Thoughts on Cincinnati Mill...

[escuchopeliculas]

Hello all,

So I went to look at a few machines that are for sale locally and I need some input...

First some background, I'm running somewhat of a job shop at this point. The focus was motorcycles and bike restoration but I'm taking on all sorts of small design jobs and like the direction work is heading. I have very limited machining experience but I don't have a problem putting in the hours at the handles in order to learn.

I'm getting good with my small 6" CMan lathe but right now it's down for upgrades...

I want to add a mill to the shop and I've been looking for a good drill press for a while but nothing had come up.

The guy I met today is selling the contents of his father's shop. Of interest to me are:

A XXXX Barnes (I'm guessing W.F. & John Barnes but didn't see the whole name) floor drill press. The huge, belted, old kind. I'm guessing it was 7 or 8 feet tall.

A huge hydraulic press. Swedish made, manual pump. I didn't get a look at the data plate but the gauge went up to 60 tons.

A Cincinnati No. 2 horizontal mill. Much older than what I'm used to seeing. Here's a picture:

The mill comes with the dividing head and TONS of tooling. Off the top of my head is included a tub with over 400 circular cutters.

Machinery here in Mexico is expensive. The deals some of you guys get on old machinery in good condition are unimaginable (well used bridgeports with no bells nor whistles start at around 3k US). There is also very little in terms of small and medium sized machinery...

Sooooo....

I know that the mill is over kill for me as is the press (I'm in love with the drill press but that in neither here nor there).

More than the overkill, what worries me is actually using the machine. Can I use that mill like a vertical one without an attachment, or is the use it gets going to be limited to cutting gears and similar (very industrial specific) uses? What if I get an attachment? Or can I?

Is the machine too old? It's well taken care of and hasn't been abused but for the money am I better off looking for something else?

Supposedly everything was running and in use up until April when the shop shut down.

The guy is looking for around 30k (US) for the lot. Tooling would be included as would hand tools, etc. I don't have that kind of scratch right now but considering the amount of tooling it doesn't seem too inflated... IF IT GETS PUT TO USE... Then again I might be off my rocker and he's trying to get cozy with my orifices....

I realize that going big and having all that tooling makes your machining possibilities endless but if you never have to make that unimaginable part then there's no point. No?

Sorry for the long post,

thoughts?

Thanks

Andrea

 

[zkling]

Machinery here in Mexico is expensive. The deals some of you guys get on old machinery in good condition are unimaginable (well used bridgeports with no bells nor whistles start at around 3k US). There is also very little in terms of small and medium sized machinery...

The guy is looking for around 30k (US) for the lot. Tooling would be included as would hand tools, etc.

$30K for those 3 machines?




Ok I had to pick myself up off the floor. Thank the Lord I do not live in Mexico. I thought things were cheaper down there? Are those prices dare I say competitive with other machines in your location?

A big horizontal mill can be very handy for slotting, and removing alot of material. Cincinnai made some real good ones. However for the job shop, they are not nearly as versatile as the more common vertical spindle knee mill. Horizontal milling cutters as pictured are very expensive to purchase new. Sadly the owner chose about the worst way to store those, all banging together in one box. So he may have 400+ of them, but the question is which ones are still useable and thus have actual value?

Yes, you can find and fit vertical milling heads to horizontal machines. Commonly called "universal" heads. But they are typically not as versatile as a common bridgport type machine. It also looks like the hydraulic feed motors have been stripped off that mill.

 

[DocsMachine]

I also live in something of a machine-tool desert, so I can understand the situation.

However, unless prices in your area are way different, $30K is absolutely absurd.

Even up here in Alaska, where all those machines would be worth 20% to 50% more than they would in the lower 48 states, the drill, if in working condition, might be worth $500. The press, again, if it works and has some tooling (press plates and the like) maybe $1K to $2500. That's kind of stretching it, as a powered 80-tonner has been posted to the local CL multiple times for $5K.

The horizontal mill, with all the accessories, might go for $3K. Maybe a tad more if the "lots of tooling" is truly impressive. Especially if it includes a full set of change gears for that indexer- the indexer, drive linkage (seen below the end of the table) and a reasonably complete set of changewheels and plates would be, by themselves, worth $1,000 to $2,000 in the States.

So on the way outside, most-optimistic estimate, you're looking at maybe as much as $6,000 for everything. For $30K, you could afford to drive a truck into the US, buy a trailer, buy a couple of machine tools in the styles you want, haul them home and still have $15,000 to $18,000 left over. (Depending, of course, on what it'd cost to get them imported past the border, which I admit might be bureaucratically expensive.)

Doc.

 

[larry_g]

My first thought looking through the pictures is that someone should be shot for throwing all those cutters in a box like that...That mill as pictured looks to have been cared for. With the dividing head, vise, arbors and in good operating condition could bring $4000. There should be a box of gears with that setup for doing helical work. An old barns camelback DP should be under $2k and the press under $1k. $30k sounds like a lot for what you have described but you have not shown the whole picture of everything so it is harde to judge. Is the $30k for just the three tools or for the whole shop contents?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[escuchopeliculas]

The 30k would be for the shop contents (almost). I'd be leaving behind a HUGE russian shaper and related tooling and a few other things but tooling, big twist drills, hand tools, metrology stuff etc. would be in the deal.

My theory on the absurd prices here has to do with the fact that we have very little in terms of companies that make or made machinery here. Most of the old stuff you see around are machines that I believe came into Mexico during the 50's - 70's. Already used in the states and Europe.

Another aspect is that being a metric country it was probably more logical to bring in european machines. There are many for sale but also, huge and expensive.

Also, we **** at taking care of stuff so stuff tends to age/ wear out faster...

 

[rsanter]

That is a nice mill but not as versatile as a Bport type of mill
To me that index head and tailstock is worth as much as the mill itself
You are looking at about $500 each as the horizontals are just not very desirable to most people looking

The cutters being that they are for a horizontal are going to bring about $10 each and some you will not be able to sell as they will be considered oddball

The drill press is too old to be desirable to most people. It's worth $200 to $400 depending on condition

The most desirable thing is the press. That should get between $600 and $1000

$30k us is way high. I would look at the guy funny if he asked me for more than $5000

Bob

 

[escuchopeliculas]

Thanks guys. You reaffirmed my suspicions...

Gotta keep looking