The wet garage raise

[ambenz]

Just staple up some cheap plastic, old shower curtains, paint tarps for the winter.
Good job on the touchdown...nice!

 

[JohnnieMo]

I wish wish wish wish I had done option 1 or 3. I used batting in the rafters because I thought I would want to save the storage space. In the end it was a nightmare. My trusses weren't evenly spaced and it was impossible to get the batts to stay in.

If you want to do the back of the roof I'd suggest spray foam. It's not ideal with your ridge vent but it could work. I'd think cutting and fitting foam would be a big project. If you did hg o that route why not just glue them in?

 

[Sparkynutz]

Well. I tried to get a full sheet slid into trusses with no luck. I was able to get a broken sheet 30"x8' or so up there but couldnt turn it and the middle W is in the way to fit anything more than a 6' sheet up there. It does seem like more screwing around than its worth just for easier attic storage.
I've been looking at a few other ideas on youtube and this forum.
My favorite being sheeting the underside of ceiling with 1" maybe 2" foil faced polyiso then blow in 3-1/2" on top of that. More would be better but until wiring is done I will need to be able to see trusses to know where I can step when up there.
Can the polyiso support blow in insulation on top of it or would I need furring strips as extra support or drywall, plywood, roofing tin? If I need extra sheeting support under I could just use my 2" white expanded polystyrene for ceiling instead of buying the polyiso.


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[roscoe2000]

I would stay away from polyiso for the ceiling unless it is fire rated.

 

[AZ Pete]

Could you fab. A cable raceway for current and future wiring. Then insulate around that?

 

[Vintage Veloce]

I'm not familiar with polyiso... but if the shiny side is supposed to be a radiant barrier...Note that the radiant barrier feature of the shiny side does NOT work if it is in contact with something. Radiant barrier needs an air gap.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I read that polyiso is flame retardant and I'd put the foil faced side down to radiate heat back into floors space if i used it. Thought about boxed in raceway as well.

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[ambenz]

Like you, I was waiting to install outlets, lighting, and furnace chimney.
So I have polyiso on my ceiling...for over 10 years now...LOL!
The stuff is pretty beefy and if you use fender washers and maybe 1X3 on the edges, I don't see why you can't blow insulation on top of it in the attic.
I just have the polyiso up, that's it!
I also have a underrated ventless furnace running....really works well for me.
In this picture you can see the foil face showing....

 

[Sparkynutz]

I was also thinking maybe run the sheets opposite direction the ceiling goes leaving a 4 inch gap covered by a 1x6 screwed to hold the sheets in place and easily remove to run wiring then blow insulation only after my wiring is completed.

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[Vintage Veloce]

Actually, the shiny side DOESN'T radiate heat, if it is working correctly.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Actually, the shiny side DOESN'T radiate heat, if it is working correctly.

Shouldnt it reflect radiant heat? Its not a heat source itself so it wont radiate any of its own heat.

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[Vintage Veloce]

Shouldnt it reflect radiant heat? Its not a heat source itself so it wont radiate any of its own heat.

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I'm pretty sure radiant barrier is about the emissivity, not reflectivity. Even is it is shiny. ;-)

On the bottom surface of your ceiling, it would help prevent attic heat from radiating into the garage space.

I don't think it would substantially prevent warm air in the garage from heating the ceiling. That would be conduction from the hot air of the garage to the ceiling (not radiation).

 

[Sparkynutz]

Ive never even heard that word before and had to look it up. Way above my head... literally. I wasnt even thinking about keeping hot attic heat out of garage just keeping garage heat out of attic.
With two big garage doors and big windows I doubt summer heat will be much issue as I'll most likely have something if not everything open while working in there.
My biggest concern is keeping winter heat in occupied space and sheeting material strong enough to not sag when holding blow in insulation up for many years.

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[Vintage Veloce]

I'd think most of that heat loss, through your ceiling would be conducted.

Heat moves 3 ways: convection (think moving air), conduction (think transmission through contact), radiation (think the heat you feel on your face from the sun, or bright light).

Radiant barrier deals with radiation. Convection is dealt with my sealing all the openings. Conduction is dealt with by insulation.

Radiation is unlikely to be much of a problem from inside the garage. Most people use radiant barrier under the roof, to prevent the hot roof surface from radiating into the attic. As I live in San Diego, I did this with my garage, but haven't been particularly impressed with the results.

 

[Sparkynutz]

We had 50+ mph winds last night and windy today and tomorrow yet too. I lost a few sheets of foam from outside that snapped right off where I had **** piled against it to hold it in place. Luckily they were still in my yard. I'm sure glad the garage is set down. My house was creaking worse than the garage from the wind. The neighbors huge pine trees were really swaying and lost a bunch of branches into my yard. If they fall it will probably be on garage and I sure hope not after all this work.

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[Sparkynutz]

I have been researching more about insulating ceiling and have another idea. Fasten basicly anything to the ceiling trusses in an upside down T and cut the 2" foam to fit and just sit on the T. My grandpa did something similar in his shed many years back but has I beam steel ceiling and just cut the insulation just small enough to fit into opening then centered it and covered the whole thing with corrugated steel.
I could use 16 guage angle iron pieces screwed to each side of the ceiling 2x4 to support the insulation allowing me to easily pop the insulation up to wire anything. Then a year or two drywall the whole ceiling and blow insulation on top of it all.
My next idea is use strips of 1/4" plywood or similar screwed to bottom of ceiling 2x4s to make the T install easier and quicker.
Cutting and installing the insulation to fit between the 2x4's would not be as good as cap nailing the sheets to bottom of ceiling air sealing wise but would maintain my ceiling height and not worry me how it would work with the taller garage door when time comes to install it.
I could install plastic on ceiling before drywall too.

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[Sparkynutz]

Or do I fasten 1x3's or furring strips opposite direction of trusses every 12 or 16" so i can screw drywall to that and has more support when its time to install that?

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[AZ Pete]

Instead of lathe, just use nylon twine strung along the bottom of the rafters, when it is time to dry wall, it won't be in the way.


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[Sparkynutz]

Excellent idea and free! I already have a roll of twine.
Think the drywall will sag with 24oc and all the insulation weight on top?

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[1949 caddyman]

I have R11 fiberglass insolation on top of 1/2” drywall at 24” oc with no sag.

 

[mineallmine]

Excellent idea and free! I already have a roll of twine.
Think the drywall will sag with 24oc and all the insulation weight on top?

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I have R20 insulation on top of my 5/8 drywall (vapor barrier as well). Been 2 years and no sag. I also have 24oc. I also used no strapping

You can see in these pictures where I installed my drywall directly to the trusses. Also shown is a year later...no sag at all. The strips you see is just decorative 1x3 prepainted mdf. Mainly for looks but also covers seams if mud ever decides to crack from settling

Nice job on the raise by the way

 

[smschriefer]

Great job on raising the garage! I'd go with the 1x3 furring strips. It will really come in handy when you drywall to have more wiggle room when abutting sheets of drywall.

In my garage, I want to keep the rafters exposed. My plan is to buy 1x4's and attach them on each rafter to form a T. Then I'll cut my foam to fit between the rafters. I'll get the benefit of some insulation and maintain an air space for ventilation.

 

[matt_i]

If you could score a deal on a suspended ceiling being torn out (not from an old smoky bowling alley) and could do it yourself with "due care" you could have a pretty fast temporary ceiling. The T-shapes just wire into place, cross bars lock in, and the tiles are also drop-in. Fast and easy to put up, have a ceiling to trap warmth, remove panels for access when needed until you are done, then tear it out just as fast with near zero damage at the end...

 

[Sparkynutz]

Well. It's been a while and not much has changed. Had some nasty rainy weather last month. I had a few layers of pink insulation covering my yard drain in front of house to prevent it from freezing my sump pump pipe that feeds into it. Then It rained so hard the insulation floated off even with a railroad tie on top of it holding it down from wind. I can't believe how boyant pink foam is. I thought all the insulation was off but forgot I had cut one square the exact size of the grate. I didn't know it was still there and assumed it had frozen shut with leaves but had no way to find out because I had over 2ft of standing water where the grate was and couldn't find it. Eventually after 8+ hours trying to pump it out to street with extension cords and a 3k gpm pump I was losing ground so I started poking away with a driveway marker more until I thought I had found it then took a coat hanger and used that to pull the grate off. After I got it off I saw a bunch of holes in the insulation but not enough to drain the lake and release the foam from immense water pressure. The water was so high my entire yard was flooded. Before removing the drain cover the water was actually above the line where the old garage slab meets my new wall. There was water coming into the garage in 2 places. The entire front underneath where the garage door seal meets the new wall from the driving rain. I hope new seals fixes that because there was probably a gallon worth of water that came in there. The only other spot water was coming in was through a saw cut in the slab at the back of garage and it was just barely enough to see that it was slightly wet.
I guess that was a pretty good test of how well my wall adhered to the old slab. Once I seal coat the outside where wall and slab meet then backfill the existing trench that currently brings and collects more water next to the slab I shouldn't have any water issues.
After about 3 hours from pulling the drain grate my yard was mostly drained. The water level around garage had receded about 3 inches.
This Saturday I'm headed 2 states over to pick up a kubota with front end loader. That should be handy in grading my yard correctly to get a proper consistent slope from garage and house down to the yard drain.
I just couldn't see shoveling any more dirt or gravel than I need to by hand and the skid loader I've been using is just too darn heavy leaving ruts and making things worse especially close to the lot lines.
I looked at renting or paying someone to fix my yard but as everything else has gone knew if I want it done correctly I'm better off just buying the equipment and doing it myself. My wife doesn't like the idea of how much I'm spending on a tractor but if I end up selling it after I'm done I'll most likely still come out ahead of renting or paying to have it done too. I'd rather keep it tho because I can think of sooo many times I had wished I had one before and didn't. I have a feeling buying a tractor will really cut into the garage and driveway finishing. It all depends on how much overtime I'm able to get this summer and how much our tax refund ends up being. Bare minimum I need to get new garage slab poured so I have a place to put the new tractor. Unlucky thing will have to sit outside until then.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Wow. Sounds like a ton of water man, damn.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Every man deserves the right to own a tractor. I think that is written somewhere when you get married.

 

[Jjbates]

Wow . Can't believe I've missed this thread. Great job! I tore my old garage down and ended up raising the grade 22" above the old slab. I formed up concrete "walls the same as you did on the old slab backfilled and poured a new slab. The only difference between your build and mine is I capped my walls with the new slab and I didn't backfill the outside except at the front entrance. Keep up the good work!

 

[Sparkynutz]

Wow . Can't believe I've missed this thread. Great job! I tore my old garage down and ended up raising the grade 22" above the old slab. I formed up concrete "walls the same as you did on the old slab backfilled and poured a new slab. The only difference between your build and mine is I capped my walls with the new slab and I didn't backfill the outside except at the front entrance. Keep up the good work!

Awesome to hear of someone else who has done this. How long ago and how is yours holding up?

 

[Jjbates]

Awesome to hear of someone else who has done this. How long ago and how is yours holding up?

It's been two years and I haven't had the first crack. I didn't even cut expansion joints. Right or wrong, I chose not to because it was only 24'x24'.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I was and still am tempted to cut the walls where the cuts are in the slab but scared that may just add one more spot to leak if water level is high and seeps. I also question what will happen to wall if or when lower slab shifts. That's the main reason I'm making new top slab entirely seperate and floating. The wooden garage should be able to flex enough to withstand any cracking or movement that may happen to support walls. My floor resting on a cushion of gravel and foam should stay uncracked and flat.

 

[Jjbates]

I was and still am tempted to cut the walls where the cuts are in the slab but scared that may just add one more spot to leak if water level is high and seeps. I also question what will happen to wall if or when lower slab shifts. That's the main reason I'm making new top slab entirely seperate and floating. The wooden garage should be able to flex enough to withstand any cracking or movement that may happen to support walls. My floor resting on a cushion of gravel and foam should stay uncracked and flat.

I think your concrete work thus far is good. The only reason I poured my slab on top of the walls was because it was easier for me and we don't have to worry about concrete shifting from frost as much here in North Alabama. What's your reason for wanting to cut the walls?

 

[wssix99]

I was and still am tempted to cut the walls where the cuts are in the slab but scared that may just add one more spot to leak if water level is high and seeps.

There's no need to cut the walls. They shouldn't crack like the floor because they have much more reinforcement, which will protect against noticeable cracking. (If any cracking does form and you have enough reinforcement, the cracks should be microscopic - the the point that your exterior coating won't be compromised.)

 

[Sparkynutz]

Correct on my reason. All the rebar and extra thickness should keep it together. 95% of the walls will be hidden by the slab or outside dirt so after this summer I won't even know if it did or didn't crack.

 

[Jjbates]

There's no need to cut the walls. They shouldn't crack like the floor because they have much more reinforcement, which will protect against noticeable cracking. (If any cracking does form and you have enough reinforcement, the cracks should be microscopic - the the point that your exterior coating won't be compromised.)

I agree 100%.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I didn't buy the tractor. It was in worse shape than anticipated and definitely not maintained. I never did insulate ceiling or work out there instead I started and finished a few minor projects in the house. I have plenty of time to decide that. We've had 2 more days of heavy rains. My sump pump was running every 35-40 minutes vs the neighbors running every 2-3 minutes. There was a river of water flowing from their yard into mine. The dirt washed away from all the flowing water in 2 spots leading from their yard ight to the still dug out garage foundation. The water level was about an inch above where the stub wall meets the old slab the entire way around the garage. The water flowed in my garage moat all the way around the garage and then created another river where it washed the dirt away going downhill slightly to my backyard swmiming pool. From there it was flowing pretty hard across the backyard and side yard to the drain in front that goes to storm sewer. About 1/3 of the 6 inch pipe leading to storm sewer was full of water for a few hours after it was done raining. The old garage floor was still dry tho. I'm glad I didn't wait till spring to raise it or there would be a frozen mess in there. I can't wait for spring to get the grading finished and keep our water in our yard and neighbors water in their own yard. This winter has been so depressing. Hopefully next winter both garages are use able and I can get back to small engine and wood working projects to get me bye till spring.

 

[lakeroadster]

Keep the faith.. sounds like trying times.

We had water issues when we lived in Ohio.. ***** worrying about it every time the clouds roll in.

..Think the drywall will sag with 24oc and all the insulation weight on top?

Hanging drywall 24" OC on the ceiling

 

[RickP]

It must feel good to see that you solved the water issue, and spring isn't too far away now for finishing the grading. And even though it was unintentional, it sounds like your pond leakage test went pretty well.

I definitely approve of buying a tractor (obviously!), but you might be better off trying something else instead, especially if your wife isn't on board with it. The maintenance cost and tarps that are needed to keep rain water out of the fluids both end up being worse than expected. Ask me how I know...

Our Home Depot rents a mini skid steer (walk behind) that might be the perfect size for your backfilling. A weekend rental or two would be pretty inexpensive compared to a tractor purchase.

 

[xtremek]

It's always cool when you see how well your plan works out. Good job, sir.

 

[RSr]

Any progress towards the slab and driveway raise?

 

[slimpickins]

Wow. I missed this thread entirely. I had to do the same thing about 25 years ago at a house I previously owned. I lifted it from the outside and replaced the entire floor which was cracking like the San Andreas fault system. Turns out the builder had put a layer of plastic BELOW the gravel base!!!! And no rebar or mesh in the concrete.

Looks like you've done a great job!
Cheers!