Thinking about sockets

[wyattstihl]

So I have a question for you guys, that I thought was pretty interesting when it came into my mind.

Whats stopping an aspiring mechanic from just buying impact sockets, that will do everything, rather than having to buy chrome/impact? Is there some reason you should have both?


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[Ray-CA]

I've found that most impact sockets are thicker walled than the "standard" socket. That might prevent them from being able to be used in some tight spots.

Ray

 

[AA/FC]

Working with big and bulky impact sockets in tight situations where they are not needed sounds like a major headache to me. YMMV

 

[plinker]

The only reason to use chrome sockets is a thinner wall. If I could go back (said many) I'd have only bought impact sockets.

Danaher made (Craftsman/Allen/Armstrong/ete..) impact sockets are notably thicker walled then others. The Sunex sockets in 1/4 & 3/8 are very close to the same thickness as a chrome socket. Very few times have I had to change sockets because the impact socket wouldnt fit.

Best bet is buy 6pt impacts and 12pt chrome sockets (because they are thinner walled then 6pt chrome)

12pt impact sockets are handy but not super common in automotive anymore (Ford truck driveshafts were 12mm 12pt. & some 8mm 12pt)

The flip side of buying chrome sockets first is then you'll have some tools to use at home.

 

[Mr_B]

They have different material specs and design features .
grey pneumatic sockets closet you get to both in one concept .
personally I prefer both and use as intended .

 

[3jakes]

I just replaced the oil pressure switch in my minivan.
No way would a normal 1-1/16 deep impact fit in there.

 

[Dingleburry]

Ive read somewhere impact sockets are softer so less brittle, or more tough, allowing them to absorb impacts without breaking. And that standard sockets are harder and more brittle less tough for constant non impact forces

Edit

Here read this. Snap-on Technical Reference: Impact vs. Chrome Sockets - Facebook

 

[WWheeler]

The only reason to use chrome sockets is a thinner wall. If I could go back (said many) I'd have only bought impact sockets.

Danaher made (Craftsman/Allen/Armstrong/ete..) impact sockets are notably thicker walled then others. The Sunex sockets in 1/4 & 3/8 are very close to the same thickness as a chrome socket. Very few times have I had to change sockets because the impact socket wouldnt fit. [...]

Hmmm, my USA and China made craftsman impacts both are a lot thinner walled than my Matco ADV impact sockets are and in turn they are a lot thinner than my old Horror Fright set.

All that said, I don't like messing with impact sockets on ratchets. They don't lock on the same, and I'm not going back the box to get a chrome socket after I found out the impact was too fat to fit. I'm always taking the tool I think is most likely to work on the first go. That's because I have both though. I guess if I was just starting over it'd make sense to go impact for starters, but once you've had to borrow a chrome socket more than once you need to go get your own set.

 

[flushcut]

You really really need both in every size and drive imaginable from multiple vendors stored in multiple boxes to be looked at and polished as you see fit.

In reality I have no real advise to tell you OP.

 

[Wamsutta]

One extreme is definitely better than the other. Instead of using chrome sockets on an impact gun, I'd rather see a guy with all impacts and no chromes.

 

[gtlaw]

Impacts only is completely feasible. If I was me I would choose GP duo because they have the detents that regular chrome sockets have. The only downside to them is the shallows are rather tall.

 

[M6erfan]

Chrome are shallow & deep are impacts, for me, in 1/4" & 1/2" drive

 

[Tallpilot]

They have different material specs and design features .
grey pneumatic sockets closet you get to both in one concept .
personally I prefer both and use as intended .

Ive read somewhere impact sockets are softer so less brittle, or more tough, allowing them to absorb impacts without breaking. And that standard sockets are harder and more brittle less tough for constant non impact forces

Edit

Here read this. Snap-on Technical Reference: Impact vs. Chrome Sockets - Facebook

All that said, I don't like messing with impact sockets on ratchets. They don't lock on the same, and I'm not going back the box to get a chrome socket after I found out the impact was too fat to fit. I'm always taking the tool I think is most likely to work on the first go. That's because I have both though. I guess if I was just starting over it'd make sense to go impact for starters, but once you've had to borrow a chrome socket more than once you need to go get your own set.

I like using tools the way the designer intended. Impact sockets can be hard to get on and off hand ratchets. I like having a variety of drive sizes and heights and broach depths because each situation has a different optimal setup.

Socketry and drive tools have advanced quite a bit and what once required a 1/2" drive can be done with 3/8" and many times 1/4" is the only thing that fits and you swear it will break but it doesn't. Socketry is also relatively cheap compared to other things an apprentice mechanic will need.

If money were really tight I would suggest 1/4 and 3/8 in chrome and 1/2 in impact to start if we are talking automotive. Heavy equipment would be a different kettle of fish.

 

[Wamsutta]

I like using tools the way the designer intended. Impact sockets can be hard to get on and off hand ratchets. I like having a variety of drive sizes and heights and broach depths because each situation has a different optimal setup.

Socketry and drive tools have advanced quite a bit and what once required a 1/2" drive can be done with 3/8" and many times 1/4" is the only thing that fits and you swear it will break but it doesn't. Socketry is also relatively cheap compared to other things an apprentice mechanic will need.

If money were really tight I would suggest 1/4 and 3/8 in chrome and 1/2 in impact to start if we are talking automotive. Heavy equipment would be a different kettle of fish.

Why's that? You just gotta line the friction ball up with the hole in the socket is all...

 

[rmsg0040]

All I use is impact, never had an issue with clearance

 

[Professional Tool User]

Chrome sockets are for the most part a waste of money. Buy them as they are needed. I've actually compared the wall thickness between my chrome and impact sockets in 1/4 drive I can't tell any difference in wall thickness by eye.

 

[plinker]

I like using tools the way the designer intended. Impact sockets can be hard to get on and off hand ratchets. I like having a variety of drive sizes and heights and broach depths because each situation has a different optimal setup.

Socketry and drive tools have advanced quite a bit and what once required a 1/2" drive can be done with 3/8" and many times 1/4" is the only thing that fits and you swear it will break but it doesn't. Socketry is also relatively cheap compared to other things an apprentice mechanic will need.

If money were really tight I would suggest 1/4 and 3/8 in chrome and 1/2 in impact to start if we are talking automotive. Heavy equipment would be a different kettle of fish.

Never really had a problem getting impacts on or off ratchets, The GS936 ratchet I bought years ago, you had to almost pry the sockets off until it got broke in. I usually line up the hole in the socket with the detent ball, takes 1/4 second.

When working heavy equipment & trucks, it was impact on everything as much as possible. Mack steering wheels (pre Volvo) and Cummin's flywheels were a couple of places where a socket thicker then a 12pt chrome would not fit. I have not run into many instances doing automotive (so far) where there's been a problem. I would say I use 3/8 impact tools more though, same with 1/4. Unless its wheel/axle nuts or similar I end up using a 1/2 ratchet more then an impact it seems.

I agree sockets are cheap enough to buy where you can have all the different types pretty reasonably if you shop around. Selecting the best tool for the task at hand may be overlooked at times, but everybody has a different way of approaching repairs.

 

[OHMS LAW]

I have both. For 1/2 I only have impact sockets. For 3/8 I have full length and mid in chrome and impact and shallows in chrome. Almost never use the shallows unless a space issue. THe impact are the first I grab. That’s what’s on my rail. In 1/4 I have full mid and shallow in chrome and swivel set in adv Matco.

I don’t even know where I was going with that. Lol.
Like Pokémon gotta catch em all

 

[WWheeler]

The only reason to use chrome sockets is a thinner wall. If I could go back (said many) I'd have only bought impact sockets.

Danaher made (Craftsman/Allen/Armstrong/ete..) impact sockets are notably thicker walled then others. The Sunex sockets in 1/4 & 3/8 are very close to the same thickness as a chrome socket. Very few times have I had to change sockets because the impact socket wouldnt fit. [...]

Hmmm, my USA and China made craftsman impacts both are a lot thinner walled than my Matco ADV impact sockets are and in turn they are a lot thinner than my old Horror Fright set. [...]

Just to show what I mean... (wish I still had a HF impact to show too because they are at least a mm fatter still - at least).....

 

[Wamsutta]

That socket on the right is practically flat on top; no chamfer. What the heck?

 

[WWheeler]

That socket on the right is practically flat on top; no chamfer. What the heck?

They are also rather soft. My craftsman set is more than twice as old and has been used a LOT yet still look basically new on the drive ends, but the Matco ADVs you can sure tell which ones have been used the most. The ADVs are about 2 years old now and are used sparingly but they'll almost all be junk in another 2 years at this rate. I picked up the set for pretty cheap (new under $100 for 10mm-36mm no skips) so no big deal, but I didn't expect them to be basically HF quality which is what they are, at best.

 

[plinker]

That socket on the right is practically flat on top; no chamfer. What the heck?

Matco specs a different chamfer angle on the ADV's, dont remember what it isoff hand.

The 1/2 drive Sunex sockets are a bit thicker walled then the 1/4 & 3/8 impact sockets. Didnt have many clearance issues with them though.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I like my chrome sockets. I believe they have their place. Like previously stated, there are times when clearance is an issue with impact sockets. I probably need to buy more deep impact sockets though as I currently only have the sizes I commonly use.

People on here joke about always buying more tools but a lot of times there is some truth behind it.

 

[plinker]

They are also rather soft. My craftsman set is more than twice as old and has been used a LOT yet still look basically new on the drive ends, but the Matco ADVs you can sure tell which ones have been used the most. The ADVs are about 2 years old now and are used sparingly but they'll almost all be junk in another 2 years at this rate. I picked up the set for pretty cheap (new under $100 for 10mm-36mm no skips) so no big deal, but I didn't expect them to be basically HF quality which is what they are, at best.

I wonder if the new more powerful impacts make some of the difference with how the sockets wear?

I had thought about this before but mainly with older chrome sockets on long breaker bars/ratchets (15" 3/8dr & 24" 1/2dr).

 

[Mr_B]

No a lot of the current cr-mo are soft as cheese, I will only buy crv taiwan japan style as decent material and design spec, had a mac set swap out and sold on as was junk on my impact.
I got impact sockets over 20yrs old and they take a right beating on modern air impacts no problems, swap out to current truck brands and it like having play dough on end of your impact .

 

[Mr_B]

I can see why mobile guy or anyone transporting tools may want minimise kit and why new guy might not want buy full 1/2" chrome but I sure wouldn't want be messing with impact sockets on everything 10hrs a day, simply wouldn't work as well and be a hindrance

 

[Mr_B]

That socket on the right is practically flat on top; no chamfer. What the heck?

It a design feature, see it on some aviation wrenches too (beta being an example and market the concept) it increases fastener contact area .
does make harder get on fastener but does have benefits .

 

[2ndGearRubber]

While I would agree the first tool purchase does not need to be 1/2 drive metric 12 point chrome; I don't think I (or anyone else who fixes cars for a living) could get away with just one or the other. People in my shop often ask why I have so many tools, why do I need them, I don't ever even use them, etc. 3/8 drive 12 point 27mm deep is not a usual size. When you need to do an obscured knock sensor or oil sender, an impact is not fitting, 1/2 drive is not fitting. So, you can move the obstacle (not billed in the labor time), or have the tools to work around it. I get the job done with little struggle, they curse for 3x the book labor or just give me the job to do.


Impact sockets are also heavier. When on a 2 foot long 1/2 drive ratchet turning over an engine with an obscured crank bolt, I love my 12 point shallows. Fishing it in there is easier, and the lighter socket is less likely to make a detent-only flex head go crooked.



I used to be on team impact only for 1/2 drive, but I honestly think having every style in every size is worth it if you make a living with them. Shop around, wait for deals, fill out those trays, and then some.

 

[wyattstihl]

Everyones thoughts on this are appreciated. I never thought impacts were thicker than chrome, guess I never really looked that hard.


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[Tallpilot]

While I would agree the first tool purchase does not need to be 1/2 drive metric 12 point chrome; I don't think I (or anyone else who fixes cars for a living) could get away with just one or the other. People in my shop often ask why I have so many tools, why do I need them, I don't ever even use them, etc. 3/8 drive 12 point 27mm deep is not a usual size. When you need to do an obscured knock sensor or oil sender, an impact is not fitting, 1/2 drive is not fitting. So, you can move the obstacle (not billed in the labor time), or have the tools to work around it. I get the job done with little struggle, they curse for 3x the book labor or just give me the job to do.


Impact sockets are also heavier. When on a 2 foot long 1/2 drive ratchet turning over an engine with an obscured crank bolt, I love my 12 point shallows. Fishing it in there is easier, and the lighter socket is less likely to make a detent-only flex head go crooked.



I used to be on team impact only for 1/2 drive, but I honestly think having every style in every size is worth it if you make a living with them. Shop around, wait for deals, fill out those trays, and then some.

Very well articulated. In summary, sockets of varying types are like most tools. Only after you have them and start using them can you really see how beneficial they are.

 

[PFSard]

Whats stopping an aspiring mechanic from just buying impact sockets, that will do everything, rather than having to buy chrome/impact? Is there some reason you should have both?

What kind of chunk of change and space would you save by eliminating the duplication? I have mostly chrome. Old school, non-professional.

 

[CR888]

Decent quality sockets have never been cheaper & more available than ever before. Why not arm yourself with options to give you the best chance of success with the fasteners your turning. Folks will go out & buy the latest Chinese plastic toy from Milwaukee costing several hundred without much hesitation, for the same money they could invest in quality socketry that will last a lifetime.

 

[jsaw]

As a full time mechanic, Impact sockets are all that I own and use, other than a few 1/4" drive chrome sockets that are in my tool box and are very seldom used.

 

[Mr_B]

^ don't know how really as I been full time on cars and light farm machinery for over 30yrs and no way I could do it with impacts only ...
Good chrome sockets are that cheap it not even worth trying unless needs must ...

 

[BDT/NWMN]

With normal use on an impact wrench; the drive end on impact sockets will wear and mushroom to a sloppier fit.. The impact sockets will be fatter and clunkier to use.

Two reasons I have chrome sockets for hand drive use are My dislike of fat, sloppy sockets.

 

[CR888]

An interesting socket is the Stahlwille HD impacts (heavy duty) they have a much thicker wall than their regular impact style. While a full set would mean trading in your car, a tool truck guy I know has a few in 14, 17, 19, 21mm that he'll sell me at clearance prices to try. Not the best fit for tight clearances, but that's not their purpose either.

 

[Mr Ratchet]

Ratchet heads have gotten thinner and more compact over the years. Seem counter productive to use a thicker/longer/heavier socket than needed all the time. I do it every now an then so I don't have to make a trip to get a chrome. I don't like the way they make the drive tool balance.

I had Chrome sockets way before I had my impact. I can see a starting tech going with all impacts at first and then add chrome later. For DIY use, I'd still start with chrome and then add impact.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

On those occasions my sockets have gone AWOL, I can find the chrome ones in less than half the time it takes to find the impacts.

 

[Mr_B]

^ very valid point that .
I actually make more effort buy tools visually easier see as saves loss and potential disaster plus a time saver . recent example was pry bars, I went craftman wilde over tekton as tekton black easier loose/overlook vs colored handle .

 

[AreYaSerious]

I would start with impacts and then get chrome but that's me. You can not go wrong having both.