Three way dust collector controller

[LOW1]

New poster here, but long term reader. This question is similar to the recent post regarding two switches for an air compressor, so apologies for any overlap.

The Grand Plan for dust control in my new shop has hit a snag. (As most of my other Grand Plans have also done) I would like to be able to turn on a 3 hp 240 volt dust collector from two locations. I thought it would be a simple matter to find a three way switch which could do this using 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp breaker, which I have installed. But all the switches that I find are only rated for 2 hp.

And then to complicate things I decide that I want a pilot light switch which would light red when the dust collector is on as it will be located outside my shop for noise reduction purposes and I don't want to leave it on.

The earlier air compressor thread mentioned using a transformer and a contacter, which makes sense. But as I understand it this would result in 24 amps running to the switches which may not be enough for a pilot light. Would a pilot light work in this situation?

Or does someone make a three way off/on switch/controller with a pilot light for a 3 hp motor?

 

[MrSurly]

The best bet would be a NEMA contactor with a 120V coil and the 120v control voltage would run through your 3way switches. The pilot lamp though would likely be a separate piece as I’m not aware of lighted 3-ways

There are no two pole 3-way switches. Technically you could 3-way switch one leg and it would *work* but you’d have to add a disconnect at the machine.... you might as well go the contactor route.

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[Toolfool]

Wireless remote control. Add a line for the light inside the shop.

http://benchblog.com/how-tos/how-to...rol-switch-for-your-wood-shop-dust-collector/

 

[pattenp]

I agree with MrSurly. Use a 120V coil contactor the 3way switches control the coil and have a pilot light on the coil circuit so it's on when the coil is energized. You can also use a 24V transformer and use 3way switches and a 24V light to a contactor with a 24V coil.

Toolfool suggestion is the easiest.

 

[ard]

I use a zwave mini remote and a dry contract module. Remote is on my belt or shop apron.

If it's an option for you I'll post links to the product

 

[tab2]

I use a zwave mini remote and a dry contract module. Remote is on my belt or shop apron.

If it's an option for you I'll post links to the product

I’d be interested in this

 

[ard]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ER6MH22/?tag=atomicindus08-20



Diagrams: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/810TpaugNSS.pdf



https://www.zwaveoutlet.com/collect...on-labs-aeotec-z-wave-minimote-remote-control

I didnt think I paid $49 for the remote- I bought a few for 20 or 25 as I recalled

 

[MrSurly]

This would give you wireless remote control to switch the control circuit, but since it's single pole, you'd still need a two-pole contactor to control, though


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[ard]

This would give you wireless remote control to switch the control circuit, but since it's single pole, you'd still need a two-pole contactor to control, though


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Yup
Used this for a 240v pump control:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KGSJ74/?tag=atomicindus08-20

$9.00

 

[pattenp]

A 2 pole contactor is not absolutely needed. A 1 pole can be use to disconnect one leg of 240V to kill power to dust collector. 2 pole switches on 240V are only required if used as a safety/service disconnect.

 

[Norcal]

Yup
Used this for a 240v pump control:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KGSJ74/?tag=atomicindus08-20

$9.00

Not a listed product so not code compliant, a UR means it's a UL recognized component of UL listed equipment, in order to legally use it, your panel needs to be submitted to a recognized testing lab for evaluation, ($$$$$) the HVAC equipment they are normally used in have been listed. Much better to buy a listed contactor.

 

[ard]

Not a listed product so not code compliant, a UR means it's a UL recognized component of UL listed equipment, in order to legally use it, your panel needs to be submitted to a recognized testing lab for evaluation, ($$$$$) the HVAC equipment they are normally used in have been listed. Much better to buy a listed contactor.

Ive gotten a slew of products IEC60601 and UL certified, so I know what is involved..

But more importantly, who cares?

This BS 'boogie man is coming., its illegal, they will throw you in UL jail' **** in online forums is nuts (Or NEC Jail, or AHJ jail or whatever).

People overload rafters, line workspaces with firewood (aka OSB) and we are worked about a UR contractor in a metal box?!

 

[Norcal]

Ive gotten a slew of products IEC60601 and UL certified, so I know what is involved..

But more importantly, who cares?

This BS 'boogie man is coming., its illegal, they will throw you in UL jail' **** in online forums is nuts (Or NEC Jail, or AHJ jail or whatever).

People overload rafters, line workspaces with firewood (aka OSB) and we are worked about a UR contractor in a metal box?!

Did anyone mention jail, other then you? A DP contactor is a bottom of the line product, chosen to get past the warranty period by the manufacturer at the lowest possible price, you want to cobble together ****, be my guest.

 

[MrSurly]

A 2 pole contactor is not absolutely needed. A 1 pole can be use to disconnect one leg of 240V to kill power to dust collector. 2 pole switches on 240V are only required if used as a safety/service disconnect.

True, but then he'd need to buy and install a disconnect near the machine. That's why I say he 'might as well' put that money toward a proper contactor


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[pattenp]

True, but then he'd need to buy and install a disconnect near the machine. That's why I say he 'might as well' put that money toward a proper contactor


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My understanding is a voltage controlled contactor cannot serve as the primary service/safety disconnect. If the dust collector requires hardwiring and is not within sight and or the required distances of the breaker panel providing power then a separate manual disconnect will still be required for disconnection of the motor and any motor control devices.

Edit: I venture to guess the OP's dust collector has a cord and plug so the disconnect would be a mute point.

 

[ard]

Did anyone mention jail, other then you? A DP contactor is a bottom of the line product, chosen to get past the warranty period by the manufacturer at the lowest possible price, you want to cobble together ****, be my guest.

You said "illegal".

Is it?

Homeowner takes a 6x6x6 PVC box, zwave module, contactor- one cord to plug into an outlet, another cord w/ a fitting to the dust collector plug. Using a DR rated contactor inside. "Illegal"????

In terms of 'jail', I was using hyperbole, and obviously so. i even put 'quotes' around it.

In your perfect world we would only hire licensed union electricians to install products engineered and certified for the specific installation. And we'd happily pay whatever they want 'because it makes us safe'.


Can we get past that nonsense?

 

[MrSurly]

My understanding is a voltage controlled contactor cannot serve as the primary service/safety disconnect.

First, I’m not going to drag out a code book, I was actually speaking to serviceability and being relatively safe... and assuming that we’re talking about a hardwired machine.
A contactor is not a disco, no argument. My point is that using a “one legged” AC contactor seems a bad idea and (to be prudent) you would want to have a ready means of disco right there handy.
In terms of safety, we all know to kill the breaker, open the circuit but accidents happen because people will treat a “turned off” machine as ‘safe’ because people are people. They do stupid. A two-pole contactor is st least “off” and effectively safer.

Edit: I venture to guess the OP's dust collector has a cord and plug so the disconnect would be a mute point.

Let’s think that through. If it’s corded and OP wants remote control, he’ll need to install a receptacle that has a switched supply. We’re right back to the same place re: the one-legged contactor. The receptacle could be powered by a NEMA contactor and all would be sweetness and light, but if you used the AC contactor to create a *partially switched* 240 receptacle, I’m calling that a major fail in terms of code AND safety







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[tymbo]

http://www.grngate.com/?page_id=14

I had this system years ago, when it was new to the market. Automatic blast gates and auto dust collector on/off when you turn on/off machines. Kind of pricey but worked great and never had to fuss with dust collector. BTW, I had this set up with a 3hp/3 phase dust collector.

 

[klassenl]

Every A/C that I have ever seen does exactly this.

Edit: I feel sorry for the OP. He asked an honest question and it has become this.

Edit 2: I just convicted myself.

 

[MrSurly]

Every A/C that I have ever seen does exactly this.
Edit: I feel sorry for the OP. He asked an honest question and it has become this.
Edit 2: I just convicted myself.

I have no issue with the OP, he asked and I offered an opinion (that needs no defense).
Others have suggested the AC contactor and I have only stated there's a safety concern depending on how that type of contactor is used.

Yes, they are very common on AC condensing units; as an internal component inside the assembly of the unit (that also requires a disconnect).
If the OP wants to use that contactor, it would be OK with me but it would be best if it were installed *just as it is in the AC units*, inside the panel of the unit and hardwired through a disco. No issue at all.

If the machine is corded, then there's a real problem using this kind of contactor to feed a receptacle.

 

[klassenl]

If the machine is corded, then there's a real problem using this kind of contactor to feed a receptacle.

Why?

I will agree that the intended purpose is inside a unit. That aside we both know it will work and if installed properly is not a safety hazard.

 

[LOW1]

Thanks to all for their input. I would likely lose a remote. Or a shop apron if a remote was attached to it. So I will go with a 120 two pole contactor. I will install a disconnect on both the 120 and the 240 lines in front of the contactor box.

The local big box store has fusible 30 amp AC disconnects for about $25. They didn't have any nonfusible ones. Any reason why a fusible AC disconnect would not work for the 220 disconnect I need?

Thanks again.