Thread taps or thread restorers?

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Hey guys. I don't do a lot of custom work on vehicles, but I do have to clean up threads often. I know this would lead to a thread restorer kit but hear me out. On the off chance that I do need to tap something, can I use the restorers or are they more of thread straighteners than cutters? I've mostly used taps and dies in my work but someone mentioned a restoring kit. I want to buy one or the other, I know both would be ideal, but I'm not rich. I will be buying metric and sae of whichever. I've just used whatever was around. My grandfather has two humongous sets of Hanson taps and dies which are adjustable with a set screw and my boss has a snap on thread restoring kit. So I use both.

 

[ZRX61]

Restorers won't cut a thread & you can really screw up a damaged thread with a tap, you need both.

 

[owenst7]

Meh. I got by for many years with some picks and dull taps. Not the correct way to do it, but I never had an issue.

I would recommend keeping a close eye on the 48 piece thread restorer set from Craftsman. They go on sale a few times a year, and you can apply SYWR points to them. Think I got mine for around $35 and free shipping with a free trial of SYWR max. It's made by Lang/Kastar, and is the same kit that the tool trucks sell. If you ever wear out or break a piece, you can order singles from Snap On.

You didn't mention specifically what kind of stuff you'd be using them on either. I probably wouldn't chase threads with a tap on an aluminum engine block or transmission unless it was in a location that I could easily throw a helicoil in or drill and tap bigger threads. On the other hand, I've used cheap, dull taps plenty of times on less critical threads on axle housings, old iron engine blocks, transfer cases, etc. Now that I have an actual chasing set, I just use those now.

 

[LB-1911]

Will $49.01 break the bank?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3671840&postcount=126

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I'm more so looking for an over all cover everything kit. Cleaning threads in a head. Tapping a hole in the engine bay for a bolt to ground. Maybe cleaning up a buggered bolt. Mostly cleaning up, but I do occasionally tap things.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Neither can take the place of the other. That Cman restore set is what you want, then search for a good set of taps and dies.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Ok thanks! Will that kit cover most if not all sizes? I'm not familiar with all the different sizes fasteners I usually just try until I find the right size haha

 

[LB-1911]

Ok thanks! Will that kit cover most if not all sizes? I'm not familiar with all the different sizes fasteners I usually just try until I find the right size haha

You can also check the contents @
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=675360&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Rethreader Taps:

National Coarse: 1/4 -20, 5/16 -18, 3/8 -16, 7/16 -14, 1/2 -13, 9/16 -12.

National Fine: 1/4 -28, 5/16 -24, 3/8 -24, 7/16 -20, 1/2 -20, 9/16 -18.

Metric: 6 -1.00, 8 - 1.25, 10 -1.00, 10 -1.25, 11-1.50, 10 - 1.50, 12 -1.25, 12 -1.50, 12 -1.75, 14 -1.50

Rethreader Dies:

National Coarse: 1/4 - 20, 5/16 - 18, 3/8 - 16, 7/16 in. - 14, 1/2 - 13, 9/16 - 12, 5/8 - 11.

National Fine: 1/4 - 28, 5/16 - 24, 3/8 - 24, 7/16 - 20, 1/2 - 20, 9/16 - 18, 5/8 - 18.

Metric: 6 -1.00, 8 -1.25, 10 -1.00, 10 -1.25, 10 -1.50, 11 -1.50, 12 -1.25, 12 -1.50, 12 -1.75, 14 -1.50

Thread Files:

US Thread Pitch 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24.

Metric Thread Pitch: .75, 1.00, 1.25, 1.50, 1.75, 2.00, 2.50, 3.00.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Ok thanks! Will that kit cover most if not all sizes? I'm not familiar with all the different sizes fasteners I usually just try until I find the right size haha

I work on everything from tractors to bicycles and have yet to find a size it has not had that I needed.

 

[squeakz28]

Can someone please educate me on the difference between the restore kit and normal taps and dies? I've always used regular taps and dies to clean and chase threads. It has always seemed to work for me but I am curious what would the advantage be of the restore kit?

 

[Buckgnarly]

Can someone please educate me on the difference between the restore kit and normal taps and dies? I've always used regular taps and dies to clean and chase threads. It has always seemed to work for me but I am curious what would the advantage be of the restore kit?

Taps cut, restores reshape existing material. If you tap boogered threads it will remove material, making the threads weaker but the rethread will reshape them, not removing anything.

 

[squeakz28]

Thanks Buck. Must be true that you learn something new everyday. I'll be keeping an eye out for a restorer kit sometime in the near future.

 

[LB-1911]

Thanks Buck. Must be true that you learn something new everyday. I'll be keeping an eye out for a restorer kit sometime in the near future.

As previously mentioned -

Craftsman 48 pc. SAE & Metric Thread Restorer Kit - $49.01
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-48-pc-sae-metric-thread-restorer-kit/p-00942275000P?prdNo=1

The Truck Tool Equivalents Thread - Gathering Data
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3671840&postcount=126

 

[thebeekeeper1]

Thanks Buck. Must be true that you learn something new everyday. I'll be keeping an eye out for a restorer kit sometime in the near future.

They make regular dies that are "rethreading" dies also. I have a set of Greenlees that work well. Hanson makes rethread dies also. They do work differently and I too learned of them here.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

They make regular dies that are "rethreading" dies also. I have a set of Greenlees that work well. Hanson makes rethread dies also. They do work differently and I too learned of them here.

I believe these are what I've used that my grandfather has. You can spread of tighten them, correct?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

So lang, kastar, snap on and craftsman all make the same kit? No differences? For what I was going to buy the gear wrench tap kit for... I'll save the money and get the craftsman!

 

[franzdom]

Well they all sell the same kit, only one of them makes it

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

How does craftsman offer them cheaper? And who's the original manufacturer? lol

 

[Buckgnarly]

How does craftsman offer them cheaper? And who's the original manufacturer? lol

No warranty on Cman, but not a big deal. You really should not break one, and if you do buy a Snap On replacement for a few bucks, no shipping cost, and now that one is lifetime warranty.
Kastar makes them, many companies rebrand them.

 

[owenst7]

How does craftsman offer them cheaper? And who's the original manufacturer? lol

Did you read post #3 in this thread?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Did you read post #3 in this thread?

Yes, and even the link to the other thread about the snap on tool being a lang/kastar, but when i look them up they're listed as two seperate companies. that's where the confusion is coming into play.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

No warranty on Cman, but not a big deal. You really should not break one, and if you do buy a Snap On replacement for a few bucks, no shipping cost, and now that one is lifetime warranty.
Kastar makes them, many companies rebrand them.

I found the kastar one for 10$ more, are those warrantied by any chance? If not i'll go with your suggestion and buy replacements from snap on.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I think one of them bought the other out not long ago.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I found the kastar one for 10$ more, are those warrantied by any chance? If not i'll go with your suggestion and buy replacements from snap on.

Only against defects i think. Truck brands are the only ones that offer lifetime as far as I know.

 

[Packard V8]

Thread restoring taps/dies are fit very loosely, so as never to remove any material

Taps and dies are sized for % of thread engagement. Every OEM fastener combination is specified to a fit. If a tighter tap or die is used on fasteners designed for an interference fit, that will be cut away.

Having said that, I've been using standard taps and dies to chase rusty threads in iron blocks and heads for fifty years and never caused a problem. I do have the thread restorers, but they just don't clean the threads as well.

Yes, aluminum is more delicate.

Having both is a good thing. Examining the fastener threads and determining what problem you are trying to fix will teach you a lot.

jack vines

 

[Kevin54]

Instead of buying a thread restoring kit for internal threads, buy some used taps and make your own. A few minutes in the drill press, a piece of sandpaper, and you will have some thread restoring taps. The sandpaper will dull the flutes so they will roll the threads back into shape rather than cut them.

For external threads, you can get some thread files. I use them, but find that they are limited in what they can do. If you have a lathe, you can make your own thread restorers. Get either some oil hardening stock, or air hardening, or water hardening. Drill and tap the thread size you want, harden the piece, then dull it down with some sandpaper.

That is for ones on a budget, and don't have a lot of extra coin to toss around. Oil, water, or air hardening is relatively cheap. Or buy some older used sets of taps and dies, and dull them up so they will reform threads instead of cutting threads.

And this is just a suggestion, and I have done it in the past and it works quite well. Does it work as good as buying a brand new set of thread restorers? Probably not, but then it's all in what you want to spend.

 

[Givl Reggin]

buy some used taps and make your own. A few minutes in the drill press, a piece of sandpaper, and you will have some thread restoring taps.... but then it's all in what you want to spend.

You do realize that a complete Snap-On set is only $130 bucks? Even if you don't value your time, it's hard to justify messing around with dulling taps to make your own!

 

[merbie]

Get just taps and split dies it's what I use to clean up threads


Sent from the sticks

 

[scrapdaddy]

Well, you guys sold me, just bought the Craftsmen set. Always thought about buying a set, never did.

Thanks!

Ron

 

[Rosso]

I'd love one of those sets, sadly craftsman etc isn't available here in Europe. Stuck with the snap on kit which is three times the price.

 

[Kevin54]

You do realize that a complete Snap-On set is only $130 bucks? Even if you don't value your time, it's hard to justify messing around with dulling taps to make your own!

All I was saying was that it is very easy to make your own if you have a very limited budget. Someone may be able to walk through a garage sale and pick up a handful for a few dollars. All I was saying was that it is possible to make your own to save some money

 

[atwageman]

I'm a industrial mechanic and use both on a regular basis. You need both.

 

[ZRX61]

You may notice that the SnapOn link & the Craftsman link show an identical set of thread restorers. That's because they come out of the same factory. I picked up mine on clearance for about $25.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Ordered the craftsman. Will be here Friday. You better hope I like it! Lol

 

[thebeekeeper1]

I believe these are what I've used that my grandfather has. You can spread of tighten them, correct?

No--at least not the ones I have. They are labeled as "Rethread" dies (I have no taps), but are solid. I'll find a link--BRB.

Edit: Okay, see if this search link works:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ethread+die&_nkw=hanson+rethread+die&_sacat=0

 

[Engine]

Hey guys. I don't do a lot of custom work on vehicles, but I do have to clean up threads often. I know this would lead to a thread restorer kit but hear me out. On the off chance that I do need to tap something, can I use the restorers or are they more of thread straighteners than cutters? I've mostly used taps and dies in my work but someone mentioned a restoring kit. I want to buy one or the other, I know both would be ideal, but I'm not rich. I will be buying metric and sae of whichever. I've just used whatever was around. My grandfather has two humongous sets of Hanson taps and dies which are adjustable with a set screw and my boss has a snap on thread restoring kit. So I use both.

I think the conclusion was that they were not interchangeable in the discussion about a month ago on this:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251660&highlight=thread+restorer

Some guys went into great detail as to how the thread restorers work, and if you want to cut threads you have to use taps/dies and if you want to restore threads you shouldn't use taps/dies.

They are simply two different tools designed to do separate types of work. There is no (correct) way to use a tap/die to restore threads if you want to retain the thread strength.

 

[Packard V8]

There is no (correct) way to use a tap/die to restore threads if you want to retain the thread strength.

As is often stated, "Your opinions and results may differ." The broad brush, "to restore threads" doesn't say anything. Cross-threaded,? Partially stripped? Rusty? Mechanically damaged? Steel-in-steel? Steel-in-cast-iron? Steel-in-aluminum? All these problems are different and require different "restore". In my considerable experience, it all depends upon the condition of the fasteners, the materials involved and the problem one is trying to correct.

jack vines

 

[SantaAna12]

He's on island time brah.

Still on ship time Mr. Reggin?

 

[Engine]

As is often stated, "Your opinions and results may differ." The broad brush, "to restore threads" doesn't say anything. Cross-threaded,? Partially stripped? Rusty? Mechanically damaged? Steel-in-steel? Steel-in-cast-iron? Steel-in-aluminum? All these problems are different and require different "restore". In my considerable experience, it all depends upon the condition of the fasteners, the materials involved and the problem one is trying to correct.

jack vines

That makes sense. With respect to your experience, please correct me if I am misunderstanding. Here's what I make of this so far: If a thread is damaged, using a die that cuts away more metal to somewhat "restore" the original thread shape would necessarily leave less material in the thread. This must weaken the thread. Maybe this wouldn't reduce the strength of the nut or bolt too much to be functional, but could be enough to cause the thread to completely strip out under certain conditions. In an important application, this might be very risky. This would explain why a tap/die should not be used.

Using the thread "restorer" tool which pushes the metal back into its original configuration, even though the strength of the metal would still be somewhat compromised, would seem to be the stronger of the two options.

Additionally, while the tap/die can be used in some cases to make threads functional again, the restorer tool cannot cut threads thus the two tools are not interchangeable. This is why I'm thinking that someone who commonly encounters situations where both cutting new threads as well as restoring old damaged threads will be required, both type tools would be required.

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm considering buying a good tap/die set and a "thread restorer" set but don't want to buy both if it's not necessary.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I bump into cleaning and realigning threads more than needing to cut new ones. Recently had to drill and tap a universal shift knob for a friends car as the shifter had small threads for another type of car. Also had to drill and tap a bolt out of the rear hatch for a snapped license plate mounting bolt. The other day as well I had to tap a new hole for a ground splice pack on my inner fender. Other than those three instances I've needed the restorers handful more times.