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Thoughts on Festool Products.

coolreed

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A few years ago I started noticing Festool products at the local Woodcrafters. After picking myself off the floor after seeing the price tag, I wondered why are these people paying so much for a very awkward looking drill? Or sander? This seems rediculous. I really thought to myself this was some kind of clique tool. I was not going to get caught up in that.

Keep in mind I have not drank the green koolaid,...yet. But I kept seeing more and more of these devices. So I started looking a little deeper, and recently I was able to use a few Festool items like the Track Saw and Domino Joiner.

Now I am starting to see the value in certain Festool tools. If I was a professional carpenter or cabinet maker I would not hesitate. But I am just a Woodworking Hobbyist. That being said,..I am considering purchasing the Track Saw, Domino Joiner and CT-36 Vacuum. I am not drinking to whole green kool aid pitcher but I am starting to take a gulp.

What are some of your thoughts regarding Festool Tools?

:3gears:
 
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paranoid56

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there are a few threads on this already, but i am there with you on the track saw. thinking about replacing my folding rigid table saw for one of those.
 

boiler7904

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there are a few threads on this already, but i am there with you on the track saw. thinking about replacing my folding rigid table saw for one of those.

Tracksaws are great and can be more accurate than a regular circular saw with straightedge but they won't do everything a table saw will do. You aren't going to cut dadoes or rabbets, accurately crosscut (unless you buy accessories for the track saw), and so on. Joinery such as tenons and box tenons isn't going to happen either. A tracksaw is a supplement to the tools you already own or a way to hold off buying a table saw until finances allow and needs increase.

I've had the DeWalt version for a few years and use it to to cut sheet goods and rip the occasional board (prior to inheriting a portable table saw last fall). There are times I wish I bought the Festool but overall I'm happy with it. DeWalt accessory availability is the real downfall of their system currently.
 

strutaeng

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I have the regular domino joiner and the CT36 vacumm. Festool are awesome.

I have recently sold my table saw due to downsizing and space constraints. I will consider a Festool track saw in the future; I have learned hand tool skills in the last few years (mortise & tenon, dovetails, etc.) so my table saw was only used for ripping lumber and sheets.

Bottom line: once you buy a Festool you understand the value, the high upfront cost will be easily forgotten.

Good luck.
 

tarbellb

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If you can justify or afford the cost Festool is a excellent product. Not sure if ive come across anybody yet who wasnt totally satisfied with their Festool purchase. The same cant be said about other brands.

You nailed it with the products you choose. The vac system, Domino, and Track saw are their highlight list. That and Systainer system.
 

mikefromme

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I've got the track saw, a vac, domino and MFT table... Track saw are invaluable for chopping plywood to size and quickly making long taper and compound taper cuts. Cabinet saw quality that you can easily bring with you. Perfect for hanging doors in out of plumb, square and level openings.

The MFT table is also very useful. But the best tool is the domino; not cheap but nothing else does what it does.

Yeah, I am fanboy... Even though I had to send the track saw back after I burned it up. The saw was well used but not abused and let the magic smoke out after a 18 months of regular use.
 
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volleyball

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Does the tracksaw have a strong motor? I have some soapstone to cut and I need a straight edge and 1 shot to do it.
 

ez-duzit

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Though I have 4 table saws, the Festool track saw has revolutionized my shop, and is irreplaceable. A most excellent tool.
 

RKA

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They are expensive, and the upfront price is only scratching the surface. Add the consumables and accessories needed and you're at 2x's the original price or more. It's tough to justify, especially when there are so many other options on the market.

But there are a few areas where I think they excel.
1. Dust collection - the tool companies have long ignored this, and slowly people are becoming more aware of how hazardous inhaling sawdust can be. I suspect in the next 10-20 years dust collection will not be a feature, it will be the norm. Meanwhile, every one of their saw dust tools can be fitted with dust extraction using standardized port sizes. You don't need to cobble adapters together to make things work. You pay for this.

2. Portability and space - Their tools designed to travel, as such, you can find ways to do most things with them that you might ordinarily do with free standing tools. If you don't have the space for free standing machinery, Festool might be able to fill the void without taking over your entire shop. It's not necessarily cheaper than the stand alone tools and sometimes it takes more set up time and creativity, but you would be surprised. You pay for this.

3. Ecosystem - some of the tools are designed to work together, so are the accessories. Take the MFT...it's a worktable (an expensive one), a clamping table (an expensive one), and a cutting table (an expensive one). Using the grid pattern and a few accessories and the track saw you can make dead accurate 90 degree cuts. If you had the extensions for the kapex miter saw, you can also put them on the MFT for outfeed support. Or buy another MFT table and join them to have a bigger (more expensive) table.

4. Quality - they are built better than most power tools out there. Their engineers look at a tool and ask how they can make it better, where other companies seemed more focused on how they can cheapen a product without it going noticed. You pay for this.

5. Precision - Their tools are designed with a craftsman in mind. Need to move that dado 0.1mm over, no problem! You pay for this.

If they didn't have a place in this world because they priced themselves out, they would be out of business. The truth is, they are doing quite well, even on this side of the pond where we insist on using imperial measurements. There must be something to their tools. If you have an open mind and are willing to try a few of their tools, you'll start to see how they can make your life easier. Yes, I drank the kool aid 8 months ago when I got the track saw and dust extractor. I hmm'd and haw'd over the purchase and finally decided I just wanted to get a job done and this would be a good test for it. I still struggle with each additional purchase, right down to the drill - a purchase I will admit was an indulgence, because it's just a drill. Even that surprised me! I can modulate the speed and power through the trigger better than any of my other drills. Final torque on every screw was always done by hand, because I never felt a power tool gives you that precise control. The C15 drill changed my mind. I'm gonna pay for that. You might too.

The single biggest drawback, in case you hadn't picked up on it, the price. The second, that price creates very high expectations. Has Festool disappointed me, sure. But I tend to criticize them for things I would never expect of another tool manufacturer - "if I can have a micro adjust on the bevel, why couldn't they give me a micro adjust on the miter???".

So that's my spin on it. If you have the luxury of setting aside price, give their tools a try. Don't just hold them in the store, take 'em home and give them a workout. If you're not happy, send it back. If you are, then wrestle with the price and whether there is still value in it for you. Nobody on some internet forum is going to answer that question for you, it's something you have to figure out for yourself. That's my $0.05.
 

William Payne

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I was very surprised recently regarding Festool. I watch alot of "This old house" and seeing them using Festool made me get all wide eyed and excited.

Not being a pro I often thought that yeah they would be nice but not in the budget.

However I recently have been looking up woodworking tools as I have some projects coming up. I was looking at sliding compound mitre saws and looking at the prices of milwaukee and dewalt and others I was very surprised to find that the festool equivelent is only a few hundred dollars more. Yes that is still a fair chunk of change but I am highly considering looking at the festool for my future projects.

My logic is they are a good brand but my other logic is that when I finish my projects I could still get a good resale price should I not need it any more.

I am not sure if I will buy one but am considering it.
 
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coolreed

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Well after using a friends Festool Tracksaw I was impressed. Now it will not replace a Table saw but it is worth the price. Combine that with the Festool Vacuum and you have a winner. I will order one soon.

Another Festool product I like is the (forgot the Festool name, doh!) domino plate joiner they offer. It is a game changer, in my opinion. Much better than a biscuit joiner. It is almost $1000.00 without extra dominos. But considering what you can make with it and the time it will save you. It is worth it.

I do not see the value in their drills.

Festool orbitol sanders are supposed to awesome, but I would like to try one out before I have to cash in my 401k to buy one. :lol:
 

cheechi

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The offset & right angle accessories are nice if you want one motor with accessories vs owning a few (one of the cheapest woodworking power tools) drills to gain access. Personally I would not buy the Festool drill unless they had a few 'must have' tools in their 18v lineup. Right now it's just the drill and a fairly well reviewed light. Not enough cost effectiveness to buy into that setup.

The domino is supposed to be pretty nice. Can you give as much detail as possible, how it's better than a regular biscuit joiner? I have been really interested in hearing a non-marketing comparison between them.

I feel the same way as you about the TS55 except for one thing. In 'building' one with the various kits available, though I'm sure some are better than others, you can get 99% of what their track saw can do. The main exception is the plunge action. You have a regular circ saw with its action instead of the spring loaded 'chop' motion of the Festool. Certainly functional enough for me considering the difference in price.
 
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danski0224

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I do not see the value in their drills.

Then you haven't used one. I have a C12.

The drill has an ECM (brushless) motor. That in and of itself is no longer unique.

What *is* special is the drill will maintain the selected RPM as the fastener is driven (you do not have to squeeze the trigger further to maintain speed as the fastener is driven), up to the protection limit of the tool. That touches on the other feature: the drill will not allow itself to be overloaded.

The eccentric and 90* adapters are awesome. There is *nothing* else like them.

The C series drills have a sort of "bash guard" for your hand. There are magnets to hold extra bits.

For stuff like cabinet installation and furniture assembly, there is no better drill.
 

danski0224

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What are some of your thoughts regarding Festool Tools?

Festool is made in Germany (worker wages, environmental laws), not China (not so much of either). They do not take shortcuts to cheapen a product. That should explain the price difference.

If DeWalt made their yellow tools in the USA or Makita moved production back to Japan, pricing would be similar.

Festool dust collection is second to none. That is important for those that do interior work.

Festool is a system. Stuff is made to work together.

There is a growing cottage industry of companies/people that make accessories for Festool products. There are several non-Festool makers of quality sawblades for the Kapex and track saws. Seneca Woodworking makes several items for the Domino.

The track saw can also use the track with the holes in it for the router.

Try out a Festool sander. The dust collection is unbelievable. Want to use it all day without going numb? Fine, go ahead. The 5" Rotex can take off a lot of material very quickly, or not so much with the flip of a switch. Sand drywall with a DTS400 and have almost no dust? No problem.

The MFT is a very versatile portable precision workbench. There are "knockoffs" and "interpretations" of the design that also work, depending on what you want out of a work table.

If Festool had a tablesaw available in the USA market, I'd probably buy it tomorrow.

The initial purchase price is only part of the equation. You pay to use poor or cheap tools every time you use them.

If I was to have a small beef about the stuff I have, it is that the detachable power cords are not the same. For the extra Euro or two, they should have picked the largest tool and used that cord and plugs on everything else.
 
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danski0224

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Does the tracksaw have a strong motor? I have some soapstone to cut and I need a straight edge and 1 shot to do it.

You (probably) won't be able to cut it in one pass.

Set up the track, clamp it down, and make multiple 1/8" passes with the saw.

Get the TS75: stronger motor and deeper cut. More blades available.
 

RKA

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If there is a sander to try, I think it's the ETS 150/3 or /5 with the Granat paper. I'll typically nudge the sander by the plug it cord attachment with 2 or 3 fingers to guide it around the work piece and it does the work.
 

danski0224

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I feel the same way as you about the TS55 except for one thing. In 'building' one with the various kits available, though I'm sure some are better than others, you can get 99% of what their track saw can do. The main exception is the plunge action. You have a regular circ saw with its action instead of the spring loaded 'chop' motion of the Festool. Certainly functional enough for me considering the difference in price.

The Festool tracksaws also have a riving knife. The track "kits" don't have that.

You give up cut depth with the "kits" unless you get the 8.25" circular saw. The Festool track is only 5mm thick. The 8.25" circular saws are not lightweight.

Cut depth and angle can be set quickly and *precisely* with the Festool track saws. Can't do that with the kits.

The kits have their place, but they are no comparison.

The domino is supposed to be pretty nice. Can you give as much detail as possible, how it's better than a regular biscuit joiner? I have been really interested in hearing a non-marketing comparison between them.

Precision and strength.

http://blog.festoolusa.com/post/2012/06/28/The-Ultimate-Festool-Domino-Guide.aspx
 
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cheechi

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Ok well let me rephrase. As someone who got used to having access to a real panel saw, I built myself a track saw out of a Bosch 18v circ saw and the Woodcraft kit. In addition to being able to get the same cut as the Festool, I can also buy more plates and make this work with my router, another circ saw if I change platforms or need it for a corded saw, jigsaw, etc.

No it isn't perfect, it's not 'as good' as the Festool, but I can achieve the same end result with an appropriate use of my time and effort. In this same sense, the Festool track saw is not 'as good' as a panel saw by a wide margin either.
 

danski0224

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Ok well let me rephrase. As someone who got used to having access to a real panel saw, I built myself a track saw out of a Bosch 18v circ saw and the Woodcraft kit. In addition to being able to get the same cut as the Festool, I can also buy more plates and make this work with my router, another circ saw if I change platforms or need it for a corded saw, jigsaw, etc.

No it isn't perfect, it's not 'as good' as the Festool, but I can achieve the same end result with an appropriate use of my time and effort. In this same sense, the Festool track saw is not 'as good' as a panel saw by a wide margin either.

Festool has bits and pieces to make their track system work with routers and jigsaws too. These bits and pieces typically include some precision adjustments.

Unlike some of the kits out there, the Festool bits are easily installed and removed. Nor does the Festool have to be re-calibrated when the bits are re-installed. :beer:

Yes, a track saw is not the same as a panel saw.
 

jake00

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the service.

We've got a couple 6" RO sanders, used in a production environment. We've had to send them in a few times for brushes and bearings, one even got a completely new housing. My cost? Shipping it there....
 

Hurricane_Whisperer

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Festool's are great for pro's because they allow precision work in the field quickly and the price isn't as much of a concern.

Festool's are great for serious hobbiests because they allow us to do work as good as a pro though we are probably way slower.

Fact is a pro get's good with regular tools. Festool's make it easy for amateur's to attain that accuracy with less practice and mistakes. If you take your time, you can set cut's up for accuracy and then concentrate on safely carrying those cuts out.

The prices are high. I don't mind the high prices on the more substantial items as they are usually well built, but I do get annoyed with the ridiculousness of prices on things like vacuum hoses and specialty router bits than the MFK 700 was built around for the horizontal table.

$45.00 for a super short bit that fits the horizontal table set me off finding a bit from Eagle America for half that although it took me a while to find it.
 

danski0224

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Festool's are great for pro's because they allow precision work in the field quickly and the price isn't as much of a concern.

Fact is a pro get's good with regular tools. Festool's make it easy for amateur's to attain that accuracy with less practice and mistakes. If you take your time, you can set cut's up for accuracy and then concentrate on safely carrying those cuts out.

Parts of the above contradict each other.

A pro, defined as someone providing services for hire, shouldn't want to spend a bunch of extra time to set up.

An amateur, hobbyist or enthusiast given a choice probably doesn't want to spend that extra time either.

For those that have never used a track saw, the ability to set the guide up on two points (no need to snap a line) and having a finished quality edge is invaluable. With the Festool track, the cut line is clearly defined and the saw cuts *exactly* on that line.

Cutting a taper in sheet goods or even cutting a taper out of a 1 x 2 becomes easy as pie without fancy table saw guides.

I can cut from 0" to 0-3/16" on a 3* bevel to re-set a door and it comes out perfectly.

Yup, people have done this without Festool track saws, but the right tool speeds up the job considerably.

The riving knife adds a huge safety feature
 

metal1313

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i want the festool, canot afford it and cannot justify it, but love the idea of it. does anyone have expereince with the grizzly track saw? its either that or the woodcraft kit? both are in the same price range
 

retfr8flyr

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I have the Makita track saw and although it's not a Festool, it does a great job. I paid less then $300 for the saw and a section of 52 inch track. I use it for breaking down sheet goods and long rough cut lumber pieces. I can then work with the material on my table saw. This is much safer then trying to cut the large pieces on my table saw. Compared to what a Festool setup would have cost me, I can live with not owning one.
 

ez-duzit

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i want the festool, canot afford it and cannot justify it, but love the idea of it...

Had I not found my TS55 set for $350, I would probably never have known just how much these are really worth, in terms of how much time I now save to do a sometimes critical and difficult job--effortlessly--with no clamping. Just plop the guide on my tic marks, and create a chip-free cut, at any angle, in $300/sheet veneered plywood. Instantly start and stop a cut anywhere within a sheet.

Just using spare plywood it's easy to build a guide. But the Festool is in its own class.
 
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