Things Snap-On Tool owners say.

[dchawk81]

Photography is one of my hobbies, and there's a saying that goes something along the lines of "It's not the camera, it's the person holding it." A great photographer is going to get great shots with just about anything - a **** photographer with the best camera and lens in the world is going to end up with ****.

Same thing with driving on the track - "The biggest upgrade you can get is upgrading the driver." I used to have a pretty fast/capable car and thought I was pretty good in it. Once I met up with a guy with a far heavier, less powerful and worse-handling car to follow him through the mountains on the way to a car show. He was so damn fast and tight he scared the ever-loving **** out of me, and when we finally pulled over for a gas stop he hopped out of the car like nothing and said "Nice drive, right?"

It's pretty much the same with tools. I bet a world glass painter would be able to embarrass you using HF spray gun. That's not meant as a swipe on you - it's just the truth. I'm judging a shop on their work, not their tools.

I don't see anyone "bagging on Snap On users here"

Unless you're a technical type who doesn't like soft images from poo glass.

 

[Jeepster04]

Sometimes he's a bit tough to listen to, but obsessed garage just went through the snap on experience. I think he paid $11k just for the tool box.... Its sad mechanics that are starting out think thats a good move...

 

[nbpt100]

This thread has hit a nerve or something with people.

Is it a sound investment if it looses a lot of value? I see Snap on and Mac tool boxes for sale on FB marketplace for big money compard to used Craftsman, Husky, US General and Kennedy and other boxes. They dont move very fast.

I was in a thread earlier about Zero Turn and riding mowers where someone commented that in certain neighborhoods if one guy gets a Zero Turn the others want to keep up with the Jones and buy one. There is some of that with many Snap On owners. Ego and Identity.

So why is a SN tool box a good investment over the many other choices. I have not yet heard a good explanation why.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I bet a world glass painter would be able to embarrass you using HF spray gun.

Whose to say I'm not an elite level painter myself huh? No one is embarrassing me with an HF gun my friend. Been doing it for a living and at a high level for 30 years.

I think you were missing the point of what I was trying to get across. Probably my fault for not being clearer. If I as a Professional walk into a supposed high level shop and see guys using HF tools on stuff, right there I'm making some judgements. I've never seen a guy who cared about his work, worked at a high level using junk for tools. In this business it just doesn't happen. Maybe so in other fields, not this one.

In this business generally a guy using junk is usually spending the rest of his money on drugs. Seen it many times. Worked with several like that. One guy would get high on meth before coming in, go like a banshee for 8 hours and do it all again the next day. He kept his tools in a couple of cardboard boxes. He was fast, but he did hack level work. Used car dealer quality which is pretty low.
Do you want the cardboard box guy working on your car or do you want the guy who cares about what he does enough to buy quality items?

In the end it's still a (relatively) free country and we are all (relatively) free to do what we want. Just sharing my opinion.

 

[Snaparxon]

I use mostly Snap on tools, I have said ****!? many times. My post was from personal experience. However I have found most of my lost tools. Once I scattered $400 worth of Snap on wrenches (3) of the back of my service truck on a dirt road. Found two immediately after I realized they were missing, the last one was in the customers tool box on his JohnDeere several years later when it came into our shop, my name on the wrench.

 

[Snaparxon]

Whose to say I'm not an elite level painter myself huh? No one is embarrassing me with an HF gun my friend. Been doing it for a living and at a high level for 30 years.

I think you were missing the point of what I was trying to get across. Probably my fault for not being clearer. If I as a Professional walk into a supposed high level shop and see guys using HF tools on stuff, right there I'm making some judgements. I've never seen a guy who cared about his work, worked at a high level using junk for tools. In this business it just doesn't happen. Maybe so in other fields, not this one.

In this business generally a guy using junk is usually spending the rest of his money on drugs. Seen it many times. Worked with several like that. One guy would get high on meth before coming in, go like a banshee for 8 hours and do it all again the next day. He kept his tools in a couple of cardboard boxes. He was fast, but he did hack level work. Used car dealer quality which is pretty low.
Do you want the cardboard box guy working on your car or do you want the guy who cares about what he does enough to buy quality items?

In the end it's still a (relatively) free country and we are all (relatively) free to do what we want. Just sharing my opinion.

Most of the time,
**** tools = **** work
sloppy mechanic = sloppy work

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I will concede that if I had to do it over again I would not have bought the Snap On and Mac Tools Macsimizer boxes that I did. But in reality at that time there was no HF, and the internet was essentially non existent and the only other choices were Craftsman boxes which I did not like at all.

Today I would buy a HF box and load it with SO tools and other quality tools. Actually I have done that. I have 2 which don't get moved around any 56" top and bottom, and a 44" bottom. Along with my Snap On box. Lost my Macsimizer in a fire where I worked at that time.
Still miss that box, top drawer was so big, I think I could have rented it out to a small Japanese man at night, like they do in Tokyo at those mini-hotels.

 

[M635_Guy]

Unless you're a technical type who doesn't like soft images from poo glass.

If you can't make it work, you're somewhere in the middle. I am too, which is why I have a good camera and great glass. But truly excellent photographers have done amazing things with a box camera.

 

[dchawk81]

Whose to say I'm not an elite level painter myself huh? No one is embarrassing me with an HF gun my friend. Been doing it for a living and at a high level for 30 years.

I think you were missing the point of what I was trying to get across. Probably my fault for not being clearer. If I as a Professional walk into a supposed high level shop and see guys using HF tools on stuff, right there I'm making some judgements. I've never seen a guy who cared about his work, worked at a high level using junk for tools. In this business it just doesn't happen. Maybe so in other fields, not this one.

In this business generally a guy using junk is usually spending the rest of his money on drugs. Seen it many times. Worked with several like that. One guy would get high on meth before coming in, go like a banshee for 8 hours and do it all again the next day. He kept his tools in a couple of cardboard boxes. He was fast, but he did hack level work. Used car dealer quality which is pretty low.
Do you want the cardboard box guy working on your car or do you want the guy who cares about what he does enough to buy quality items?

In the end it's still a (relatively) free country and we are all (relatively) free to do what we want. Just sharing my opinion.

There's a pretty big space between Snap-on and junk though and most of it is perfectly capable.

And honestly I store some of my stuff in cardboard boxes. Storage is pretty much the least important part of quality work. It's really not even relevant beyond organization for efficiency.

I work on my semi truck and that's my livelihood. I have a lot of tools but very little Snap-on. Really just a ratchet, some older 6 point combos, and the MG725 and MG1250.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

And honestly I store some of my stuff in cardboard boxes. Storage is pretty much the least important part of quality work. It's really not even relevant beyond organization for efficiency.

So I guess by using carboard boxes, my methhead coworker was just being extra smart and value conscious eh?

 

[dchawk81]

So I guess by using carboard boxes, my methhead coworker was just being extra smart and value conscious eh?

I guess there's no middle ground, eh?

People either buy high end storage or they use cardboard because they're on meth.

You're making a false correlation. Being on meth doesn't make one use cardboard boxes for storage nor does using cardboard for storage mean that person is on meth. Nor does it mean cardboard storage makes one unskilled or incompetent.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Photography is one of my hobbies, and there's a saying that goes something along the lines of "It's not the camera, it's the person holding it." A great photographer is going to get great shots with just about anything - a **** photographer with the best camera and lens in the world is going to end up with ****.

As a hobby yes I understand why you wouldn't outfit yourself with the best gear. As a Professional if one were to do that, that would tell me that he/she doesn't really care enough to use the best to get the best results. The best in that field use hi quality stuff just like no decent painter would ever consider using a HF gun to spray $1200/gallon basecoat.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I guess there's no middle ground, eh?

People either buy high end storage or they use cardboard because they're on meth.

You're making a false correlation. Being on meth doesn't make one use cardboard boxes for storage nor does using cardboard for storage mean that person is on meth. Nor does it mean cardboard storage makes one unskilled or incompetent.

Lord have mercy. I give up. FTR, that is your correlation not the point I was making.

 

[dchawk81]

Lord have mercy. I give up. FTR, that is your correlation not the point I was making.

I didn't tie meth with cardboard. You did that.

 

[dchawk81]

As a hobby yes I understand why you wouldn't outfit yourself with the best gear. As a Professional if one were to do that, that would tell me that he/she doesn't really care enough to use the best to get the best results. The best in that field use hi quality stuff just like no decent painter would ever consider using a HF gun to spray $1200/gallon basecoat.

Hobbyist photographers tend to have the best gear when they can afford it. Sometimes more than professionals.

Professionals have to consider profit, since it's a business. Hobbyists have a real job to pay for it.

You judge people on what they have, not what they can do, and I find that rather sad.

 

[AEAdam]

One guy spends $100k on Snap-on tools which essentially gets him the "basics". Sockets, wrenches, ratchets, impacts etc. Another guy has a $100k of tools that are HF, Sunex, GW, GP, craftsman etc. He has every kind of socket, wobbles, universals etc. He also has just about every special tool and puller imaginable etc. Who has more capability as to what jobs he can take on? Pretty sure I know.

Who takes more pride in their work and their job? I don't know and neither do you. But you can make all the assumptions and judgements you want.

Your belief is that the tools are equivalent and that the brand makes no difference to the mechanic.

There was a pro mechanic here once who did exactly what you said. He bought a large HF box and filled it with HF tools. Pretty sure he’s since replaced the box for a very high end box like a maximizer (?) and replaced a lot of the basics with truck tools (mac I think), someone will correct me. Point is, despite what people here want others to believe, the tools are NOT equivalent and it’s not fun to use cheap tools.

Working on cars is hard enough. You are saving SO much money doing the repairs yourself, why make it harder with ****** craftsman wrenches? I did it for years. Craftsman raised panel wrenches are objectively ****. The sockets **** too. If I knew then what Im telling you now, I would have bought snap on wrenches and sockets and ratchets sooner and saved my younger self a lot of frustration. And it’s not $100k. It’s not a mortgage’s worth of tools. I’m not sure I have $5000 in tools including my KRL.

Not trying to sell anyone on Snap On. Just, if you are fixing your cars, you can justify decent quality tools.

 

[dchawk81]

If you can't make it work, you're somewhere in the middle. I am too, which is why I have a good camera and great glass. But truly excellent photographers have done amazing things with a box camera.

The thing about photography is it's subjective. A box camera or **** lenses just don't do what I like to do.

 

[dchawk81]

If you can't make it work, you're somewhere in the middle. I am too, which is why I have a good camera and great glass. But truly excellent photographers have done amazing things with a box camera.

The thing about photography is it's subjective.

Your belief is that the tools are equivalent and that the brand makes no difference to the mechanic.

There was a pro mechanic here once who did exactly what you said. He bought a large HF box and filled it with HF tools. Pretty sure he’s since replaced the box for a very high end box like a maximizer (?) and replaced a lot of the basics with truck tools (mac I think), someone will correct me. Point is, despite what people here want others to believe, the tools are NOT equivalent and it’s not fun to use cheap tools.

Working on cars is hard enough. You are saving SO much money doing the repairs yourself, why make it harder with ****** craftsman wrenches? I did it for years. Craftsman raised panel wrenches are objectively ****. The sockets **** too. If I knew then what Im telling you now, I would have bought snap on wrenches and sockets and ratchets sooner and saved my younger self a lot of frustration. And it’s not $100k. It’s not a mortgage’s worth of tools. I’m not sure I have $5000 in tools including my KRL.

Not trying to sell anyone on Snap On. Just, if you are fixing your cars, you can justify decent quality tools.

I don't have much Craftsman socketry (2 total I believe, bought as singles) but I have some raised panel wrenches.

I don't trust the open end on any wrench to break anything free, but I don't have any more trouble with Craftsman raised box ends as anything else really.

Then again I have little faith in 12 point overall. Probably misguided but I try to crack things with 6 points when I can.

 

[LWB]

Your belief is that the tools are equivalent and that the brand makes no difference to the mechanic.

There was a pro mechanic here once who did exactly what you said. He bought a large HF box and filled it with HF tools. Pretty sure he’s since replaced the box for a very high end box like a maximizer (?) and replaced a lot of the basics with truck tools (mac I think), someone will correct me. Point is, despite what people here want others to believe, the tools are NOT equivalent and it’s not fun to use cheap tools.

Working on cars is hard enough. You are saving SO much money doing the repairs yourself, why make it harder with ****** craftsman wrenches? I did it for years. Craftsman raised panel wrenches are objectively ****. The sockets **** too. If I knew then what Im telling you now, I would have bought snap on wrenches and sockets and ratchets sooner and saved my younger self a lot of frustration. And it’s not $100k. It’s not a mortgage’s worth of tools. I’m not sure I have $5000 in tools including my KRL.

Not trying to sell anyone on Snap On. Just, if you are fixing your cars, you can justify decent quality tools.

Here is the thread you're talking about.

My Harbor Freight Investment

I know this should go in the "Let's See Your Toolbox" thread, but thats not what I want to share. Someone asked me how much money do I have invested in tools. Honestly I had no clue. I save all my receipts, from HF, and auto parts stores. Anyway, I tallied up my HF receipts; the total was...

www.garagejournal.com

He also did a couple of you tube videos.

It's a good read,

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Unless you're a technical type who doesn't like soft images from poo glass.

A friend and his wife are wedding photographers, got a lot of money in camera gear.

They end up cycling out lenses on a schedule, apparently after so many uses the images start to go soft. They can send them in for adjustment via the manufacturer, but their thought is the lenses are easier to just sell used at that point and upgrade. They also say the readjusted ones don't seem to hold their sharpness as long either which means for the price of a rebuild they're not getting the same longevity.

Either can shoot a stunning photo on a cell phone. But I know I couldn't produce one of their shots with their gear.

People ask me why I'm so picky with tools. Blindfolded with gloves on you can feel the difference in how the socket engages a rotted fastener using FDX sockets vs the regular snap ons. Hell the FDX will barely fit on a clean fastener.

When people are paying thousands for wedding pictures, you buy good gear, be it Proto, Wright, snap on, koken, whoever. Better raws they shoot, less time spent editing which is a massive chore.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

This thread has hit a nerve or something with people.

Is it a sound investment if it looses a lot of value? I see Snap on and Mac tool boxes for sale on FB marketplace for big money compard to used Craftsman, Husky, US General and Kennedy and other boxes. They dont move very fast.

I was in a thread earlier about Zero Turn and riding mowers where someone commented that in certain neighborhoods if one guy gets a Zero Turn the others want to keep up with the Jones and buy one. There is some of that with many Snap On owners. Ego and Identity.

So why is a SN tool box a good investment over the many other choices. I have not yet heard a good explanation why.

Because the drawers don't fall out like the Husky box when it's full of 3/4 drive and bearing splitters. LOL. Although eventually one needs to move up to industrial stuff for even more weight. Price a Lista triple bay tool box. 5600ish. Buy a triple bay KRL off the truck for 7k all day. No freight, delivered, trade ins, payments if you like. Or buy used! Even better.

sure people try to keep up with the Jones. Cars, tools, whatever.

Good tools are like a college degree. NOT an investment by the traditional definition as neither accrues value. But they make you money because they're the resources to do the job.

This is Malco, snap on, matco, proto, Mac, Wright, koken, knipex, PI, Astro, picoscope, aeswave.......

And when you've got a lot of stuff it needs organized, because you need that tool yesterday and that job done yesterday.

 

[dchawk81]

A friend and his wife are wedding photographers, got a lot of money in camera gear.

They end up cycling out lenses on a schedule, apparently after so many uses the images start to go soft. They can send them in for adjustment via the manufacturer, but their though is the lenses are easier to just sell used at that point and upgrade. They also say the readjusted ones don't seem to hold their sharpness as long either which means for the price of a rebuild they're not getting the same longevity.

Either can shoot a stunning photo on a cell phone. But I know I couldn't produce one of their shots with their gear.

People ask me why I'm so picky with tools. Blindfolded with gloves on you can feel the difference in how the socket engages a rotted fastener using FDX sockets vs the regular snap ons. Hell the FDX will barely fit on a clean fastener.

When people are paying thousands for wedding pictures, you buy good gear, be it Proto, Wright, snap on, koken, whoever. Better raws they shoot, less time spent editing which is a massive chore.

Yeah I used mostly Canon L series. Although I had a few non-L primes. L series would be Snap-on. Non-L primes are usually close to L zooms and L primes are basically super fast and in a league of their own.

I didn't use any cheap zooms for long. They basically ****. Kind of off color looking and sorta muddy. Not to mention the slow apertures, so they're very "dark."

 

[AEAdam]

Here is the thread you're talking about.

My Harbor Freight Investment

I know this should go in the "Let's See Your Toolbox" thread, but thats not what I want to share. Someone asked me how much money do I have invested in tools. Honestly I had no clue. I save all my receipts, from HF, and auto parts stores. Anyway, I tallied up my HF receipts; the total was...

www.garagejournal.com

He also did a couple of you tube videos.

It's a good read,

Did he ever say why he upgraded?

My recollection was, he was a pro mechanic who outfitted himself with a comprehensive set of (Chinese) tools for very little money. I don’t recall him saying much beyond, ”yeah they are fine, good enough”. Fast forward, tons of comments but none from him, he’s rocking a box full of truck tools. If the Chinese tools were good enough, why aren’t they still good enough?

I think theres a certain sort here who romanticizes cheap tools, like there are points to be earned for fixing ferraris with rusty craftsman tools from 1972. I’m curious how John’s story supports that popular narrative or not.

 

[dchawk81]

Did he ever say why he upgraded?

My recollection was, he was a pro mechanic who outfitted himself with a comprehensive set of (Chinese) tools for very little money. I don’t recall him saying much beyond, ”yeah they are fine, good enough”. Fast forward, tons of comments but none from him, he’s rocking a box full of truck tools. If the Chinese tools were good enough, why aren’t they still good enough?

I think theres a certain sort here who romanticizes cheap tools, like there are points to be earned for fixing ferraris with rusty craftsman tools from 1972. I’m curious how John’s story supports that popular narrative or not.

Actual cheap tools ****. Like the unknown origin 26 piece set I got on Amazon for 29 dollars. Raised panel, not Craftsman, shorter than average, rough, and sharp edges that actually hurt. Lol.

Or those sockets that have off center broaching you'd see under tool tents. Not really even usable.

There's a lot of inexpensive not tool truck or industrial stuff out there that's quite good though.

 

[LWB]

Did he ever say why he upgraded?

My recollection was, he was a pro mechanic who outfitted himself with a comprehensive set of (Chinese) tools for very little money. I don’t recall him saying much beyond, ”yeah they are fine, good enough”. Fast forward, tons of comments but none from him, he’s rocking a box full of truck tools. If the Chinese tools were good enough, why aren’t they still good enough?

I think theres a certain sort here who romanticizes cheap tools, like there are points to be earned for fixing ferraris with rusty craftsman tools from 1972. I’m curious how John’s story supports that popular narrative or not.

I believe the basic story was that he was using the cheap tools to start his business and it did well. After establishing his business he invested in better tools, which makes complete sense to me. He stills has some HF in his collection. Mostly Mac with some Snappy.

I'm starting to understand this myself. I've used Canadian Tire tools most of my life but have since purchased a couple of ratchets that are Snap on and it's night and day.

I have a 3/8" digital lower end torque wrench that has broke twice. I just invested in a 3/8" split beam Precision instruments wrench. I've already spent the same money on the lower end ones. So I spent double in the end... The "buy once cry once" moto seems to be ringing true in some cases.

Good tools were out of reach for me for many years. My tools got the job done. But the higher end tools are sure nice to work with!

 

[Snaparxon]

This thread seems to be trending more towards things that people who don't own Snap on say.

 

[nbpt100]

Because the drawers don't fall out like the Husky box when it's full of 3/4 drive and bearing splitters. LOL. Although eventually one needs to move up to industrial stuff for even more weight. Price a Lista triple bay tool box. 5600ish. Buy a triple bay KRL off the truck for 7k all day. No freight, delivered, trade ins, payments if you like. Or buy used! Even better.

sure people try to keep up with the Jones. Cars, tools, whatever.

Good tools are like a college degree. NOT an investment by the traditional definition as neither accrues value. But they make you money because they're the resources to do the job.

This is Malco, snap on, matco, proto, Mac, Wright, koken, knipex, PI, Astro, picoscope, aeswave.......

And when you've got a lot of stuff it needs organized, because you need that tool yesterday and that job done yesterday.

That is the best explanation I have heard to date. Most non pros are not using 3/4 drive. 1000 lb draws may make a lot of sense to a truck mechanic. Or someone who needs to stand on the bottom drawer. As someone who wrenches on ODPE and my own and friends cars I am surviving just fine with a Husky, C'man and US General boxes. I have lubed the slides and they are working as they should.

I have lots of tools but not very heavy ones. How Heavey is a drawer full of 1/4 to 1/2" Metric sockets with some ratchets? That is about the average weight in each drawer. The few heavy things I have go on a steel shelf. I dont need to stand on the bottom drawer or even have over 100 lbs in any one drawer. My guess it that is most all non pro Auto mechanics. And even some of them.

Organization is very important. That is why I have invested in good socket rails, plier holders, wrench holders and drawer organizes. There have been some good posts on here about this in the past. One member posted a good article on the levels of tool organization. I will repost it if I can find it.

 

[AEAdam]

I believe the basic story was that he was using the cheap tools to start his business and it did well. After establishing his business he invested in better tools, which makes complete sense to me. He stills has some HF in his collection. Mostly Mac with some Snappy.

I'm starting to understand this myself. I've used Canadian Tire tools most of my life but have since purchased a couple of ratchets that are Snap on and it's night and day.

I have a 3/8" digital lower end torque wrench that has broke twice. I just invested in a 3/8" split beam Precision instruments wrench. I've already spent the same money on the lower end ones. So I spent double in the end... The "buy once cry once" moto seems to be ringing true in some cases.

Good tools were out of reach for me for many years. My tools got the job done. But the higher end tools are sure nice to work with!

Right on. And that’s my story as well and may have unwittingly helped feed the same romanticized narrative I’m now cautioning against.

Out of college, I bought a Porsche 944S2 and used it as my daily driver for 12 yrs and 100kmiles, finally selling it for nearly what i paid for it. I did all of the maintenance with craftsman tools. When I started upgrading, the work got easier, less rounded fasteners, less busted knuckles, such that, in hindsight, I wish I had upgraded sooner.

It may be a rite of passage; Maybe everyone needs starter tools like they need starter houses, starter cars, starter marriages. In hindsight, I’m just saying, it’s really more efficient to skip the starters when possible. Where are John’s Pittsburgh wrenches now?

 

[LWB]

I don't think I would or could change anything. We had 4 kids and 1 income lol

It does bug me now that I cheaped out and got what I paid for. It's hard for me to spend the big bucks after years and years of being frugal.

 

[M635_Guy]

I think you were missing the point of what I was trying to get across. Probably my fault for not being clearer. If I as a Professional walk into a supposed high level shop and see guys using HF tools on stuff, right there I'm making some judgements.

I got your point. I just one I just don't agree with and find a little strange. I judge the work. I can't say I wouldn't raise an eyebrow if I saw a bunch of Pittsburgh ratchets and wrenches in a Yukon box, but ultimately the overall vibe of the shop is more likely to steer my first impressions. But if I saw Icon tools in an Icon box, it wouldn't create an impression either way.

FWIW, I rarely walk in anywhere cold for something that matters.

I've never seen a guy who cared about his work, worked at a high level using junk for tools. In this business it just doesn't happen. Maybe so in other fields, not this one.

I think the difference is a lot of people have their viewpoint set by what HF was 20+ years ago. They were junk tools for the most part. These days, even their most-basic hand tools are pretty decent. Their mid and upper lines (mid is Bremen, Quinn, etc., upper is Icon, etc) are legitimately good. The quality of hand tools is so much higher overall than it was in the old HF days that it's pretty amazin g. I was skeptical when I re-approached HF. They're doing a lot right.

 

[dchawk81]

I got your point. I just one I just don't agree with and find a little strange. I judge the work. I can't say I wouldn't raise an eyebrow if I saw a bunch of Pittsburgh ratchets and wrenches in a Yukon box, but ultimately the overall vibe of the shop is more likely to steer my first impressions. But if I saw Icon tools in an Icon box, it wouldn't create an impression either way.

FWIW, I rarely walk in anywhere cold for something that matters.


I think the difference is a lot of people have their viewpoint set by what HF was 20+ years ago. They were junk tools for the most part. These days, even their most-basic hand tools are pretty decent. Their mid and upper lines (mid is Bremen, Quinn, etc., upper is Icon, etc) are legitimately good. The quality of hand tools is so much higher overall than it was in the old HF days that it's pretty amazin g. I was skeptical when I re-approached HF. They're doing a lot right.

Agreed. And there's a lot of good out there that's neither HF nor SO.

 

[M635_Guy]

The thing about photography is it's subjective. A box camera or **** lenses just don't do what I like to do.

That's not a "technical guy" perspective though. I 100% understand it - hell, I live it as a pretty-active and very-picky photographer - but it's outside my point. If you with a pro body and lens and an outstanding pro with a box camera are given the same 'assignment' the pro is going to bring back the goods. Because it isn't the tool, it's the operator.

As a hobby yes I understand why you wouldn't outfit yourself with the best gear. As a Professional if one were to do that, that would tell me that he/she doesn't really care enough to use the best to get the best results. The best in that field use hi quality stuff just like no decent painter would ever consider using a HF gun to spray $1200/gallon basecoat.

I have pro-grade body and lenses. And you're right that a pro shooting Nikon will have their pro-grade stuff for the most part, though when you look it's as much about them having backups and a workflow as anything else.

I know a guy who's a fantastic photographer who had his car packed a few minutes early for a job and decided to have another cup of coffee. He went out to his car to find it empty of almost all his equipment (the left some bounces/etc., and took all of the hardware) a little over an hour before he was supposed to be shooting a wedding. There was a Best Buy on the way, so he went in and bought the best stuff he could (which would be a mix of HF Pittsburgh and some Quinn equivalents) and shot the wedding. I saw the results. They were terrific.

For so many things, it's operator, not tool

If someone stole your expensive guns and you had to use the best thing you could get at HF to do a job, I bet it would be better than the less-experienced guy using your stolen guns.

A friend and his wife are wedding photographers, got a lot of money in camera gear.

They end up cycling out lenses on a schedule, apparently after so many uses the images start to go soft. They can send them in for adjustment via the manufacturer, but their thought is the lenses are easier to just sell used at that point and upgrade. They also say the readjusted ones don't seem to hold their sharpness as long either which means for the price of a rebuild they're not getting the same longevity.

That's pretty odd to me. Bodies tend to age with clicks, but glass generally doesn't that I've ever heard of (and I was pretty immersed in that world for a while). Lens adjustment can be done in-camera - the specific lens is "registered" with the camera and you go through a series of shots to dial them in perfectly so that every time you slap that lens on the body the corrected settings take over (that's true of Nikon at least - I have to think Canon has something similar).

If they are having that kind of problem consistently, it's almost certainly something going on with their body, not the glass. But I digress...

When people are paying thousands for wedding pictures, you buy good gear, be it Proto, Wright, snap on, koken, whoever. Better raws they shoot, less time spent editing which is a massive chore.

I shot several weddings as a second, focusing on candids. The first thing I noticed about professional wedding photographers was the number of backup/spares they had. It was pretty crazy. Being a paid photographer was not fun at all - I went back to being the happy hobbyist.

Actual cheap tools ****. Like the unknown origin 26 piece set I got on Amazon for 29 dollars. Raised panel, not Craftsman, shorter than average, rough, and sharp edges that actually hurt. Lol.

There's a lot of inexpensive not tool truck or industrial stuff out there that's quite good though.

This is the net of it. Actual cheap tools **** but there are some great non-truck tools that perform just fine at a pro level, even if they come from HF.

 

[AJHD]

And honestly I store some of my stuff in cardboard boxes. Storage is pretty much the least important part of quality work. It's really not even relevant beyond organization for efficiency.

You store tools in cardboard boxes in the shop? Are they on top of your box or on shelves, or just on the floor next to your box?

What sort of tools/"stuff" are you storing in these boxes? I can understand storing supplies and parts and things like that. At CAT we had separate plastic containers for each tech on racks in the bays used for parts storage and commonly used for other things like supplies, large PPE, etc.

If you store tools in cardboard boxes I'm curious of your setup/methodology. Everyone has different views of storage and organization and what works for them. At CAT we had a guy who used Milwaukee PackOut's, another guy stored anything in a box or case on a plastic cart, etc.

 

[5ubtle]

I'm all for laughing, his "comedy" is just weak. Too over the top and it becomes cringey.
Had he cut out the fake redneck voice it would've been decent.

It's a different-strokes kind of thing. ... So I agree it's not for everyone, but telling other people what they should like (and have a healthier life for it - lol) is just silly.

For the record, my comment wasn't directed at you fellows. There is nothing wrong with "not liking the comedy".

My comment was directed at people who say things like:

• "It seems those without snap on tools are obsessed with convincing themselves and others they don’t need them",
• "I don't get why Snap-On hate has become a movement. People really have time to scour YouTube for this stuff?" and
• "Click-baiters gunna click-bait".

 

[bpwoodworking]

Personally I try to maintain a balance between thriftiness and a desire for the nicer stuff. I recently bought a Snap-on toolbox used, it’s a nice box but I’m glad I didn’t pay msrp. I ‘need’ a lot of toolboxes, so I’ve mostly bought Kennedy boxes used, but the Snap-On is a nicer box for sure.

I’ve used a lot of snap-on tools (never owned many) and they have never let me down. For my shop, I generally buy European or Japanese hand tools.

Woodworking tends to be pretty costly in both equipment and space requirements so having a nice set of mechanic tools for repairing older machines has been a cost savings overall.

I’m mostly just glad companies like snap-on exist and maintain their quality level.

 

[Firebrick43]

P

Right. So if you buy a ****** sprayer it might affect the quality of your work compared to a quality one.

Mechanical repairs are not typically cosmetic in nature the way a paint job is.

That's from the perspective of the consumer paying you, who claims he thinks Snap-on tools mean a better mechanic.


From the business owner, mechanic, or painter's perspective it's about getting the job done while balancing time with ease with profit margin. Snap-on doesn't even make all the tools for every task in the world anyway.

It’s called having pride in one’s work.

Every professional mech in the 25 years I did it that had a large amount of cheap tools was a hack that I have met.

Being mainly industrial most of those pro’s were not using snap on but Proto, wright and sk with snap on ratchets mainly. But the guys three guys that had nothing but harbor freight because that is cheap and good enough we’re hacks. They also had no pride in their work.

There was a few guys when I worked the Ag side that had HF tools on the service truck because of theft issues or losing tools in the mud/field. But they had nicer tools back in the shop in their bay

 

[Pinemarten]

Cheaper tools doesn't make you a hack. Poor craftsmanship makes you a hack!

Craftsmanship isn't sold out of a tool truck, a store, or over the internet. I would bet every single poster here has improved the quality level of their work over the years. I would also bet their cars and homes have gotten better in that time.

That said, I'm still not buying a Snap-on hammer. Sockets, ratchets, flare-nut wrenches from SO are great. But a hammer?
Oh yeah, somebody will chime in that their HF hammer died after a year. But when we are busy rating the "hack-factor" of a shop based on the presence of HF tools, I might add that seeing a tech beating on some part with a SO hammer might not impress me either!

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Cheaper tools doesn't make you a hack. Poor craftsmanship makes you a hack!

Craftsmanship isn't sold out of a tool truck, a store, or over the internet. I would bet every single poster here has improved the quality level of their work over the years. I would also bet their cars and homes have gotten better in that time.

That said, I'm still not buying a Snap-on hammer. Sockets, ratchets, flare-nut wrenches from SO are great. But a hammer?
Oh yeah, somebody will chime in that their HF hammer died after a year. But when we are busy rating the "hack-factor" of a shop based on the presence of HF tools, I might add that seeing a tech beating on some part with a SO hammer might not impress me either!

Hammer can be a good value if they infinitely replace it when I over-strike enough times.


In automotive, after 5 to 10 years, if someone is still exclusively using cheap stuff it usually means they're doing mediocre work. I know I know, not ALL of them. But when I see the Husky and HF tools get unloaded it usually means one of a few things. Same deal as when they don't have a lot of tools.

1) Hourly. They can afford to suffer because they're paid the same.

2) They have not made enough to buy more/better quality stuff. Skill or money management issue.

3) newer to the industry. Nothing wrong with that.

Nobody has to show up with a Proto master set. But when it's all cheap stuff, that says something. It's not prejudice, I don't care what tools they use so long as they don't bother me or my tools. I've met plenty of hacks with a snap on box too, tool truck box owners are a mixed bag. But when you're talking bottom of the market tools, the number of quality techs who produce with those tools is very small. Some of it is related to time in the industry, no shame in that. But 10 years in using stuff from Lowes, I see a consistant trend.

As another poster once said, there's plenty of tool truck box owners that are "all hat no cattle" meaning theyve got all that box and nothing else. That's an entirely different discussion.

 

[Pinemarten]

So, does my work quality go up while I'm using my Hazet wrenches and Koken ratchet, but dip when using my Pittsburg low profile ratchet or offset double boxed wrenches?

Maybe judge the craftsmanship by the quality of the work. Charles Russel the Western artist couldn't afford oil paint as a young man, so he painted watercolors. Later in life, he mostly did oil paintings. There was nothing "hack" about his early work!

 

[Firebrick43]

So, does my work quality go up while I'm using my Hazet wrenches and Koken ratchet, but dip when using my Pittsburg low profile ratchet or offset double boxed wrenches?

Maybe judge the craftsmanship by the quality of the work. Charles Russel the Western artist couldn't afford oil paint as a young man, so he painted watercolors. Later in life, he mostly did oil paintings. There was nothing "hack" about his early work!

You are not reading what is said. Neither of us said that using one cheap tool make you a hack or using one professional grade tool makes you an expert.

However if you are a professional and do top grade work in whatever trade, be it fence building, wood working or rocket building, you will gravitate towards top grade tools.

You can see this even hundreds of years ago in the tools profession cabinet makers used.

It’s been equally observed that if you’re a professional and only used cheap tools after several years, you generally do hack work. That has been lots of people’s observations.

I have never met a single tradesman yet that produces top quality work have cheap tool’s exclusively.