run Around.
After you edit your video, maybe you could Write up your thoughts on what went right and what went long in one post starting from the beginning.
Thanks for sharing this job. It’s something I never would have attempted, especially with cold weather staring you in the face.
Too Bad you had so many issues with the contractors giving you the run Around.
After you edit your video, maybe you could Write up your thoughts on what went right and what went long in one post starting from the beginning.
Thanks for sharing this job. It’s something I never would have attempted, especially with cold weather staring you in the face.
MikeF2316
Well-known member
I think you're being way too hard on yourself. There's way more concrete there than is necessary to do the job that's required. You know where every little detail flaw is, but they really won't matter in the long run.
You really should become a concrete contractor. Then you could ignore people's phone calls. You could blow off jobs you don't want. You could pronounce on the quality of form work you haven't even seen. And you could get some practice for your own slab!
You've also exposed a problem with free labour - they're your friends, you're not paying them anything so you don't want to tell them "do this, do that" too much, even though it's necessary on this type of job.
My only suggestion at this point is to make sure you put a good waterproofing system on the outside. I'm not sure what best practices are, but I don't think you want to let water build up between the 2 slabs.
You really should become a concrete contractor. Then you could ignore people's phone calls. You could blow off jobs you don't want. You could pronounce on the quality of form work you haven't even seen. And you could get some practice for your own slab!
You've also exposed a problem with free labour - they're your friends, you're not paying them anything so you don't want to tell them "do this, do that" too much, even though it's necessary on this type of job.
My only suggestion at this point is to make sure you put a good waterproofing system on the outside. I'm not sure what best practices are, but I don't think you want to let water build up between the 2 slabs.
ford33
Well-known member
You're too hard on yourself. No job is going to be perfect. Managing free labor and friends is different than hired employee's.
I would have a cordial "lessons learned" talk with your uncle. He helped you earlier in the construction process and feels connected to you and this job. Perhaps he felt you were not managing the team because he was there and previous work you let him manage it.
Discussing the management of the team and the quality of work expected would help both of you on the next phase of this project. Don't lose a friendly uncle who helps you over a concrete wall. Not worth it.
Keep the forms on for now. Research how long it takes for the concrete to cure in this colder weather.
I would have a cordial "lessons learned" talk with your uncle. He helped you earlier in the construction process and feels connected to you and this job. Perhaps he felt you were not managing the team because he was there and previous work you let him manage it.
Discussing the management of the team and the quality of work expected would help both of you on the next phase of this project. Don't lose a friendly uncle who helps you over a concrete wall. Not worth it.
Keep the forms on for now. Research how long it takes for the concrete to cure in this colder weather.
D45
Well-known member
I think leaving the forms on longer is a good idea, when you stated earlier that you wanted to take the forms off today I cringed (not knowing anything about concrete)
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I'm not worried about losing my uncles help. We help each other often on many other things where quality is no concern.
He likes to get things done as quickly as possible and a very focused hardworker. I'm one of the few people he will take a breath and listen to. It's my fault I didn't speak up louder. He helped me on my siding, windows and roof at old house and I stopped and said no this is how I want this done even tho many times he suggested I was doing unnecessary extra steps. I didn't care. I wanted it done as I had researched prior to doing the job. Sometimes I had to listen and improvise tho in example of me using the ******** on the concrete post pour. He said use a hammer and bang on the forms it's too late. The rest of the guys I've known for 10 years plus and have no issue deligating when we work together on joint projects at work to get things running quickly. We work well as a team when we both know what we are doing or brainstorm to get things running. They call me to help them get running when they can't figure it out so I tell them what I need them to help with and they jump right in. Great group of easy going guys. I hope to return the favor helping them out some day.
Hopefully I over planned enough on size and rebar that any my mistakes don't affect stability once garage is back down.
I work way to much and for the most part enjoy my job too much to leave and do concrete full time. I will however find someone that needs a hand before doing mine for sure even if that means calling some of the really big places and ask to work and job shadow a few days here and there.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
He likes to get things done as quickly as possible and a very focused hardworker. I'm one of the few people he will take a breath and listen to. It's my fault I didn't speak up louder. He helped me on my siding, windows and roof at old house and I stopped and said no this is how I want this done even tho many times he suggested I was doing unnecessary extra steps. I didn't care. I wanted it done as I had researched prior to doing the job. Sometimes I had to listen and improvise tho in example of me using the ******** on the concrete post pour. He said use a hammer and bang on the forms it's too late. The rest of the guys I've known for 10 years plus and have no issue deligating when we work together on joint projects at work to get things running quickly. We work well as a team when we both know what we are doing or brainstorm to get things running. They call me to help them get running when they can't figure it out so I tell them what I need them to help with and they jump right in. Great group of easy going guys. I hope to return the favor helping them out some day.
Hopefully I over planned enough on size and rebar that any my mistakes don't affect stability once garage is back down.
I work way to much and for the most part enjoy my job too much to leave and do concrete full time. I will however find someone that needs a hand before doing mine for sure even if that means calling some of the really big places and ask to work and job shadow a few days here and there.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
lakeroadster
Well-known member
How much did they add... and did you get the mix sheet from the truck driver? Armed with those two pieces of information you can tell the impact of the added water..... as discussed here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353845&highlight=concrete
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
Air % is blank, Water added is blank, slump ordered says 5 and should have been 4 and yards ordered says 6 and should have been 6.5. The product listed is a 10 digit mix number 4010110016 and description 4000-11-10FW-AE no idea what that means.
I've never ever seen a slump done in person and seen concrete poured many times and helped with about a half dozen wheeling jobs when I was younger and didn't pay much attention. I was a gopher.
I have no idea how much water was added. My uncle told driver "give it a drink" and that's all I know.
Is wet curing a bad idea if it was already too wet? I'm really just trying to do what I think I should be doing with no actual experience to know if correct or not.
I've also read threads on here about popped slabs from over working it. I definitely don't want to do that and afraid maybe my uncle did the wall already going over it probably 5 times with his mag and edger when it was really really wet at the top and me edging one last time after it was mostly set about 4 hours after the pour.
I definitely have some learning to do before doing a slab that's for sure.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I've never ever seen a slump done in person and seen concrete poured many times and helped with about a half dozen wheeling jobs when I was younger and didn't pay much attention. I was a gopher.
I have no idea how much water was added. My uncle told driver "give it a drink" and that's all I know.
Is wet curing a bad idea if it was already too wet? I'm really just trying to do what I think I should be doing with no actual experience to know if correct or not.
I've also read threads on here about popped slabs from over working it. I definitely don't want to do that and afraid maybe my uncle did the wall already going over it probably 5 times with his mag and edger when it was really really wet at the top and me edging one last time after it was mostly set about 4 hours after the pour.
I definitely have some learning to do before doing a slab that's for sure.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
It's always worth some self analysis so you can improve your efforts next time around.
But while it can be hard to let go, don't sweat the past too much.
I had some regrets about some of the concrete work here, but in the end, it's now done and am OK with it.
I remember watching a fat guy on his floats playing with his phone for a long time on the slab. I was annoyed but didn't say anything. Now there is a low spot there!
I know I've learned a lot, but I learn more every time.
I strongly believe the guys with "perfect" concrete are the guys who don't look very closely. I had guys tell me, yeah, absolutely, I can make it perfectly level and flat. And then I said I'd check with an 8' straight edge and I wanted less than an 1/8" gap, and none wanted the job anymore.
Expect some exposed voids and just patch them. ;-)
Again, great effort. Really impressive you made this happen yourself.
But while it can be hard to let go, don't sweat the past too much.
I had some regrets about some of the concrete work here, but in the end, it's now done and am OK with it.
I remember watching a fat guy on his floats playing with his phone for a long time on the slab. I was annoyed but didn't say anything. Now there is a low spot there!
I know I've learned a lot, but I learn more every time.
I strongly believe the guys with "perfect" concrete are the guys who don't look very closely. I had guys tell me, yeah, absolutely, I can make it perfectly level and flat. And then I said I'd check with an 8' straight edge and I wanted less than an 1/8" gap, and none wanted the job anymore.
Expect some exposed voids and just patch them. ;-)
Again, great effort. Really impressive you made this happen yourself.
lakeroadster
Well-known member
Two different issues.
At this point, forget about the pour itself and if it had to much water. Without the mix sheet, and confirmation of water added, just assume it's ok.
As for wet curing, it's not a slab, it's basically a foundation wall. With the forms in place, and the current weather (cool) it should be fine as is.
I'd wait 7 days before lowering the building... and if you are using anchor bolts, don't tighten the nuts until 28 days from the pour.
TractorJeff
Well-known member
Leave the forms on too long and they won't come off easily(2 to 3 days is plenty). As far as wetting the top, its not necessary as the top is the only way for the moisture to escape. This cool weather will make it cure slower alleviating cracking. Not that you should have shrinkage cracks anyways.
As far as Uncle, yes you probably should have stepped up, as far as the rest of the Team a pre-game talk would have been your best bet. As far as the wife and video, I had a 12yd slab poured here. Not once did she bother to take a photo.
Women just don't get it and see stuff like Men do!
As far as Uncle, yes you probably should have stepped up, as far as the rest of the Team a pre-game talk would have been your best bet. As far as the wife and video, I had a 12yd slab poured here. Not once did she bother to take a photo.
Women just don't get it and see stuff like Men do!
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I really appreciate all the helpful input and encouragement.
I will clean things up next few days removing bracing and as many bolts and screws as possible without removing forms just yet.
I took some larger chunks of spilled concrete and dropped them on the floor from about 3 feet they were very brittle breaking into a lot of pieces easily. Kinda scary the wall is probably that brittle too.
I tried to pull a few of the hoses off the bolts but they are stuck pretty bad. I might be better off waiting a few weeks to lower garage without fear of damage from pulling as hard as needed on the hoses to remove them.
It's supposed to be in the 20s next week. I think I will get the sill seal in place and lower down to just barely touching it without pressure.
The driveway gravel wasn't compacted like I wanted and tempted to just put a lot of that in to fill garage and compact well in the process then replace what gravel is used afterwards. The question is do I do that now or wait until spring and what do I compact with? Is a plate compactor enough? By the time I rent one for all the lifts and other concrete work in the future if that will compact acceptable enough I might be better off just buying one and selling it when completed.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I will clean things up next few days removing bracing and as many bolts and screws as possible without removing forms just yet.
I took some larger chunks of spilled concrete and dropped them on the floor from about 3 feet they were very brittle breaking into a lot of pieces easily. Kinda scary the wall is probably that brittle too.
I tried to pull a few of the hoses off the bolts but they are stuck pretty bad. I might be better off waiting a few weeks to lower garage without fear of damage from pulling as hard as needed on the hoses to remove them.
It's supposed to be in the 20s next week. I think I will get the sill seal in place and lower down to just barely touching it without pressure.
The driveway gravel wasn't compacted like I wanted and tempted to just put a lot of that in to fill garage and compact well in the process then replace what gravel is used afterwards. The question is do I do that now or wait until spring and what do I compact with? Is a plate compactor enough? By the time I rent one for all the lifts and other concrete work in the future if that will compact acceptable enough I might be better off just buying one and selling it when completed.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk