Thoughts on a new socket set

[jasonrohrer]

Oh, you think I might have a defective Dual-80?

I just grabbed it out of the basement, and with my bare fingers on the square drive, it's hard at first to tell which way to turn it... i.e., it's not instantly obvious which way is "free" to click. At first I think I might be trying to turn it the wrong way, then turn it back the other way, find a hard stop, and try again in the first direction, and, oh, there it finally clicks.

Also, I cleaned it up yesterday thoroughly, but this morning, there is TONS of liquid oil oozing from around the square drive. So maybe you're right, and it's absolutely packed with oil, and that is damping the sound, and adding to backdrag, and making things sticky?

At arm's length in my quiet office, I can barely hear it clicking.

In my shop, where I have a HEPA filter running across the room, I can't hear it at all.

I found a video demonstrating a Dual-80 head, and mine is NOTHING like this:

I feel as thought this is an incident of confirmation bias, from the very first criticism of the packaging.

Maybe so... but this was a $192 tool that arrived in a greasy plastic bag, knocking around with another $166 tool, with absolutely no protection. I've never, in my life, ordered a high-quality, expensive item, and had it packaged so carelessly.

I also have been doing "backdrag fights" between two ratchets, where I connect them to the same bolt, face-to-face, and see which one clicks first. The Husky 3/8 wins this easily against the Snap-On Dual 80. It's no surprise that the Ko-Ken 1/4 inch also wins.... but the Husky 3/8 even beats the Snap-On 1/4 72t.

 

[AEAdam]

These tools are designed to be thrown into a metal toolbox and whacked around inside an engine bay. Maybe they feel they don’t need packing. I’ve never mail ordered a Snap On ratchet. I guess everything I’ve bought has come in sets.

I treat my tools like surgeons’ instruments, but I work pretty hard and they’ve held up well, but are not flawless. I think Nepros are the tool jewels.

Again, internet is chocked full of folks expressing their honest opinions on things they have literally no experience with. “I got this tool sent to me to review…”. I need probably a year to get to know a tool (not a socket, but maybe a ratchet, absolutely a hammer, actually sometimes a socket).

 

[richfinn]

Just received a shipment from Snap-On: two of their Multi-position ratchets, the 3/8" drive F80MP with the Dual-80 head, and the 1/4" drive T27MP.

They arrived in a flat corrugated mailer. They were dumped together in a greasy plastic bag inside the mailer. They were covered with oil, grime, and fingerprints. The fit/finish is nowhere near what Ko-Ken offers. Maybe they nicked each other a bit during shipment, since they were both in the same plastic bag?

My Ko-Ken package, pictured above, made me feel like whoever assembled it really cared and took pride in what they were doing.

The Dual-80 head on the larger Snap-On ratchet is... interesting. It's very quiet, and you can hardly hear it operating. It almost feels like "steady friction" more than a clicky ratchet mechanism. And it has tons of back-drag. I thought Dual-80 would mean 160 clicks around the circle, but it's definitely only 80 clicks. The directional switch is sluggish with no audible click.

The 72t head on the smaller Snap-On ratchet is much louder and has less back-drag, though it has a kind of harsh or "scratchy" sound when it ratchets. The directional switch is more nimble with an audible click. The directional switch is very definitive feeling, where it's either left or right, and doesn't want to be in between at all.

Yes, the Ko-Ken 1/4" ratchet only has 20t, but the clicks it makes are very hollow, almost-musical "plunk" sounds. Though the directional switch is somewhat scratchy, and barely clicks, and is not as definitive as the switch on the Snap-On 1/4".

Of course, being able to use them at weird angles or as speeder handles is a big win for the Snap-On Multi-position ratchets, which is why I got them.

I wouldn't worry too much it's pretty typical for Snap On to ship oily tools in a plastic bag inside an envelope if you order online, it's kind of up to the mobile dealers to make the stuff look presentable and pretty on the Trucks.

I got some new Snap On pliers this week and had to spend 10 minutes cleaning off the protective coating and working them to free up the hinge (sadly Knipex don't make this style).

Ko-ken are definitely getting the packaging and presentation right, not flashy just well thought out designs and quality materials/printing. Snap On used to do it (almost exactly like Ko-ken do now) back in the 80s/90s before the ****** accountants on floor 15 got involved

 

[jasonrohrer]

Snap-On sent me a replacement 3/8" multi-position ratchet.

It is identical in performance to the first one. Quiet, sluggish, heavy back-drag, with oil oozing out of the head. If this is the finest ratchet on the planet, I feel like I'm missing something. But it seems like the first one was not defective after all.

I will try the Matco Eighty8 and report back.

 

[AEAdam]

Snap-On sent me a replacement 3/8" multi-position ratchet.

It is identical in performance to the first one. Quiet, sluggish, heavy back-drag, with oil oozing out of the head. If this is the finest ratchet on the planet, I feel like I'm missing something. But it seems like the first one was not defective after all.

I will try the Matco Eighty8 and report back.

Don’t take this the wrong way. Instead of trying another ratchet, do some work with the ratchets you have and see how they perform for the intended purpose.

The quality and utility of these tools isn’t for you to judge based on your initial impressions. A lot of us here have formed our opinions over 100s or 1000s of hours of use with these tools. Trust us. I assume that’s why you are sharing your journey with us.

The Snap on dual 80 is an amazing ratchet. Ratchets are little machines and like any machine there may be an initial break in period.

I could not describe any of the 15+ dual 80 ratchets I own in the terms you have. I may well have ignored my first impressions and just put them to work.

Since purchase, or even those I’ve purchased second hand, I have rebuilt with new replacement kits. On some of those, I used NLGI 2 Super Lube, which thanks to GJ, I now know is too heavy. Snap On uses and supplies NLGI 00 SuperLube. Even those ratchets I could not describe as stiff, oozing oil, or even quiet.

Tho it’s not my favorite form factor, I have a worn out F80 that is amazingly light and smooth with a firm mechanical click like winding an old watch, I can’t imagine how a ratchet mechanism could get any better than that.

 

[jasonrohrer]

Don’t take this the wrong way. Instead of trying another ratchet, do some work with the ratchets you have and see how they perform for the intended purpose.

The quality and utility of these tools isn’t for you to judge based on your initial impressions. A lot of us here have formed our opinions over 100s or 1000s of hours of use with these tools. Trust us. I assume that’s why you are sharing your journey with us.

The Snap on dual 80 is an amazing ratchet. Ratchets are little machines and like any machine there may be an initial break in period.

I could not describe any of the 15+ dual 80 ratchets I own in the terms you have. I may well have ignored my first impressions and just put them to work.

Since purchase, or even those I’ve purchased second hand, I have rebuilt with new replacement kits. On some of those, I used NLGI 2 Super Lube, which thanks to GJ, I now know is too heavy. Snap On uses and supplies NLGI 00 SuperLube. Even those ratchets I could not describe as stiff, oozing oil, or even quiet.

Tho it’s not my favorite form factor, I have a worn out F80 that is amazingly light and smooth with a firm mechanical click like winding an old watch, I can’t imagine how a ratchet mechanism could get any better than that.

Well, I did put the initial Dual-80 to work, and found that it didn't work very well, which is what got me investigating this. I had a HEPA filter running across my shop as I was rebuilding a drum sander, and I wasn't getting feedback from the Dual-80 to let me know whether it was advancing the nut or back-dragging. I couldn't hear it click, and I couldn't feel it click. And the back-drag was high enough that this was a problem several times during the re-build. Switching to my cheap old Husky produced much better results.

I don't know what's causing the oozing oil issue, but both Dual-80s are doing that.

The Snap-on 1/4" drive multi-position is totally different... NOT oozing oil, and a VERY audible click when it ratchets, and quite a bit less backdrag (expected for a smaller ratchet).


So if I wanted to break the Snap-On Dual-80 in, what's the procedure? Obviously, just use it, but if it's a pain to use, then it's a pain to break in, and I'd rather reach for a better-working ratchet, right?

Should I hook it to my drill press and just let it run for a minute? Kind of a goofy suggestion, but...

Also, if these "need breaking in before they get good," that seems like a manufacturing issue. Snap-on should break them in before shipping them, if that's a known issue. Like, it wouldn't be hard for them to have a machine that just ran every ratchet in each direction for 1000 turns or whatever it took.

Yes, ratchets are like machines, but so are watches, and those don't need to be broken in to work properly. They keep time correctly from the very first winding.


Is there any chance, even a remote one, that Snap-On changed something since you all bought your lauded Dual-80 ratchets? Like maybe QC has slid down hill, or the guy lubing them is putting in too much lube, or the wrong lube. Or they're letting their tooling go a bit longer, and the ratchets currently coming off the line have pawls with poor tolerances, or they changed their spring steel supplier, or...

Anyone have a "good" Dual-80 that they wanna sell me, just so I can see what the fuss is about?

 

[spyerx]

Weird. i've about 10 dual 80 ratchets (1/2, 3/8, 1/4) and a couple of their roto head ratchets and they are all really really good. They WORK. And you can crank on them hard. I got a 3/8 fairly recently and it did feel a little tighter new but it's loosened up nice with a little use. I've also hacked a few HF ratchets (long handle flex 1/2 and 2 of the locking 1/4 as SO doesn't have one the same length) and put full snap on dual 80 internals and they feel / work great.

 

[liliysdad]

I have never seen a Dual 80, used or new, that was anything but great. I prefer Matco Eighty8s, but I have just as many Dual 80s in the drawer and have no desire to let them go.

Maybe these just aren't for you.....

 

[Ohio Andy]

Also, if these "need breaking in before they get good," that seems like a manufacturing issue. Snap-on should break them in before shipping them, if that's a known issue. Like, it wouldn't be hard for them to have a machine that just ran every ratchet in each direction for 1000 turns or whatever it took.

Well for certain when I got my snap on long nose pliers, I really like the handles but man they were too stiff to be used reasonably in my opinion, I complained about them here and they said well. Here's the break-in process. So in a very short period of time they were working really well so I really like them.

Anyone have a "good" Dual-80 that they wanna sell me, just so I can see what the fuss is about?

I think a better question would be, does anyone live near City X that is willing to let me meet them somewhere and try them on a few things, and maybe I'll buy you lunch....

 

[jasonrohrer]

I think a better question would be, does anyone live near City X that is willing to let me meet them somewhere and try them on a few things, and maybe I'll buy you lunch....

Good thought, Ohio Andy! I'll be in Akron, OH visiting my parents in July.

I live in Dover, NH. I will buy someone lunch who wants to show me their ratchet collection.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Good thought, Ohio Andy! I'll be in Akron, OH visiting my parents in July.

I live in Dover, NH. I will buy someone lunch who wants to show me their ratchet collection.

I am in Columbus Ohio, but do not own and have never tried my snap-on ratchet. Keep thinking I should try one of their 100s. But if anyone's bored, I will happily buy you some Mexican food on the North end of Columbus..

I do own lots of other ratchets though. The latest ratchets have been made by Proto and wright tool.

 

[Rinspeed]

So if I wanted to break the Snap-On Dual-80 in, what's the procedure? Obviously, just use it, but if it's a pain to use, then it's a pain to break in, and I'd rather reach for a better-working ratchet, right?

Should I hook it to my drill press and just let it run for a minute? Kind of a goofy suggestion, but...

Also, if these "need breaking in before they get good," that seems like a manufacturing issue. Snap-on should break them in before shipping them, if that's a known issue. Like, it wouldn't be hard for them to have a machine that just ran every ratchet in each direction for 1000 turns or whatever it took.

I almost always put a cordless drill on a new ratchet and spin in both directions for 40-50 seconds. If they feel a little dry I will also throw them in a cap of ATF for a couple hours or take them apart and add some Super lube. None of the new Snap-On I've bought felt like they weren't adequately lubed though.

 

[AEAdam]

@jasonrohrer Thanks for sharing your journey with us. I’m not sure we’ve helped you much, but you’ve helped us. You have provided a perfect example of why Snap On isn’t the right answer for everyone. From your perspective, replacing a HEPA filter, your Husky ratchet worked better for you.

Its also clearer to me why Snap On is reluctant to share their truck reps with the general public. I get the sense you are not an auto mechanic. You don’t do industrial maintenance, or work on heavy machinery. You weren’t sure what you wanted, and had expectations for packaging and out of the box performance that Snap On simply could not meet. I’m with @liliysdad. I think you should return these ratchets and go back to Husky. Life is too short to spend this much energy on a tool you don’t like.

To be honest, given all this, I’m not sure what tool brand I’d recommend moving forward. As a homeowner, maybe working on woodworking machinery, household projects, not only is Snap On overkill, it may not have the right utility.

Example: I did a brutal brake job on my F150 a few weeks ago. Waterpump alternator, throttle body on my Dodge Durango a few weeks before that. I use a lot of 1/4” drive for the low torque stuff. Mid torque stuff I use 3/8” for ranges in torque from 20-150 ftlbs. This might be the sort of torque range you’d need to break in a ratchet. I need Snap On‘s high strength, and steadfast performance. Maybe it’s my type A personality or the ridiculous way I’m living my life, but I’m really not fixing cars for fun. I’m doing it to save money and when I work, I’m looking to go FAST and my tools never let me down.

For people like me, ignorant, untrained, amateurs focused on repairing equipment (vehicles), I stand by my decision to upgrade from crappy Craftsman to Snap On for just about everything. Aside from some tight pliers, I’ve never had the experience you’ve had with Snap On tools.

What I would do is disassemble that ratchet, clean out the grease with isopropyl alcohol and reassemble with SuperLube NLGI 00. But my advice has been pretty bad so far. I say return those ratchets and try Icon or a decent Taiwan tool.

 

[Ohio Andy]

What I would do is disassemble that ratchet, clean out the grease with isopropyl alcohol and reassemble with SuperLube NLGI 00.

This is what needs to be done I think.

But my advice has been pretty bad so far. I say return those ratchets and try Icon or a decent Taiwan tool.

Give me a break, point to some bad advice you have given....

 

[jasonrohrer]

Okay, she's finally here. My 3201AMW-6P Ko-Ken 3/8" drive socket set, put together special in Japan, at my request. This is the 6p version of the SAE/Metric set that normally comes in 12p only.

Jaw-dropping fit and finish, as you might expect from the 1/4" set that I posted pictures of earlier.

And the outer cardboard box has a sticker on it with the special 3201AMW-6P part number.

Even wilder, inside the lid is a sticker showing the layout of the pieces with a little legend... and not only does this sticker say 3201AMW-6P, but also the legend shows 6p sockets visually in the drawing.

There's some talk of adding this version of the set to the main catalog.

This, gentlemen, is what I call customer service.

Eats both Snap-on Dual-80 and Husky 72t for breakfast when it comes to back-drag.

For those of you who balked at the idea of an annoying plastic tray, it seems like this tray is perfect: very thick plastic, that feels like it will never break, but it doesn't "grip" any of the pieces. They just sit in there, ready to be grabbed easily. They are held in place by the lid when it's closed.

I'm 3d printing little magnetic corner feet, to keep the red metal case from getting scratched up over the years.

Feels like something worth passing to the grandchildren someday.

 

[JerseyBoatBuilder]

These tools are designed to be thrown into a metal toolbox and whacked around inside an engine bay. Maybe they feel they don’t need packing. I’ve never mail ordered a Snap On ratchet. I guess everything I’ve bought has come in sets.

I treat my tools like surgeons’ instruments, but I work pretty hard and they’ve held up well, but are not flawless. I think Nepros are the tool jewels.

Again, internet is chocked full of folks expressing their honest opinions on things they have literally no experience with. “I got this tool sent to me to review…”. I need probably a year to get to know a tool (not a socket, but maybe a ratchet, absolutely a hammer, actually sometimes a socket).

I have bought online and on quite a few tool trucks many, many times. I agree they are tools and don't come individually bubble wrapped to be put in a curio cabinet to be put on display.
OP would probably have a heart attack with brand new tool truck tool's worn from being strapped to the roof of the truck and with finger prints all over them from being handled.
I always called it truck worn.

 

[Fedwrench]

Okay, she's finally here. My 3201AMW-6P Ko-Ken 3/8" drive socket set, put together special in Japan, at my request. This is the 6p version of the SAE/Metric set that normally comes in 12p only.

Jaw-dropping fit and finish, as you might expect from the 1/4" set that I posted pictures of earlier.

And the outer cardboard box has a sticker on it with the special 3201AMW-6P part number.

Even wilder, inside the lid is a sticker showing the layout of the pieces with a little legend... and not only does this sticker say 3201AMW-6P, but also the legend shows 6p sockets visually in the drawing.

There's some talk of adding this version of the set to the main catalog.

This, gentlemen, is what I call customer service.

Eats both Snap-on Dual-80 and Husky 72t for breakfast when it comes to back-drag.

For those of you who balked at the idea of an annoying plastic tray, it seems like this tray is perfect: very thick plastic, that feels like it will never break, but it doesn't "grip" any of the pieces. They just sit in there, ready to be grabbed easily. They are held in place by the lid when it's closed.

I'm 3d printing little magnetic corner feet, to keep the red metal case from getting scratched up over the years.

Feels like something worth passing to the grandchildren someday.

Pictures of said custom set or it didn't happen

 

[cody1325]

I have bought online and on quite a few tool trucks many, many times. I agree they are tools and don't come individually bubble wrapped to be put in a curio cabinet to be put on display.
OP would probably have a heart attack with brand new tool truck tool's worn from being strapped to the roof of the truck and with finger prints all over them from being handled.
I always called it truck worn.

Yeah.

Honestly, My Mac PH2 is, ironically CLEANER than the day it left the magnetic display on the back wall of the truck. Same with its T20 brother (and I've budgeted for a T25 from the Mac guy this month, and some small Snap-On pliers from the SO guy). I don't recall ever cleaning it, either. That being said it's a "only leaves the house as necessary" tool due to the high price. Thus, it's mostly a household-use tool.

 

[Donka22]

Okay, she's finally here. My 3201AMW-6P Ko-Ken 3/8" drive socket set, put together special in Japan, at my request. This is the 6p version of the SAE/Metric set that normally comes in 12p only.

Jaw-dropping fit and finish, as you might expect from the 1/4" set that I posted pictures of earlier.

And the outer cardboard box has a sticker on it with the special 3201AMW-6P part number.

Even wilder, inside the lid is a sticker showing the layout of the pieces with a little legend... and not only does this sticker say 3201AMW-6P, but also the legend shows 6p sockets visually in the drawing.

There's some talk of adding this version of the set to the main catalog.

This, gentlemen, is what I call customer service.

Eats both Snap-on Dual-80 and Husky 72t for breakfast when it comes to back-drag.

For those of you who balked at the idea of an annoying plastic tray, it seems like this tray is perfect: very thick plastic, that feels like it will never break, but it doesn't "grip" any of the pieces. They just sit in there, ready to be grabbed easily. They are held in place by the lid when it's closed.

I'm 3d printing little magnetic corner feet, to keep the red metal case from getting scratched up over the years.

Feels like something worth passing to the grandchildren someday.

I have some of those older sets with metal cases. In fact thats the point of my reply. I have been on a kick expanding my hand tool wrenches of Mac, Matco, but my weakness is the small ratchet sets. I kave a NOS thorsen 3/8 set but its from 1980 or so, no case, a plastic shipping tray. So i scour the 'bay for old SK, Proto metal storage boxes. I use wood cigar boxes for mics , gauges and calipers. and Some of new craftsman boxes ****, but ironically i have cheap kmart , old thorsen, and a proto case thats nice. If its no wonder cheap is the new norm. People will pay a few dollars more for a real case.

 

[Donka22]

What’s the definition of nicer? Is paying $400.00 for a set of snapon wrenches nicer? Do they do the job better?
Here is a craftsman and proto wrench next to a gearwrench and husky. The fit and finish of the husky and the gearwrench is better than proto and craftsman. My craftsman and proto set are over thirty years old( made in U.S.). The low end Gearwrench and husky fit and finish are way better than the proto and craftsman. Some people forget how bad American made tools 30 years ago looked compared to today’s standards. Low end tools today are way better than American big brand name tools 30 years ago. I have a snapon set that look like the craftsman and proto, I couldn’t include a wrench in the photo because my kid has them working on his car.

Doing a engine pull with Snap On wrenches and my favorite Matco set from the 90s it really is better overall. They fit in tighter spots, tighter on the bolts and easy to clean vs. a old set of crapsmans. Hard to explain, but its a bit easier. You are spot on about the finish and quality of affordable tools today, milwaukee, husky even pittsburg aint bad.

 

[Donka22]

OK I really should be cooking dinner right now as I am starving, but the service set reminded me I just picked up one of those metal boxes at an estate sale. I wonder how much Snap On I could find to fill it??? Of course different eras, fonts, date codes, but I came pretty close. with a bit of improper arrangements I can get a flex head in the box.

Thats my latest obsession..ebay vintage usa tools and homemade tool sets. I have an obsession for Thorsens (Powr Kraft) , and Rem Line boxes. Maybe since they were mfd im Dallas. Also, pLomb (proto) and challenger are in my hoard and growing.

 

[dscheidt]

Don’t take this the wrong way. Instead of trying another ratchet, do some work with the ratchets you have and see how they perform for the intended purpose.

********. Utter ********. For what snap-on gets for these things, they should work perfectly out of the box. Anything else is unacceptable. Note, i'm not talking cosmetics, I'm talking actual function.

 

[AEAdam]

********. Utter ********. For what snap-on gets for these things, they should work perfectly out of the box. Anything else is unacceptable. Note, i'm not talking cosmetics, I'm talking actual function.

With the greatest respect to the OP, I’m not convinced we’re discussing Snap On ratchet performance, but rather one man’s thoughts on his tool expectations, which Snap On didn’t meet.

There are many many GJ members who prefer snap on T72 ratchets and find them to be outstanding. Are we to believe the T72 has suddenly gone downhill? Or that the OP received 2 quality escapes?

My take above is that Snap On tools obviously may not meet everyone’s expectations. Viva la difference.

Here’s what I learned and am appreciative for: while I like my snap on tools, while they work for me, while they excel in tests, they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.

 

[finn]

I think you need to re-read my post.

I’ll quote Bonneyman’s post, which I was responding to “ When Craftsman was sold to the Chinese….”
Craftsman was sold, but it was to SBD. Craftsman tools were made globally long before the name was sold by Sears to another American company, SBD.

The company in your user name / moniker, CAT, produces machines globally including in China. My son works for Cat in the US, but the parts he is responsible are designed and produced in China and Mexico, and that’s where his team members are located. The systems are used in machines produced in multiple countries, including the US, but by your twisted definition, that would make Cat a Chinese or Mexican company, since those components come from China and Mexico.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

Upgraded wrenches, sockets, and ratchets to SO over many years when started to work more on vehicles. Easier on the budget spreading it over time

 

[AJHD]

I’ll quote Bonneyman’s post, which I was responding to “ When Craftsman was sold to the Chinese….”
Craftsman was sold, but it was to SBD. Craftsman tools were made globally long before the name was sold by Sears to another American company, SBD.

The company in your user name / moniker, CAT, produces machines globally including in China. My son works for Cat in the US, but the parts he is responsible are designed and produced in China and Mexico, and that’s where his team members are located. The systems are used in machines produced in multiple countries, including the US, but by your twisted definition, that would make Cat a Chinese or Mexican company, since those components come from China and Mexico.

I'm confused what the hell you're talking about. What "twisted definition"?

Below is quoted directly from my 1st post. I think reading comprehension is seriously lacking in this thread.

Since this seems to be difficult to understand, all I said was COO does NOT dictate if the company/brand is Chinese or Mexican or whatever/whoever else.

Using your example, CAT is NOT a Chinese or Mexican brand/company because they manufacture components outside of the US, anymore than Craftsman or SB&D is an offshore brand/company.

Being owned by the Chinese/a Chinese company is different then a company that manufacturers globally

 

[liliysdad]

With the greatest respect to the OP, I’m not convinced we’re discussing Snap On ratchet performance, but rather one man’s thoughts on his tool expectations, which Snap On didn’t meet.

There are many many GJ members who prefer snap on T72 ratchets and find them to be outstanding. Are we to believe the T72 has suddenly gone downhill? Or that the OP received 2 quality escapes?

My take above is that Snap On tools obviously may not meet everyone’s expectations. Viva la difference.

Here’s what I learned and am appreciative for: while I like my snap on tools, while they work for me, while they excel in tests, they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.

Absolutely. The fact that the majority of the creators attention has been toward fit, finish, packaging, and customer service indicates that the appearance and “feel” of the tool is of higher importance to him that the tool itself.

Not a damned thing wrong with that, everyone has their priorities.