This day in age... tools.

[Hojin101]

I like turtles..

me too!!!!

 

[DieselSaves]

I took a developmental psychology class in college.

I remember one section regarding an adolescent's need to learn to take a stand.

That's why the whole Coke Vs. Pepsi, Bud Lites Taste great Vs. Less filling, Dodge Vs. Chevy (for the number 2 position) and the like have become part of society.

Kids learning to be adults.

Add it to the list.

So what happens when the kids don't learn to be adults, and carry these kind of false conflicts into the rest of their life as part of their world view? What happens when knee jerk reactions based on this juvenile mindset is the standard response? How will this play out in an instant, global, anonymous forum? Will there be snacks?

 

[AlwaysFixingSomething]

The hypocrisy comes with the idea that every washing machine, dryer, blender, dish washer, phone, computer etc that most people here use every day is imported and no one thinks twice about it. On top of that I would put solid money that the fair majority of every cnc or piece of new machinery in most of these USA factories came from over seas. But we dont give that a thought either, mostly because we realize that these imports are quality. I think the point OP is angry about is why can we turn our heads to that but then bash a QUALITY import tool. Yes there is **** imports but at the same time there's **** domestic as well. When it comes to terms of a quality tool is COO that worth getting bent outa shape about

I care about things that are important that need to last I want to be made here in the USA. I could care less if a plastic cup or aluminum foil or some other throw away item is imported. Stuff i need to rely on needs to be made in the USA.

 

[1950mercury]

This whole thread is a complete waist...useless why do so many even bother to participate in such ****

 

[Malczewski]

This whole thread is a complete waist...useless why do so many even bother to participate in such ****

As is no child left behind.^^^^^^^^
All I ask for is a fair shake for my pennies.
I've got friends all over this globe. Some have killer tools I've zero familiarity with.
If it's well made and works / fairly priced/Buy it.
I concur we Americans are likely the best.Not blind patriotism but just obsessed with extreme quality and perfection.........until lately..... with the advent of The Coupon People

 

[jcfields]

.

 

[Malczewski]

"Global manufacturing," "global materials, "global economy"...it's all code for "China." Countries whose manufacturing output people actually respect—like Germany, Switzerland, France, Korea, Japan, and yes, the United States—proudly put their name on their products. Even Harbor Freight won't stamp "China" on their wrenches, and God knows their customers don't care.

Maybe China will be in that company some day. Today, they're the place non-Chinese companies make stuff when they don't want to pay their workers very much.

I'd have to disagree with that. Many items so-called" global" in USA production include gadgetry and or metals from countries involved with the much loathed" free trade" agreement(s).
One good example are the electronic control systems in the much praised Hypertherm family of plasma cutters(the best that exist). Much of this is made in Costa Rica. So are the chipsets in your"Intel" based computers.
The copper contacts in your D-sqare breaker are likely Chilean.
It is what it is.
Go have a cup of Honduran coffee. Its almost sunup.

 

[Malczewski]

This is probably one of the bertter reality checks I've found.......ironically on this forum..years back(I think)

 

[Dajn]

This is probably one of the bertter reality checks I've found.......ironically on this forum..years back(I think)

Lol. Just like the slaves built the united states. No one else had anything to do with it. The slaves won the war of independence. The slaves won the civil war. The slaves won world war 2 while we are at it.

 

[Dajn]

Get a grip buddy.

 

[softailgarage]

Lol. Just like the slaves built the united states. No one else had anything to do with it. The slaves won the war of independence. The slaves won the civil war. The slaves won world war 2 while we are at it.

Hmmm, I see the trolls are out in force tonight.

Me? Hell, I like turtles too...especially American ones, they're the bestest.

 

[Fretters]

Lol. Just like the slaves built the united states. No one else had anything to do with it. The slaves won the war of independence. The slaves won the civil war. The slaves won world war 2 while we are at it.

Get a grip buddy.

With those two posts being straight after each other, are you referring to yourself in the latter post or someone else? Referring to yourself would make sense, but that opens up a whole thing regarding multiple personalities, third person references etc.

 

[GTO]

The search function is your friend..

 

[Fretters]

This whole thread is a complete waist...useless why do so many even bother to participate in such ****

Simply because it's full of **** from the start so anything goes. There's no chance of being accused of sidetracking a thread like this, and it's a prime opportunity for light-hearted nonsense.

 

[maxwage]

I dunno, but the saying is this day and age

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/in-this-day-and-age

Thank you for the grammar lesson sir. Few too many beers.

 

[maxwage]

"high end grease monkey tools" - looks like you have a pretty high opinion of auto techs too.

I'm just a dumb carpenter. Didn't mean as a derogation. My BIL is a 23 yo certified diesel tech. I have a lot of respect for him and appreciate younger guys going into the trades etc... I encourage younger people who Want to go into a skilled trade.

 

[maxwage]

Someone's fishing...

No trolling here. Said BIL is gonna get me my first Snap On tools, probably some ratchets. I can't wait.

I use to hate doing car maintenance work, only out of necessity to save $. Now I enjoy it and want to use some of the finer tools mechanics and enthusiasts cherish.

 

[McFarmer]

I'm strictly ABC, anywhere but China.

We can't keep sending them this much money.

 

[ZRH`]

There are a million articles about Chinese "quality fade", apparently it's just part of their culture.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/07/26/china-manufacturing-quality-ent-manage-cx_kw_0726whartonchina.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/6962703/Why-Made-in-China-is-a-mark-of-shame.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/business/worldbusiness/14heparin.html?_r=0

There are articles going back at least 130 years starting with the importation of silk from China. They focus on short term profits, sell as much as they can before it catches up with them and then reincorporate or just leave the market.

 

[Fretters]

There are a million articles about Chinese "quality fade", apparently it's just part of their culture.

It's bunkum. That's like saying that everything produced in America is four times larger than it needs to be. You have what most countries class as an apparent obsession with excessive size, but we all know full well it's not the absolute over there. You can't tar one country with a brush and not expect it in return. There are stereo-typical examples and then there are every day realities in any country.

 

[ZRH`]

It's bunkum. That's like saying that everything produced in America is four times larger than it needs to be. You have what most countries class as an apparent obsession with excessive size, but we all know full well it's not the absolute over there. You can't tar one country with a brush and not expect it in return. There are stereo-typical examples and then there are every day realities in any country.

Where did I say everything in the US was better? You are putting words in my mouth. Im posting about a very specific well documented part of Chinese business practice.

Scholarly (peer reviewed) sources:
Managing product safety of imported Chinese goods
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0007681309001220
Managing “quality failure” in China: lessons from the dairy industry case
http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/10.1108/17468800910968391
Doing Business in China: A Risk Analysis
http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/jekem/vol1/iss1/7/

Even older case studies:
Why Japan, Not China, Was the First to Develop in East Asia: Lessons from Sericulture, 1850–1937
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.10...2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21105308868311

An entire book on the topic:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470405589/?tag=atomicindus08-20

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

 

[Fretters]

Where did I say everything in the US was better? You are putting words in my mouth. Im posting about a very specific well documented part of Chinese business practice.

I never said you'd said that. I'm merely saying that whatever 'facts' you see regarding China only apply to a portion of the country and its industry, and that stance would be akin to me saying that America as a whole is obsessed with producing unnecessarily large stuff. That would be yet another blanket statement akin to the China one, in that it tars a whole country due to a limited portion of examples.

Does that make the point I was trying to put across any clearer?

 

[ZRH`]

Yeah I gotcha.

I research the **** out of everything before I buy it personally, COO doesnt really matter but western countries and Japan always seem to have relatively transparent business practices. One of the things that used to get me about Craftsman even before it was outsourced was that it wasn't always clear who made the tool. Then you have like Martin tools or Wright and they are all 'This is the forge where we make literally everything we sell'

 

[bushmechanic]

Where did I say everything in the US was better? You are putting words in my mouth. Im posting about a very specific well documented part of Chinese business practice.

Scholarly (peer reviewed) sources:
Managing product safety of imported Chinese goods
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0007681309001220
Managing “quality failure” in China: lessons from the dairy industry case
http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/10.1108/17468800910968391
Doing Business in China: A Risk Analysis
http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/jekem/vol1/iss1/7/

Even older case studies:
Why Japan, Not China, Was the First to Develop in East Asia: Lessons from Sericulture, 1850–1937
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.10...2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21105308868311

An entire book on the topic:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470405589/?tag=atomicindus08-20

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

You're hitting at least one nail on the head so far as cultural differences are concerned, but there are a lot of nails holding this coffin together.

A lot of this "culture" has been developed as a result of rapid expansion and competition. China took a back seat to everything for a very long time.

Five years before foreign trade opened up in Japan, the "black ships" sailed into a harbor on an island that had stoically remained politically and economically isolated for two centuries.

Japan was well-equipped to set aside time and resources to create quality goods for export, and major population centers were rabidly interested in western customs and imports.

The maritime might and endless supply of the western nations became married to the self-sufficient, careful, and controlled economy of Japan. You couldn't sink them if you tried.

This happened quickly. Japan was jealous of it's customs, and the west was all too happy to oblige their ways if that's what it took to make things happen.

Tradition demanded very strict business practices, and trade associations walked on eggshells as the nation carefully built themselves into an economic and educational power step by step, from basic infrastructure up.

The whole enterprise was planned and executed nearly to perfection, and with extreme discipline.

This is in stark contrast to China, which had been broken up, governed, and even occupied by countless nations over the years; including little old Japan.

They weren't even in complete control of their own major centers of commerce until 1997, and their internal wars and political feuds were stoked and lasted well into the 20th century.

China never sat down and decided to build a nation that could handle the demands of western trade in a hundred years time. Their cultural identity and their business identities are separate.

They've had to be opportunists for centuries, and from a business perspective, they still can't see why that's a problem. They don't have the foundation of other Asian nations. They are top heavy as hell, and they know it.

Grab everything you can while you can grab it.

Right when they would have been sorting that out and building the bedrock under their industry, Communism hit their territories like a hammer, and stopped everything.

Taiwan, the remnants of defeated Chinese progress, took that opportunity and ran with it. Give them a few more years, and they'll be on top of the world. They just had a bit of a late start.

China (as we think of it) was denied that chance by their own hand.

We think of them as an economic power, but they are literally at the mercy of a single pen-stroke from one of thousands of locations around the world. They know it, and you can see the struggle.

Japan was getting this stuff ready almost 150 years ago. China's only been at it a couple of decades; under a government that's ill-equipped to make sure it's done properly.

None of these quality issues are surprising. The "fade" your sources mention is very real, but it's not surprising, either.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I really wanted to write a Mega Post on this topic, then I realized Monty Python's Eric Idle said it all, 35 years ago:

The world today seems absolutely crackers,
With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.
There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.
It's depressing and it's senseless, and that's why...
I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.
You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They come from a long way overseas,
But they're cute and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude.
Think of the many things they've done to impress.
There's Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.

So I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucious taught.
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're wise and they're witty, and they're ready to please.

All together.

[verse in Chinese]
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Ni hao ma; ni hao ma; ni hao ma; zaijien! (How are you; how are you; how are you; goodbye!)

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
Their food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine, and lychees.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees...

I like German Sheppards. They are intelligent, friendly, and loyal..

 

[Zrexxer]

I like German Sheppards. They are intelligent

Then you should ask them how to spell "Shepherd..."



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1950mercury]

This is like talking politcs and religion....

 

[2oolhound]

Holy **** Batman! APPLE's comin' home!

With the new Mac Pro, we assemble the entire product and machine several of its high-precision components in the United States. By leveraging the innovative power of industry-leading companies in Texas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, and over a dozen other states across America, we're able to build a product that's impeccably constructed and beautiful in every detail. In other words, exactly as it was envisioned by our designers and engineers in California.

I think Apple was one of the last computer companies to manufacture their computers in China. I'm sure China is doing more than OK with the iPhone production. Is Apple getting paid for every unit being sold in China? Is all their technology safe guarded within the Apple factories? At any rate I found it interesting that the new Mac Pro computers were largely being built back in the USA again.

The Video:

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/video/#assembly

 

[OGJordan]

I or just the 'Murica™ hillbilly mentality?!?!

Nothing else to discuss, this nails it. The same geniuses that still think Chevy and Ford make quality vehicles.

 

[KamiCrit]

Really I think y'all have yet to discover the true worldly quality of CANADIAN made tools!

 

[PJNJ]

COO/Global manufacturing rant - check
Spelling lessons - check
pop psychology - check
knocking american auto quality - check
(Chinese) history lessons - check
arguing who said what - check

Okay guys lets get it together - we still need political rant, HF quality/tool chest/ratchet and socket rant, Snap On rant. Without those this thread is unfinished.

 

[Fretters]

COO/Global manufacturing rant - check
Spelling lessons - check
pop psychology - check
knocking american auto quality - check
(Chinese) history lessons - check
arguing who said what - check

Okay guys lets get it together - we still need political rant, HF quality/tool chest/ratchet and socket rant, Snap On rant. Without those this thread is unfinished.

Isn't there supposed to be a comment about banging someones wife thrown in for good measure too?

 

[PJNJ]

Isn't there supposed to be a comment about banging someones wife thrown in for good measure too?

Forgive my senior moment - banging someones wife rant - check and double check.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Then you should ask them how to spell "Shepherd..."



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll have to remember that.... Sheppard is a Diesel Tractor that the German Shepherd likes to drive... Too many goof-ups like that and I'll be in the Doghouse..

 

[Adam.C]

Managing product safety of imported Chinese goods
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0007681309001220
Managing “quality failure” in China: lessons from the dairy industry case

Did you guys read this? "Quality fade"? Are you kidding me? What kind of sicko could even conceive of such a thing?

They make stuff for less than the materials cost. We GJ readers then rave about the quality and low prices. Then slowly, the manufacturer reduces the quality, substituting materials to increase profit. By that time the reputation is set and those who complain can be easily marginalized. Dastardly.

 

[maxwage]

COO/Global manufacturing rant - check
Spelling lessons - check
pop psychology - check
knocking american auto quality - check
(Chinese) history lessons - check
arguing who said what - check

Okay guys lets get it together - we still need political rant, HF quality/tool chest/ratchet and socket rant, Snap On rant. Without those this thread is unfinished. [emoji481]

Darn. You'd have an A++ in online forum grammar. Hooray! Your intelligence and insight is off the charts.

I own and love my GMC truck. They point flew well over your head as well. You are an idiot if you think I'm bashing mechanics. I'm a phucking sawdust monkey.

**** not hurting as much now?

I apologize if this topic is beat to death..

 

[merbie]

wait wait wait..... is he gone? wild cowboys gone? holy **** best day at work ever

 

[PJNJ]

Darn. You'd have an A++ in online forum grammar. Hooray! Your intelligence and insight is off the charts.

I own and love my GMC truck. They point flew well over your head as well. You are an idiot if you think I'm bashing mechanics. I'm a phucking sawdust monkey.

**** not hurting as much now?

I apologize if this topic is beat to death..

Wow - what is wrong with you? Where did I say you were bashing mechanics? Where did I say you were bashing American vehicles. And I was being sarcastic to those who like to constantly tell people about their spelling mistakes. The world doesn't revolve around you - there were many posts in this thread that my post was being directed at; not you. You should really read carefully and reflect before you hit "post reply". And I like my F150.

As for my **** - it's just fine. How's your mouth feeling with that foot in it?

 

[CNGsaves]

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and . . . In Before The Lock . . . . . . IBTL

 

[logixjock]

wait wait wait..... is he gone? wild cowboys gone? holy **** best day at work ever