Thermal overload protection for Bend-Park XPR10A

[Blk88GT]

Thermal overload protection for Bend-Pak XPR10A

I've searched a number of threads on here trying to figure out what guys are using for this lift, to no avail. The motor states right on it that it requires external thermal overload protection.

What are you guys using?

Thanks!

Ian

 

[Teken]

Ian,

That would be anything from a fuse, to breaker, to thermal limit switch. I am sure Bendpack has what is required in the install manual.

No?

Teken . . .

 

[Blk88GT]

The install manual is not useful for this sort of thing.

I don't feel a breaker is going to offer much thermal protection. I thought it was as simple as a breaker, my electrician father tells me otherwise. My air compressor has a thermal overload reset button right on the motor itself, my hoist has no such thing.

I can't be the first to read the safety warnings on the motor, can I?

 

[pattenp]

Read the warning label closely. The label on my motor says there is no motor thermal protection. Separate overcurrent protection must be provided. Thermal and Overcurrent protection are not the same. The label on my motor does not say that separate thermal protection must be provided. So a breaker is all you need to provide overcurrent protection.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

For something that has as short a cycle as a lift motor has, I cannot imagine a real need for a thermal limiter or thermal protection. But since they call for it...............

It would be something like the thermal protection used in motor starters.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

If you want O/L protection a IEC style manual starter is a EZ way to do it & with DIN rail it's easy to mount.

 

[Blk88GT]

Read the warning label closely. The label on my motor says there is no motor thermal protection. Separate overcurrent protection must be provided. Thermal and Overcurrent protection are not the same. The label on my motor does not say that separate thermal protection must be provided. So a breaker is all you need to provide overcurrent protection.

I appreciate your input. Bend-Pak must have changed something down the line, because my label looks like this:

 

[Blk88GT]

Norcal, I priced out one of those Siemens units. The unit itself was $185 and the enclosure was $45.

 

[awdblazer]

blk88gt where did you price things out? I know ba robinson deals with siemens
I am not sure if you got that as a mts price but you could also try the hydro price

 

[sberry]

Just put it on a 20A breaker, it can go on circuits to 30. Put a 12 or better wire. I sistered up a welder recept using same wire for small mig.

 

[Blk88GT]

That was from BA with my discount. My dad says he's got a solution, I'll post some pictures once he brings it over.

 

[Blk88GT]

I gave in and got the Siemens unit. Should have it all done in the next while. Thanks for the info guys! I seem to be the only one following the recommended install. LOL

 

[sberry]

You don't need it, that's why it wasn't included.

 

[Blk88GT]

If you want to adhere to code, you do.

 

[600SL]

You don't need it, that's why it wasn't included.

I have found Bend-Packs wiring less than adequate. The miniature micro switch in my 4 post that switches motor current directly exploded on me within the first month of use and left my lift stuck going up in an application where the roof of the car would have done through the ceiling. Fortunately I was temporarily plugged into the wall and could just unplug it. I have since put a 20 amp CB mounted to the side of the motor controller that I can turn off if the same thing happens again. But really this micro switch in the push button should be replaced with a momentary 2HP drum switch.

John

 

[tfi racing]

If you want to adhere to code, you do.

Got the rule # handy,I would like to have a look at it.

 

[awdblazer]

it would be in section 28 in the motors, stating all motors must have a overload

 

[rancherbill]

The label is referring to CE code. It is not applicable in the US. If the motor has no UL or NEC warnings you are good to go.

 

[sberry]

This is a ready made piece of equipment. Do we think that every end user is going to have to become an electrical engineer to hook 3 wires to it? Its got a 45 second run time with an operator standing there holding a button.
I am not familiar with Bendpak but those limit switches are kind of crappy, are they part of the operating circuit or a safety?

It also says factory wired. Implies to hook power to the unit and fly it.

 

[sberry]

The motor states right on it that it requires external thermal overload protection.

This is a problem with codes as a diy, even the stickers. It doesn't say it requires it, it says it doesn't have it. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of lifts, dealer installed, lots of them done in commercial by lic sparkies world wide, none of them got it.
I don't know anything about it but can tell from there that someone before me would have done it.

 

[600SL]

believe it or not this is the momentary switch used in the Bend pack 4 post lift for switching motor current.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#micro-switches/=qouvoa

 

[nehog]

... I cannot imagine a real need for a thermal limiter or thermal protection. But since they call for it...............
...

They do not call for it. The motor simply does not have a thermal protection device--as it is not really needed if used properly. I've never seen a thermal protection device on a lift motor...

 

[sberry]

The same motor could be used with other equipment with some added features. The dealer provided a plug with mine, it was 4 wire, they use same for every install, but,,, there should be a local means of disconnect,,, something gets stuck the operator can pull or unplug. Should put a flashing light for the deaf and a siren for the blind on.
Not having a bunch of stuff is good down the long run, first it just added 200 in direct cost, it will eventually be a cheap lesson though. A little like the pressure washer I have, I don't recall if the fan motor had thermal,, I spose it did but in the parts manual carefully listed the motor leads as being 14 as 16 would be the norm in a home furnace that run on 120, this has 14 and is 240, reason being that it had 30A plug. 14 for a 1 amp load.

Reason being,,, way easier to upsize a couple pieces of cord in a 6K machine and don't need to add a layer of overcurrent protection except for the breaker of the circuit. In that case a cord/plug is provided, the right one. 2 conductor 3 wire grounded.

The motor is a pinch heavier than the Mohawk. Mine is 13.8 and allows a piped 14 with 35A. The hoist similar in some respect. 12 wire, cable cord or piped don't mean squat. Whats important is the wire be large enough to allow extra breaker for starts. In reality would run fine from a 16 considering the duty, would have to use a 20A ,,, cant account for the trip factor/overhead.

 

[sberry]

This just ramble but pertains to a bit of design theory related to similar equipment. I built a portable cooler, the run was about 10a or so. Ideally we would be able to move it to places we had circuits designed for it or existing etc and in the end,,, I put a 2 space panel on as a disconnect from a 12 cord and a welder plug.

The designer is a genius and the helper figured he was but it got to,,, do it this way. I put a 20A in the disconnect, we didn't have to run up size control wire or make sure we were on a 30a circuit, now we can plug in to up to a 50A welder circuit and any controls past the breaker are protected at 20, allowed them to use extension cord etc for controls and protect the circuit wiring within the unit.
It just save a lot of problems for 20 in parts.

 

[Blk88GT]

it would be in section 28 in the motors, stating all motors must have a overload

Thanks for pointing out the section, I didn't realize the requirement was still being debated.

 

[awdblazer]

good on you ian for putting it in
will save you money in the future if anything does ever go wrong with your lift

 

[LS6 Tommy]

EVERY circuit requires overcurrent protection...

Tommy

 

[sberry]

They try to make it easy, they provide a spot says ,,,, hook wires here.

 

[Norcal]

EVERY circuit requires overcurrent protection...

Tommy

Overcurrent protection & overload protection are not the same.

 

[pstnbly]

Wiring diagram for my lift had the lift height safety micro switch on the motor side of the magnetic contactor. That seemed like a dumb idea to me, provided switch wires 14ga, small micro switch contacts, 30a start spike. I moved the micro switch to the magnet side of the contactor 1a load.

Could the contactor hang, maybe but I'll take the chance, there are chances the other way too, the micro switch contacts can weld closed, and then the contactor can hang also. I considered all this before I switched the wiring, seemed the better route to me.

 

[sberry]

We had some burner equipment had puny thermostat switching connected to motor loads, same way.

 

[skiingman]

What part of external overheat protection shall be provided makes people think this is optional? That's clear as day. The codes require you to follow manufacturer instructions and the instructions say you shall (must) provide overheat protection. I suspect that's tacked on solely for Canada.

 

[robertwarreniii]

430.31 says that overload protection is for protection from overloading and failure to start. 430.33 says that all motors shall be considered continuous duty. 430.32 says that all continuous ditty motors shall be protected against overloads.

 

[Bert_]

A breaker can be used to feed the circuit but it will not provide much protection for the motor. If the breaker is sized big enough to prevent tripping on startup then it is too large to protect the motor from overloads.

A time delay fuse sized 1.15-1.25% of FLA, or the next smaller size, is a good, cheap way to provide overload protection.
I would assume a lift motor would have a service factor of 1 so fuses should probably be sized at 1.15% of FLA.


*On second thought you may even want to size the fuse at the FLA since the motor will only run for a short duration.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Interesting discussion from 4 yrs ago...

 

[Bert_]

Interesting discussion from 4 yrs ago...

Dam, missed that...

 

[Blk88GT]

For what it's worth, I haven't had a single issue with the thermal overload as installed/configured. I use the hoist on a fairly regular basis for a hobbyist.

I did have one buddy who wanted the PNs for what I used as his inspector failed him on it. Another friend has 4 lifts in his shop and doesn't have a single thermal overload.