This is not a Torx.
- Thread starter woody 73
- Start date
It's one of those things where you think your using the right tool and find out it's been the wrong one all along. Torx for Torx Plus or Phillips for JIS or pozidriv. It makes life so much better when you find the right one.
If anyone is going to do it it will probably be General Motors.
finn
Well-known member
Super Duty trucks use them for the bed mounts at least as far Back as 2003, & probably as far back as 99.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
A #3 PH will work on them. I found the proprietary bits are quickly destroyed with impact use.
Many years ago, I was on the job and "up a creek" when i figured this out.
Wakefield
Well-known member
On some GM vehicles as early as 1980 they had a "T 47" that looks something like a Torx plus
I would hope that Ford used something a little bigger than that for bed mounts
Snapped-off
Well-known member
And then there's Mortorq on atleast some Euros.
There's 1 stupid triangle bolt in the injection pump on 1.9 TDI's
finn
Well-known member
From memory, the super Duty has a t47 Torx plus head and a self tapping 14 mm thread. Don’t remember the pitch. They’re a hardened fastener, and, I think, tty. The head is a large diameter for greater bearing area.
Generic parts store replacements have an Allen fastener and seem quite soft compared to the oem fastener
nbpt100
Well-known member
Like the guy in the video said. When the patent ran out they had to come up with another one. Like the drug companies. The advantage of a torx over a Philips is dramaticly bettter. How much better is the Torx Plus or these other off shoots. Supposedly less tool wear on the bit. The only time I have worn out a Torx bit is when I used it inappropriately on the next size up. I.E. at T25 on at T30. Is the TP really a significan advantage? Or just anonther gimic to sell more tools and frustrate home gamers to go to a dealer.?????? Just saying. Isnt that what the German car companies does?Torx is from 1967
Torx Plus, was introduced in 1990
And now TORX PARALOBE
Maybe but more likely they will come up with their own fasteners....... and you have to buy the tool from them.
Yes, It takes a while to get out there. Especially when the advantage is very small. I mean at what point does a large high volume manufacterer decide to make the shift to one of these newer off shoot fasteners?. They are supposely driven by cost. Time and money. I would like to see thier thought process on this. The TP really saves them on tool bit wear? IDK
GreenIron
Well-known member
Besides the design and trademark name associated with it, It's still a TORX.
jayemm
Well-known member
Were Torx Plus ever used on caliper bolts? I recall doing a few brake jobs where the torx bit seemed a little sloppy fitting. If I was a mechanic I'd probably know the answer to this, but I'm just DIY who does the very occasional brake job. Just wonderin'.
finn
Well-known member
Tool wear is only part of it. The Torx and Torx plus are much more amenable to automated assembly lines than previous fasteners, ie hex or Phillips.
Also, automated assembly lines are expensive. A lot of changes don’t happen until the line is scrapped for a new one. That why GM stuck with a mixture of sad and metric for a long time. They did what they had to do to conserve cash. Eventually they got there, much to the consternation of some downstream of the factory.
Nobody invents new fasteners just because they can. That’s just dumb thinking. It takes tens of millions of dollars to design, prove out, and implement a new design. Nobody has money laying around to spend just for the heck of it.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Torx Plus really shines at the really small fastener sizes, where the slightest misalignment or issue can cause a regular torx to strip out. The main improvement of Torx Plus is the the drive angle. Regular Torx has a 15° drive angle, Torx Plus has a 0° drive angle. It reduces the stress on the tips of the tool, and allows for much more force with a much smaller drive size. Regular hex has a 60° drive angle, and equivalent-size drives will cam-out at much lower torque levels than a Torx will.
Torx's main issues are poor quality no-name bits, and that things go wrong quite quickly if the drive on the fastener is compromised (rust, corrosion, etc..)
But ultimately I agree no automaker is using new types of screws just for fun. There are a billion reasons why an automaker may use one type of screw head somewhere, and a different somewhere else. Personally I think it's mostly just poor engineering and bad systems integration, especially when other automakers don't need to use special fasteners in similar locations doing similar tasks. The old Jeep 4.0s come to mind, where the top 2 bellhousing bolts were external torx for some reason, while the rest are hex.
Torx's main issues are poor quality no-name bits, and that things go wrong quite quickly if the drive on the fastener is compromised (rust, corrosion, etc..)
Well, sorta. There are companies that specialize in making propriety tamper resistant fasteners. You can call them up, tell them you want something special, and they'll roll you a custom fastener and drive tools to go with it. Not only that, but you can even specify (presumably by paying more) how long (if ever ) it is until the tooling gets publicly released for sale.
But ultimately I agree no automaker is using new types of screws just for fun. There are a billion reasons why an automaker may use one type of screw head somewhere, and a different somewhere else. Personally I think it's mostly just poor engineering and bad systems integration, especially when other automakers don't need to use special fasteners in similar locations doing similar tasks. The old Jeep 4.0s come to mind, where the top 2 bellhousing bolts were external torx for some reason, while the rest are hex.
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You would think so, but I worked at a job where they had to explain to people not to use torx drivers on Allen screws.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
rawen2
Well-known member
Although a hammered-in Torx bit will sometimes remove a rounded-out out Allen head screw...
CGarage
Well-known member
My VIM bit set has Torx Plus. Thanks for the heads up.
Great work, VIM Tools, for having the foresight to include these bits.
Great work, VIM Tools, for having the foresight to include these bits.