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This day in age... tools.

maxwage

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
85
Location
South Central, Indiana
I am a contractor. Got in the trades at 17. I love tools.

My father is an engineer. Taught my how to do mechanical work at a young age.

I love tools. I love my country.

China/Taiwan (soon to be another country) is the Japan of decades earlier. In my profession, Japanese tools are synonymous with quality.

I have all varieties, brands, tools for purposes etc.

Many of the tools I use daily are not US or European made. Tools you don't find at the big box (Festool. Hilti etc)

It is 2015. Quality and ingenuity is not only limited to a handful of countries and cultures.

Is it nostalgia for the USA made stuff or just the 'Murica™ hillbilly mentality?!?! Obviously I guess. But I've had some recent American made stuff that is utter ****.

This forum is more average Joe, wrench turning enthusiasts ( I'm an average Joe but a builder) it seems, but why so **** when I see even the high end grease monkey tools are Asian made often?

And yes, I love vintage tools and any American made tool is a selling point.

But it seems many on here are ridiculous on COO. This isn't 1960, 70, 80. Manufacturing tech is global.

Lots of hypocrisy.

End rant.

Discuss.
 
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boostedgt

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Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
983
Location
the D
i like vintage american tools, i like modern quality import brands. i do not like american brands moving production overseas(although epa regs probably contribute)
 

Kamanhart

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
138
Location
Wausau Wisconsin
The hypocrisy comes with the idea that every washing machine, dryer, blender, dish washer, phone, computer etc that most people here use every day is imported and no one thinks twice about it. On top of that I would put solid money that the fair majority of every cnc or piece of new machinery in most of these USA factories came from over seas. But we dont give that a thought either, mostly because we realize that these imports are quality. I think the point OP is angry about is why can we turn our heads to that but then bash a QUALITY import tool. Yes there is **** imports but at the same time there's **** domestic as well. When it comes to terms of a quality tool is COO that worth getting bent outa shape about
 

NitroSun

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
150
Location
Tierra Verde, Fl
Import vs. American
Tool truck vs. Harbor Freight
Blah blah

Its been discussed in a thousand threads already. It's a free country, if you came by your money honestly, spend it however you please.
 

1982fxr

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
10,012
Location
Phoenix
I'm from Wisconsin and many US tools are made there and in neighboring states. I like to support the neighbors. OOps there I go being a hypocrite again.

Next time someone who works in American manufacturing wants some trade work done tell them they are a hypocrite and you can't take their money.
 

thatonedude

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
58
Location
kcmo
Import vs. American
Tool truck vs. Harbor Freight
Blah blah

Its been discussed in a thousand threads already. It's a free country, if you came by your money honestly, spend it however you please.

Don't forget jap vs muscle:lol_hitti
 

bushmechanic

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
4,820
The hypocrisy comes with the idea that every washing machine, dryer, blender, dish washer, phone, computer etc that most people here use every day is imported and no one thinks twice about it. On top of that I would put solid money that the fair majority of every cnc or piece of new machinery in most of these USA factories came from over seas. But we dont give that a thought either, mostly because we realize that these imports are quality. I think the point OP is angry about is why can we turn our heads to that but then bash a QUALITY import tool. Yes there is **** imports but at the same time there's **** domestic as well. When it comes to terms of a quality tool is COO that worth getting bent outa shape about

I'm very careful about what I buy.

Nearly all of my clothing is either made in the USA or Europe. It's easy to accomplish, as most such manufacturers stand behind their products with lengthy and immediately responsive warranties. You'll pay a bit more, but it'll last a lifetime.

Even my socks are made here.

My major appliances are made in the USA, and if you poke about inside them you'll find many US and Japan-made components.

My television, microwave, and most of my A/V equipment is made in Japan, as is my electric razor and even my toothbrush. My combs are, as well.

I'm particular about computers, as well. The components in my machines are made of USA, German, Japanese, and Taiwanese parts; down to the semiconductors and chokes.

As I've noted before, Taiwan isn't China.

This keyboard was designed with pride by a company in Taiwan, and manufactured in-house with German, Taiwanese, and Japanese components.

Pretty much all of my furniture was made here in the USA, but that's not uncommon.

My cars were made in England, and if you dig around in there, every last one of the bits was cranked out of Japan, the USA, and in England or Germany. My tires are all made in Germany, and my brakes, in their entirety, are made in England from European-sourced materials.

The hardware I use for them comes from the USA and Germany, and that includes every factory nut and bolt, as well.

My phones come from Japan and Finland; and my power tools in Germany and Japan. Flashlights and firearms come from the USA and Austria, and so do all of their accessories.

The light bulbs in here come mostly from Korea and the USA. A few bits in there are from China, but we're talking tiny little pieces that nobody else can be bothered to make anymore.

Most everything else is the same way, aside from things that are simply not made in such places anymore, or things that never were to begin with.

I don't mind stuff being made overseas, as long as it's made with pride in nations with a reputation for quality craftsmanship and fair (for their region) working conditions.

Some things belong in the US. This nation cranks out the best common hand tools on the planet, until you get into certain areas such as pliers and trick ratcheting wrenches/screwdrivers.

Some things belong in Taiwan. Their manufacturing standards are tight as hell, and if you've got a choice between a Taiwanese sheet metal assembly or one made anywhere else; go Taiwan.

This goes for many different products and many different areas.

I want to note again that Taiwan isn't China. They may be called the Republic of China, but it's a whole different ball of wax. They've been fighting over who gets to be China for ages, now.

The Republic of China lost to the People's Republic of China long ago, but they've been at each others' throats ever since.

Hell, China isn't even China. It's made of conveniently associated independent city-states, administrative regions and territories, many of which were run or administered by the British damned near up to this new millennium. Not all of it is "Red China" (yeah, that's still a thing), and not all of it *****.

When you really dissect the world and learn about it, you'll find that many of the interconnected bits are perfectly fine.

I'm guilty of no hypocrisy so far as country of origin goes. If something is designed in a nation, it ought to be made there. If we can do a better job of making it somewhere else by leveraging their local production expertise, it ought to be made there.

New American products, however, and those we have been proudly producing for decades, have no business moving overseas, but the market demands it.

Every time you cheap out; every time you go for quantity over quality, you've just pushed one more product out of our borders, or those of another nation that was happily doing a good job.

Remember; houses used to have only a single television, a single axe, a single car, one set of dishes, a cup a piece for each member of the household, and a single hammer. They averaged 800 square feet. Stuff was expensive; the same as top dollar items are today, but it was all made where it was supposed to be made.

Now people want everything, but they can't afford it, so it ends up being made cheaply somewhere else.

Consumers do this to themselves.

Enough tools to diagnose, repair, or even pull apart my entire Land Rover will fit in a Pelican 1510 (it's tight as hell, though) with the breaker bars and torque wrench strapped to the outside, and the computer in it's own bag.

It comes down to paring what you need down to the essentials, and making sure you buy quality products. After that you can play with what you have left over.

Now, a professional mechanic will need more, and certainly a number of specialist and manufacturer-specific tools, but he doesn't have to own everything.

We used to have entry-level American tools that would serve a home mechanic for decades, or a professional long enough to give him time to build up a more precision or vehicle-specific set.

The perceived need to own too much, however, has pushed most of that stuff right out of the market.
 
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92integra

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Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
857
What are y'all even talking about everyone knows German tools, cars, and engineering surpass all.
 

92integra

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Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
857
Bush mech. I got some English papers that need finished, would you mind?
 
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bushmechanic

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Mar 17, 2014
Messages
4,820
Likely not before several people practically lose the will to live trying to read it through to completion. :D I managed about a third of the way through. :D

LOL

But... You didn't get to the part where I explain that China isn't China!:lol:

Hey, at least I cut out the East India Company bit...
 

bushmechanic

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
4,820
Don't feed the troll. really, don't feed them.

It's not all about trolling all the time. People talk about things like this because it's fun and slightly competitive.

Proper discussions related to tasks or projects are great, but they aren't necessarily fun.

I find this stuff entertaining from a historical perspective, as so much of it hearkens to the great colonial eras of Europe, as well as Asian upheavals in the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries, and even changing tastes of consumers who don't watch where they step.

I know very few people read my posts. It doesn't bother me. I write them because I enjoy doing so, for some crazy reason.
 

Gmonkee

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,854
BushMech, you're fine. Verbose to a fault but still trying to make vallid points.
These threads are started by banned guys on troll accts that toss a mess onto the board designed to piss somebody off then lay low watching and laughing at all the ones he caught.
And never bother to respond to the thread again. Because its NOT a valid topic, its a troll line with stinkbait.

Please don't feed the trolls. I can even guess who this troll is, he used a trademark phrase.
 

zkling

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
16,939
Something about all French speaking people being rude business men. :dunno:

Would that be one of American manufacture or an import? :D

It was assembled with pride in the USA from globally sourced materials. :lol_hitti


OP, bushmechanic, IMHO gave you a very good rundown.
 
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Mechanical Noise

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
2,635
Location
Southeast of O'Hare
I really wanted to write a Mega Post on this topic, then I realized Monty Python's Eric Idle said it all, 35 years ago:

The world today seems absolutely crackers,
With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.
There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.
It's depressing and it's senseless, and that's why...
I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.
You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They come from a long way overseas,
But they're cute and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude.
Think of the many things they've done to impress.
There's Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.

So I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucious taught.
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're wise and they're witty, and they're ready to please.

All together.

[verse in Chinese]
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Ni hao ma; ni hao ma; ni hao ma; zaijien! (How are you; how are you; how are you; goodbye!)

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
Their food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine, and lychees.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees...
 

OutsideMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
986
Location
Norfolk, VA
1333307371402509_animate.gif
 

Dajn

Banned
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
278
The united states needs a new cold war to energize this country. People are getting lazy. We put a man on the moon for Christ's sake. The united states needs a challenge. This country has always rose to the occasion. We need a new cold war. Then we will have new innovation.
 
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RivennHewn

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
10,376
Location
PNW
I took a developmental psychology class in college.

I remember one section regarding an adolescent's need to learn to take a stand.

That's why the whole Coke Vs. Pepsi, Bud Lites Taste great Vs. Less filling, Dodge Vs. Chevy (for the number 2 position) and the like have become part of society.

Kids learning to be adults.

Add it to the list.
 

Dajn

Banned
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
278
I don't think anyone cares about your psychology course. I imagine you think you are a very smart person. Pat yourself on the back.
 
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