Thoughts on Air Line Setup

[floyd]

Can I get some feedback on this layout? Sorry for the crude drawing.

I'm running copper lines. No need to bring up pvc Filter system is about 40' from the compressor. I'm only putting in two drops, one for the blasting cabinet and one for the air hose reel. I want to put the moisture trap just prior to the blasting cabinet drop. The hose reel drop is about 6 feet further down the line.

Can I get away with just one moisture trap, or do I need another for the hose reel?

Thanks!!!

 

[Torque1st]

I believe you will be fine with your proposed setup. You might want to put a dripleg before the coalescing filter to drain off as much water from the 40' run as possible before the filter.

What are the other two items shown in your air line?

 

[floyd]

Crappy drawing I know. I'm thinking about the combo moisture filter/particulate filter/regulator set up (something like the one in the attached picture). Other than that, just the blast cabinet and hose reel. The drops for each of those would have a cut-off valve prior to the connection for the cabinet/hose reel and a drain valve at the end.

 

[floyd]

Torque1st - On the dripleg you're recommending, should it just come off a T-fitting? Or should I do one of those up and over deals like shown on the other drops?

 

[35mastr]

I would do it rite off of a T.

 

[PurdueSD]

I pretty much did exactly what you are planning only with black iron. I used two separate separators though. It has worked very well for me. There are more pictures in my build thread if you are interested. Here is what my drops look like...

 

[PurdueSD]

p.s. scour ebay for separators. I was patient and scored 2 smc regulators for about 25 bucks. New they would have cost like 70-80 bucks a piece.

 

[nate379]

Why not just run straight down off the T instead of going up and then down?

 

[Torque1st]

Torque1st - On the dripleg you're recommending, should it just come off a T-fitting? Or should I do one of those up and over deals like shown on the other drops?

I would run it off a T straight down. In this case you WANT water in the pipe.

Nate: A normal air line drop off the main line is turned up and then down the wall to separate the condensate from the airstream.

Only use a regulator where you absolutely must have one. Most tools are specified for 90PSI air but that is just a common specification point. They will operate even better with higher pressure up to a maximum that may be specified in the literature or ~130PSI. They will also operate well on 70PSI air just with slightly reduced power. About the only place you really need a regulator is for painting.

Two Stage Compressor:
If you have a two stage compressor turn the pressure control down to 120PSI and only turn it up when you need higher pressure to fill truck tires or HD blasting. If your pressure control is non-adjustable you can get a second unit and wire it through a switch (HI/LO) or just get an adjustable one to replace your present unit.

 

[floyd]

Great advise - thanks again. I have a single stage compressor and do not plan on doing any serious painting - maybe a touch-up gun for shooting small chassis components and the like. I will use the blasting cabinet a bit, but just for my own resto projects. I've never had air tools but look forward to trying some. There again, probably only infrequent use.

Sounds like I don't need the regulator then. Do I just need a moisture seperator or is the particulate filter a good idea too?

Nice looking setup Perdue - I'll checkout your other threads

 

[nate379]

I've never done that and never had problems with water in the air lines.

Nate: A normal air line drop off the main line is turned up and then down the wall to separate the condensate from the airstream.

 

[PurdueSD]

I've never done that and never had problems with water in the air lines.

Nate, its all dependent on how you slope you mainline. My mainline is 50 feet long or so, all pitched back towards a drip leg back at the compressor. Moisture settles out of the air best with an extended mainline. As the moisture settles out and runs down the pitch, it doesn't end up in the previous drop...it runs all the way back to a drip leg at the compressor. Less chance for the moisture to end up in my tools, gun, blaster etc.

Was I being a little overly **** when i came up with the design? Sure...but isnt that why we are all here? We all have OCD to some extent...hah!

Not a single issue with moisture for me either!

 

[Torque1st]

Great advise - thanks again. I have a single stage compressor and do not plan on doing any serious painting - maybe a touch-up gun for shooting small chassis components and the like. I will use the blasting cabinet a bit, but just for my own resto projects. I've never had air tools but look forward to trying some. There again, probably only infrequent use.

Sounds like I don't need the regulator then. Do I just need a moisture seperator or is the particulate filter a good idea too?

Nice looking setup Perdue - I'll checkout your other threads

You will probably be just fine with just the coalescing filter.

For painting just use a filter & regulator plugged into an air outlet when needed.

Nate, standard time-tested practice for air distribution systems:
http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf
Keep in mind this company also sells a lot of air tools and equipment.
http://www.tptools.com/

 

[e-tek]

Perdue's system is the "high-standard" for eliminating water in air systems. Being **** means having it done EXACLTY right in this case!

Having said that, you may or may not need up and overs. As Torque said, a long run tipped back to the compressor will consdense the warm air enough and kkep it from getting to the exit line.

I have a mix of all these set-ups in my system: the air-line at the end of the longest run has no drop or filter. The line going to my lift has an up and over config. The line to my blaster and paint hose has both up and overs, plus a dessicant dryer and 3 micron filter - it's here that I want 100% dry air.

 

[walrus]

Two Stage Compressor:
If you have a two stage compressor turn the pressure control down to 120PSI and only turn it up when you need higher pressure to fill truck tires or HD blasting. If your pressure control is non-adjustable you can get a second unit and wire it through a switch (HI/LO) or just get an adjustable one to replace your present unit.

Thats a pretty good idea, I have an old Wayne thats set to 175 and I really don't need it that high. I find myself using my little dayton more as its quieter. When trying to hit 175 that old Wayne gets a wee bit noisy

 

[nate379]

Maybe I don't use air enough, I dunno.

Reading this made me think I haven't drained my compressor in a few years so I just went and checked. Had maybe 1/4 cup of water come out.

 

[Duker]

In addition to the other great ideas offered you might consider using a "drive shaft" which is what auto painters (painted cars to put myself through school) used to use to start to trap water from the tank before the drops etc. You can use a 2 1/2"+ galvanized pipe with the air line coming in at the bottom and exiting at the top. If you connect it to copper be sure to use an dielectric fitting to avoid corrosion. Here is a picture of one of the traps running to a hose reel used for tires etc.. There are no other filters on this line and I rarely get any moisture which for Houston in the middle of the summer is saying something. The volume and length of the pipe is enough to trap the condenstation.

I need to redo this one however as I didn't leave enough room at the bottom from the incoming air line to capture a lot of moisture so I need to drain it every two to three days during the most humid periods.

 

[Torque1st]

Maybe I don't use air enough, I dunno.

Reading this made me think I haven't drained my compressor in a few years so I just went and checked. Had maybe 1/4 cup of water come out.

That makes it obvious you don't use much air. No real need for an air distribution system, just an air hose would do fine.

 

[Torque1st]

In addition to the other great ideas offered you might consider using a "drive shaft" which is what auto painters (painted cars to put myself through school) used to use to start to trap water from the tank before the drops etc. You can use a 2 1/2"+ galvanized pipe with the air line coming in at the bottom and exiting at the top. If you connect it to copper be sure to use an dielectric fitting to avoid corrosion. Here is a picture of one of the traps running to a hose reel used for tires etc.. There are no other filters on this line and I rarely get any moisture which for Houston in the middle of the summer is saying something. The volume and length of the pipe is enough to trap the condenstation.

I need to redo this one however as I didn't leave enough room at the bottom from the incoming air line to capture a lot of moisture so I need to drain it every two to three days during the most humid periods.

I have one of those large diameter pipe ******* on my tank drain to provide extra volume for condensate. It keeps the water from sitting in the bottom of the tank.

 

[nate379]

Well kinda sorta. The compressor is in my shed and it's piped underground to my garage, 150ft of hose.

That makes it obvious you don't use much air. No real need for an air distribution system, just an air hose would do fine.

 

[djmartins]

Two Stage Compressor:
If you have a two stage compressor turn the pressure control down to 120PSI and only turn it up when you need higher pressure to fill truck tires or HD blasting.

Aren't you destroying the efficiency of the two stage pump by doing this?
Your tank hold more air (which is more power) at 175 pis which is why the make the things.
You might as well disconnect two of the spark plug wires on your v8 car engine because it doesn't really NEED to fire on all 8 cylinders.....

 

[Torque1st]

Well kinda sorta. The compressor is in my shed and it's piped underground to my garage, 150ft of hose.

Yeah, I remember the discussion on that now.

 

[Torque1st]

Aren't you destroying the efficiency of the two stage pump by doing this?
Your tank hold more air (which is more power) at 175 pis which is why the make the things.
You might as well disconnect two of the spark plug wires on your v8 car engine because it doesn't really NEED to fire on all 8 cylinders.....

Ahhh, no...

Do some research.

 

[59 wagon man]

just my .02 i treat airlines like steam lines and pitch away from the source . been running steam pipe for years when i lived up north. if you pitch away the condensate can run along the bottom while the air can run along the top . if you pitch towards the source the air will constantly try to push the condensate causing turbulense and moistuire. here in south florida we have high humidity but i never have a drop out of my air hoses even if i dont have a filter or drier on the line

 

[dude67]

I have seen a system that runs from the corner to corner diagonally on the longest wall. With a drain at bottom of run to help the water run. Long tap up to the top of wall to get farther away from the water. Plus all the moisture and particle filter traps. It seem to work great.

 

[Torque1st]

just my .02 i treat airlines like steam lines and pitch away from the source . been running steam pipe for years when i lived up north. if you pitch away the condensate can run along the bottom while the air can run along the top . if you pitch towards the source the air will constantly try to push the condensate causing turbulense and moistuire. here in south florida we have high humidity but i never have a drop out of my air hoses even if i dont have a filter or drier on the line

Very good info. That diagram I posted shows that slope direction. Years ago the diagram was wrong but they have corrected it.

 

[Cobra6]

I think I am going to do this with a Puvex kit -
http://www.summitracing.com/experta...cb1-9b21-ce9917022f00&storygroup=techarticles

Has anyone used the Puvex hose and fittings? It almost seems to easy.

 

[PontiacFan]

I think I am going to do this with a Puvex kit -
http://www.summitracing.com/experta...cb1-9b21-ce9917022f00&storygroup=techarticles

Has anyone used the Puvex hose and fittings? It almost seems to easy.

No I haven't used Puvex, & Yes it should be very easy.
I deal in push-to-connect fittings all the time & generally they are pretty foolproof.
Keep in mind, if you are going clear around the shop like their sample diagram shows, it'd be a much better system if it was a full loop around the outside if possible.

 

[Torque1st]

Man, we just can't escape a thread invasion from the plastic people. We were doing so well too.

Plastic products are used in industrial setups where the air is already dry or on machines but they are not good for home compressor setups. Use steel or brazed copper.

 

[e-tek]

Man, we just can't escape a thread invasion from the plastic people. We were doing so well too.

Plastic products are used in industrial setups where the air is already dry or on machines but they are not good for home compressor setups. Use steel or brazed copper.

Agree with everything you say except this. No reason not to use plastic in a home shop setting - they are marketed for this. If you slope properly and/or use any of a number of dryer set-ups you'd be fine.

 

[Torque1st]

e-tek, I know you are a plastic person but just because those kits are 'marketed' for that purpose does not mean they are good or right. Lots of things are 'marketed' including snake oil elixir and pet rocks. I have specified and used miles of plastic tubing where it is appropriate.

 

[Cobra6]

Sorry - didn't mean to invade your pipe setup with plastic. I will open a separate thread on Puvex just for plastic people.

 

[rmuell01]

Torque1st,

there's a lot of info here, so I'd like to get my facts straight.

the pipe slants at ~ -10 degrees from horizontal. the media blaster has a desiccant filter and a water separator.

multiple drains.

air whip and in-line oiler for tools.

Thanks

Rob

 

[Torque1st]

You only need about 1/16" per foot slope. The air itself helps move the water along as long as there is some slope.

Your drawing is good enough to understand. I do have one question. Where is your inline oiler or lubricator?

A regulator at a normal blaster is probably a waste. If you need to throttle the line the ball valve pictured will work. Most of the time your problems will be not enough air volume and velocity so adding a regulator to reduce both is counterproductive. A coalescing filter air/water separator may provide enough water removal for the blaster. A desiccant filter with a bypass and isolation valves may be needed at times depending on your local conditions.

A plug-in filter regulator is probably only needed occasionally. The rest of the time you are probably going to be blowing things off, filling tires, or running air tools where no filter or regulator is needed.

 

[Daddy_Rabbit]

Sorry - didn't mean to invade your pipe setup with plastic. I will open a separate thread on Puvex just for plastic people.

pay him no mind ... no one else does.

 

[Torque1st]

Nobody pays rabbit or trolls any mind either.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

We have had problems with some machines in our plant from "dirty air" from black pipe. So we added Aqua check filter at each machine. This helped some so we had to run a line to the machines with plastic tubing to fix the problem. I can't remember the specs, just that it was for air lines. ADV. Pressure 160 psi.

No problems for 6 years!

Also have had problems with copper. The flux and loose solder jacking with the paint booth and impacts. This was in 1988 when the air filter were junk.


2300 series
PUVEX TUBING

PUVEX TUBING


You no longer need polyurethane, nylon and polyethylene tubing.
Puvex tubing combines the flexibility of polyurethane straight
tubing with the strength, flexibility, and maximum working
pressure of nylon straight tubing and costs only pennies more
than polyethylene. Puvex has the same abrasion resistant properties
of polyethylene, nylon and polyurethane. Remains flexible
even at extreme temperatures of –40° F to +175° F. Use with
Milton push to connect fittings (See pages 77-79). Many uses: air
lines, instrumentation, pneumatic circuitry, chemical processing,
food & beverage dispensing, refrigeration, high pressure gas,
vacuum-water-chemical products, and robotics.

- Maximum working pressure:

1/4” 125 PSI
5/16” 75 PSI
3/8” 100 PSI


- Temperature range: -40° F to 175° F


From https://www.miltonindustries.com/uploads/Page_81.pdf



Capt. Chrysler

 

[Torque1st]

That is way down the line from the compressor. I have used miles of plastic tubing in that situation also. I did not hard plumb pneumatic assy machines either. Knowing what is good where and specifying safely is why they employ the application engineers.

Various materials have their applications but nothing is universal.

I have heard good things about AquaChek filters.

 

[djmartins]

Ahhh, no...

Do some research.

I have and I'll stick with 175psi as the machine was designed for.....

 

[daveroy]

Just so I'm clear, The reason against plastic in a home/hobby shop setup is because the plastic wont absorb/disperse enough heat to help in drying the compressed air. Right? So no one is arguing that the plastic (the stuff built for air! not PVC!) wont or cant be used for the reason it was intended or marketed. Just that home shops need all the help they can get as far as water separation goes.