throw-away society

[davestlouis]

https://goo.io/KKQVMl

After tossing yet another vacuum cleaner in the trash, I'm getting annoyed. My mother had the same cheap little Hoover upright vacuum the whole time I was growing up, no neat attachments but the stupid thing ran for something like 20 years. My grandma had the same little Frigidaire fridge from 1947 or so until she died 50 years later. I buy at least one vacuum a year, my 5 year old Frigidaire fridge is ready to die at any moment, my 5 year old Whirlpool washer and dryer work OK but sound like death warmed over.

What happened to reliability and a long service life? Are there any household appliances that actually last for any length of time? To be fair, we are hard on household stuff, 7 kids and 4 dogs tend to do that, but for crying out loud...

 

[billymade]

I remember when I was younger, that if you had to replace a component (e.g. starter, alternator, master cylinder etc.) on a car you had two options: a new unit or a rebuild kit or have someone rebuild it for you (with the kit you bought!). I think we had a situation where parts were expensive but labor was cheaper. Now it seems we have the inverse problem; the parts/products are cheap but labour is very expensive. So, cost effectiveness, cheap offshore products and engineered obsolesce is ruling the day. My folks are from Ohio and I remember my grandfather doing and fixing everything around the house; I think primarily this was because of economics and they were of German descent, those earlier generations were very adept at fixing things. The German sensibility has a frugalness to it and a willingness/skill to fix things. I think if we were able to observe most families who went through the great depression and earlier; they all probably did this type of work themselves driven by economic necessity. Their skill set was there, because so many grew up on farms, lived in small towns and had to fix things themselves.

 

[wilbilt]

The school district I work for uses Royal vacuums for the custodial staff. They are built like tanks, and replacement parts are widely available.

Sandbox sand is hard on the impellers and housings, and the housings do actually wear through on occasion. Of course, each one of these things are used to vacuum 15-20 30x40 classrooms every weeknight for 10 months of every year.

My mom had a Kirby of similar design when I was a kid. Actually, she still has it.

 

[djjsr]

The one and only goal in manufacturing today is to make it fast and cheap, then sell it for as much as the market will bear. It's a shame and very frustrating.

It's really hard to tell if you're getting something that's decent quality anymore. I pretty much go by Consumer Reports recommendations when I can. It's still no guarantee, but at least it's better than a shot in the dark. So far, for cars and appliances it's worked out ok.

 

[davestlouis]

My inlaws had the bright idea of buying a Viking fridge, spend something like $5000 on that monster, the front matches the cabinets, very spiffy. Living in rural Arkansas, there is only one company in the whole state that stocks parts, and the last time it crapped out, they lived out of coolers and a bar fridge for 10 days waiting for parts. Moral of the story, even spending big bucks doesn't guarantee a nice result.

 

[Joe B.]

No one knows how to fix things anymore so what would be the point of making something user serviceable?

 

[rsanter]

profit, planned obsolence
its hard to sell you another one if their price is too high
its also hard to sell you another one if the old one keeps going

bob

 

[nissan_crawler]

Do NOT get my started on Frigidaire. Suffice it to say, if you have a problem, even under warranty, you might as well throw it away and not waste your time calling them.

I use a small shop-vac with a fine filter in my house, since I have no carpet. It works quite well.

 

[1320stang]

We have a Kirby, could probably get a better performing vacuum, but all I've bought are HEPA bags and a spare belt or two. We have a lot of sand where we live, I imagine I'll find out how well it has worked when I replace the carpet in a few years. We also have a Bissel ProHeat upright carpet cleaning machine that works pretty well.

 

[old salvage]

I got tired of buying a stupid fan every summer so I got an old cast iron job at a yard sale. The thing is going on its eight summer with me and runs great. It had already seen lots of use and was 53 yrs old when I got it.
It was even less expensive than the throw away junk I would buy at department stores.

 

[1320stang]

Now we have a Frigidare front loader and the only big problem I had with it was the o-ring between the halves leaking and shorting out the main board. Replaced that for $100 (it was out of warrenty) and it was still leaking so I tightened the fasteners, that took care of it for a while, but it eventually started leaking again. Bought a new $6 o-ring and tore the washer COMPLETELY apart and put it back together, but used orange RTV in addition to the new o-ring and replaced the screws that just screwed into the fiber/plastic of the other half of the tub with carriage bolts and ploy lock nuts and no problems since.

 

[boiler7904]

We bought a Bissel vacuum when we bought our house about 2 years ago. My wife vacuums every 3 or 4 days. Around Valentine's Day of this year, the end of the rotating brush wore out and disintegrated in the head of the vacuum. After taking it apart and looking at the book, it is a replaceable part and that's where things get interesting. I called customer service and asked about getting covered under warranty. Nope - it's a wear and tear item like a belt. Then I ask about the cost. $19 - no big deal. Then he says that it is designed to wear and need replacement every 4-6 months. BS I say. As soon as I asked for a manager, his story changed and he was willing to send me a new brush as a one time courtesy. Needless to say, when that brush breaks, I'll be calling for another free one.

 

[lbgradwell]

Needless to say, when that brush breaks, I'll be calling for another free one.

Needless indeed; just brutal...

 

[eschoendorff]

My inlaws had the bright idea of buying a Viking fridge, spend something like $5000 on that monster, the front matches the cabinets, very spiffy. Living in rural Arkansas, there is only one company in the whole state that stocks parts, and the last time it crapped out, they lived out of coolers and a bar fridge for 10 days waiting for parts. Moral of the story, even spending big bucks doesn't guarantee a nice result.

Now that would piss me off. I don't mind paying for quality, but paying that much and then having to wait and wait for parts seems insulting. Especially on the hurry-up-and-buy society that we live in....

 

[nissan_crawler]

Now that would piss me off. I don't mind paying for quality, but paying that much and then having to wait and wait for parts seems insulting. Especially on the hurry-up-and-buy society that we live in....

I paid $1800 for my Frigidaire, 2 years into it, the controls go out and freeze $300 worth of food (3 year/5 year compressor warranty). So, I call them, setup an time, and take the afternoon off work...nobody shows. I call Frigidaire, they have no record of my call, schedule another appt. Nobody shows. Repeat a third time. I got pissed, bought my own controls/tubing/water filter/filter mount (it all froze and cracked) for $250.

2 years later, same **** but out of basic warranty, $300 of food, $250 of parts.

2 months after that, the compressor dies, fridge and freezer get heated to 85*, $300 more of food ruined. I call them up, they want my receipt. Wouldn't you know, I can't find the receipt, BUT, the build date on the fridge was 05/03 (this happened in March this year). So, I explain that obviously, there is NO WAY it could be out of warranty, since it hadn't even been built for 5 years. They say they will do nothing without receipt to show purchase date. I went all the way up the chain of command, they tell me to get bent. I contact the BBB, and they tell me there's plenty of grievances against them, so apparently they don't give a damn.

$1800 fridge, $900 of ruined food, $500 of repair parts, under warranty but not covered, all in 4 years. I have a $3200 stainless steel cabinet that will heat to 85*. I bought an LG. I will never buy Frigidaire/whirlpool/amana/maytag/kenmore appliances again (same model in all lines).

Oh, and my Frigidaire Professional stove blew a big chip out of the glasstop (while nothing was on it) and they tell me that I did it and they won't warranty it.

That's what spending $4,000 with Frigidaire gets you.

 

[Mike83]

I bought a cheap $10 or $15 space heater for my fiance to use at work because her feet were cold. A few weeks ago she tells me it stopped working so she threw it away! I was was like WTF? I try explaining to her that things can be fixed. I at least could have taken it apart and looked around inside. Every time my car makes some noise she says "time for a new car soon." Its like she wants to throw away the car when it breaks, too!

 

[philw]

I heard that Maytag and Amana have went downhill since being bought. We gave my parents a new Amana microwave a couple years ago and it didn't seem to be any better quality than most of your standard microwaves. The Amana it replaced was built like a tank but was probably 15-20 years old.

My parents have a Kirby which is about 10 years old and it's heavy duty. Heavy being the key word---it weighs a ton but it's a solid vac. They are pricey though.....if their still around.

I have a Electrolux cannister (have mostly wood floors) which is made in Sweden. We have had it about 4 years and not 1 problem. Very, very quiet and well built. I found it on clearance at Lowes, I think regular price they are in the $350+ range. Sears makes a copy/clone for around $80 but when I looked at it I could tell immediately the difference in quality.

Another disposable item seems to be BBQ grills. The cheap ones seem to last a couple years before they need major work. Next grill purchase will be a Weber, they have a 10 year warranty on the burners.

 

[lbgradwell]

I have a Electrolux cannister (have mostly wood floors) which is made in Sweden. We have had it about 4 years and not 1 problem. Very, very quiet and well built. I found it on clearance at Lowes, I think regular price they are in the $350+ range. Sears makes a copy/clone for around $80 but when I looked at it I could tell immediately the difference in quality.

That's the machine my Mom had when I was growing up. It was excellent. We didn't have a lot of money and I remember thinking it was VERY expensive at the time, but Mom knew what she was doing; her sister has it now & it still works like new 25 years later!

 

[Northstar9126]

I heard that Maytag and Amana have went downhill since being bought. We gave my parents a new Amana microwave a couple years ago and it didn't seem to be any better quality than most of your standard microwaves. The Amana it replaced was built like a tank but was probably 15-20 years old.

My parents have a Kirby which is about 10 years old and it's heavy duty. Heavy being the key word---it weighs a ton but it's a solid vac. They are pricey though.....if their still around.

I have a Electrolux cannister (have mostly wood floors) which is made in Sweden. We have had it about 4 years and not 1 problem. Very, very quiet and well built. I found it on clearance at Lowes, I think regular price they are in the $350+ range. Sears makes a copy/clone for around $80 but when I looked at it I could tell immediately the difference in quality.


Another disposable item seems to be BBQ grills. The cheap ones seem to last a couple years before they need major work. Next grill purchase will be a Weber, they have a 10 year warranty on the burners.

My wife thinks that when the grill gets too dirty it is time to throw it away, we get maybe a couple of years out of one. I will only buy the $150 ones. Off subject a bit but the gas bottles for the grill drive me nuts. I swear that they paint them with water color paint. They get rusty in just a couple of months. I did the exchange thing with a tank at a gas station a couple of years ago. When the exchange tank went dry I went back to the same gas station to swap again the gas station manager wouldn't let me. Too rusty.

 

[jay50]

I bought a cheap $10 or $15 space heater for my fiance to use at work because her feet were cold. A few weeks ago she tells me it stopped working so she threw it away! I was was like WTF? I try explaining to her that things can be fixed. I at least could have taken it apart and looked around inside. Every time my car makes some noise she says "time for a new car soon." Its like she wants to throw away the car when it breaks, too!

Not good behavior in a fiance; you might be the next thing she wants to "throw away" when you start having some problems....

 

[jay50]

I paid $1800 for my Frigidaire, 2 years into it, the controls go out and freeze $300 worth of food (3 year/5 year compressor warranty). So, I call them, setup an time, and take the afternoon off work...nobody shows. I call Frigidaire, they have no record of my call, schedule another appt. Nobody shows. Repeat a third time. I got pissed, bought my own controls/tubing/water filter/filter mount (it all froze and cracked) for $250.

2 years later, same **** but out of basic warranty, $300 of food, $250 of parts.

2 months after that, the compressor dies, fridge and freezer get heated to 85*, $300 more of food ruined. I call them up, they want my receipt. Wouldn't you know, I can't find the receipt, BUT, the build date on the fridge was 05/03 (this happened in March this year). So, I explain that obviously, there is NO WAY it could be out of warranty, since it hadn't even been built for 5 years. They say they will do nothing without receipt to show purchase date. I went all the way up the chain of command, they tell me to get bent. I contact the BBB, and they tell me there's plenty of grievances against them, so apparently they don't give a damn.

$1800 fridge, $900 of ruined food, $500 of repair parts, under warranty but not covered, all in 4 years. I have a $3200 stainless steel cabinet that will heat to 85*. I bought an LG. I will never buy Frigidaire/whirlpool/amana/maytag/kenmore appliances again (same model in all lines).

Oh, and my Frigidaire Professional stove blew a big chip out of the glasstop (while nothing was on it) and they tell me that I did it and they won't warranty it.

That's what spending $4,000 with Frigidaire gets you.

Interesting that Whirlpool aways gets high marks in consumer type reviews. I guess they have the largest share of the market and decided to cut quality; to hell with the consumer.

 

[Mike83]

Not good behavior in a fiance; you might be the next thing she wants to "throw away" when you start having some problems....

I keep her happy

 

[Vincent Vega]

How about toasters? WTF. They used to be repairable and would toast bread. Now they come with a 1 foot cord, don't toast worth a ****, and no one will repair them. That's why they cost 10.00 at walmart. Yes, you can spend more. I bought a Hamilton Beach for 50.00. What a POS. I returned it and bought a B&D. Not much better. They have 8 year olds build them and lawyers design them.

 

[hamburglar]

That's what spending $4,000 with Frigidaire gets you.

My running assumption is that:

. There's only about 3 appliance manufacturers (none of whom is called 'Frigidaire' really).
. The most commonly seen brands are the most reliable.
. The cheapest/simplest models are the most reliable.

It's kind of like with Ferraris or exotic computer equipment vs. commodity products. The more of a thing that someone builds, the more of a chance that they absolutely dial in their design, production process, and materials used.

...and heaven help you if you have an ice maker.

 

[billymade]

I've noticed that if you want a high quality small appliance, get a commercial grade restaurant/food industry unit that is used (eBay, flea market etc.); they are built like a tank and are made to be repaired, probably last a lifetime and have parts/service available too!

 

[PAToyota]

Every time my car makes some noise she says "time for a new car soon." Its like she wants to throw away the car when it breaks, too!

Not good behavior in a fiance; you might be the next thing she wants to "throw away" when you start having some problems....

Had a girlfriend a few years ago like that... Anything that went wrong and it was "time to buy a new one"... Not even the idea of having someone else repair it... I tried a couple times to sit down with her and explain that when the dryer broke I ended up spending a couple hours tearing it apart, getting the $10 part, and fixing things - or I could have spent $100 to have the repairman come out and I'd still have had to wait around for him that day - or we could have bought a new dryer for $600... She still thought it would be "easier" to just get the new dryer and couldn't understand my concept that doing so would mean we had $590 less to spend on other things and little guarantee that the new dryer wouldn't have some problem in a couple years...

Needless to say, that didn't last. I just realized that there was no way I could afford her.

I do think that somewhere along the line the general attitude in society has changed. Like others have said, I grew up with parents and grandparents that paid attention to quality and kept things in repair. Although I think that the companies are to blame with the marketing that says that you need "new things" all of the time - but I think it is also that the consumers have adopted the attitude that you buy something and when it breaks you throw it out and buy a new one. The little Mom & Pop repair shops around here have slowly been closing down because nobody brings them anything anymore. A lot of the time, you can't convince people that paying half again as much for something that is going to last three years is cheaper than buying a new one every year...

My current girlfriend's teenage son is on his third X-Box 360... He says it is a known issue that the damn things rarely last more than a year - but is convinced that it is the thing to have and keeps buying them with the money he earns at a part-time job. But this summer he wants to buy a car - he's in for a rude surprise when he realizes he's going to have to make a choice between spending money on a game system that keeps breaking or having money for gas and insurance and any repairs to a beater car he might acquire... Fortunately, his mother is nothing like that when it comes to money and neither of us have quite figured out where he has come up with his attitude about spending money because she certainly doesn't just give him money to spend...

 

[djjsr]

I've noticed that if you want a high quality small appliance, get a commercial grade restaurant/food industry unit that is used (eBay, flea market etc.); they are built like a tank and are made to be repaired, probably last a lifetime and have parts/service available too!

That's probably the same normal stuff you could buy in any store 30 years ago. Still makin 'em, but now they're commercial grade and cost twice as much.

 

[jay50]

I've noticed that if you want a high quality small appliance, get a commercial grade restaurant/food industry unit that is used (eBay, flea market etc.); they are built like a tank and are made to be repaired, probably last a lifetime and have parts/service available too!

I found a used commerical grade washing machine that I had planned to buy and install in the house. Wife nixed the idea because she said she would get tired of feeding it quarters when ever she needed to do a load of laundry...

 

[billymade]

You may have created a new revenue stream for yourself!

 

[jay50]

You may have created a new revenue stream for yourself!

Hmm...a new revenue source for feeding my tool fetish...maybe.

 

[JB740i]

I bought a cheap $10 or $15 space heater for my fiance to use at work because her feet were cold. A few weeks ago she tells me it stopped working so she threw it away! I was was like WTF? I try explaining to her that things can be fixed. I at least could have taken it apart and looked around inside. Every time my car makes some noise she says "time for a new car soon." Its like she wants to throw away the car when it breaks, too!

Um, dude maybe you should think hard about the fiance thing. What if you fart or something?

 

[kvom]

My mother has had the same Kirby for at least 60 years.

My kitchen has a GE refrigerator, KitchenAid dishwasher and ovens, and a Thermador cooktop. No problems with any of them in 15 years.

GE dryer is 25 and going strong. Whirlpool; washer is only 10, so the jury is still out.

 

[ricleh]

If you are really interested in quality appliances you should check out Miele. They are a German manufacturer and make the best appliances in the world IMO. I have a washer, dryer, dishwasher, oven, cooktop and 2 vacuum cleaners and have never had a problem with any of them. All are over 25 years old except one of the vacuums. They are not cheap, but for quality and energy efficiency you can't go wrong with Miele products.


Rick

 

[PoorOwner]

I finally cough up for a dyson animal.. mainly it's got a good warranty ( 5 years )
it really does clean better.. We have 2 cats and a lot of cat hair, and the kitty liter is hard on vacuum's bearings and probably the motor too..

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I love living in London, because no matter what it is, i can get parts within a week at the most. if my fridge breaks, i can get the parts the same day. when the lid on my kitchen trash can broke, we got a new catch in like a day, and free too.

it extends to anything, and not everything comes from within london, but i'm good with sourcing parts. like an E65 BMW 745i at work, no-one in Europe had the headgaskets, BMW quoted me "months" to get them. i phone up Global Imports in atlanta and had them four days later.

i'll rebuild anything, regardless what it is.

oh, and Dyson FTL.

 

[billymade]

There are some benefits to living in a big city and parts availability probably is one of them; if you know the right people to call. Is the UK flooded with the same chinese junk that we have here in the USA?

 

[MarkH]

From my travels the world is flooded with it and would like to send it back. Same complaints we have.

 

[Hip2u77]

How about toasters? WTF. They used to be repairable and would toast bread. Now they come with a 1 foot cord, don't toast worth a ****, and no one will repair them. That's why they cost 10.00 at walmart. Yes, you can spend more. I bought a Hamilton Beach for 50.00. What a POS. I returned it and bought a B&D. Not much better. They have 8 year olds build them and lawyers design them.

You're not lying. My parents have a Toastmaster that is still working just fine. They got it for a wedding gift. . . 46 years ago. This is even the automatic one with a motor that you just drop the toast in and it lowers it automatically, and you push a button to raise it.

Mom thought she was doing me a favor when she got me a Toastmaster last Christmas. Doesn't toast worth a ****, but it will burn the hell out of you in no time flat.

 

[SteveV]

I often do get annoyed with the disposal nature of products nowadays, but I think one thing people often don't realize is how much cheaper many of these these items now are.

20 years ago, you bought an $1000 (inflation adjusted) VCR that was built like a tank, and had to pay a specialist $80 every time it needed a repair. Nowadays, you buy a $30 DVD player (which would be the equivalent of $10 back then), you get a few years out of it, and can just throw it away when it breaks down. The same was true with televisions. A 25" TV 20 years ago was a major investment for a family, now it's pocket change. The same is true with appliances. You can get a new dishwasher for $150. Adjusting for inflation, appliances weren't that inexpensive years ago.

You can buy high-quality, long lasting items, but most people (including me) are just too cheap to buy them. I would rather buy an $80 vacuum than a $500 commercial one. Same with appliances, I would rather buy a $500 refrigerator than a $5,000 Sub-zero, even though the Sub-Zero will probably last 30 years.

I really blame our disposable culture more on the consumers, not manufacturers. I'm sure manufacturers would prefer to build more high-quality, expensive goods, there's usually a much higher profit margin. Consumers, however, just want cheap, new things rather than making a big, initial investment on something we're forced to keep for many years.

I can't say I always blame them.

 

[T56 Impala]

We have gone thru one vacuum about every 18 months since 1998. We need a new one now but with a maid who brings her own, we've been putting it off. The reason for our destruction has been our dogs. Long hair duel coated dogs. They will eat one up in a hurry. We have used and still use the Hoover Wind Tunnels. The pick up better than anything I have tried. Even the industrial units we used in industry. (I know these well. Easy to fix but don't pick up ****)

I try to fix them. Simple bearings, switches and such. The motor its self is not user friendly. Well, not for me it isn't. We also go through carpet cleaners pretty regularly. Same situation, dogs and kids.

My mother, 75, is still using the same one we had when I was a teenager. Its a Hoover canister vac. I know she got a new hose for it a while back. Her dryer is another great story. It's from 1964! Its gone through 3 kids and several moves in the military. I honestly don't know what brand it is. I know dad replaces the heating coils about every 10 years or so and I know the timer has been changes 2 or 3 times. The motor has never been touched as far as I know. Dad just does a good clean up whenever the back is off it and it works great.

The matching washer for that dryer died about 12 years ago. I know this because it was a day or two before my wedding. Something let go and it flooded the whole room. I think they replaced it only because so much was going on at that time.

Its too bad things are **** these days. I have the high end Bosch front loader set. When they were about 6 months old, the washer wouldn't drain. I check for a clog, back flushed and did everything I knew how to do. No luck. I called the repair folks to come take a look at it. The pump wasn't working and needed to be replaced. It is a sealed unit and can't be repaired. The cost? $450 for the PART!!!! $250 to replace it.

I told the guy that we would get back to him. I wanted to argue with the warranty folks over this one. My wife came home and seeing the washer was reassembled, she started a load. Suddenly is started making a huge racket! I ran down stairs and turned it off. The only way to drain the water was to pull the clean out cover off of the FRONT of the pump. (no access in the rear of it) What did I find? An infants sock jammed in the impeller! I pulled it out and it has been fine ever since. If the pump had been made to take apart I could have fixed this with ease! I nearly spent $700 for nothing.

Things are designed to fall apart. Its all greed on the part of the manufacturers. Greed and good business are two different things that have somehow become one. Its very sad.