Thoughts on wood flooring?

[ScurvyPete]

I feel like I already have an idea of where this thread is going to go, but I'm going to ask anyway.
I want to say that one of the first Garage Journal posts I ever saw was a pictorial on Max Schaaf's motorcycle shop, 4Q Conditioning. I searched for it, but couldn't find the original post on here.
Anyway, if I remember correctly, he set up shop in an old machine shop with wooden floors. The floor is oil-stained, well worn, and I think it looks amazing.
I'm planning on (in the distant future) retrofitting an old tobacco barn into a garage/shop, and I think wood flooring would look great. I plan for it to be a working shop, not just a parking area. What are y'all's thoughts on wood for a working floor?

Here's some pics I could find of the 4Q shop, via google:

 

[softailgarage]

I freakin dig wood floors and would do it to my shop cept for 2 reasons. 1. I have no idea where i would find old lumber like that and 2. San Diego has the highest population of termites in the country, not to mention every species of termites. They'de have a feast and i'd have a headache.

 

[magnusk750]

I've totally missed that thread. Is it gone for real? Love wooden floors, if I had space enough to have a separate room for welding and were moisture or termites is not an issue, sure, have a go at it. 1-2 years ago there was a thread about a Ford dealer having wooden floor in their daily use shop area.

 

[Angelfire]

I'm doing porcelain in my auto side of the shop but fully plan to do wood in the woodworking side!

 

[ScurvyPete]

Not the slightest problem with a wood floor. It is my choice of choices, but not practical in the big garage and the little ones are already finished.

If you have a wood floor, use it.

Welcome to the site.

First off, thanks for the welcome. I've lurked around here on the forum for a long while, but finally decided to make an account because I was tired of not being able to see some of the pictures
What makes you say that they aren't practical in a big garage?
For reference, the barn is 35'x45' with an un-leveled dirt floor (not only are there humps and such in the floor, but the bar itself is set on a very slight incline). Of course, I'll have the floor leveled, and I'm planning on having some sort of barrier between the earth and the wood.

I freakin dig wood floors and would do it to my shop cept for 2 reasons. 1. I have no idea where i would find old lumber like that and 2. San Diego has the highest population of termites in the country, not to mention every species of termites. They'de have a feast and i'd have a headache.

I believe that 4Q is in the San Fran/Bay Area. Of course, I have no clue when it comes to geography of California, so this could be completely irrelevant haha

I've totally missed that thread. Is it gone for real? Love wooden floors, if I had space enough to have a separate room for welding and were moisture or termites is not an issue, sure, have a go at it. 1-2 years ago there was a thread about a Ford dealer having wooden floor in their daily use shop area.

I don't think it was a forum thread, but a post on the main site. This was a few years ago, and there's waaaay too many pages for me to go through all of them to find it manually. I tried google searching (site:garagejournal.com max schaaf 4q conditioning) multiple combinations of these keywords and got nothing.

To give an idea of my plans, my first real automotive project will be to completely overhaul my '97 Dodge Ram that's been sitting for 3+ years due to a busted transmission. When I say "completely overhaul", I mean completely- new transmission, full motor rebuild, front end, suspension, etc.
From there, it would be used for "less intensive" things like regular auto maintenance (and of course upgrades) and other projects from time to time.
I'd like at some point to get a lift in there, and I'm sure at some point some welding will take place. Would a welding blanket be enough to keep from setting the place on fire?

I figured I could use rough-hewn boarding (think fence boards), clean them up, and maybe use some kind of treatment. I'm looking for something that will hold up to abuse and look good doing it. My one real concern is maybe warping/swelling issues.
Epoxy looks like a major pain in the *** to go through, just to have to do it again in five years because I'm doing more than just parking on it, and I'm not completely sold on RaceDeck (especially for the price). That's not to say that I think they're bad products by any means, I'm just not sure they're for me. Polished concrete is expensive, and I'm not too fond of the idea of cracking my skull because my shoes are wet. I think ceramic tile would be my next choice after the wood, but I'd much prefer the wood because of the slight cushioning and better grip underfoot in less-than-ideal conditions.

One last thing- I can't lie to you all. I mainly got the idea for wood flooring from the post mentioned previously, and I had already had an idea to turn the old barn into a garage. However, I watched Days of Thunder yesterday, and that really got me going, watching Robert Duvall build a race car in a barn loft

 

[ScurvyPete]

No, impractical for MY big garage. Uneven cement floors and am 80' span. Too much wood and too much slab prep.

For grins, look at envirotile.
The dream is end cut mesquite parquet.
End cut mesquite ,arguably, doesn't burn from welding and forging mishaps.

Ah, I misread your first post. Sorry about that.

The envirotile is pretty interesting! It looks like it does a lot of the things I want out of a floor (non-slip, durable, impact-absorbing). However, I wonder how well a creeper, shop stool, or a wheeled toolbox would roll on it, and how it would hold up to heat from welding or grinding

 

[ScurvyPete]

Yeah, I was looking at the smooth version. What I meant was that I wonder how well a loaded toolbox would roll on rubber tiling in general, as in I wonder if it would be too soft.
I guess I could take the creeper to the high school track and see how it rolls on that. The track is one of those recycled rubber deals that goes around the football field.
Do you think laying a welding blanket down would be enough to protect it?

That being said, I was looking at the mesquite hardwood and it looks really good. Personally, I like the boards better than the end-cut "tile" look. If it were going in my garage, I'd probably go for the lesser grade, since it would be a working floor as opposed to going in a house.

This is the #2 (lesser) grade, via Faifer & Company, Inc.

 

[ScurvyPete]

How is it for cleaning up fluid spills? What about dirt/grime? Have you noticed any problems with solvents or certain fluids (cleaners and such)?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, I'm just really interested by this envirotile. Even if I didn't use it in the barn, I could see using it in other places, especially places where I'm on my feet a lot

 

[pattenp]

My feeling is the biggest problem is going to be the effect of water and moisture. Wood just doesn't do well if it gets damp and can't dry out. It will need to be treated with some type of water sealant, top and bottom.

 

[bobscogin]

What are y'all's thoughts on wood for a working floor?

In a real working shop, with machine tools, roll around tool boxes, welding/cutting equipment, etc., I can't see any advantage over a well finished bare concrete floor. Appearance is another thing, but appearance shouldn't be a priority in choosing a working floor. A smooth concrete floor makes a great drawing table for full size layout of projects, too.

Bob

 

[ScurvyPete]

My feeling is the biggest problem is going to be the effect of water and moisture. Wood just doesn't do well if it gets damp and can't dry out. It will need to be treated with some type of water sealant, top and bottom.

Right.
This was my biggest issue with wood. I agree that it would definitely need a good sealant.

In a real working shop, with machine tools, roll around tool boxes, welding/cutting equipment, etc., I can't see any advantage over a well finished bare concrete floor. Appearance is another thing, but appearance shouldn't be a priority in choosing a working floor. A smooth concrete floor makes a great drawing table for full size layout of projects, too.

Bob

My problem with the concrete is the slickness. I helped teach a welding class for a few years while I've been at school, and in the shop we had a "semi-polished" concrete floor. I say semi-polished because I don't think it was burnished. It was really slick, but it didn't have the shine that burnishing gives.
At any rate, any time there was any sort of moisture on the floor (and there were places where there was always moisture due to quenching welds), it was like walking on an ice rink. It was even worse when cutting oil from the drill press got on the floor.
I'm just not that keen on bare concrete after dealing with it for around 4 years.

I totally agree with your statement that looks shouldn't be a priority in choosing a working floor. But at the same time, if I can have a decent floor that also looks great, why wouldn't I use it?
For what it's worth, I'm not really worried about the finish of the wooden floor. As long as chunks of wood aren't being gouged out of the surface, I'm ok with it getting scratched, scuffed, and stained. I imagine it would acquire a certain patina. Granted, I could be way off the mark here.

Just to clear this up, I hope this doesn't sound like I'm writing your comments off, because I think you make some very valid points, and I appreciate your input.

Oh, and what did you mean by the drawing board comment? I think I understood it, but I'm not positive. Care to clarify a little bit?

 

[matty d]

Not real wood and remotely related, but I have a second, 1 car garage that is low-use for storage mainly. We have Racedeck in the larger garage, but my wife wanted a separate 'less garage' like area for arts/crafts/gift wrapping/kids play, so I hunted around and found 'wood-looking' vinyl planks at the local Lowes for only $.99/sq foot. Peel and stick.

I dont park a car/repair/work with chemicals etc. in this 100 sq. foot space. I was skeptical but they get pretty good reviews. I have to do the last 25% of the floor and rent a roller but I like what I see so far. I wouldnt have it in my main garage though...

 

[ScurvyPete]

Huh. Kinda reminds me of the wood-grain laminate we used to have on desks and tables when I was in elementary school. Is it like a linoleum, or more like VCT?

 

[A_Pmech]

The Moore Special Tool Company has a wood floor. That way, if you drop a part the floor gets dinged, not four weeks worth of work.

 

[bobscogin]

Oh, and what did you mean by the drawing board comment? I think I understood it, but I'm not positive. Care to clarify a little bit?

When I'm doing fabrication of large parts that don't fit on my welding table, I often use soapstone and draw the layout angles and dimensions of the piece(s) directly on the shop floor in full scale. It would be a lot more difficult on a wood floor.

Bob

 

[Falcon67]

I don't know exactly what you mean by "end cut Mesquite" but we have Mesquite out the azz here. It's a weed as much as a tree. And it burns slow and smoky and is pretty easy to burn, which is why it's in every BBQ pit from Fort Worth to El Paso. It's also not a hard wood. Splits really easy when dry - I mean I can split a 24" log about 4" diameter with a hatchet in one hand. I would use it on a wall maybe, but not a floor. And I'd treat it with something to make it less flamable.

 

[ScurvyPete]

I don't know exactly what you mean by "end cut Mesquite" but we have Mesquite out the azz here. It's a weed as much as a tree. And it burns slow and smoky and is pretty easy to burn, which is why it's in every BBQ pit from Fort Worth to El Paso. It's also not a hard wood. Splits really easy when dry - I mean I can split a 24" log about 4" diameter with a hatchet in one hand. I would use it on a wall maybe, but not a floor. And I'd treat it with something to make it less flamable.

The end cut is pretty self-explanatory: square cuts off the end of the piece of lumber.

According to this website,

Mesquite flooring is extremely stable; and is one of the densest materials for hardwood flooring. We acquire our Mesquite wood from Wilson, Karnes, Bexar, Guadalupe, and Atascosa Counties. We then kiln dry our flooring down to 6 - 12% moisture content to bring the boards to a stable moisture content, then eliminate all sapwood in the defect and boxing process... Architects, Contractors and homeowners throughout the world have recognized our Mesquite Flooring for its beauty strength and stability.

I'm not going to say that you're wrong, because I've never dealt with mesquite. For all I know, it's just marketing mumbo jumbo (I'm sure that there's at least some of it in play here).

And according to this page from the same website, the mesquite is apparently rated to be pretty hard, with low shrink/swell. Like I said earlier, though, I have no idea how factually correct this is.

 

[judyfholmes]

That's great, wooden floors are always ideal. But, If you would do solid hardwood wooden flooring then it would look more classy and royal. You should consult some flooring contractor for more suggestions.

 

[ScurvyPete]

The plan was to do solid planking.
I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but what about black locust wood? It makes one hell of a fence post due to it's resistance to decay and ability to weather extremely well, and I don't think it's really that expensive either.

By the way, I finally found the post from the main site that I had referenced in my first post in this thread. I had to go all the way back to May of 2010 haha

 

[slickgt1]

What you want to do is very simple, and doesn't even require a ton of prep or labor. If you want to do planks, go for it. I will try to describe how I have done it multiple times in basements and below grade, on dirt floors.

What you are going to want to do, is build a wall frame structure, that will actually lay on the ground. Your ground is most likely not level at all. So you will make posts, and attach said post to your floor framing. You will be doing all of this out of PT lumber, and using deck screws. Not sheetrock screws ok. You will then cover that in PT plywood. Then tar papar, and then lay out your planks.

You basically building a wood deck on your dirt floor. The more posts go into the ground, preferably on concrete piers, the better and more solid your floor will be.

Depending on how **** you are, and what type of insulation you are expecting from your floor, you can build this on top of rigit foam insulation, you can stuff insulation into the "studs", you can do multiple layers of tar paper. In the end, plank flooring would be the simplest of the options.

End grain flooring will not be easy to install and maintain without a proper compacted subfloor. Trust me. It will move on you.