Things to ask asphalt driveway contractor?

[jcar302]

So I need to get my driveway paved. I'm not a big fan of outsourcing anything, but this one is above what I can handle.

The asphalt contractors by me are fast talkers, all have different opinions, many are related and pricing is all over the damn place.

My driveway is roughly 80x20.
It's asphalt now and is a total disaster. My snow blower threw a good portion on the lawn this year.
It's roughly 20 years old, but it looks 40 years old.

Some guys say tear up the driveway (which is what I want), some say go over it, which sounds like a wreck on a wreck.

What depth should the base be?
What depth should the asphalt be?
Any special materials for the base?

I'm likely to have 20+ more years at this house and I'd like to not do it again.

Whoever did my current driveway did a **** job, whoever did my neighbors across the street about the same time 20 years ago did a great job since other than tree root damage his driveway is pretty nice.

Just want to be educated so I don't get talked in circles.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Randy in Maine]

Suggestion....

ask your neighbors or the town code enforcement guy who they would use.

You really have to have a solid well compacted base to start with. That costs what it costs.

Normally they will use 2-3" of "reclaim" (ground up old asphalt) all rolled out and then about 4-5" of new asphalt on top of that all rolled out, and pitched to drain someplace. Here that part was about $2.50 per square foot.

 

[jcar302]

Yeah, my neighbor is picky and wants his redone at the same time. He doesn't remember who he used.
I have a guy who wants to stop by later this afternoon, so no time to really talk to a town enforcement guy.

While i'm not doing it today, being educated is important.

My neighbor is a little high strung, so he can be bad cop when it comes to policing the base and asphalt thickness. I don't really want to stand out there with a tape measure, but he for sure will, lol.

 

[Kaizen]

so when I did mine I had the gypsies do it. they paved 4 spaces wide for a grand. just laid over the compacted stone dust I had been parking on for years. however the 2 inches they put down has come up and cracked in places. that was done 15 years ago! just sayin I got a good deal.
next time i'll have it removed and graded and the whole deal. way more expensive but it will last a long time as long as you keep sealer on it. you'll get a better price for the two of you then just one.

 

[zak77]

It'll depend on the current substrate. If i can be used then it'll be much cheaper but if it's ****, and it sounds like it is, then they need to remove the old asphalt and substrate. The deeper the base the better it will be so i'd go a minimum of 12" deep of processed gravel, possibly with geotextile as a base. Then go 1 1/2" of base material and 1 1/2" top coat. The prep will determine the final product over the years. Skimp on the compacting and substrate and it'll show in a short amount of time.

 

[tjdux]

Curious but not just put in concrete. Obviously costs more but should last a lot longer

Signiture; Check out my garage progress http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352703

 

[ToolHoarder]

It'll depend on the current substrate. If i can be used then it'll be much cheaper but if it's ****, and it sounds like it is, then they need to remove the old asphalt and substrate. The deeper the base the better it will be so i'd go a minimum of 12" deep of processed gravel, possibly with geotextile as a base. Then go 1 1/2" of base material and 1 1/2" top coat. The prep will determine the final product over the years. Skimp on the compacting and substrate and it'll show in a short amount of time.

Assuming the original driveway was put over 4" of compacted gravel, the OP would need to have it removed then dug deeper to get a 12" base. That would be a bout 75 cubic yards of burden removal, or about 5-6 dump truckloads. Here in Minnesota with a fair amount of winter frost heave, I don't see a lot driveways being put in with 12" of base and 3" of asphalt. 3 to 4" base usually and 3-4" asphalt, and you're lucky if you don't get cheated on those thicknesses.

not disputing that 12" is a great way to go, but is necessary or practical.

 

[jack stand]

90% of what matters is what's underneath. HMA (asphalt pavement)is not structural like concrete. You want a........

Well drained solid base
Material delivered hot and rolled hot (breakdown pass) and not with a little honda powered 1ton roller. Schedule it during July/August, hot weather is good!
3" min. compacted depth. Generally you should have 1/4" per inch (laid) compaction out of the paver, so 3 3/4" out of the paver finished to 3" approx.
You should ask about the mix, a 19.5 mm stone size is a good compromise between strength & smooth finish for a "one shot" or single pass driveway. An approved State Roads mix might be worth asking for. The plants will fool around with the quantities of liquid asphalt (per ton) for "driveway job's", the expensive part of the materials.
If you could group a few neighbors together and make it a full day's work you all should benefit price wise.

 

[DaveIRL]

Curious but not just put in concrete. Obviously costs more but should last a lot longer

Signiture; Check out my garage progress http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352703

no it doesnt, i got a price for tarmac for my house, and for the same price i got concrete around the house and to the garage, they also put in a slopes so all the water runs int the middle into pipes to percolation area I believe its a way better.

 

[tjdux]

no it doesnt, i got a price for tarmac for my house, and for the same price i got concrete around the house and to the garage, they also put in a slopes so all the water runs int the middle into pipes to percolation area I believe its a way better.

Yeah im no expert but concrete seems more stable and long term...

Signiture; Check out my garage progress http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352703

 

[Bob275]

You want a well compacted gravel base (6" minimum). A minimum of 3" of asphalt, spread in two 1-1/2" compacted/rolled lifts. Stay onsite, measure everything and watch like a hawk! If you don't, they will cut corners and you won't get what you pay for. Basically what zak77 said above.

 

[jcar302]

Thanks for the advice guys.

At 12 inches, i'm pretty sure that will exceed the cost to just do cement.

I met with him (who I had actually spoken with previously on a job site).
$5000 for 5 inches of base, 2 inches of asphalt.
That's for 1600 ft of existing drive way and a additional 500sqft bump out for another car to the left.

When I gave him the measurements last year when we met (sight unseen), 1600sqft with the 500sqft bump out, he gave me a price before the bump at $4500, then when I said bump it out, he said he'd throw it in.

And this is exactly why I posted here.
I'm an electrical contractor, I give you a price and the price is the price. If there was a ton of room to negotiate, doesn't that mean I would be charging you too much to begin with?

I'm going to get quite a few quotes on this one, including a few concrete quotes.

 

[lilredex]

As has been suggested, go with concrete. Did ours in 2004, 6" in driveway, 4" in the rear of the house. It will outlast me...best driveway I've ever had.

 

[jcar302]

Yeah, i'm going to explore all options including the concrete. Some people I know suggest concrete is taxable on your property taxes here in NJ, but I've yet to get any solid evidence of that.

At $5000 it wasn't a gotta take it price.
For my own sanity, I need to know the concrete price before I commit to any asphalt price, imagine a guy came in and said $6000 concrete and I paid $5000 for asphalt. That would be some serious buyers remorse.

 

[kd3pc]

the first question to ask them all......


I want 4" (or 6") AFTER it is rolled. Some companies will sell you 4" rolled. Which is exactly what you will get when finished, 4" of poured asphalt and THEN rolled it out. That will give you 2" in most spots...if you are lucky.

Like flooring, the key to long life is PREP.... I am with your neighbor, tape or probe in hand....

Concrete is my choice if at all possible.

 

[SARG]

Just a couple opinions:
I had my first driveway done by a local small time gypsy and it lasted 20 years with me patching it together each year.
I finally had the money to get it redone. It cost me over $18k but I doubt I'll ever have issues now that it has been done for a decade. In my case they dug up & replaced 12 to 18 inches of base.
I suggest you be sure that geo-fabric is used and I would look for the "large" outfit that has the big equipment and trained manpower needed for a job that will last.

 

[Bronson]

Last asphalt guy I hired took deposits from me and 3 neighbors and disappeared.
Never saw him again. My fault for paying in advance, never again.
I did my driveway in concrete, have never regretted it.

 

[ard]

Asphalt tidbit:

There were two processes vying for federal appproval years ago.

What we have today, batch asphalt and then a 'lay the stone, grade, then apply asphalt emulsion in place' process.

It was felt that the batch system- with a central location doing the mixing and QC- would result in more uniform roads. That won.

The other system can still be used, Id see an article on it somewhere (fine homebuiding?) where they used colored gravel- over time, the driveway gets a slight colored look from the stones showing though.

Ive got an 300ft asphalt driveway, 20+ years- in OK shape. And a 1200sqft concrete apron directly off the garage.

 

[1jjpop]

When you hire them ,tell them you are going to core it ,to see if you get the depth you paid for. And see what they say ??????

 

[MikeF]

If you are parking on it, do a cement apron, vehicles will sink into asphalt in short order. When I laid asphalt, we did around 8-10 of crushed if we were doing the grade work. Other wise we would clean up what was there and lay 3.5 inches compacted to roughly 90 percent. After compaction, the asphalt will obviously be about 1/2-3/4 of and inch thinner. We used whatever the costumer wanted for the mix, gave options. Some used road mix which is stronger but less "pretty".

Make sure they spray a quality weed killer along the edge where they are paving, at least a foot in. Been on some gypsy jobs to repair weed damage on months old driveways. If the existing drive is really bad, tear it out and start fresh or the new one won't last as long.

 

[MikeF]

When you hire them ,tell them you are going to core it ,to see if you get the depth you paid for. And see what they say ??????

We carried probes made from 1/4 inch bar stock with collars on em to check random spots as we went. You can obviously feel the compacted base underneigth, less unsightly holes the need filled as you can usually push material back in and tamp it.

Also, I forgot to add above, see if they tamp the edges. Most just roll and go which let's the edges crumble away. We used to tamp and angle on all driveways along the edges to hold them together longer. We would tamp with the loots then with taps behind the paver. Then we would go back and work the edge as the roller went by. Hard work but very durable, and looks nicer

 

[jcar302]

If you are parking on it, do a cement apron, vehicles will sink into asphalt in short order..

What I was thinking possibly was to do about 1 car length (plus a few feet) in front of the garage in concrete. I have an e150 work van I park on it daily.
The apron leading into the garage is a sunken mess. It's part of my immediate concern since the corner by the house is now pitching towards the house I surely don't want water issues in the basement. I'll take a pic tomorrow.

If cement price is really expensive for the whole thing, I may consider doing the apron in front of the garage for now, then adding to it later when I have enough cash.

More and more i'm thinking concrete is the right choice.

 

[m91196]

All about the prep either material. The better the base the better the results. Gravel is cheaper than concrete or bituminous so demand the most. Binder and finish if your using asphalt.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I'm in the same boat, my asphalt drive is going on 18 years old and its a mess. I have a approx. 35' x 70' apron and then a 10' x 550' driveway........so it's not going to be cheap, I've been trying to figure out a way to do it in concrete.
I'm thinking about min 15k for asphalt.........Last month this guy knocks on my door and says he is lining up asphalt jobs for the coming spring and he says he'll fill all the low spots and holes and then add 2" of new asphalt on top for $7500 ( I'm thinking that's cheap) I told him I'll have to think about it, then just as he's leaving he says "ok I'll do it for $6000.........and I thought this is got to be some kind of scam, anyway I told him I'd let him know.

 

[ejm979]

Check out Cross County Paving in Monmouth Junction NJ. I had them do mine last summer and am very satisified. Great prep work with the crused stone base and final product looks excellent. I had a concern with water run off towards the side of my house and he was able to give it the right pitch to fix this problem.
I called several companies in the area for estimates. The few that called back and showed up were completly out of line with there prices and were unsure if they could easily handle my water run off concern. Cross County showed up, came up with a solution for my concerns and gave me a very reasonable price for the size of my driveway..
Its worth giving them a call, depending on where you are at in NJ.. I will try and post some pics..

 

[zippyslug31]

Hello. new here. Had anyone paved their own driveway before? I would really like to do my own myself but have zero idea where to start. I love DIY but lack experience

I'm sure anything is DIY if you have (1) the proper tools, (2) the skill, and (3) time, but I hired my driveway out. Watching the pros made me glad I did - much larger crew than I was expecting and several specialty pieces of equipment. They had the entire job done in a few hours. Granted, my driveway is 500' long and cost me a decent amount to have them pave it, but I'd still gladly pay for that sort of work today.

 

[SILVERPLATE]

Use caution in Texas, asphalt paving is the number one profession or scam of Gypsies.

 

[mike93lx]

Hello. new here. Had anyone paved their own driveway before? I would really like to do my own myself but have zero idea where to start. I love DIY but lack experience

Start your own thread.


But if you take a quick look at the equipment used to do this right, you'll have your answer

 

[zak77]

I helped my buddy's lay down asphalt for a section of his driveway, about 600 sq ft, using just a plate compactor, rakes, and hand tampers. One of our friends worked for a company that had a bunch of asphalt leftover from a local job so he brought it over and helped us out. It was a real workout pushing all of it around to get an even thickness then it got hit with the plate compactor. And considering the asphalt was cooler than it should have been, it laid down pretty good. And more surprisingly, it held up pretty damn good also. You can pave without all the equipment but expect a ton of work with mediocre results.

 

[Lassen Forge]

My opinion, for what it's worth? For a short driveway or apron, concrete is your best bet. You will still need the underlayment, but it won't fall apart (as long as it's done right) like asphalt that goes too long and cooks out. Asphalt as a DIY? I DID asphalt work for OT pocket money with our paving crews, and it was ******* hard and grueling work WITH a crew AND the right equipment. I wouldn't DIY asphalt work, and I've DONE asphalt work. Thank you, but no.

If you go Asphalt - MAKE SURE the mix comes in hot - over 450º F. Below that and you'll have a ravelly mess. that will come apart. Be there with an IR gun like they have at Home Despot or Lowes AND a pocket thermometer that goes that high (think candy makers thermometer) and watch them like a hawk. If it doesn't come in at temp, send it back. Period. DO NOT let them push you around (and yes, they will try), or try to BS you, but yeah.

The guy who said to fill over the top of your failed driveway - sure, you want your new work to fall apart, too. I'd tell him to pound sand, Know that road outside of town they paved last year and it already has alligator all over? That somehow matches the alligatoring under it?
(What I love is having some guy tell me he knows better than I do, when I did highway maintenance for decades... but "you're just a girl, we know better than you, dearie"...) BTW - there's a reason we paved in the heat of summer, and it wasn't because we were sadists - it has to be hot and stay hot for the pour to set, and it's easier to move the mix around.

And yeah, it's a common "thing" to tell you they'll sell you a "full 5" blanket" which actually ends up being maybe 4" loose compacts down to 1.5", because THEIR money is on you being a nice guy, and not being there with a tape measure, a IR temp gun and a thermometer... Oh, that 6" (or 12") base? You best better not only check that BUT make sure it's graded right. Your "azzole" neighbor standing there with a tape measure and an IR gun - is right on the money. AND Skimp on the underlayment (which is actually the most important part of the driveway). or freeway spec is - if they can cut your throat by leaning it out or using **** aggregate, they will. Hell, they try it for asphalt for a state highway, you BET they'll cut your throat.

Yeah, you'll pay more for Concrete, but its worth it. And whatever you decide - you really honest to Godfrey NEED to take the day or 2 off and BE THERE watching them, checking them, and making sure they're not pulling wool over your eyes. If you're not, then well... they're honey badgers.