Ive got the permit for my backyard workshop... 24x14 portable building with power... The problem is that there is a 25' easment in the back of the yard for a gas line... Big deal right.. Just dont build within 25' of the back of the property...I have to uncover or find the rear property pins to prove im not on the easment... Well.. One neighbor pulled one up because it was in his way...lol... The other one wont let me in his yard to look for it as he thinks im really the police looking for something... Lol... What does a guy do... Im sure i could find a surveyer to find/mark them for me... But at what cost and could he get it done without being murdered by the one neighbor... What to do
those darn property pins....
- Thread starter vwscott
- Start date
one of our fences is crooked because our old neighbor told me the old guy that owned our house moved the markers in the middle of the night before the fence guys came 
The corner is not where it is supposed to be according to the surveyors. Some of our yard is technically part of our neighbors yard because the markers were moved. We have pins now, but the markers were rods before.
The corner is not where it is supposed to be according to the surveyors. Some of our yard is technically part of our neighbors yard because the markers were moved. We have pins now, but the markers were rods before.Grumpy365
Well-known member
I don't understand this, what is the difference between a pin and a rod?
Every pin I have seen was a piece of rebar driven in to the ground.
Zeke
Well-known member
Well, the inspector will want to verify your distance. Just tell him to go ahead. When he discovers the problem, ask him for a solution. If he tells you to get a surveyor, kill him and bury him on the neighbor's property.
I have been told it is my job to find the pins regardless of how i go about it... Metal detector or surveyer... Its my nightmare...
Zeke
Well-known member
Well, you just answered your own question. Go put them in wherever you think they should go and don't say a word. I dealt with inspectors for 40 years. They are easy to fool because they are lazy at heart.
Always leave something trivial and obvious wrong that can easily be fixed. If they don't find something, they will keep looking.
I've had some inspectors in the old days say, "Well, you look like a fine young man. The trunk is open (that's where you placed the whiskey). Where's your job card? Run it out here to the street, I have a lot of inspections to do today."
Always leave something trivial and obvious wrong that can easily be fixed. If they don't find something, they will keep looking.
I've had some inspectors in the old days say, "Well, you look like a fine young man. The trunk is open (that's where you placed the whiskey). Where's your job card? Run it out here to the street, I have a lot of inspections to do today."
garboui
Well-known member
Good advice. Ive got a rod at one corner of my property but at the other where I had to rebuild a section of fence there was nothing but a pole of frost fence that my neighbor speculates that is where the property marker is. It was favoring my interest of a bigger property over the existing fence trajectory and will be "the point" now if I have to declare it for a permit.
I would say lay a rod at the out-most corner of your fenceline and call it a day. The neighbor that doesn't want you snoopiong cant have a problem since bringing it up as an issue may require having the actual pin found.
Get your lot surveyed.
Regardless of whether you find the pins or not, you have no way of knowing whether they are in the correct location or not. Should there be a dispute you don't want to get that letter in the mail that demands you tear down your new building and move it 6" left.
Regardless of whether you find the pins or not, you have no way of knowing whether they are in the correct location or not. Should there be a dispute you don't want to get that letter in the mail that demands you tear down your new building and move it 6" left.
flyingw
Well-known member
I concur with pmech. A legit survey eliminates any doubt.
SGKent
Banned
Here in California there is a law that basically says if you have reason to believe your neighbor is using your property against your wishes and you do nothing it ends up the neighbors property. That is a common law in many areas of the country hence "squatters' rights." Get the land surveyed and if your neighbors are on your land ask them politely to leave and if they refuse get an attorney. In the meantime you have the corners. Just to be safe have the surveyor put in a 2nd set of bars a known distance from the corners in case your neighbors pull the rods and move them. Hope they do - the judge would love that.
James E
Well-known member
I believe the legal term for that is "adverse posession".
I concur with those who suggested getting a survey. I know you don't want to spend the money, but even with a moveable building, you don't want to get the city on your case.
I concur with those who suggested getting a survey. I know you don't want to spend the money, but even with a moveable building, you don't want to get the city on your case.
Tech Guy
Well-known member
Were you not provided with a lot survey by the lawyer when you purchased the property ? Up here it is law that you receive one showing the markers etc.
Ric in Richmond
Well-known member
I have a neighbor who had about a foot of my property on one side. For years I would send a letter to them registered that they had permission to use the fence. I would do so with every new neighbor as well. Especially since they likely had a survey done and could look at it and see I was correct.
This kept them from adverse possession of my land.
When the most recent neighbor went to replace it in the same spot. I had to inform them that they were not allowed to remove the old fence and that they would have to build on their own land.
Their old fence had been built onto with my fence and I kept it.
I also had to find my pins a couple of years ago. Save yourself the trouble & hire a surveyor to find or replace your pins. I think that I only paid about $150. Once you have your pins dig around them, place a section of plastic tile around it just below the ground & fill with sakrete. Just dont cover the pins. Place a cap on it you will always know where they are. The cement will be a deterent from someone pulling them out.
ddawg16
Well-known member
To the OP....please put your location in your profile....it helps to give you a better answer....
Something to try....look up your property on the tax assesor web site. In my case, I can pull up a scetch of the neighborhood and it shows the size of eash lot. It doesn't sound like you have a side location issue....just how far back you can go. If your lot is 200'...then measure 200' from the inside curb line....that will be the rear property line.
If that does not give you the results you want....get the survey.
When I did mine....I was able to move at least 6" more to one side....and it convinced my neighbor that his tree was going to be too close to the garage and needed to come down.
Something to try....look up your property on the tax assesor web site. In my case, I can pull up a scetch of the neighborhood and it shows the size of eash lot. It doesn't sound like you have a side location issue....just how far back you can go. If your lot is 200'...then measure 200' from the inside curb line....that will be the rear property line.
If that does not give you the results you want....get the survey.
When I did mine....I was able to move at least 6" more to one side....and it convinced my neighbor that his tree was going to be too close to the garage and needed to come down.
BlindViper
Well-known member
So the gas line is the property line? Call miss utility and have them mark the gas line.
KCarGuy
Well-known member
Finding the Pins is Important...even if there is fences up for years.
When I bought my house over 20 years ago, I wanted to put a small wooden fence across the back, so my neighbor and I cleaned up and split the cost and installed one right on the property line. Perfect.
Then I wanted to install a new Garage, only to find out that our driveway was on a slight angle and ran over on the property next door (which was a Family member of the original owner/builder, so it didnt matter then), but we had to buy 2 and a Half feet from front to back to get everything straightened out, then built my Garage 5 feet off the New Lot Line.
Now my other neighbor was checking into building a garage (he has none right now) and he finds the pins, only to tell me that our existing chain link fence (which I hate and want to replace with a small wooden one) is 9 feet too far on our own property.
We checked and its on an angle also, the property line, according to the pins, means my new fence would be moved 9 feet out in back and 3 feet out at the front.
Thats a nice chunk of property that I gain, that I didnt even know was mine, that I pay taxes on.
(Thanks Dave for mowing it all these years)
This summer, new fence up...old fence down. Then Dave can plan for his Garage.
Check your Lot Lines!
When I bought my house over 20 years ago, I wanted to put a small wooden fence across the back, so my neighbor and I cleaned up and split the cost and installed one right on the property line. Perfect.
Then I wanted to install a new Garage, only to find out that our driveway was on a slight angle and ran over on the property next door (which was a Family member of the original owner/builder, so it didnt matter then), but we had to buy 2 and a Half feet from front to back to get everything straightened out, then built my Garage 5 feet off the New Lot Line.
Now my other neighbor was checking into building a garage (he has none right now) and he finds the pins, only to tell me that our existing chain link fence (which I hate and want to replace with a small wooden one) is 9 feet too far on our own property.
We checked and its on an angle also, the property line, according to the pins, means my new fence would be moved 9 feet out in back and 3 feet out at the front.
Thats a nice chunk of property that I gain, that I didnt even know was mine, that I pay taxes on.
(Thanks Dave for mowing it all these years)
This summer, new fence up...old fence down. Then Dave can plan for his Garage.
Check your Lot Lines!
AV8OR
Well-known member
Get your lot surveyed and have them set the pins in concrete. It will cost you more but as you can see it will solve most of your problems.
1950ChevySuburban
Well-known member
Modern surveying equipment will find plenty of past mismarked lot lines. Sometimes it's in your favor, sometimes not.
Before building up my fence ( I’m enclosing my property with a 6ft brick wall) I got the property surveyed. We found that our neighbor built his garage 2 feet onto my property. So now my neighbor is in $%#* creek. He is a great neighbor and we are working to have the property lines redrawn to “give” him back his garage. He poured his garage’s pad based on old “pins” (rebar stakes with white paint on them) that he found around the area of his garage.
The fact of the matter is unless it is a monument with the surveyor’s number on it, it isn’t worth scrap.
Its well worth getting the property surveyed and getting your property properly marked and recorded before you start building anything.
The fact of the matter is unless it is a monument with the surveyor’s number on it, it isn’t worth scrap.
Its well worth getting the property surveyed and getting your property properly marked and recorded before you start building anything.
hh76
Well-known member
I overheard a contractor talking about driving his own pins to avoid setback issues. I wonder how often this happens?
I live in Willard Missouri, for those that were wondering.... I have put a call in to a local sureveyer... I plan to get the skid foundation built where I think it will end up, allowing myself a couple feet buffer... then call and have it sureveyed... then have it inspected for location before the neighbors pull the pins again...lol I like the concrete idea.. May have to look into it.
64dragnwagon
Well-known member
I had my land surveyed several yrs ago when I had some trees harvested because a neighbor stopped the loggers and told them they were cutting trees on his land. He was wrong BUT when I had it surveyed I found out that another neighbor was mowing part of my land and had a dog fence and part of a propane tank on my property. He came out and asked about it and I showed him what where the line was and told him I didn'tm really care as it is a long way from my house and wooded. I also found out when I bought the place that the well on MY property was being used and maintained by the neighbor who complained about the logging. By the way the compainer lost part of his lot that he thought was his. He had a pig pen on my land and some junk, My attorney said the well could be an issue if I tried to make him stop using it, something about water rights and the aforementioned adverse possesion. I never intended to use the well so I told him he could keep using it.
63roundbody
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
- Messages
- 128
Can you locate the front corners? If so measure back.
mdbeck1
Well-known member
Different places have different rules. We had the "option" to have a "Pin" survey done when we bought the house. It cost a little bit extra but when we arrived the surveyer had put flags at the corners. The ones in the front were a couple feet onto the grass from the street. The ones in the back were right on the fence line and five or six feet in from the fence.
There's a hotel parking lot behind my house and the fence is in the middle of the "utility easement". So when I put the portable building on the back of the property I made sure and left room for the easement and another five feet.
Kind of an interesting note but the city came by and told me I had to clean up the trees and then decided to remove them for free (did I tell you it was on the easement?). anyway it worked out for me. The trash trees are gone and I get to use the five or six feet of city property.
There's a hotel parking lot behind my house and the fence is in the middle of the "utility easement". So when I put the portable building on the back of the property I made sure and left room for the easement and another five feet.
Kind of an interesting note but the city came by and told me I had to clean up the trees and then decided to remove them for free (did I tell you it was on the easement?). anyway it worked out for me. The trash trees are gone and I get to use the five or six feet of city property.
Grumpy365
Well-known member
No way to keep it square or know if the lot was originally square.
I went to my building/zoning department and was told the dimensions of my lot and also shown an aerial drawing of all the lots in my neighborhood and the easements. I was also told that ther isn't a law that says you can't build on an easement, but if they need to get to the cables under your building they can give you hell. I have friends that work for the cable company, phone and electrical company and they said that they have never torna building down to get to a cable. They told me they see it all the time and just use one of those boring machines to run new wire under the building. Might not be the same in your area. (Northern IL)I only built about a foot onto my easement, but lucky enough all the cables run down the middle of it and there is still about 12 ft between my building and the neighbors fence so they can get a vehicle back there if needed.
dirttracker18
Well-known member
That must be a municipal by-law as it is not provincial or federal. Up here hardly anyone has a copy of their survey and the municipalities often do not have it on record. It's up to you as the homeowner to prove if need be.
Tech Guy
Well-known member
Maybe it is municipal DIRT, it came with the package from the lawyer when we purchased 17 years ago. Neighbour got one as well 5 years ago when he purchased.
GMCAMARO
Well-known member
We used to live in the on the largest lake in MA. Space is at a premium and our neighbors did things that were extremely selfish. One day we were discussing this with a lawyer and their advice was to just move. My point to you is maybe you should not build your structure but just sell the house and find a better situation, before you spend the money and are sorry.
dirttracker18
Well-known member
That would be great as we have had to get lots surveyed when doing work on our dime. It is a nice feature when selling though.
No one I know here has one, save for one friend that got one with his purchase.
You can go to your town/city hall and get a printout of your "parcel map" and a listing of any permits that were run on/for your property. I did this when I bought my house; it only cost $2 per copy (11x17 for the maps). This will give you an aerial view of your property and where the lines are supposed to be. If you can find one or two monuments you can “kinda” measure out your property yourself. BUT with today’s technology surveyors measure your property lines down to the inch. The issue is are the pins/monuments you found in the correct location? 3 neighbors over there is a guy who pulled up his neighbors monuments because he thought that the property was his and didn’t trust the surveyor. I wouldn’t put it past someone to move stakes to make their yard just a little bigger at your expense.
You are paying property tax for every inch of your property. Why not make sure you are getting what you pay for?
You are paying property tax for every inch of your property. Why not make sure you are getting what you pay for?
Falcon67
Well-known member
Yes, there is. Check with the city or county tax assessor for the lot layout, it may well be on line from a geo survey. Or check county records for the original plat. Know the dimensions, and if you have two pins you can find the other corners no problem. String lines, stakes, a long measuring tape and the 3-4-5 rule gets you square corners if that's how it's platted.
I had to keep to a 5' side easment and 3' rear which I made 10'. The foundation had to be 6' from the side to allow for the eve. The NW corner pin was likely removed when the POs set the fence, the NE corner is under a 10' square pile of rubble. I found the front two with a $40 HF metal detector working from an old survey plus the on line geo survey showing the lot at 65w x 110'd. 500' of string, a 100' measuring tape, wife helper and a few pieces of rebar and some grade stakes - all set in the proper place.
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bajones238
Well-known member
You may still run into problems if there is a boundary dispute, and if you have a registered land surveyor (RLS) perform your survey, unless it is what is known as an ALTA survey (American Land Title Association). The ALTA surveys take precedence in most cases.
Also be aware that removal of a permanent survey marker (i.e. property corner pin) is a criminal act, at least here in Georgia (and I suspect in most or all other states as well).
Also be aware that removal of a permanent survey marker (i.e. property corner pin) is a criminal act, at least here in Georgia (and I suspect in most or all other states as well).
Grumpy365
Well-known member
BFHgarage
Active member
Typically your property does not go all the way to the curb. Your property only goes to the right of way line, which could be 10-20 feet outside the curb line.
Falcon67
Well-known member
What he said. Our street is 20' wide with a 50' easement. Pins are well off the street. Alley is 20' wide, pins mark the alley.