TIG instead of MIG

[Tscott]

I've done a little bit of both, though my TIG setup was pretty rough, consisting of an old stick welder and an add on TIG torch. It was scratch start only and the amperage adjustment was pretty limited due to the rough nature of the adjustment on the stick welder.

My question is if you only have the cash for 1 welder is it better to splurge on a TIG and use it for all your work? I know they are slower and require a bit more prep, but I would think that what time you lost in setup and working would be easily picked back up by not having to grind as much on things like body panels.

Thoughts?

Tom

 

[Cudajas]

What types of projects are you working on?

 

[ChevyIINova]

The Miller Diverson 165 is a great affordable basic Tig........ Price compare able to a new Mig. You can weld more types of materials with a Tig so it a little more universals BUT it takes more skill/practice and is a slower process...... I agree with the question of what are you welding as that determines more of what choice to make. No place for a tig on a farm....

 

[Zeke]

I've done a little bit of both, though my TIG setup was pretty rough, consisting of an old stick welder and an add on TIG torch. It was scratch start only and the amperage adjustment was pretty limited due to the rough nature of the adjustment on the stick welder.

My question is if you only have the cash for 1 welder is it better to splurge on a TIG and use it for all your work? I know they are slower and require a bit more prep, but I would think that what time you lost in setup and working would be easily picked back up by not having to grind as much on things like body panels.

Thoughts?

Tom

What types of projects are you working on?

Hello? Anyone home?

To the OP, if panels is your main target, by all means get a TIG. But you'll need more than the welder and the torch. At least a foot pedal if not a hand control. Pulsing, spot, the works. Otherwise get decent MIG.

Look up silicone bronze wire and argon gas using a MIG.

 

[raddksn]

I bought a Lincoln 225 amp tig that will also stick weld ac, dc straight or reverse and never looked back I love it! I do mostly home/hobbie stuff.

I am saving for a mig in the 180+Range But this Lincoln does everything I nead for now.

 

[JoeFin]

My LN-25 is collecting dust

TIG and never look back

 

[zkling]

For MY work, a TIG, but since my work isn't YOUR work that may or may not be a good solution for you.

What types of projects are you working on?

Be as specific as possible

 

[bad12jr]

I have a mig and stick. If I can't do it with a mig the stick will. I'd love to have and learn tig but I haven't ran into anything in 10 years of home/racing that I couldn't get done with a mig. A tig would have been very nice in a few situations though.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[56vette461]

I have also been researching the purchase of a tig welder. If I start doing more aluminium work than I currently do, I will definitely pick up a Tig. For now my Miller 211 with a spool gun set to do my aluminium projects seems to work just fine. I have to agree with the previous writers, it is all in what you intend to do. For now I do have some access to a production work Lincoln tig, and I have tried to develop a few of the basic skills needed. Good luck in your search. Keep us posted.

 

[rsanter]

There are some really nice TIG/mig set ups out there that are DC for welding steel that can be had for $800 to $1000.
Then you have the benefit of both.
You could use it for aluminum too but because it's DC you will not have a clean oxidation free weld.
You could still use the AC arc welder you have to doing aluminum and even find yourself a hi-freq box for it

Bob

 

[sberry]

I'd love to have and learn tig but I haven't ran into anything in 10 years of home/racing that I couldn't get done with a mig

This is closer to the truth than the other way around, if you don't have a 200 or better mig you need one, its the real workhorse in small shops.

 

[dr_clyde]

Depends on the class of work you're doing, and whether you value versatility amd precision over cheap and quick. There are no weldable metals that cannot be TIG welded. TIG is a reliable, pre qualified welding process that is clean and the ultimate in versatility.

MIG is inexpensive and quick, but doesn't have the versatility of TIG. Don't get me wrong, MIG is very useful. For most MILD STEEL welding, MIG is perfectly acceptable. Sure you can get a spoolgun for aluminum, trimix gas for stainless, ect. For most guys, MIG is limited to just steel. I use my MM 211 and my Lincoln invertec v300 pro a ton for the quick steel jobs.

A lot of my work entails stainless steel sheet metal and stainless sanitary piping. Not only would a MIG be innapropriate asthetically, it would be extremely difficult to pass code inspections. A TIG is a must for my shop.

If I could only have 1 welder, I'd have a Miller Dynasty 350. If I was allowed a second, I'd have a Millermatic 350p. But, I weld for a living.

For the home hobby shop welder setup, I'd have a miller syncrowave 180 and a millermatic 211. You can weld just about anything up to 1/4" with that combo. Attainable for about $1500 each used. If I knew for sure I didn't want to TIG aluminum, I'd get a Miller multimatic 200. MIG TIG and stick all in one box.

 

[Tscott]

Right now I'll be mostly doing body panels on cars, so steel will be the name of the game but in the future who knows what I'll want to weld. My whole thought was that I'm not in a production environment so the speed of a MIG isn't much of a benefit and if I'm going to drop $1500 on a welder, I'd like it to be as versatile as possible. Also, I've got my trusty stick welder for anything really heavy duty. How does TIG do on thicker stock? I know it's good for really thin stuff but I've never really investigated its upper thickness limit.

Tom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zeke]

If you have a 200 amp TIG and a water cooled torch you can lay down some nice passes on just about anything.

 

[BD1]

Get the 211 MILLER now, and then go for a tig later. Easy grind wire has been a favorite wire for body work.

 

[justanengineer]

JMHO, but MIG doesnt belong in the home shop. A smaller stick/tig machine will handle anything you need to do and get you top quality welds not possible by 99% of the population with a MIG.

The three biggest misconceptions Ive seen about welding.

1. MIG is easy. In reality, the basic mechanics of the process are easy (position the gun, pull the trigger), getting a high quality weld isnt. This is the #1 reason why many schools teach it last.

2. TIG is difficult. The reason you get quality from TIG is bc you can go as slow as you want and can easily control the process. Slow the process down to nitpick your work, and its dead nuts simple to learn.

3. TIG is slow. Its just as fast if not faster than MIG if you add a wire feeder. I see guys every day that have two pedals controlling the torch and a feeder, they clamp multiple panels of different thicknesses in a jig and just go down the line without stopping to readjust the machine as required with MIG. They can literally weld up a structural steel frame then weld sheetmetal to the frame without stopping the arc.

 

[dr_clyde]

Right now I'll be mostly doing body panels on cars, so steel will be the name of the game but in the future who knows what I'll want to weld. My whole thought was that I'm not in a production environment so the speed of a MIG isn't much of a benefit and if I'm going to drop $1500 on a welder, I'd like it to be as versatile as possible. Also, I've got my trusty stick welder for anything really heavy duty. How does TIG do on thicker stock? I know it's good for really thin stuff but I've never really investigated its upper thickness limit.

Tom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thickness limitations of TIG are dependent on a couple of factors. Amperage of the machine, power supplied to the machine, and size of the torch.

I have welded 1/2" aluminum on a syncrowave 351. I was using about 250 amps. That was about the thickest I have regularly welded in a single pass. It was hot enough that I can't say as I'd want to weld thicker.

TIG torches are rated for amperage. I have a 350 amp torch, and it's very thick and heavy. I have some 1/4" tungstens for it, but i haven't needed them yet. Most common water cooled torches are the #20 size and are rated for 250 amps. That will do more than your typical household circuits can provide. Standard air cooled torches are good for anywhere from 150-200 amps.

Your standard hobby machine is usually good for 180 amps or so at about a 20% duty cycle. This will weld quite a bit of thickness ranges, but I'd be skeptical of any hobby machine saying it can do more than 3/16" steel in a single pass.

For some reason, people are obsessed with welding stuff in a single pass. Just about any machine can do a **** weld in any thickness if the base metal has been ground to a vee and prepped properly. Pretty much, if you can get a puddle, you can weld it. It just takes longer.

 

[Engine]

The three biggest misconceptions Ive seen about welding.

1. MIG is easy. In reality, the basic mechanics of the process are easy (position the gun, pull the trigger), getting a high quality weld isnt. This is the #1 reason why many schools teach it last.

I agree with that. I'm not an expert, but I have done some mig welding and it can be a little tricky for me on thicker metal. After enough practice it's not too hard to lay down a fine looking bead with GMAW but the penetration into the base metal may not be all that great.

I had that proven to me a few weeks ago when I took some coupons in to a welding instructor friend at a local college to bend test them. It was 1/2" mild steel that I welded in 3g position. The plate was beveled to a 60 deg. angle and had a root pass, hot pass, and three stringer bead cover pass. Every pass looked great when I was doing it, but out of three coupons, one showed a crack and one broke completely. Both failures were along the weld edges on the cover side of the plate. This tells me that the penetration was poor between the weld metal and the sides of the bevel. But, like I said, the welds "looked" great. That could cause major problems in fabricated structures that endure high stress. At this point, I'm not sure what to do to improve the quality of the welds. I think running it a little hotter will help, but it's hard to say. The instructor agreed that mig welds can be hard to evaluate visually.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Every pass looked great when I was doing it, but out of three coupons, one showed a crack and one broke completely. Both failures were along the weld edges on the cover side of the plate. This tells me that the penetration was poor between the weld metal and the sides of the bevel. But, like I said, the welds "looked" great.

This is the biggest issue for rookies with MIG. They can look great and not be great. I'm guessing practice and knowing/understanding the correct settings is the difference.

Would TIG make a rookie produce better welds ?


Somewhat related ... This guy is trying to build a high pressure (2,000 psi) test chamber. The main body is schedule 80, 10" diameter steel pipe. It is 1/2" thick. The end cap, natch ring and hatch are all made of 1/2" steel. All surfaces were ground and beveled. 3 passes of MIG were made, with grinding and inspection in between. While he is not a pro, he has literally laid down miles of wire (another story). Watch these videoes and see his frustration !

Hyperbaric Test Chamber - Part 2 - 650 psi
Hyperbaric Test Chamber - Part 3 - 1600 psi

 

[sberry]

Mig should be the starting point for small shops, it does the work. I got them all and while I do use some stick as a career welder I could just about do without it and tig is way down on the list.

If there is a burning special need than its a different matter but for the general home brew deal, hobby and maintenance any advice to start anywhere other than a mig is generally suspect. While it might seem ideal at first to be able to weld anything under the sun its expensive and more rare than one would be led to believe.

 

[sberry]

I think running it a little hotter will help,

Yes it will.

Here is a simple coupon. Welded 1 pass from one side and I left a little spot so one could see the gap and to let it break. If I do it right and grind flush it wont. Last pic is the backside.
I actually like wire in some cases especially multi pass where storage of lo hi is an issue. There is so much to it I cant remember it all but there are a couple minor flavor changes to wire that help with shock and impact etc but this isn't much to do with someone asking a first machine question.

I will agree that the 211 and the synch package is a good combination,,, I could do without the synch and would trade it for a Maxstar 150S. I search out and pay or trade someone a few bucks on the rare occasion I absolutely had to have a tig.

 

[countryroad82]

This is just my personal jab at this. Since the op is doing bodywork I'll talk about my personal experiences. I do a lot of bodywork, that said I use a mig. A couple years ago I attempted to learn TIG. What I found was 1. I'm left handed I live in a right handed world so it's hard for most anyone to teach me anything that requires hand control lol. 2. I like to see production, mostly because I do more collision work anymore so I found TIG waaayyyy too slow for me. I feel I can have a weld layed down and ground down, mudded and drying by the time you get done with all the prep work plus working your foot/ hand control and such. That may not be true but that is how I feel, I will say I would like to get a TIG machine one day mainly for welds that are not going to be hidden like rollcages and such.
So OP my reccomendation would be buy a decent mig and for bigger stuff search around and find an old Lincoln tombstone, and you're in business for dang near anything IMO.

 

[ADSR]

JMHO, but MIG doesnt belong in the home shop. A smaller stick/tig machine will handle anything you need to do and get you top quality welds not possible by 99% of the population with a MIG.

The three biggest misconceptions Ive seen about welding.

1. MIG is easy. In reality, the basic mechanics of the process are easy (position the gun, pull the trigger), getting a high quality weld isnt. This is the #1 reason why many schools teach it last.

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

MIG is easy. Schools here and in the US are pumping kids out with these skills because MIG is for fast production which is in demand. 90% of MIG is machine setup, 10% is skill. TIG is 10% machine setup, and 90% skill. Anyone who would choose stick over MIG in a home, wouldn't be doing themselves any favors.

 

[R.Anderson]

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

MIG is easy. Schools here and in the US are pumping kids out with these skills because MIG is for fast production which is in demand. 90% of MIG is machine setup, 10% is skill. TIG is 10% machine setup, and 90% skill. Anyone who would choose stick over MIG in a home, wouldn't be doing themselves any favors.

I agree with LORDDiESEL 100%, GMAW(MIG) is for fast/high production work not GTAW(TIG). I have seen automatic wirefeed GTAW machine setups it was no way faster than a GMAW setup operated by a person. The tech here spends more time on GMAW not because its hard but of all the processes in all possible positions for each (short arc, spray, pulse spray, flux, stainless, aluminum with push pull guns). GMAW is king for a reason, easy setup, fast and easy to learn, speed, many different applications/processes, and I'm sure there are more reasons. GMAW is only getting better Miller has machines now that pulse not just the arc but the wire as well along with alot of other settings. Getting a bit off topic there.

Choosing between GTAW or GMAW hmm tough one that is why I have both. With GTAW you don't need the foot pedal or hand control to control the amps for welding steel, you can just use lift arc. Stainless pipe fitters around here don't use pedals or amp hand controls, slows them down and its a hassle think of trying use a pedal an a ladder not going to work. The only time I use a pedal is for aluminum or tiny thin parts. Those amp hand controls that you roll that kinda sliding track deal **** IMO hurts the thumb as well as screws op your handling of the torch.

If planning on doing aluminum and or stainless along with steel I would look into a TIG machine if just steel MIG machine.

 

[justanengineer]

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

MIG is easy. Schools here and in the US are pumping kids out with these skills because MIG is for fast production which is in demand. 90% of MIG is machine setup, 10% is skill. TIG is 10% machine setup, and 90% skill. Anyone who would choose stick over MIG in a home, wouldn't be doing themselves any favors.

Nope, I dunno what Im talking about, Im justanengineer....hence my screenname. I'd suggest you showed how little you know when you started talking about setup vs skill, youre way off and it shows. Skill is rather irrelevent when you have full control of the process like you do with TIG, hence why its easier to learn. Not sure what schools youre referring to that pump out production MIG weldors, everybody I went to school with either went to job shops or work construction via the ironworkers/pipefitters/boilermakers/other unions, not production shops. Production MIG is typically pretty sloppy and has a pretty significant factor of safety designed into it, many companies hire off the street for that type of work, train in-house, and it shows in the product, but the company wins by paying someone $12/hr instead of $20+. For the hobbyist who doesnt know **** about weld prep or joint design, doesnt have other eyes in QA/QC judging their work, and needs quality and versatility more than anything, TIG really cant be beat.

Not that its significant or any major accomplishment, but I hold current 6g GTAW and SMAW certs, have held DOT certs, spent a summer with the ironworkers in college, and now regularly design both weldments and work with production teams to setup the process.

 

[mark52621]

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

MIG is easy. Schools here and in the US are pumping kids out with these skills because MIG is for fast production which is in demand. 90% of MIG is machine setup, 10% is skill. TIG is 10% machine setup, and 90% skill. Anyone who would choose stick over MIG in a home, wouldn't be doing themselves any favors.

I just got back from the Iowa Power Show, a convention of companies showing machinery to farmers, and was not impressed by these "kids with skill". I saw a $90,000 skidloader with a undercut weld next to a cold weld on the same piece of steel.

My point is that a certified welder working for john deere on a showcase product couldn't get it right with a mig, what chance does someone self taught at home?

By the time you learn to make a good looking bead with with a stick or tig welder, you can recognize a good or bad weld. If you can make a decent weld with a stick welder, buy what ever you want.

Mig is great, especially for sheet metal, but can give you a false sense of security in your welds. Tig is great for everything, and if you don't feel confident with it switch leads and use it as a stick welder.

 

[mechan]

I just got back from the Iowa Power Show, a convention of companies showing machinery to farmers, and was not impressed by these "kids with skill". I saw a $90,000 skidloader with a undercut weld next to a cold weld on the same piece of steel.

My point is that a certified welder working for john deere on a showcase product couldn't get it right with a mig, what chance does someone self taught at home?

By the time you learn to make a good looking bead with with a stick or tig welder, you can recognize a good or bad weld. If you can make a decent weld with a stick welder, buy what ever you want.

Mig is great, especially for sheet metal, but can give you a false sense of security in your welds. Tig is great for everything, and if you don't feel confident with it switch leads and use it as a stick welder.

So, how deep and how much undercut was there? Did you pull your v-wac gage out of your pocket and measure the possible disqualifying discontinuity? What code was the loader constructed to? If it was within code then it is not a disqualifying discontinuity. Even D1.1 allows a certain amount of discontinuities before they are considered disqualifying. For that matter the same is true for the welding that occurs on air craft.

Who is to say that the welder who made those welds was certified and not a "qualified" welder? Welding in a production environment is no different than machining in a production environment. You are given a set of tolerances and you stay within those tolerances. The tighter the tolerances the more money the product is going to cost. If you do not need a part machined to +0.0000, - 0.0005" then you DO NOT ask for it because there is no need to spend that type of money. Welding is no different in this aspect.

I would wager that the chances of a guy at home making sound welds with a wire feeder are probably much higher than that of a tig rig. If the only place that wire feeders shined was sheet metal then you would really break the heart of a lot of industries. There is a reason that GTAW is traditionally one of the last processes you learn, but what do I know I didn't spend "one summer with the ironworkers between college."

OP, look at one of the Miller 211's like others have suggested they are great setups. You can do mild steel, stainless, or aluminum with one. If you have a welder that you can hook a portable tig rig up to then get proficient with that. Having HF, pulse arc, or a remote are great, but there are plenty of nuke plants, paper mills, power houses, and miles of other piping that passed NDT just fine with a portable rig.

 

[dr_clyde]

justanengineer is right. MIG is the most difficult to learn. It's super easy to point the hot glue gun at the metal and puddle up a decent looking bead, only to have it be cold lapped with lack of fusion in the root. It takes a long time to learn what it looks like when a weld is penetrating correctly, and to find out how the puddle reacts to changes in the arc length, voltage, and base metal temperature. This is why MIG is taught last in welding school.

I use MIG every day. It is indispensable in industry. It is not, however, a one size fits all solution to welding. There is a reason that MIG welding is not a prequalified welding process like TIG and stick. It is UNRELIABLE in untrained or less experienced hands.

 

[mechan]

justanengineer is right. MIG is the most difficult to learn. It's super easy to point the hot glue gun at the metal and puddle up a decent looking bead, only to have it be cold lapped with lack of fusion in the root. It takes a long time to learn what it looks like when a weld is penetrating correctly, and to find out how the puddle reacts to changes in the arc length, voltage, and base metal temperature. This is why MIG is taught last in welding school.

I use MIG every day. It is indispensable in industry. It is not, however, a one size fits all solution to welding. There is a reason that MIG welding is not a prequalified welding process like TIG and stick. It is UNRELIABLE in untrained or less experienced hands.

Since when isn't GMAW prequalified? Perhaps you mean GMAW-S? Every welding school teaches GMAW last? Facts seem to be lacking, just saying.

Also, if you are working under D1.1 GTAW is not a prequalified process it is a code approved process unlike GMAW and FCAW which is prequalified. Which code are you referring to? If we are splitting hairs about approved processes usually in the states MIG and TIG aren't really the "code applicable nomenclature" GMAW and GTAW would be. Unless you are doing most of your work in Europe?

 

[mark52621]

sounds like I gave offense to a pipeline welder, just my guess, by using the word certified. Sorry, I'm just a simple farmer with a BS degree in mechanical engineering. And we all know what BS stands for. I also do my best to be politically uncorrect as possible.

I am just using a recent, personal, first hand account as a device to show the op that it is very easy to make a bad weld, in my opinion, especially with mig.

(I'm also to dumb to highlight text different colors so this might be hard to follow.)

So, how deep and how much undercut was there? Did you pull your v-wac gage out of your pocket and measure the possible disqualifying discontinuity? What code was the loader constructed to? If it was within code then it is not a disqualifying discontinuity. Even D1.1 allows a certain amount of discontinuities before they are considered disqualifying. For that matter the same is true for the welding that occurs on air craft.

Who is to say that the welder who made those welds was certified and not a "qualified" welder? Welding in a production environment is no different than machining in a production environment. You are given a set of tolerances and you stay within those tolerances. The tighter the tolerances the more money the product is going to cost. If you do not need a part machined to +0.0000, - 0.0005" then you DO NOT ask for it because there is no need to spend that type of money. Welding is no different in this aspect.

So many questions:

Only thing I had was my wallet and checkbook. The paint wasn't thick enough to cover the undercut and the cold weld was fatter then he worms on my tomato plants in summer. Not what I wanted to see on a brace for the highest stressed location on the lift arms.

I don't know what self imposed iso standard it meets. I do know the salesman there had never operated, built, or designed anything in his life. Nor do I care. I just looked at a machine, I saw the price and the build quality and walked away.

"certified and not a 'qualified' welder?" Don't know don't care, it might have been done by a robot programed by a mechanical engineer. I do know you can't walk in the door say your a welder and be hired by john deere to work on their production line.



I would wager that the chances of a guy at home making sound welds with a wire feeder are probably much higher than that of a tig rig. If the only place that wire feeders shined was sheet metal then you would really break the heart of a lot of industries. There is a reason that GTAW is traditionally one of the last processes you learn, but what do I know I didn't spend "one summer with the ironworkers between college."

This is a great question. I agree with you, I think the chances for a good weld is better with a mig than tig. I however maintain it is easier to know it is a good weld with a stick or tig, than it is with mig. If I had access to students I would love to test this. Fifteen students five each mig, tig, stick and a bunch of coupons. Three welding processes enter one leaves, thunderdome....




OP, look at one of the Miller 211's like others have suggested they are great setups. You can do mild steel, stainless, or aluminum with one. If you have a welder that you can hook a portable tig rig up to then get proficient with that. Having HF, pulse arc, or a remote are great, but there are plenty of nuke plants, paper mills, power houses, and miles of other piping that passed NDT just fine with a portable rig.

This is absolutely correct. Practice with what you've got until your good with it, then buy what you want

 

[mechan]

sounds like I gave offense to a pipeline welder, just my guess, by using the word certified. Sorry, I'm just a simple farmer with a BS degree in mechanical engineering. And we all know what BS stands for. I also do my best to be politically uncorrect as possible.

I am just using a recent, personal, first hand account as a device to show the op that it is very easy to make a bad weld, in my opinion, especially with mig.

(I'm also to dumb to highlight text different colors so this might be hard to follow.)

So, how deep and how much undercut was there? Did you pull your v-wac gage out of your pocket and measure the possible disqualifying discontinuity? What code was the loader constructed to? If it was within code then it is not a disqualifying discontinuity. Even D1.1 allows a certain amount of discontinuities before they are considered disqualifying. For that matter the same is true for the welding that occurs on air craft.

Who is to say that the welder who made those welds was certified and not a "qualified" welder? Welding in a production environment is no different than machining in a production environment. You are given a set of tolerances and you stay within those tolerances. The tighter the tolerances the more money the product is going to cost. If you do not need a part machined to +0.0000, - 0.0005" then you DO NOT ask for it because there is no need to spend that type of money. Welding is no different in this aspect.

So many questions:

Only thing I had was my wallet and checkbook. The paint wasn't thick enough to cover the undercut and the cold weld was fatter then he worms on my tomato plants in summer. Not what I wanted to see on a brace for the highest stressed location on the lift arms.

I don't know what self imposed iso standard it meets. I do know the salesman there had never operated, built, or designed anything in his life. Nor do I care. I just looked at a machine, I saw the price and the build quality and walked away.

"certified and not a 'qualified' welder?" Don't know don't care, it might have been done by a robot programed by a mechanical engineer. I do know you can't walk in the door say your a welder and be hired by john deere to work on their production line.



I would wager that the chances of a guy at home making sound welds with a wire feeder are probably much higher than that of a tig rig. If the only place that wire feeders shined was sheet metal then you would really break the heart of a lot of industries. There is a reason that GTAW is traditionally one of the last processes you learn, but what do I know I didn't spend "one summer with the ironworkers between college."

This is a great question. I agree with you, I think the chances for a good weld is better with a mig than tig. I however maintain it is easier to know it is a good weld with a stick or tig, than it is with mig. If I had access to students I would love to test this. Fifteen students five each mig, tig, stick and a bunch of coupons. Three welding processes enter one leaves, thunderdome....




OP, look at one of the Miller 211's like others have suggested they are great setups. You can do mild steel, stainless, or aluminum with one. If you have a welder that you can hook a portable tig rig up to then get proficient with that. Having HF, pulse arc, or a remote are great, but there are plenty of nuke plants, paper mills, power houses, and miles of other piping that passed NDT just fine with a portable rig.

This is absolutely correct. Practice with what you've got until your good with it, then buy what you want

One of the Welding OEMs that makes red welders has been doing 'short term proficiency to pass' welding test studies with their virtual reality welding setups. To my understanding they have had the best results (e.g. shortest time in VR to passing in real life) with a wire feeder. I do not know as they have data points specific to SMAW vs. GTAW vs. GMAW, but it was my understanding talking with one of the consultants that he is able to turn out people with little to no experience with welding to pass the AWS GMAW plate tests in a very short amount of time. (Note this is not a learn how to manipulate the dials, history of welding, and what not sort of exercise. It is a time of stinger in hand to time of acceptable weld exercise to my understanding.)

Aesthetically the weld may have no looked good on the tractor, but if it met code requirements then you will more times than not get the bare minimum to do so in todays world. Engineering is done on a pretty short life cycle compared to what it use to be.

FYI, I am not and never have been a pipeliner. I lack the require drawl, pancake hood, and SA200.

 

[Autorotica]

Why not buy a cheap 110 mig to get started with the automotive work so you have that and save up and look for a good deal on a quality Tig after?

Chris

 

[mark52621]

"FYI, I am not and never have been a pipeliner. I lack the require drawl, pancake hood, and SA200."

Now that is funny, because its true. I do know one pipeliner without drawl, but only one. Although he now works for a railroad. So much for the exception to the rule.

I'm sure it was strong enough, but for a premium price I want some pride taken in the construction. Its just lazy not to do better.

I know a self taught welder who started with tig. He knew nothing about welding when he started, he didn't know the difference between mig, tig or stick. He just bought a machine and started welding. In a short period of time he could make some beautiful welds. It makes me wonder if it was easy for him because he didn't know tig was supposed to be hard to learn.

 

[ADSR]

Nope, I dunno what Im talking about, Im justanengineer....hence my screenname.

You're right, you don't know. Most engineers i know are know-it-all's too. You love to throw that out there like it means something. You guys are a dime a dozen and just complicate matters.

 

[Tscott]

Well, this got out hand quickly. I appreciate all the constructive advice.

Tom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[theknurl]

been welding for a long time(58years) last thing I got was a 200 Amp MIG

buy a used transformer machine on Craigslist $800-1,000 for everything.....machine, torch, pedal, reg, tank and probably water cooler(I hate them, noisy POS)

thats a machine will go 375 Amps TIG (which is silly) or STICK, single pass is down to what your hand can take heat wise

don't forget with TIG if it can be welded, TIG will do it......

BUT, with stick there is ROD for everything, like the ones with tungsten carbide @ 92R'C' for wear resistance......try that with MIG

NB;
you can get Boron Nitride crystals in a tube to gas weld to horse shoes......nonslip ponies on concrete......but don't run your cutting pony around the LA Forum hallways.....Jerry Buss will get pissed at the skid marks......

yes, my buddy "The Roper" did it LOLOL

Jerry's daughter was on the back of the horse

holding on for her life......

 

[azhatchback]

check out this website. Lots of good info on various welding:
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/.
Hobart 110v MIG with .023 wire & C25 sheild gas is what I like to use on body panels. On 18 gauge I weld an inch at a time moving to opposite sides each time. Anything thiner I stack spot welds to make a solid bead. This helps reduce warping. Like others said it really depends on the project.

 

[sberry]

I got to agree with the don't know crowd here. Anyone gibing a first timer here and advice to buy anything other than a 211 doesn't know and I think the certifications are irrelevant here. I had my first one at 19 Ironworking too and didn't know much about welding and don't today. justenginner is smarter, knows more about it now than I ever will, in the future will learn way faster and I will never catch up but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, engineer or not FOS here on this subject. He will never do the work and 1000's of jobs I have done, most days I do more than one.

I barely got a drivers license let alone a college degree but I got a little talent for lack of a better word for what I do. Its not earth shattering but along with that have a pretty colorful and varied resume,,, well I don't actually have one but if I did it would have some highs and lows including some world class highly inspected stick and feeder,,, all position and around too but there aint no way today if I was telling a friend this would be telling him anything else but a 180 or better mig, no way no how have they invented anything better for this crowd.
If a guy needs or wants something else later its a different matter but this should be the starting point. I own them all, its hands down the most profitable machine I have ever owned, granted I didn't apply myself with the others but I had been welding 10 years before I slummed in to a shop where small mig was the predominate process, I had never learned, never ran one but a pinch and wasn't impressed and the shop owner described it some way I cant remember but even though he didjnt know squat about welding anything but wire and 7014 knew that plain as day.

 

[sberry]

Telling him to get a 300A tig is pitiful poor advice also, that's not a personal insult it just is. Hobart had his picture pinned to the wall while they were perfecting it. This makes a case that experience isn't always accurate. Its the reason the guy at Airgas is a good salesman and he cant strike arc. He steers people to a machine that is right for them.

 

[sberry]

Tom,

I like versatility so the choice would be relatively easy for me. I would go with a nice Tig set-up. The ability to run very nice beads in body panels with very little prep for filler is a huge plus for me as I don't like to do bodywork to start with. Also the ability to switch to DC stick gives you a lot of flexibility. I'm AWS Certified in DC Stick on Pipe so I'm familiar with the process. Having these (2) processes in one machine makes it a smart decision for me.

Motoretro

This experience is highly prejudiced, while its an easy decision for you dosent mean its good for the op. Every so often we get someone that goes to a comm college and comes back with the impression that they need a Dialarc "like he one in school" ,, so they can run 5/32 lo-hi continuous and this becomes a common reference point,,, this is great if your daddy is an excavating contractor, a lot of broken machinery in the yard but the kid has a one lane view at that point.