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thinner torque wrench

jrsavoie

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I am in need of something thinner to torque upper ball joints on a 4x4 96 Suburban.

My 1/2" torque wrench is to thick to get in between the half axle and bet on the nut. I either need a thinner torque wrench or a 3/8 drive 1 1/16 socket.

Any other ideas? Or where to get things?

I'm was quoted $250 to change the ball joints, so I can invest in a tool to get the job done.

I can always remove the half shaft, but if I can avoid that, it would save a little work
 
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WhiffySpark

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Good n tight is all you need. Torquing then is pointless when you have to line up the cotter pin

You also have to cut the rivets off.
 

seanb02

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Agree with above, no need for a special torque wrench. Save your money and feel for tight, then just a hair tighter to where you can line up the castle nut with the hole in the tapered stud. Not a critical thing to be exact torque, there is probably a 20 lb/ft or so range in the manufacturers specs.
 

Tallpilot

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jalind

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There are torque wrench lateral extensions that allow a crow's foot to get into places where the torque wrench head is too large. Crow's feet aren't just open end. They come in flare nut and 12-point box as well, although those aren't as common. Be very well aware though that there are specific methods for either
  • recalculating the torque setting based on having changed the effective length of the wrench
  • using the lateral extension carefully at 90 degree right angle to the torque wrench handle; if it's anything but right angles to the handle, the setting or reading on the wrench will be different from the actual torque being applied
YouTube has a number of videos demonstrating how to use torque wrench lateral extensions. Remember that torque a wrench's setting or reading (dial or beam type) will change if you are exerting torquing force on the wrench from anywhere but the middle of the handle. I've seen this demonstrated on torque wrench calibration machines.

Last time I did ball joints I torqued them to spec and then turned the castellated nut to the next alignment of an opening on it with the cotter pin hole, which is the proper procedure with every castellated nut I've torqued down. There's are mechanical engineering design reasons for torque specs directly related to fastener reliability, durability and robustness, and keeping the fastened stuff fastened together in use. The "turn it until you hear a crack and back off 1/8 to 1/4 turn" garage gorilla torque method invites fastener failure later.

John
 
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Snakebyt

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no need to torque, if it is the style without the cotter pin, and it makes you nervous, just crawl under and recheck after a couple days driving
 

potato

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torque adaptors
FRDH301_v2.jpg
 

jalind

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no need to torque, if it is the style without the cotter pin, and it makes you nervous, just crawl under and recheck after a couple days driving

This might keep it from coming apart from being under torqued (blue Locktite also works), and vibrating loose would be a catastrophic failure, just as fastener thread failure later from being over torqued would also be catastrophic. It's not just catastrophic failure prevention, it's also about getting it apart at some point in the future. Over torquing may survive even harsh or extreme use without fastener failure, but it also deforms threads, making removal later extremely difficult at best, even without rust or other corrosion and Crudmium deposition making disassembly more difficult.

I've personally had to deal with fasteners that were over torqued to the point of thread deformation severely locking the fastener together. No amount of penetrating oil can fix this and other harsh methods such as heating it with a torch don't work very well, if at all. It's extremely frustrating. Just dealt with this on some rear caliper slide bolts that were supposed to be torqued to 32 ft-lb. A brand certified garage gorilla at a new car dealership significantly over torqued them with the "good-n-tite" torque wrench. They were the last ones to touch the rear brakes. When I finally got one of them partially out before the bolt snapped I was able to look at it under magnification. No significant corrosion, but definite evidence of thread deformation unrelated to the removal effort. If the dude had been present I'd have probably gone after him with the breaker bar I'd been using. Not that consequential for the job at hand as I was replacing the calipers, brackets and the bracket bolts. Removed the bracket bolts and got the caliper completely off still attached to the bracket. Even so, it's much easier if the caliper comes off before removing the bracket. Not the first instance of this kind of over torquing I've seen or experienced.

John
 

Snakebyt

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This might keep it from coming apart from being under torqued (blue Locktite also works), and vibrating loose would be a catastrophic failure, just as fastener thread failure later from being over torqued would also be catastrophic. It's not just catastrophic failure prevention, it's also about getting it apart at some point in the future. Over torquing may survive even harsh or extreme use without fastener failure, but it also deforms threads, making removal later extremely difficult at best, even without rust or other corrosion and Crudmium deposition making disassembly more difficult.

I've personally had to deal with fasteners that were over torqued to the point of thread deformation severely locking the fastener together. No amount of penetrating oil can fix this and other harsh methods such as heating it with a torch don't work very well, if at all. It's extremely frustrating. Just dealt with this on some rear caliper slide bolts that were supposed to be torqued to 32 ft-lb. A brand certified garage gorilla at a new car dealership significantly over torqued them with the "good-n-tite" torque wrench. They were the last ones to touch the rear brakes. When I finally got one of them partially out before the bolt snapped I was able to look at it under magnification. No significant corrosion, but definite evidence of thread deformation unrelated to the removal effort. If the dude had been present I'd have probably gone after him with the breaker bar I'd been using. Not that consequential for the job at hand as I was replacing the calipers, brackets and the bracket bolts. Removed the bracket bolts and got the caliper completely off still attached to the bracket. Even so, it's much easier if the caliper comes off before removing the bracket. Not the first instance of this kind of over torquing I've seen or experienced.

John

Really good information, I have dealt with situations like that before, I work at a toyota dealer, we use 24" breaker bars or 24" ratchet all the time to get off oil filter housings
 
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jrsavoie

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torque adaptors
FRDH301_v2.jpg

Thanks, I was looking for one of those in line wrench style.

I went to Lowes and bought a piece of 1/2" OD square tubing that was 3/8" ID and made a reducing bushing.

Does anybody else need one the tube was 3' long and the bushing used up about 5/8" of it

I have absolutely no feel for tight.I used to break off grade 8, 3/8 -16 lawson bolts without noticing they were tight already.

I have also had bad results of others doing the German work on my vehicles. Sometimes to tight. Sometimes to lose. Both with bad results

I have seen knuckles ruined by both over tightening and under tightening.

Do you guys have any words of wisdom on installing the links? The torque spec is only 13 ft lbs. I would think the lock nut would just about have that covered.

I've just done them by eye. When it looks like the bushings start to squish, I quit

I didn't get much for results searching 1-1/16 torque adapter or even just torque adapter on Ebay
https://store.snapon.com/Standard-i...daptor-1-1-16-12-Point-1-2-drive-P769883.aspx
 
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WhiffySpark

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Wasting your time trying to torque them. Half the time you can’t even turn them by hand because the whole stud spins. Then you get to **** around trying to keep it from spinning without tearing the boot or messing anything else up.

I spray the stud with line and hit it with the impact. Don’t stop until it’s snugged down.

I’ve persinally never seen a torque related problem on running gear
 
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Wamsutta

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I'm confused. What should I do with the 18 mm wrench?

That's what I use to tighten the castle nut on the ball joints of my GM front wheel drive car. Being that there's no room to slip a box end over the castle nut with the CV axle housing in such close proximity, I use the open end. I figured since your Suburban is a 4x4 with front CV axles, you might be in the same situation.
 

BDT/NWMN

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To settle any doubts as to whether You are torquing the ball joints properly; The word "torque", as We are using it, means to tighten.... Now, do You really believe a TORQUE INDICATING WRENCH is needed to tighten that castle nut to a specified torque value, and yet then need to tighten it more to line up the cotter pin hole?

If You question Your own strength, use the adapter that was mentioned with a torque wrench to tighten the nut..but..like others have mentioned; that nut will yet have to be tightened a bit more to line up the cotter pin hole.
 

Jim c

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Last year at this time I put new upper and lower ball joints in my 97 Chevy 4x4 ( also did new half shafts, new wheel bearings, rotors, calipers and pads, and tie rods and sway bar bushings too) complete rebuild of that front end. I gotta warn you ahead of time, that particular model can be a VERY big job: all depends on what you are trying to do and how rusty everything is. You are going to need quite a large torque wrench and a 36 mm axle nut socket to tighten your axle nut to 165 lb ft, but that is for when you are all done with the job. I do not know why you would want to replace the upper ball joints alone, because they are not carrying the vehicle load and usually do not wear out. The bottom ones carry the load and fail much quicker. To do that job, you had better eat your Wheatley’s, because it is a WHOPPER. Yes, you have to remove the half shafts, and that is a cake walk. It begins to get difficult when you attempt to remove the rotor: the design of those model years up unti 2001 or 03 is pretty bad; lots of rust under there. There are four 15 mm bolts that hold the hub bearing to the spindle; if you can remove those then you are in good shape. If not, don’t strip them, but you will have to literally pry the rotor off of the vehicle using two pry bars, many hours of labor and pretty dangerous to both you and the fenders. You will have to pry so long and hard that you separate the sealed hub bearing assembly pulling it in half to get the rotor off. Then you will have access to the bearing assembly so that you can use an oxy acetylene torch to heat the bearing around the bolts so you can remove them. Then you have to get the bearing assembly out of the spindle, it will be rusted in and you will have to use a hammer and chisel, but be careful not to damage spindle. Then unbolt ball joints upper and lower and use ball joint separator picks fork and big hammer to separate upper ball then repeat for lower ball and spindle will drop out of vehicle. Then and only then can you begin to replace those ball joints. And you have to remove the upper ball joints or the entire control arm just so that you have room for your ball joint press to work on the lower ball joints. When you are done pressing in new lower ball joints then you can BOLT in your new upper joints and slap everything back together. It will go back together like gravy. Oh, removing the upper ball joints requires chiseling off the rivet heads and air chiseling for countless hours to get that ball joint assembly out of that upper control arm. I mean when you get done, your wrists are going to be numb and you are going to need a very powerful air chisel, like an ingersoll rand maximum power model ( that is what I used) . If I had to do it again, I would probably purchase new complete upper control arms with all joints already installed. Pricier, but money well spent, I would think. Time has blurred my memory, but I still have those old uppers in the garage, just so that I can look at them and remember thatstruggle. Oh, there are many internet articles on various attempts at removal, an, no, you absolutely cannot drive those rivers out with an air chisel; you have to chisel the rivet plate assembly up and out of the control arm. I used to do just this type of work every day in an auto shop when I was younger, so I can say with a good background of both work experience and knowledge that those models of Chevy 4x4 trucks are a job for the pros. Start out with something easy, like anything with a regular bearing set and more normal ball joint assembly. If you take it on yourself, you are probably going to have to pay to have it towed, embarrassingly, to a shop, with the rotors half pulled off, and they are going to eat you alive on the price to service those parts. I have nearly every tool on earth to service such vehicles and it took me forever and nearly brought me to tears on SEVERAL occasions. But I have come to enjoy doing such miserable projects. Still it was in my garage for over a week to get it done. On the internet, it is described readily as wheel bearing hub assembly removal from hell. I would add to that, upper ball joint assembly removal from hell. So, unless you are heck bent and determined like me, I would recommend selling that vehicle and getting one that is economical to service. Yes, REALLY. I think I spent $1700.00 on parts doing it myself. Shops routinely charge $1500.00 per side just to replace a wheel bearing assembly. I have no idea how much the whole job that I did would have cost if I had a shop do it. Don’t want to go go there, ever.
 

Tonyuk

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We use a special torque wrench that can accept different inserts, im sure its called Vag332 or something like that.

I find my regular norbar wrench can work in tighter areas with a low profile 1/2" socket.

I wouldn't worry too much however.
 
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jrsavoie

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North east Illinois
Last year at this time I put new upper and lower ball joints in my 97 Chevy 4x4 ( also did new half shafts, new wheel bearings, rotors, calipers and pads, and tie rods and sway bar bushings too) complete rebuild of that front end. I gotta warn you ahead of time, that particular model can be a VERY big job: all depends on what you are trying to do and how rusty everything is. You are going to need quite a large torque wrench and a 36 mm axle nut socket to tighten your axle nut to 165 lb ft, but that is for when you are all done with the job. I do not know why you would want to replace the upper ball joints alone, because they are not carrying the vehicle load and usually do not wear out. The bottom ones carry the load and fail much quicker. To do that job, you had better eat your Wheatley’s, because it is a WHOPPER. Yes, you have to remove the half shafts, and that is a cake walk. It begins to get difficult when you attempt to remove the rotor: the design of those model years up unti 2001 or 03 is pretty bad; lots of rust under there. There are four 15 mm bolts that hold the hub bearing to the spindle; if you can remove those then you are in good shape. If not, don’t strip them, but you will have to literally pry the rotor off of the vehicle using two pry bars, many hours of labor and pretty dangerous to both you and the fenders. You will have to pry so long and hard that you separate the sealed hub bearing assembly pulling it in half to get the rotor off. Then you will have access to the bearing assembly so that you can use an oxy acetylene torch to heat the bearing around the bolts so you can remove them. Then you have to get the bearing assembly out of the spindle, it will be rusted in and you will have to use a hammer and chisel, but be careful not to damage spindle. Then unbolt ball joints upper and lower and use ball joint separator picks fork and big hammer to separate upper ball then repeat for lower ball and spindle will drop out of vehicle. Then and only then can you begin to replace those ball joints. And you have to remove the upper ball joints or the entire control arm just so that you have room for your ball joint press to work on the lower ball joints. When you are done pressing in new lower ball joints then you can BOLT in your new upper joints and slap everything back together. It will go back together like gravy. Oh, removing the upper ball joints requires chiseling off the rivet heads and air chiseling for countless hours to get that ball joint assembly out of that upper control arm. I mean when you get done, your wrists are going to be numb and you are going to need a very powerful air chisel, like an ingersoll rand maximum power model ( that is what I used) . If I had to do it again, I would probably purchase new complete upper control arms with all joints already installed. Pricier, but money well spent, I would think. Time has blurred my memory, but I still have those old uppers in the garage, just so that I can look at them and remember thatstruggle. Oh, there are many internet articles on various attempts at removal, an, no, you absolutely cannot drive those rivers out with an air chisel; you have to chisel the rivet plate assembly up and out of the control arm. I used to do just this type of work every day in an auto shop when I was younger, so I can say with a good background of both work experience and knowledge that those models of Chevy 4x4 trucks are a job for the pros. Start out with something easy, like anything with a regular bearing set and more normal ball joint assembly. If you take it on yourself, you are probably going to have to pay to have it towed, embarrassingly, to a shop, with the rotors half pulled off, and they are going to eat you alive on the price to service those parts. I have nearly every tool on earth to service such vehicles and it took me forever and nearly brought me to tears on SEVERAL occasions. But I have come to enjoy doing such miserable projects. Still it was in my garage for over a week to get it done. On the internet, it is described readily as wheel bearing hub assembly removal from hell. I would add to that, upper ball joint assembly removal from hell. So, unless you are heck bent and determined like me, I would recommend selling that vehicle and getting one that is economical to service. Yes, REALLY. I think I spent $1700.00 on parts doing it myself. Shops routinely charge $1500.00 per side just to replace a wheel bearing assembly. I have no idea how much the whole job that I did would have cost if I had a shop do it. Don’t want to go go there, ever.

This Suburban has at least 350,000 miles - 6.5 diesel

The rest of the front end has been gone through.

The correct torque spec for the front bearings I used was 180 ft lbs. Do not use an impact on the spindle nuts. You can damage the half shaft.

If re-using the spindle nut - use removable Loctite

The upper control arm bushings were replaced once - in hindsight I should have got the new upper control arms with the ball joint and bushing - the bushings don't look bad, but I saw a little piece of rubber hanging off one.

I think I chiseled one set of rivets off. I usually drill the heads with a 5/32 and then 1/4 or 5/16. The I use a flapper and thin cut wheel. Have to be careful to not touch the control arm. I have had good luck popping the rivets out with a punch once the heads are gone

For the lower - pressed in ball joints, I got the big Snap ON press. Made all the difference in the world

Never seize everything.

When changing front wheel bearings - if you get the bolts to back out a ways. Whack the bolt heads to remove the bearing. Or use an air chisel with the round point. I save old bolts just for doing this.

I have a friend that just removes the whole steering knuckle. If you have a stuck bearing bolt, you can drill the head off and then punch the bearing out of the knuckle

Always have a set of new bolts to install when working on a GMT400 front wheel bearing.

Only use the best quality of parts you can get. I use ACDelco Professional - I fail to understand their reasoning for having 2 different qualities of parts. Or MOOG
There was another brand that was recently recommended to me, but I have not tried it yet.

I have pulled a bearing apart before. Daughter ran the Suburban until the backs of the brake pads were gone and she was stopping with the caliper. Heated stuff up big time.

I am not as pro active in changing parts as I used to be. Seems like new parts are as likely to fail as an old part that is still working.

I've seen 2 knuckle ruined by improper installation.

One the upper was sucked down into the knuckle - either over torqued or the hole was wobbled out before.

The other the hole was wobbled out - not sure if it was wobbled out before the installation or if it was not torqued properly.

We have 4 GMT 400 6.5's I do not remember having to change many half shafts in the 2 million miles or so we have put on them

For front bearings I have mostly used ACDelco - they come with rotors installed. Makes things go a little faster.
 
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jrsavoie

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Wasting your time trying to torque them. Half the time you can’t even turn them by hand because the whole stud spins. Then you get to **** around trying to keep it from spinning without tearing the boot or messing anything else up.

I spray the stud with line and hit it with the impact. Don’t stop until it’s snugged down.

I’ve persinally never seen a torque related problem on running gear

What brand of ball joint do you use? I've never had one spin yet.

The reason I had an issue this time, is that I've never done just uppers and had to work around the half axle.
 

WhiffySpark

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What brand of ball joint do you use? I've never had one spin yet.

The reason I had an issue this time, is that I've never done just uppers and had to work around the half axle.

Everything from white box at part store to problem solvers and oem
 

Jim c

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Jrsavoie... sounds like you are similiar to me in your experience and determination. Rock on brother! Those are some very long lasting vehicles, and since you have had yours long enough to actually wear it the upper ball joints, you really are getting your money’s worth ourpt of youepr vehicles. Mine is a 97 k 3500 dually with 6.5 td . Man, does it ever drive better after replacing all of those parts. I read online that timken bearings are still USA made and btw rock auto really does have some great prices. Be careful on pricing because I have seen the same bearings selling for $300 at local auto parts store while they are $160 at rock auto! Glad someone shared that with me prior to my purchase. Also they have an ac Delco super heavy duty rotor towing option with grooves for extra cooling. I ordered those because I tend to tow with a dually flatbed things like tractors etc.. I like the method of dropping the entire knuckle. Separating Tahoe’s bearings is really hard and can be really dangerous on the final pull when the rotor comes free. I am wondering how much a knuckle would cost to buy a new one and just toss the old knuckle bearing and rotor as an assembly? Just seems like a tremendous waste, but either way it costs: either you get worked like a dog, or you pay big for the extra parts just so that you can expedite things.
 
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jrsavoie

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Jrsavoie... sounds like you are similiar to me in your experience and determination. Rock on brother! Those are some very long lasting vehicles, and since you have had yours long enough to actually wear it the upper ball joints, you really are getting your money’s worth ourpt of youepr vehicles. Mine is a 97 k 3500 dually with 6.5 td . Man, does it ever drive better after replacing all of those parts. I read online that timken bearings are still USA made and btw rock auto really does have some great prices. Be careful on pricing because I have seen the same bearings selling for $300 at local auto parts store while they are $160 at rock auto! Glad someone shared that with me prior to my purchase. Also they have an ac Delco super heavy duty rotor towing option with grooves for extra cooling. I ordered those because I tend to tow with a dually flatbed things like tractors etc.. I like the method of dropping the entire knuckle. Separating Tahoe’s bearings is really hard and can be really dangerous on the final pull when the rotor comes free. I am wondering how much a knuckle would cost to buy a new one and just toss the old knuckle bearing and rotor as an assembly? Just seems like a tremendous waste, but either way it costs: either you get worked like a dog, or you pay big for the extra parts just so that you can expedite things.

If you are going to do a knuckle swap. Do the GMT800 upgrade. You'll be able to pull the rotor off without pulling the bearing and pounding studs.

You can pound the studs without removing the bearing, but that seems more of a PIA to me.

There is some good info on the knuckle swap at thetruckstop.us

I like to do it with the knuckle on. That way I have something to pull against with out clamping it up if I need a breaker bar for the 15 mm headed bolts.

I always need a breaker bar for those bolts.

I saw him chase a knuckle around because the impact wasn't doing it and he couldn't hold the knuckle.
 
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Jim c

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Appreciate the info on the knuckle swap sounds like that gmt800 is a really good improvement. Hopefully I won’t have to do much with my front end for a good while now.
 

WhiffySpark

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Most of the time, but not always. When my daughter burnt them up, they were stuck big time

I had one in 10 year.that wouldn't come off in 30 seconds.

And out of all things it was a 2015 taurus with zero rust. I broke a porta power trying to get it to budge lol
 

yhprum

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You can also use different thickness washers under the nut to line up the castellations at the proper torque if you are worried about that.
 
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