Thoughts On 12 Point & Semi Deep Sockets

[VRStrickland]

33 years ago, as a 16 year old know it all, I wrecked my brand new chrome lug nuts by rechecking them the day after they were installed using a 12 point socket. Cracked the chrome off of every one of them. (Yes I could hear it cracking but I guess I was too stupid to figure out what it was) Thus began my disdain of 12 point sockets and my personal move to an all 6 point socket collection. 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2, chrome and impact, shop box & road box, every socket I owned was 6 point.
Then, sometime in my mid 20's I picked up sets of 3/8 drive chrome 12 point semi deeps in standard and metric because I was starting to see a few 12 point fasteners that I couldn't get at with a box end wrench. Since that time I have acquired 1/4 and 1/2 12 point semi deep sets in chrome as well as 3/8 and 1/2 12 point semi deep sets in impact. As such, all of my semi deep sockets are now 12 point. Because I pretty much only use 12 point sockets on 12 point fasteners I now own 10 sets of sockets that I almost never use. (Well over a grand worth of sockets, and NO I won't send them to you)
This brings me to my point and question. How many of my fellow pro wrench turners use 12 point sockets when you don't have to? How often do you use you semi deep sockets? I wonder if I am missing opportunities to make my life easier because I never reach for the semi deep sets? Perhaps I just need to start buying semi deep sets in 6 point? ****, maybe I am just trying to give myself and excuse to buy some more tools! No matter, I really am interested in hearing your thoughts on 12 points and semi deeps.
Thanks guys.

 

[danmcph]

In for replies

 

[Corndoggeh]

I only have 12pt for my 1/2" and 3/8" drive chrome sockets. 6pt for 1/4" drive only because of the size of the sockets I'm dealing with, and a 1/2" drive 6pt impact socket set. I also have a truck that lived on the salt roads for quite a while and my 12pt Cman USA sockets haven't stripped a bolt or a nut yet.

 

[HanShotFirst]

12 points work just fine for most things, but in today's world of 72-80 tooth ratchets, they're making less and less sense. I have a smattering of both and I really don't pay much attention to what I grab, but as soon as something is REALLY tight, I stop and look at which socket I have.

Still, for some reason we think less of 12 point sockets, yet we'll go after the most stubborn fastener with our 12 point box end of our combo wrenches.

 

[Sugarfryz]

Up here in the rust belt I don't use them unless it's a 12 point head. They will work fine if it's not a real rusted bolt tho. Just keep them in my box across the shop and have my cart stocked with all 6pts. They rarely get touched

As for the semi deeps. There's been a few times they seem like they'd be nice, not enough for me to justify buying them tho. I have 1/4 semi deep from matco and they rarely get touched so I just don't feel the need to buy them

 

[Fedwrench]

I have very few 12 point sockets. I only use them on 12 point fasteners. I use six point on everything else.

Semi deep or mid length sockets are my favorite reach for first sockets and have been for a long time. Be it knuckle clearance or thread clearance, semi deeps serve me well and I wouldn't want to be without them.

 

[American Locomotive]

I use 12 points often because what's what I have for the most part. If I have a super rusty bolt, or something that's REALLY stuck, I might go out of my way to grab a 6 point.

I've put a lot of force on 12 point sockets mated to 6 point bolts without a problem.

 

[mlum6969]

i use my 12 points for the "other" jobs. installing seals, wheel lock removal or stripped fastener removal. haven't seen too many other 12 point fasteners other than driveshafts..

 

[Finky198]

I have 12pt shallow chrome in 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4". I don't use 12 point unless its 12pt except for the 3/4" stuff. Mid lengths are on my list, but likey 6pt 1/4" 3/8" only.

 

[jherb10]

I have 12pt in 1/4" chrome, metric and sae. deep and shallow; 3/8" chrome metric and sae, deep and shallow, 3/8" shallow impact sockets, 1/2" sae chrome deep and shallow, and most of my 3/4" sockets are 12pt. But I rarely use them unless the fastener is 12pt.

I have mid-depth sockets in chrome, 1/4" and 3/8", 6 pt only. There are many times where come in handy.

 

[nelstomlinson]

Those 12 point sockets you used 33 years ago were not flank drive, right? With modern sockets, 12 point is about as good as six.

Semi-deep sockets are my go-to sockets in 1/4 and 3 / 8 drive, and if I had them in 1/2 drive, Semi-deep would be my go-to there as well.

 

[dnschmidt]

Anything over 15mm in my opinion doesn't care whether it's 6 or 12 point. With flank drive the rounding over argument is nonsense for anything 15mm or larger. Here in Arizona 12 point is fine for damn near anything. 12 point works on wrenches so why should it not work on sockets if they are bigger than 15mm?

 

[pawnworld007]

I have very few 12 point sockets. I only use them on 12 point fasteners. I use six point on everything else.

Semi deep or mid length sockets are my favorite reach for first sockets and have been for a long time. Be it knuckle clearance or thread clearance, semi deeps serve me well and I wouldn't want to be without them.

Agreed! In the 5 or so years that I turned wrenches, being the nosey tool loving person that I am, have snooped through around 40 mechanics boxes. Can't think of a single one that had much more in the 12 pt department than a set of 3/8 drive shallows, for use on 12 pt fasteners. Everything else was 6 pt.

In my early years I worked with one of the best mechanics I've ever met. He let me ask a lot of questions, and I learned a ton from him. When I asked about 6 pt. vs 12 pt. sockets, he promptly replied, 6 pt. sockets are for 6 pt. fasteners, 12 pt. sockets are for 12 pt. fasteners. Been good enough for me ever since.

Completely unrelated, but quite humorous. One time I asked the same mechanic for a crescent wrench, he said "Am I a fu**ing plumber? You're a mechanic, get a wrench!!"

 

[T45]

12 point is great as long as the hardware is OK. 6 point is better when the hardware is crappy--ie soft--due to chinesium or rust. Its a bit of a misnomer that the better 12point sockets will ruin ("roudn off") the hardware. What happens with good 12pts is they work fine, except in cases where the crappy hardware plastic-ly deforms inside the socket. A 6point has less open space to enable this deformation. Crappy 12 pts will round stuff off 'cause they fit like shite...owever that is a different topic (tolerances). This distinction is why even good brands make 6pt line wrenches.

 

[tr0n]

i find that 12pts slip off easier rounding hasn't been an issue really. due to a couple 6pt sockets that grew legs, my most used sockets (9/16 and 1/2 in 3/8 drive) are currently 12pt Protos.

they work fine on 6pt fasteners but i'm not really a fan of the feel. once i get around to filling the holes in my sets i'll be grabbing some more 6pts.

as far as semi deeps...if i could justify buying a few sets i'm sure i would love em. often find the shallows a bit shallow and the deeps a bit deep. they'd make a nice go-to.

 

[gdocktor3]

12 point sockets get used on 12 point fasteners. Other than that they sit in the box. I can't stand them.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I WILL NEVER BUY A 12 POINT SOCKET UNTIL I COME ACROSS A 12 POINT NUT/BOLT !

I busted too many knuckles using 12 point sockets on rusty nuts and bolts 40+ years ago. I even picked up a spare set of Craftsman 6 point SAE combination wrenches about 10 years ago on a close out. I would love a set of vintage Craftsman 6 point Metric combination wrenches.

Never had a need for semi-deep sockets. I don't even own deep 1/4" drive sockets. 3/8" drive deep have always worked for me.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Perhaps I just need to start buying semi deep sets in 6 point? ****, maybe I am just trying to give myself and excuse to buy some more tools!

That's what it boils down to. Myself I have a variety in different sets, partial sets and individuals. I try to always use the 6pts.
If I could I'd keep a set of 12 point shallows just for the occasional 12 point bolt and trade the rest for 6 points.

 

[californiaHank]

I don't have room in my box for stuff I don't use.
Over time, most of my 12 points have been replaced with 6's.
I still have a set of 12 pt deeps in 1/2" drive.
They're 'flank drive', so I don't feel any pressure to replace that last set of 12's.
I don't think I'd get enough use out of 'semi deeps' to justify buying them. YMMV

 

[Al Borland]

Mostly, I use impact sockets at work if there is room, so 6 point. that being said, I have both 6 point and 12 point sockets at home. I usually use the 6 pointers in 1/4" or 3/8".
1/2" is big enough that 12 points don't matter.
mid-length - where needed only.

 

[gdocktor3]

If you want 12 point, get 12 point spline.

 

[bob15]

I am I the only one taht doesn't have issues with 12 point sockets? Maybe those who have issues with them were/are still using the older conventional style sockets? The Bonney Loc-Rites have treated me real were in all sorts of fasteners that are in all types on conditions; in fact, they have yet to let me down, both currently and when working on the farm and/or the dealership.

Also, those who refuse to use 12 point sockets on hex headed bolts, does that mean you don't own or use any 12 point wrenches?

 

[bulldogr6]

12 point sockets are for 12 point fasteners ;-)

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[jshillin]

I don't buy 12 points either. I have a set of them, just in case, but never use them. As for mid length. I have 6pt sets in 3/8" and 1/4". They are generally the 1st sockets out of my box.

 

[T45]

Also, those who refuse to use 12 point sockets on hex headed bolts, does that mean you don't own or use any 12 point wrenches?

yea, I think this is some kind of myth...12 point was in fasion before flank drive...and I think many people are harking back to using cheap-ish 12 point tools and trashing hardware...

The one problem with sockets vs wrenches is that sockets tend to yaw off axis a bit more than a wrench, which is a fuction of sloppy fit on the sqyare drive or extension and wobble in the ratchet mech. Again, this is much worse in cheap tools, and some higher quality ones will usually fit alot better (minimizing the problem).

so, if you have non-flank drive and wobbly sockets, extensions, and ratchets...and work on cheap and rusty stuff...that's the worst of all possible worlds.

For normal work, I don't really see the issue. Althoug if you doubt your gear, maybe "just avoid the topic and pic 6 point" is a rational strategy.

 

[VRStrickland]

First off, many thanks everyone for the responses. Reading those responses two things are becoming very clear to me. First off, those who feel that 12 point sockets are for 12 point fasteners and those who feel that 12 point socket's can be used on everything are pretty evenly matched number wise. The thing that really jumps out at me though is that no one who has semi deep sockets says that they don't use them. Lots of guys don't have any but it seems that most of the guys who have them use them as their go to socket. As almost every socket in my toolbox is snap on, I don't really have any questions about the quality of my gear. However, that being said I don't think I will probably ever change my opinion on 12 point sockets. I do however think it is probably time for some six-point semi deep sets.


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[gdocktor3]

First off, many thanks everyone for the responses. Reading those responses two things are becoming very clear to me. First off, those who feel that 12 point sockets are for 12 point fasteners and those who feel that 12 point socket's can be used on everything are pretty evenly matched number wise. The thing that really jumps out at me though is that no one who has semi deep sockets says that they don't use them. Lots of guys don't have any but it seems that most of the guys who have them use them as their go to socket. As almost every socket in my toolbox is snap on, I don't really have any questions about the quality of my gear. However, that being said I don't think I will probably ever change my opinion on 12 point sockets. I do however think it is probably time for some six-point semi deep sets.


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At the same time, you've gone 33 years with out semi deep 12 points....
I think you're just looking for some justification to buy something.

 

[bcradio]

yea, I think this is some kind of myth...12 point was in fasion before flank drive...and I think many people are harking back to using cheap-ish 12 point tools and trashing hardware...

The one problem with sockets vs wrenches is that sockets tend to yaw off axis a bit more than a wrench, which is a fuction of sloppy fit on the sqyare drive or extension and wobble in the ratchet mech. Again, this is much worse in cheap tools, and some higher quality ones will usually fit alot better (minimizing the problem).

so, if you have non-flank drive and wobbly sockets, extensions, and ratchets...and work on cheap and rusty stuff...that's the worst of all possible worlds.

For normal work, I don't really see the issue. Althoug if you doubt your gear, maybe "just avoid the topic and pic 6 point" is a rational strategy.

 

[bulldogr6]

The only semi deep sockets I have are 1/4 drive 6 point SO. I rarely use them but when I need them ( glow plug blocked by steering shaft on a 6.6 Duramax diesel) they are a labor saver for sure. I default to the shallowest socket needed to reduce the risk of getting of axis and damaging the fastener or my knuckles.

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[Finky198]

I am I the only one that doesn't have issues with 12 point sockets?

Also, those who refuse to use 12 point sockets on hex headed bolts, does that mean you don't own or use any 12 point wrenches?

I have not had issues with 12 points other than a few times. and I've seen this reasoning a lot, but when it comes to pro wrench turners myself included. Most in my experience will grab a socket and ratchet before for any wrench.

For me It might be a rust belt issue and the stuff I work on. But my wrenches are last on the list of drive tool... Impacts, (air) ratchets, breaker bars, with 6pt sockets come out 9/10 times. It's just less likey to cause issues. If I mess up 1 bolt doing a job with a unessecary 12pt socket/wrench, I have just wasted time. That could have been avoided. It's that simple.....

 

[BK13]

I picked up SO 12 point semi-deeps in the early- to mid-nineties in 1/4"mm and 3/8" SAE and mm and those were essentially my go to sockets until I stumbled on this place. Now, of course, I've completely spiraled out of control with Carlyle 6point semi-deeps in 1/4" and 3/8", inch and metric; Sunex semi-deep 3/8" impacts, and probably more that I've forgotten. I still tend to use the Snappys, unless I break out the impact.

 

[Ktmrider83]

Why does the manufacturer choose to use the 12pt on the flywheel or driveshaft ect?

 

[bulldogr6]

Why does the manufacturer choose to use the 12pt on the flywheel or driveshaft ect?

ARP Fastener's take on it...

http://www.rodauthority.com/news/6-point-or-12-point-the-case-for-arps-12-point-fasteners/

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[Ktmrider83]

Ok, so they are saying it's for clearance..good read. Thanks

 

[Dave455]

12 point is great as long as the hardware is OK. 6 point is better when the hardware is crappy--ie soft--due to chinesium or rust..

Guys, this question of 6 point v 12 point comes up time and time again, and the answer is this ^

My Grandfather worked on heavy trucks in the U.K. from the early 1920's through to the 50's! I have all his tools, and there are very few 6 point sockets - only in 1/4 drive in fact, and no 6 point wrenches! Ditto with regard to my Dad, no six point stuff there either.

Were either of these guys working on anything other than regular 6 point nuts and bolts - no, and I don't think 12 point fasteners had ever been thought of during my Grandfathers career!

So what's going on, well, it's as T45 says, it's due to the quality of the fasteners! I have British made nuts and bolts of the pre war era, and they are all rock hard - you can use a 12 point wrench, or even an open ender without damaging this stuff!

Personally, I never had a need for 6 point sockets for years! Worked my way through the 70's and 80's without problems, then I think in the late 80's I can remember working on Fords with crappy soft fasteners. 6 point became a 'must' and have been the norm ever since!

But - and here's the critical bit, I only have 6 point sockets in Metric. If I work in Inch A/F sizes it's either an aerospace component or an older British made vehicle, the fasteners are decent, and 12 point are fine! If I work in Whitworth it's usually a machine tool and the fasteners are better still!

If I work in metric then most of the fasteners are shite, and I use not only 6 point sockets, but 6 point wrenches too!

 

[VRStrickland]

Yep, I think it is time for some semi deep 6 points in 1/4 drive. Where is that damn SO truck? Now, how do we go about getting Hansen to make some 3 row socket trays? Deep, semi deep and shallow.


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[mlum6969]

Yep, I think it is time for some semi deep 6 points in 1/4 drive. Where is that damn SO truck? Now, how do we go about getting Hansen to make some 3 row socket trays? Deep, semi deep and shallow.


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how about using ernst socket trays? i have the 3 rail and just switch them all around to have one tray all 1/2" and another for 3/8" and one for 1/4"

 

[Hagatronics]

I started building my Snap On socket set 20 odd years ago with 12 point, probably because i didn't know any better, and just kept going. Apart from impact tools and spark plug sockets ALL my sockets are 12 point. Never had a single problem with rounding/slipping/damage.

 

[ssdave]

Essentially all my sockets that I use in 3/8" and 1/2" are 12 point. I've never noticed a problem using them; but they are Proto and Snap-on. I used to have rounding off problems with Craftsman sockets, the problem decreased when I replaced them with SK and essentially disappeared when I went to Proto and Snap-on.

Over the years, I have accumulated quite a few 6 point also, particularly in deep sockets. I don't notice them working either better or worse. By habit, I usually just use the old, familiar 12 point Proto sets instead. I also use the shallowest sockets that will work on the fastener. I have a few semi-deep, and like the concept, but not enough to devote the money and the space in my box to having 6 more sets of sockets in my drawer.

Almost all of my 1/4" sockets are 6 point Snap-on. I never really had many good 1/4" sockets before the snap-on; most of the cheap ones I had were 6 point and they rounded bolts off regularly. Since I replaced them with Snap-on, the problem went away. The 12 point sockets I have in 1/4" seem to work okay, I use them interchangeably with the 6 points.

So, my thoughts are that I think quality of the socket has more to do with rounding off bolts than 12 or 6 point design.

If I had a lot of semi-deep sockets, I might use them to get greater knuckle clearance. I often use a short extension on standard sockets to accomplish that.

 

[VRStrickland]

Actually called Hanson yesterday about the three row idea. Was told that those 3 row trays will be showing up on the SO truck next month and will be exclusive to SO for 8-11 months after.


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