TIG questions

[rsanter]

a couple of TIG questions for you guys

I want a TIG for home/hobby use.
I dont like cheap tools or bottom of the line tools but I dont want to spend way more than needed for way too much machine.
most of my use will be automotive and light fabrication
need to do steel, stainless, and aluminum

2 questions
there is a LINCOLIN ELE. SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG/STICK WELDER for sale local that the guy wants $1200 for with the bottle. pictures look to be in good shape.
what do you guys think of this machine?

at one time I had my eye on the econotig my miller. what do you guys think of that machine?

if I were to go buy a new one today (or really in febuary), what would you guys buy?

bob

 

[t100]

a hobby sized(80cf) argon tank is about $150 with the first fill free of charge. I just bought one.

I could buy a same welder couple months ago for $650 without tank. I passed on it because I'm aiming at a higher power and newer PT 225. I'll wait till I got a good deal, and before I can find one, I can use the ones at school for free.

If I were you, I would get a brand new Miller Diversion165, $1200 shipped. these inverter welders are amazingly efficient and the true square wave AC makes good aluminum beads. plus it's light, you can carry it around the house with one hand.

I've tried both, I like the Diversion 165 hands down.

 

[Jared]

I dont know anything about that machine but make sure it has high frequency for aluminum.

 

[Mickey_D]

The econotigs sorta ****. Very much an entry level machine and pretty hard to weld with. I almost bought an econtig last year and after some research and trying one out, I waited and found a nice Syncowave 250 and just love it. It is a real beast of a machine that will just about weld down to aluminum foil with some practice. The SD 180 and newer 200's are basically the same machines, just scaled down a little. I have used one of the newer inverter machines and it did weld nice, but on major tool purchases I like the tried and tested older technology. BTY, make sure that whatever you get has a water cooled torch, the air cooled ones are not very pleasant when you turn them up high.

 

[t100]

I want a TIG for home/hobby use.

$1200

Inverter power source isn't new, it has been around and proven good. I think the OP would like to have a SW250, but that doesn't fit what he needs.

 

[Steve from Socal]

I agree with t100; a Diversion 165 is a good entry level welder and I can't stress enough how you will love the inverter over a transformer machine in every way. I have a Dynasty 300 and I would never go back to a transformer machine. Another welder to keep your eyes peeled for is a Dynasty 200DX; they get crazy prices on ebay but I bought one with a big argon bottle 3/4 full and a foot pedal and case for 2100.00 with 3 hours on it off Craig's list.

Steve

 

[gofastman]

I like the Precision TIG 185 much more than the Square Wave 175.

 

[Metric]

I would think hard before buying the Diversion 165 to make sure I can live with the limitations: fixed AC freq, no control on post flow, foot pedal extra, torch is kinda hardwired (and thus no stick welding out of the box), no pulse, output a little low for thicker aluminum, etc ...
It is pretty good at what it does, but miller took all the decisions for you - which you may or may not like.

Also, miller is coming with the Diversion 180. It's already in the 2010 catalog. Pretty much same machine (same duty cycle at same outputs if I remember properly) but the ability to go a little higher on amps (always good for alum) and a dual voltage plug.

I'd look also look at the thermal arc 185 (or 200), haven't tried but read a lot of good reviews.

If you go with a transformer based machine, make sure you have the service for it.

Whatever you buy, enjoy your TIG welding. It's *loads* of fun

 

[wendell]

rsanter,
If you post a little more about what you want to do w/ your TIG, you'll get better responses. Couple things;
-what materials do you want to weld? AL?
-what max thickness?
-what's the input amperage avialable to you?
-do you have a size restriction?

When I answered these questions for my self I ended up with a Miller Syncrowave 300 w/ post flow and pulse. I put the whole rig together, including Bernard chiller and new 20 series torch for less than a $1000. Put another one together for a friend for around $1200. That's WAY more machine than the Lincoln you referenced. So, let us know what you want to do.

 

[Zrexxer]

In regard to the machines you referenced, the EconoTig as mentioned is generally not worth the money, as it has some serious limitations, such as being a Sine wave machine instead of Squarewave, and not having some other important features that most people find useful.

That being said, the Lincoln 175, even though a Squarewave machine, was regarded as something of a dog in Lincoln's lineup, and was grossly inferior to the Lincoln Precision Tig 185 that replaced it.

The Diversions or Syncrowaves are good choices in transformer machines, and as mentioned Thermal Arc makes some nice inverters for a whole lot less cash than a Dynasty.

 

[sporkedtospec]

Pretty sure the econotig is 150amps, not much if you are going to be doing aluminum. It's a barebones machine, precursor to the Diversion. A water cooled torch setup will be essential for long intervals on aluminum.

I would recommend something used with a little more than what you think you are going to be doing on a routine basis...something with a little headroom. A tig machine is expensive anyway you look at it and should be a long term investment. Miller and Lincoln tig machines retain their value very well. If you do your homework and buy right, you should be able to sell it (if you had to) and make most if not all of your money back.
I made money when I sold my Maxstar 150sth last summer. I purchased it at a very reasonable price used with 3/4 of the factory warranty remaining. I made sure that the seller was legit, verified the serial numbers, and kept very good care of it.
I would pay more for a machine that was well inside the factory warranty period. In my eyes and experience, a reasonable asking price drops significantly if it has fallen outside the warranty period.

I just picked up an Airco Heliwelder V off of CL. I spent a two hour lunch making sure that everything was working correctly, inspected everything with the covers off, and ran the serial/model numbers when I got back home. I liked the fact that the seller wasn't rushing me or acting as if he was covering something up. Worked a good final price, one that I was comfortable knowing I could sell and get my money back if necessary
Even though it's nearly 30 years old, huge, heavy, and needs a cleaning something awful...the HF start and arc is much crisper than my previous Maxstar and should last forever with off the shelf components.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

I use to use a buzz box (standard arc welder) and a adapter torch n bottle for a scratch start setup. It was cheap, and was how I got started in TIG. I welded a ton of steel with that setup, using some copper plates as scratch start pads. If you want to buy a machine get a good one, Dynasty 200DX is what I have and it's the minimum of my requirements.

vid of scratch start

 

[donhd04]

I talked to numerous guys last year that had built custom cars at the Hot rod Reunion in B.G. KY and almost all of them said they loved the new Miller Diversion 165. It was simplified and very effecient, cost effective, and all around great welder. Most even said they don't even use their older syncrowave Miller any more and some even offered to sell me their old syncro tig welder. None had any bad things to say about the Miller 165.

I know its my first choice for a welder. I don't even own a mig. whats the use. the tig does everything i need and a whole hell of alot cleaner welds.

 

[veilside180sx]

I have a TA185 and have been happy with it.

The Diversion 165 would be my other choice, despite having less control over settings...for someone starting out...less to screw up.

 

[Skyline]

For those that are suggesting a old transformer machine, Metric is right on saying you need to make sure you have the service for it. A Syncrowave 300 transformer machine needs 90 amps input to run at full power. So that means the machine must be hard-wired in place...no using it on a plug in extension chord. An inverter machine with the same output will take half that power, and will get you to just about 1/2" think steel welds off a 30a dryer outlet.

 

[rsanter]

well, I picked up the Diversion from Miller
originally I was looking at a more delux machine but figured that should be all I need for a long while.
the Miller rep showed me the uses for the different settings on the other machines and I am not convinced I needed them

bob

 

[chad s]

well, I picked up the Diversion from Miller
originally I was looking at a more delux machine but figured that should be all I need for a long while.
the Miller rep showed me the uses for the different settings on the other machines and I am not convinced I needed them

bob

I have the Diversion 165. I love it. I like the little foot pedal too. It took a little getting used to after using a friends big lincoln with a big pedal, but I love the little pedal now.

 

[Dying Fetus]

Get an HTP 201 or a Thermal Arc 185. You will not regret your purchase.

I have used the Lincoln Squarewave 175, Precision 185, Miller Syncrowave 350 and the Econotig. I have also owned a Miller Dynasty 200DX, Thermal Arc 185 and currently own an HTP 201.

I wasn't happy with the quality and performance of Lincoln welders at all. Miller welders were pretty good, but they're not a good value at all. The best TIG welder I have used is either the Thermal Arc 185 or the HTP 201; I honestly can't decide which is better. The HTP has a few more options that are more appealing (more cooling fans, metal case, etc...), but I can't really decide which one welded better; they were both great!

I currently own 2 HTP welders, the 201 TIG and the 200 MIG. They're the best welders I have ever used. I wouldn't trade my current setup for anything.

 

[paranoid56]

I also have the diversion and love it. do yourself a favor and get the foot pedal. makes using it so much better.

 

[rsanter]

I also have the diversion and love it. do yourself a favor and get the foot pedal. makes using it so much better.

yup
got the foot pedal first day
I prefer the footpedal, but this way I have both options should I need to weld in an odd position as well

next step, designing a cool welding cart

bob

 

[tdkkart]

Get the BIG (300cf??) Argon tank, TIG uses alot of it simply becuase it's so slow, and since your a beginner you'll use even more till you get your speed up a bit.

I've got a Miller SD180, love it.