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Thhn / thwn

460Rustang

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Why do THHN / THWN haveta be run through conduit, even through hidded, enclosed, apparently safe, studded interior walls?

Whats is it about their construction make up that is lacking vs that of basic Romex?
 
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460Rustang

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Individual wires need like these conduit, correct?

What inside stud wall conduit would you suggest, not the same rigid PVC as the underground run ?
 

JoeFin

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Because EMF cancels out

When the conductors are uniformly held in close proximity to each other the resulting EMF from current passing through them cancels itself out.

WHY is this of concern you ask

Because IF this EMF is not canceled out and has the chance to induce onto grounded metal the wires begin to act like a "Heat Strip"

Not good in a wood framed wall
 

Stuart in MN

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You can continue the PVC inside the wall, or transition to EMT (metal) conduit. Another option is to put in a junction box where the conduit enters the building, and then transition from the THHN/THWN to Romex cable inside the wall.
 

theoldwizard1

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"Ours is not to question why ..."

Because the NEC says so !

Like tamperproof outlets

Arc fault breakers/outlets.


[SARCASM]How could we have lived with electricity so long without killing off half of the world without these mandatory safety features ![/SARCASM]

Interesting the electrical equipment manufacturers write the NEC !
 
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460Rustang

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You can continue the PVC inside the wall, or transition to EMT (metal) conduit. Another option is to put in a junction box where the conduit enters the building, and then transition from the THHN/THWN to Romex cable inside the wall.

ROUGHLY, how does 6 3 Romex compare in cost to # 6 THWN with conduit,.....worth the junction and swap?
 

Charles (in GA)

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Its a matter of cost vs work involved.

How difficult is the run inside the garage? Would it be easy with NM jacketed cable ?(Romex™ is a trademark of the Southwire Corporation) or is conduit a fairly easy run inside the garage?

You are going to have to buy a decent sized pvc junction box, and some quality splice connectors if you swap over, plus cable staples to make the run. Or you just buy more conduit and keep going, plus clamps for the conduit.

Charles
 
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wyliesdiesels

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Because EMF cancels out

When the conductors are uniformly held in close proximity to each other the resulting EMF from current passing through them cancels itself out.

WHY is this of concern you ask

Because IF this EMF is not canceled out and has the chance to induce onto grounded metal the wires begin to act like a "Heat Strip"

Not good in a wood framed wall

Ever heard of a Gauss meter? Its like a Geiger counter but instead of measuring radiation it measures EMF fields. My old neighbor use to have one and held it near an outlet and live NM-b one time and it picked up a pretty good field! PGE(since youre in Cali, u know who they are) often mails informational fliers in their bills which talk about EMF fields and how there is evidence that EMF fields from 60hz electricity emitting from walls, COULD cause health problems!

Not sure about the bolded part of your comment. Have a reference?
 
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Kevin C

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http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=powerquality/unformatted/EMIKarl&type=u&title=Power%20Quality%20Article

An example of separation: A former wiring method which one still sees frequently in cities with older residences, such as San Francisco and Boston, illustrates what happens when conductors are separated. Up until the 1940s it was legal to run the hot and neutral conductors along completely separate paths. This is called knob and tube wiring and when you find it you will always find high magnetic fields. The only solution is replacement with contemporary wiring.
 

wyliesdiesels

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JoeFin

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Ever heard of a Gauss meter? Its like a Geiger counter but instead of measuring radiation it measures EMF fields.

Used them on occasion, don't put a lot of stock in them. There are better ways to calculate the effects. And yes I said calculate as in calculator..

PGE(since youre in Cali, u know who they are)

Yes they know who I am. I've Started Up a bunch of Power Plants for them. Implemented the first Digitized Metering (or Instrumentation as we call it) 230 Kv Substations for them and other projects they handed the firm I used to work for.

often mails informational fliers in their bills which talk about EMF fields and how there is evidence that EMF fields from 60hz electricity emitting from walls, COULD cause health problems!

Its 6 am, not sure I want to attempt to walk you through the math right now, but it would be the 'Z' operator. The cancelation is proportional to the phase angle of the opposing phase, or in a single phase 120v circuit the resultant neutral phase angle.

Not sure about the bolded part of your comment. Have a reference?

Since you have access to the NEC check the references to "Vessel Heating"

I noticed the article Thomas C. linked to was written in 1995. I too was being flown around the country occasionally for this effect starting around 1990.

I wonder about switch loop circuits where 2 hots are run together and no neutral...I wonder if this method causes higher magnetic fields....

Your a "Quick Study" (meaning you learn fast)

Don't blame your High school Electronics Teacher for not filling in the blanks. When I approached the Owner/Chief Electrical Engineer of the firm I was working for about these "New Fangled Electrical Harmonics" in 1991, he referenced an article written by McPartland's son on behalf of the electronics manufacturers claiming Electrical Harmonics didn't exist.

By 1994 U.L. informed electronics manufacturers they would lose their U.L. rating if they did not address the harmonics loading effect of their equipment.
 
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sparky36000

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I wonder about switch loop circuits where 2 hots are run together and no neutral...I wonder if this method causes higher magnetic fields....

Because the hot and switch leg are run in the same raceway or cable, the current flow is running in opposite directions and the magnetic fields will cancel the same as a hot and neutral conductor running together.

EMF can be concentrated and controlled such as with an iron transformer core, but I believe there is no known insulator for EMF.
 
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2ManyProjects

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I wonder about switch loop circuits where 2 hots are run together and no neutral...I wonder if this method causes higher magnetic fields....
Because the hot and switch leg are run in the same raceway or cable, the current flow is running in opposite directions and the magnetic fields will cancel the same as a hot and neutral conductor running together.

Twisting the two conductors together (a la the "twisted pair" cables used in data networks) will also help on this front.

EMF can be concentrated and controlled such as with an iron transformer core, but I believe there is no known insulator for EMF.

Ahem...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

;)

 
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