Thinest wire allowed for 110v

[yeldogt]

May not be asking correctly (exactly) ... as I believe what makes a wire allowed for a given volt is the insulation.

One of the two antique floor lamps I'm rewiring still had its European plug and two prong sockets when purchased. The issue is rewiring the three bulb array w/ its small passageways. I picked up a set of two prong bayonet LED bulbs (Amazon). Now trying to rewire -- there is not enough room for typically zip cord connection in the small middle space and I can't get two thickness through the passageways out to the side bulbs.

I need thinner wire. Looking at lighting suppliers .... some of the wire is 20g .... but, I see non UL 22g. I'm assuming 18g thermostat wire is not approved for 110 even with the thicker gauge? That would work through the smaller tube out to the bulb. I cold thread them around w/o using wire ties. The sockets use through screw terminals.

What is the solid wire that a ballast uses .... I could never find that sold?

 

[noknurl]

Go low voltage?

 

[acer66]

Might want to post this in the electrical section instead.

Good luck.

 

[Innovate1]

Smaller gauge wire than NEC requires for house wiring is frequently used in equipment for the same current level. Part of the issue is the temp rating of the insulation and building wiring is conservatively rated as it may be run through insulation where heat buildup would be more.

But voltage rating has everything to do with insulation not size of the conductor as you allude to. Insulation also varies greatly in thickness for the same voltage rating although I am not sure what type to suggest. For a lamp with incandescent bulbs it may see fairly high temps so that should be a factor in your choice.

Maybe punch up wire on digikey.com. They have a nice interface where you can limit the thousands of initial hits but wire gauge and many other parameters. Put in some limitations and see what it gives. Might be informative even if you don't buy it there.

 

[rlitman]

"Zip cord" is FT1 or FT2, with FT1 having a thinner jacket. The voltage and temperature rating is actually separate, and you need to shop around.

Not a specific recommendation*, but I see UL listed 24AWG FT1 on Amazon, so yeah, it does exist if you want something like that:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0924CMCK3/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Yes, I know it says low voltage in the title, but read the jacket; it also says 300V.

Ballast wire is 18AWG solid AWM. That's probably what you want, and I'll bet that two strands of 18 solid AWM will be easier to snake than 24 stranded zip cord.

The sad truth is that the unlabeled wires inside your thermostat wire will be the same stuff, but without the printed label, I wouldn't use it.

This 24AWG "hookup wire" has 300V printed on it, but do you even need something this small?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V1D82HM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[fitter30]

Found this lamp wire 22 qauge mot ul approved

22/2 Thin, Special Purpose Lamp Spool Cord 46609 | B&P Lamp Supply

B&P Lamp Supply is the #1 source for wholesale lamp parts and lighting hardware. We offer reproduction antique lamp parts and antique lighting parts that includes miniature oil lamps, hall lanterns, and victorian style lamps and lighting, as well as parts for fixing or repairing antique lamps...

www.bplampsupply.com

 

[Craig Bernhardt]

May not be asking correctly (exactly) ... as I believe what makes a wire allowed for a given volt is the insulation.

One of the two antique floor lamps I'm rewiring still had its European plug and two prong sockets when purchased. The issue is rewiring the three bulb array w/ its small passageways. I picked up a set of two prong bayonet LED bulbs (Amazon). Now trying to rewire -- there is not enough room for typically zip cord connection in the small middle space and I can't get two thickness through the passageways out to the side bulbs.

I need thinner wire. Looking at lighting suppliers .... some of the wire is 20g .... but, I see non UL 22g. I'm assuming 18g thermostat wire is not approved for 110 even with the thicker gauge? That would work through the smaller tube out to the bulb. I cold thread them around w/o using wire ties. The sockets use through screw terminals.

What is the solid wire that a ballast uses .... I could never find that sold?

I'm pretty sure 14 awg is the thinnest you can go

 

[Wrench97]

I'm pretty sure 14 awg is the thinnest you can go

Your lamp cords are 14 ga?

 

[Craig Bernhardt]

Your lamp cords are 14 ga?

I don't have any lamps, so not sure about that

 

[rlitman]

I'm pretty sure 14 awg is the thinnest you can go

We're not talking about in-wall wire, so no.

 

[yeldogt]

Found this lamp wire 22 qauge mot ul approved

22/2 Thin, Special Purpose Lamp Spool Cord 46609 | B&P Lamp Supply

B&P Lamp Supply is the #1 source for wholesale lamp parts and lighting hardware. We offer reproduction antique lamp parts and antique lighting parts that includes miniature oil lamps, hall lanterns, and victorian style lamps and lighting, as well as parts for fixing or repairing antique lamps...

www.bplampsupply.com

That is what I found .... the 22

Seems the typical lamp cord is 28 or 20.

 

[fitter30]

22 q 6

That is what I found .... the 22

Seems the typical lamp cord is 28 or 20.

22 gauge 6.8 amp
28 gauge 1.4 amp

 

[yeldogt]

It's not a amp problem .... the original watt bulb may have been 60w at 220 volts ... it's a Euro setup.

The replacement are LED at under 9w each

 

[Bert_]

If it doesn't need to be cord then #18 tffn would be a good option.

 

[FredWanaker]

the first thing you MUST know is how much wattage the each lamp will use max. Then you can choose wire size. Going to a low voltage system will be safer if you want to use thinner wire. Would you let a loved family member hang from a 1500' cliff using the thinnest rope you can buy? A lamp with 120V is as deadly if the wire shorts to the lamp.

 

[The Cobbler]

ballast wire is about 20 gauge I would guess, with a 105°C temp and 600vac rating . probably easy to find on an old ballast . I could send you some of you can be patient

 

[The Cobbler]

here is ballast wire https://www.ebay.com/itm/192830311657?hash=item2ce5950ce9:g:5kIAAOSwZlZaMSt1

 

[The Cobbler]

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[The Cobbler]

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[MAD]

Grand Brass is a great resource for lamp parts. https://grandbrass.com/

They have two conductor lamp cord down to 22 AWG. They also have single conductor 18 gauge TFFN and PTFE wire (as Bert mentioned) which has a very thin slick Teflon jacket.

Also vintage looking cloth covered lamp cord and cordsets with old style plugs if you want to keep the look of your antique lamp.

 

[quickfarms]

A lot of the molded plugs on coards contain a Christmas tree light fuse, 2 to 3 amp,

 

[yeldogt]

Pardon Our Interruption...

That looks like the ticket

 

[yeldogt]

Might want to post this in the electrical section instead.

Good luck.

See that I put in wrong area ... clicked w/o looking !

 

[theoldwizard1]

"Zip cord" is FT1 or FT2, with FT1 having a thinner jacket.

Lamp cord is SPT-1 or SPT-2. SPR-2 has 50% thicker insulation. It is rated for 300V. Current depends on length, but I would not exceed 5A. Most commonly it is 18 AWG. You might find SPT-1 online in 20 or 22 gauge.

 

[The Cobbler]

Might want to post this in the electrical section instead.

Good luck.

See that I put in wrong area ... clicked w/o looking !

moved to electrical

 

[Norcal]

I would not use smaller then 18 gauge zip cord, the circuit breakers used in the 50 hertz world are 10 or 16A, or 32A ring circuit in the UK with fused plugs that accept up to a 13A fuse.

 

[alfredeneuman]

ballast wire is about 20 gauge I would guess,

Fluorescent ballast leads are 18 gauge

 

[Solarphil]

Smaller gauge wire than NEC requires for house wiring is frequently used in equipment for the same current level. Part of the issue is the temp rating of the insulation and building wiring is conservatively rated as it may be run through insulation where heat buildup would be more.

Fluorescent ballast leads are 18 gauge

Just because ballasts come with #18 AWG leads doesn’t mean someone in the field can wire a different lamp with the same gauge wires.
Manufacturers can use smaller wire than what is allowed by prescriptive code because the product or application is evaluated by the NRTL. As a manufacturer, if I want to use #6 on a 100 amp circuit within a listed device, and I can get that conductor and its terminations to pass the temperature rise test, then I can. As an electrician in the field, I need to follow the tables in the code based on insulation rating, # of conductors, temperature etc.

Wire gauge is determined by overcurrent protection, current draw (watts divided by voltage) and distance. Insulation thickness is determined by voltage rating and construction (ie, what material). Some higher rated jackets are thinner, some are not. Ask for and read the specs.

OP, the key question is, what size overcurrent device is reasonably going to be protecting the circuit? Most standard US Resi circuits are protected by a 15A breaker, occasionally a 20A. There’s a reason most zip cord is 16 or 18 - as Innovate1 says, zip cord is expected to be in free air so it can radiate out some amount of heat that building wire can’t. However, will a 18, 20, 22 AWG wire withstand a fault long enough to clear the breaker? To quote a famous movie, do you feel lucky? If you *must* use a small gauge wire to fit the lamp’s passages, strongly consider adding an inline fuse similar to modern Christmas lights - and your retro LED lights draw a low enough current to make this feasible.

Good luck with the project, sounds fun

 

[alfredeneuman]

Phil, read his entire quote

ballast wire is about 20 gauge I would guess, with a 105°C temp and 600vac rating . probably easy to find on an old ballast . I could send you some of you can be patient

The wiring on new fluorescent fixtures is always #18

 

[Innovate1]

the first thing you MUST know is how much wattage the each lamp will use max. Then you can choose wire size. Going to a low voltage system will be safer if you want to use thinner wire. Would you let a loved family member hang from a 1500' cliff using the thinnest rope you can buy? A lamp with 120V is as deadly if the wire shorts to the lamp.

You are being a overly dramatic - not a realistic comparison. If the rope breaks it is certain death. If the wire shorts it may be a shock which may be lethal. Very serious and to be avoided but often not lethal. And unless they are using VERY large bulbs any reasonable wire size will carry the current just fine so the wattage is just one of several things to consider.

 

[walta]

Before you do this understand the risks you are taking.

Your lamp is likely to be plugged into a outlet protected by a 20 amp breaker. If the two wires in your lamp somehow happen to contact each other, that 20 amp will flow thru your skinny wire. When 20 amps flows thru 28 gage wire the wire will be red hot long before the breaker pops if it pop. If the red hot skinny wire happened to be in contact with a rug or carpet a fire seem likely. If there is a long enough length of skinny wire it may have enough resistance to keep the current flow below the trip point of the breaker. Yes we see thinner wires inside light fixtures designed by engineers that passed a destructive testing and are UL approved.

I am not saying don’t do it just be sure the reward is worth the risk in your mind.

Walta

 

[rburke65]

How many lamps and what are their wattage?

 

[mike93lx]

I'd use cat5

 

[rlitman]

Before you do this understand the risks you are taking.

Your lamp is likely to be plugged into a outlet protected by a 20 amp breaker. If the two wires in your lamp somehow happen to contact each other, that 20 amp will flow thru your skinny wire. When 20 amps flows thru 28 gage wire the wire will be red hot long before the breaker pops if it pop. If the red hot skinny wire happened to be in contact with a rug or carpet a fire seem likely. If there is a long enough length of skinny wire it may have enough resistance to keep the current flow below the trip point of the breaker. Yes we see thinner wires inside light fixtures designed by engineers that passed a destructive testing and are UL approved.

I am not saying don’t do it just be sure the reward is worth the risk in your mind.

Walta

Let's explore your argument. If the two wires in the lamp are shorted, you will NOT get 20A flowing (circuit breakers do not work this way). You will get the short circuit current, which is limited by the resistance of the wire. 100' of 28AWG wire has a resistance of 6.6 ohms, and that will flow roughly 18A. So, 100' of such thin wire is long enough to do what you claim. Reduce that to 10' (a length reasonable for a floor lamp), and the current is only limited to 180A, which according to Eaton, should trip a 20A BR type breaker within 1.5 seconds. That's still a length of time I'm not comfortable with, as it gives the wire time to heat up, which will increase the resistance and reduce the current as it starts to incandesce. OTOH, Square D QO breakers would clear that within one cycle, which is a time-frame I am comfortable with.

However, if you step that up to 24 AWG (the smallest size I mentioned above), then the short circuit current of a 10' loop is 458A, which is plenty to trip any 20A breaker on the market on it's magnetic, without having to wait for the far slower thermal protection. Note that 24 AWG is commonly used in Cat 5e wire (Cat 6 is usually 23 AWG).

Which means that if the OP sticks with 18 or 20 gauge wire, this is all moot.

One other point. Assuming this is a metal lamp, I would strongly recommend connecting it with a grounded cord that grounds the metal.

 

[FredWanaker]

funny thread. We used to cook 6 - 8 hotdogs in a cooker that simply passed current thru them. Breaker never popped but boy could those hot dogs burn and stink if they were left in too long.