Thoughts on LED lighting with no replaceable bulb ?

[HoosierBuddy]

Hey guys,

I was at the big box store this week hoping to pick up a replacement ceiling fixture for a kid's bedroom we are converting to a guest room.

I was very surprised that everything I found (at Lowes) was a fixture that did not have any provision for replacement of the "bulb".

These all included a 5 year warranty.

What worries me about this type of fixture is that if something happens to me, then the lamp fails, not only do you have no light at all in the room. My wife would be faced with calling an electrician to replace the fixture. It just seems like a terrible idea.

Am I missing something here?

I ended up going on Amazon and ordering a fixture that would accept Edison based LED's. That way when they fail...anyone with a ladder can take care of it.

 

[Shiftless]

I have been using led fixtures that have non replaceable diodes for quite a while and have had no failures. But if you insist on replaceable bulbs, get something like this. I found this on the Lowe’s website. Maybe you missed it in the store. Id be surprised if they didn’t stock these common builder grade fixtures.

 

[billconner]

The LEDs won't fail but the driver may. Using retrofit LED bulbs - with driver built in - solves that - but probably shorter life and fewer design options.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I was looking for something a little bigger and a little more stylish. This is the only light in the room. 9-foot ceilings.

This is what I ordered from Amazon: 15.3" Diameter

 

[Innovate1]

The trend is to make the LED parts non-replaceable and I don't like that either. Same thing is happening with shop lights. I can see that the driver and perhaps the LED die too might run cooler and last longer being built into the frame as the heat can be conducted away. I would still go for the replaceable bulbs if I had the choice. I did buy some recessed lights that are LED and built into the fixture so if they go out I will need to do some electrical work. LEDs have gotten much better but I have had name brand bulbs fail - none of them last forever and some don't last the warranty period.

 

[BillK]

HB,
That is the same reason that I went with 8' led tubes to upgrade the lighting in my shop instead of replacing all of the fixtures. My 8 ft T-12 fixtures are all mounted and "plumbed" with emt. If I had replaced the entire fixtures with ones with no replaceable bulbs and then one failed, it would have been a ton of work to replace it. The way I have it now I just have to get a new led tube, snap it in and get on with the program. And I dont care what anyone says, the leds WILL fail

 

[dave*99]

I have been using led fixtures that have non replaceable diodes for quite a while and have had no failures. But if you insist on replaceable bulbs, get something like this. I found this on the Lowe’s website. Maybe you missed it in the store. Id be surprised if they didn’t stock these common builder grade fixtures.

Ah yes the infamous ceiling *****. Usually sold in pairs. Put your hands on a set today!

 

[bluedog225]

Avoid Feit. Cheap carp.

I’d get a one piece if it was in an easy location to replace. Or for form factor. But ”standard” bulbs and bases will be around for as long as you and I. And upgradeable as tech gets better.

 

[geneg]

HB,
That is the same reason that I went with 8' led tubes to upgrade the lighting in my shop instead of replacing all of the fixtures. My 8 ft T-12 fixtures are all mounted and "plumbed" with emt. If I had replaced the entire fixtures with ones with no replaceable bulbs and then one failed, it would have been a ton of work to replace it. The way I have it now I just have to get a new led tube, snap it in and get on with the program. And I dont care what anyone says, the leds WILL fail

LEDs also degrade over time. It's a gradual thing so you don't notice it. 4 or 5 years ago I hung a bunch of the 4ft 2 strip fixtures in my shop. No complaints & no "failures". I had bought some extras & last Fall hung some of the new ones above my lathe & bandsaw.
They are probably a third brighter. No dirt or fogging on the originals- just less light. I've noticed the same thing on led night lights in the house too. Get out extras when we have guests & they are brighter that the ones we have used continuously. I also agree with avoiding Feit!

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Good points all.

On the 4-foot shop lights, I bought 3 of those to string together in my barn. You know the type, you plug the first one in to a switched receptacle and the second one plugs into the first one and the third one plugs into the second one?

One of those failed within 18 months. I bet it didn't have 30 hours on it. But, as it just plugged in, it was no big deal to unplug the fixture, take it down and hang up a replacement.

Come to think of it....if they want us to all start using throw-away fixtures....they need to plug in rather than be hard wired. Maybe someone needs to come up with a universal ceiling fixture mount/plug so any shmoe can unlock the fixture from the ceiling box, pull it loose from a connector of some kind, snap in a new fixture that has the same mount, and relock it into place.

It would need to be as universal as......the edison socket, which Wikipedia tells me was patented in 1881. TAE was one smart-fricking-cookie. Word is he was also a great left-handed-hitter and handy with the ladies. Actually, I'm not sure about that last one.

Ty Cobb - Thomas Edison - Connie Mack Spring Training 1927

 

[Innovate1]

If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

 

[billconner]

It may not matter in a garage or shop, but retrofit LED - tubes or screw in - will not dim as well as integral LED fixtures. If that matters to you.

 

[dmittz]

So i have a little workshop/shed that I have rented to a tennant. There are 4x 6in Flush mount LED 'pot lights' in there. Nice made in USA quality, adjustable colour, say they are water proof etc...should be good right?

To be fair he is retired and enjoys working in there most days for several hours (woodwork etc..) so a fair number of hours each day they are on, but 6 months after putting them in I had to replace all 4 of them because the transformers went out on all of them within 1months time. Almost $50 each with tax, if it happens again i told him were getting ones with replaceable bulbs.

 

[SteveL]

LEDs also degrade over time. It's a gradual thing so you don't notice it. 4 or 5 years ago I hung a bunch of the 4ft 2 strip fixtures in my shop. No complaints & no "failures". I had bought some extras & last Fall hung some of the new ones above my lathe & bandsaw.
They are probably a third brighter. No dirt or fogging on the originals- just less light. I've noticed the same thing on led night lights in the house too. Get out extras when we have guests & they are brighter that the ones we have used continuously. I also agree with avoiding Feit!

This bothers me almost as much as having to replace the entire fixture if they fail. How are you supposed to deal with either in a room that would have 10-12 recessed cans? Buy a few extra just in case one or two fail and you find out the fixture is no longer available! If you bought extra, you replace the failed one and the its brighter than the rest. My wife would have a fit and remind me how stupid I was every time she turns on the lights.

 

[Ak Jim]

Be sure to check out the lumen output of the light fixtures with the built in non replaceable bulbs. They usually don’t put nearly as much light.

 

[Bert_]

So i have a little workshop/shed that I have rented to a tennant. There are 4x 6in Flush mount LED 'pot lights' in there. Nice made in USA quality, adjustable colour, say they are water proof etc...should be good right?

To be fair he is retired and enjoys working in there most days for several hours (woodwork etc..) so a fair number of hours each day they are on, but 6 months after putting them in I had to replace all 4 of them because the transformers went out on all of them within 1months time. Almost $50 each with tax, if it happens again i told him were getting ones with replaceable bulbs.

No warranty?

 

[Bert_]

I don't like it either. So many things are going this way, not made to be repaired or maintained. You are supposed to just throw the whole thing out and replace with a new one. It is what many consumers want.

The better fixtures intended for commercial use aren't as much an issue. The parts are usually supported, and better quality in the first place. My electrical supplier stocks several drivers. Haven't had any of the diodes themselves go bad out of warranty yet.

 

[dmittz]

No warranty?

i'm not really sure, the electricians supplied them and I think even if they warrantied them i'd still have to pay for a service call, seemed easier to just reolace them myself quickly and keep my tennant happy than try and warranty them. If there had been 10 of them instead of 4 I woukd have gone the warranty route for sure.

 

[tool_scrounge]

My neighbor got nice outdoor fixtures with built In LEDs. All failed within two years. He replaced them with new fixtures with replaceable LEDs. Those have worked much better.

 

[nadogail]

You pay your money and take your chances. I have had only two LED failures since ever and both were replaced by at no charge by the vendors. I have probably almost 80 installed.

 

[Kuma601]

I have three fixtures with these non-replaceable type of LED tubes. The oldest is about 4 years now and runs about 6 hours/day 6 days week. The 4' fixtures that do have replaceable tubes have gone into crazy $ these days. I used to buy the budget T8 fixtures at $16, the last time I saw them they were $40+ range. I want to add one more but I don't see them available at my local Lowes.

 

[Bert_]

I haven't had many problems but I did have some Lithonia highbays installed in a lumberyard where every single fixture partially or completely failed after about 4 years. In a warehouse it's no big deal if the new fixtures don't look the same as the old.

 

[byoungblood]

The LEDs won't fail but the driver may. Using retrofit LED bulbs - with driver built in - solves that - but probably shorter life and fewer design options.

This. I've dug into a couple of bulbs that "failed" and the LEDs themselves were fine.

An LED is meant to operate around 1.5-2v, you may have a dozen in a larger fixture. You still have ~100v that has go to somewhere. Usually not much in the way of heat sinking any of the components inside and there's always signs of thermal stress on parts inside.

 

[billconner]

When I was designing lighting, used a lot of ~$500 LED down lights - up to 7500 lumens, narrow beams, low glare, high CRI, 3000k, superb dimming to 0.1% - and the drivers were replaceable, not the LEDs.

 

[cherokee]

This. I've dug into a couple of bulbs that "failed" and the LEDs themselves were fine.

An LED is meant to operate around 1.5-2v, you may have a dozen in a larger fixture. You still have ~100v that has go to somewhere. Usually not much in the way of heat sinking any of the components inside and there's always signs of thermal stress on parts inside.

That is the thing that I always noticed, the heat, and you can tell on the old fixtures they ran hot.

 

[fdizzle]

Avoid Feit. Cheap carp.

I’d get a one piece if it was in an easy location to replace. Or for form factor. But ”standard” bulbs and bases will be around for as long as you and I. And upgradeable as tech gets better.

I really wish I would’ve read this before I just installed a Feit fixture in my soffit. It had the best specs of the comparable lights at Menards. Oh well, I’ll just have to prepare to replace it. Unfortunately it’s about 20 ft above the ground.

 

[bluedog225]

I’ve had dozens that were fine. One almost caught fire. It’s probably fine.

 

[mdim]

I have multiple fixtures with an integrated LED. Have not had one fail yet. But they were all cheap enough that were it to fail I wouldn't mind replacing the whole unit, only takes a few minutes. If I had a fixture that was really expensive, or hard to replace I would consider doing a bulb based unit.

 

[cogzoid]

I had a similar thing happen when I was updating the lighting in my kitchen. It's kind of unnerving to think that if the light goes out, you have to replace the whole fixture. I'm not super handy, so the idea of having to call an electrician for something that used to be a simple bulb change didn't sit right with me.

I ended up going for a fixture where I could change the bulbs myself. Just feels more practical, you know? Plus, I like being able to switch up the brightness or color temperature if I want to.

By the way, I found this site, https://leds.to/, when I was looking for bulbs. They had a bunch of options that were easy to switch out, so might be worth a look if you're still on the hunt for something more traditional.

 

[dogdog]

Have that $20 one from Costco, light fixture with no changeable bulbs. Works fine for 5 years, then blew and changed to another one. Nbd, if you wanted a bit longer lasting, their artika branded lights are really good but a bit more pricy. Have 1 of 10 installled for 5 years no issues other than pita to get it flat on a non flat ceiling.


https://www.costco.com/artika-sunray-1'x4'-flat-panel-led-light%2c-2-pack.product.4000209108.html?sh=true&nf=true

 

[zendriver]

Looks like the biggest problem is having multiple identical fixtures, one dies and there is no longer an exact replacement available.

 

[Skellyii]

I changed out all of the lights in my last investment property to replaceable LEDs a few years ago. In my current shop/house I have the non-replaceable kind, but I bought spares.

My thinking was the replaceables were quickly repaired to keep the tenant happy. If it takes a day or even a week to replace the ones in my house, I'm not gonna refuse to pay the rent.