Hi been working on getting a hi freq box set up for some Aluminum welding. I purchased the CK water cooled torch and it is nice. I have put a water cooled set up to cool the torch but having a problem with flow thru the torch. Have the 5 gallon pail for reservoir and a pump that flows well but appears the pressure is not there. I built a valve that can control flow back to the tank and send more flow to the torch. Got all the fittings yesterday and tested out system. I am only getting 6 ounces of water after a minute catching it. Looks like my pump cannot build up enough pressure to push water thru torch. I see where guys use aquarium pumps to supply water and assumed my pump would at least do that. When I just shut off supply to the torch water the pump has a great flow unrestricted back to the tank. When I completely close bypass valve I get about 6 ounces of water thru torch. Going to put a pressure gauge dead headed on outlet side today to actually see what pressure I am building. Any ideas of a better pump to use. If this does not work will end up purchasing a purpose built one. Thought i would try my hand at building one. Thanks for any help.
Tig torch cooling system
- Thread starter Orca
- Start date
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You sure that there isnt an obstruction at the torch? Like a pinched tube or a cap over a fitting?
rlitman
Well-known member
Aquarium pump? Yeah, that's not going to fly. The back-pressure from such long and skinny lines will give you the results you just saw. What's happening is that as the flow increases, the back-pressure goes up dramatically, and once it reaches the "pump curve" the flow is at it's peak. Aquarium pumps are designed for very low head pressures. Figure on 50 PSI for good coolant flow. Your aquarium pump is unlikely to get you past 1 PSI.
I used a soda carbonator pump (and actually re-used the stainless tank as my coolant reservoir) for my DIY TIG cooler before I got my hands on a Miller Radiator-1. Carbonator pumps have a spring controlled pressure bypass regulator and can easily blow up your system, but turned down just a bit should give you adequate flow.
I used a soda carbonator pump (and actually re-used the stainless tank as my coolant reservoir) for my DIY TIG cooler before I got my hands on a Miller Radiator-1. Carbonator pumps have a spring controlled pressure bypass regulator and can easily blow up your system, but turned down just a bit should give you adequate flow.
I used a carbonator pump when I built mine about twenty-five years ago and it's still working fine.
A friend uses a water tap for a swamp box cooler and turns the water on when he is ready to weld. On the output side a hose goes outside and waters his yard!
A friend uses a water tap for a swamp box cooler and turns the water on when he is ready to weld. On the output side a hose goes outside and waters his yard!
Hi Thanks for the replies. I checked my pressure. It is 4 PSI dead headed going out to the torch. Open up bypass and it drops to about 1 PSI. It is a VWR 110 volt scientific pump used in laboratory situations. Impeller type pump all plastic pump. Inlet and outlet are 3/4 inch. Has a great flow open with no load. Assume as torch is new there should be no obstructions but will check it out to be sure. Torch is coiled up for test with no kinks. Wrapped hoses in the spiral plastic wrap with no kinks. for protection and 25 feet long. Can someone point me to a known good pump within reason. If a good pump is upwards of $100.00 I might just as well buy a unit. More tests and will post a photo of setup. Thanks. I was able to purchase 4035 Aluminum rod from my welding supply house as it was in stock. I ordered 1100 series Aluminum rod too. Turns out 4035 will be good for straight run welding but brittle for shaping areas. Was told 1100 series will yield much better for repairs to curved areas as the tail of the sprint car. Learn every day. Thanks appreciate it.
CDPLUCKER
Active member
you can always hook up the torch to a water spigot and run the waste water out the garage door , a total loss cooling system have seen it several times. cheap
Hi, Just tested system again. Out from pump 3/4 inch reduced to to torch connection about 1/4 inch thru torch uncoiled on floor straight out and back thru torch fitting into reservoir. Maintains 4 PSI, flow rate still 8 ounces /min. Can I put air pressure thru new torch? How much pressure to not rupture it? This would verify no obstructions. From what I read her and my tests the pump is just not put out enough pressure. Great flow. It is made by Gorman-Rupp model 118 143 74. Assume build date is 1974 which sounds about right as I have had it for many years.
rlitman
Well-known member
It will be. Used soda fountain carbonators tend to go for around that. A replacement Procon carbonator pump goes for around $140 but you'll still need the motor, which is even more expensive.
That was mentioned above. It'll work, so long as your shop doesn't freeze.
O.K. Just connected torch to city water supply. I get 36 ounces of water output per minute so that would be a good flow for the torch. There is no restrictions or kinks with these results. Will get a pressure gauge to see just what pressure city is delivering to me. Looks like pump cannot deliver the pressure I need to get the flow needed for the torch.
Hi Thanks for the replies. And yes expect good pumps to cost. I can use city water and dump outside garage as an option. Now the question is what brand of cooler is a good choice. See a few at about $250.00 and understand you get what you pay for!! I had a nice Branson Stainless cooler(spelling?) for years but had to sell all the set up because of marital issues. Would love to buy a good used unit but assume not going to happen. So delima is buy a cheap knock off unit, build a good unit or just use water from city. With weather getting better I will plan on a water waste system to see how my cobbled setup works. t/hanks for the replies. Appreciate it.
Hi, just dug up a gauge. City water delivering 60PSI dead headed. As far as the internet cheap builds this amazes me a $12.00 aquarium pump can flow and protect a torch for Aluminum but !! Will look at plans to build a nice unit as opposed to a knock off or just get a quality unit. The pump is the key to this project. Will post as soon as I hook unit up to test it. Great forum and folks. Thanks
rlitman
Well-known member
An aquarium pump will not build up the pressure, since it's a centrifugal pump with lots of room around the impeller, optimized for flow. But lots of other options exist. Last year, I bought a 12V diaphragm pump and built a fungicide sprayer for my gardening projects (after my Milwaukee backpack failed), That pump ran me $15, and something like that should suit your application well.
These 12V diaphram pumps are made for RV freshwater tank use, and build from perhaps 20 PSI to over 150 PSI. They're similar to 12V fuel pumps (if you're familiar with them), except will not corrode in water. This one should work for you:
Of course, these are kind of disposable compared to a carbonator pump, and you'll need a 12V supply that can put out I'd say about 5A.
This one might be a bit high on the pressure, but they tend to overrate these (since they're Chinese ****), but can be had for $15:
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Watercoolers aren’t that expensive. The amount of time and energy you’ll spend trying to cobble one is far greater than just picking up a used one off eBay or something.
Hi Yes I see the RV 12 volt pumps could work and agree after putting it all together it is a **** shoot. Do not want to destroy a nice new torch. I have a used 12 volt RV pump coming from a friend. Have a step down power supply to run it. I would prefer to buy a purpose built used better quality unit but cannot find on line anywhere. I am willing to pay for something of better quality but am shying away from the $250.00 units. Rather put that money into a good unit. All the reviews say run from them. Nobody is willing to part with them. Do not blame them. If anybody has a good unit please let me know. I have to just get water to the torch and see if the Hi Freq. set up will work for me. If it works out O.K. I will purchase a proper water cooler unit. If this cobble does not work I will just start searching for a proper Tig unit for Aluminum. I have been spoiled because as I had a Miller 300 Syncrowave unit from the 1970's until about 2000. A good unit spoils you. My scratch Daytona tig is O.K. Rebuilt several cars bodies and repair jobs over the years with it but again not a top shelf unit. Do not know much about the new inverter rigs.
Primeweld has one that has a 3 year warranty for $399. I did not try to make my own once I thought about our city water around here is so hard my torch would be limescaled in a week with a once through. Like dr_clyde mentioned earlier you can get a ebay one for around $225-240 if you check what is available and make an offer. Most seem to all be made in the same china factory.
https://primeweld.com/products/maxcool3000-tig-torch-water-cooler
https://primeweld.com/products/maxcool3000-tig-torch-water-cooler
rlitman
Well-known member
I'm a bit skeptical of eBay, since the shipping on something so large will likely kill the budget. I've seen a small handful of water coolers on CL locally, but in the years I've been watching for one, I bought the only one I've seen at a reasonable price.
For comparison, my DIY water cooler was made from a soda carbonator I got on CL for $50. The "radiator" was made from a 25' coil of 1/4" copper ice-maker line wound into a cone that sat over a peanut butter jar and fan I got from scrap. It worked ok, but I wanted something with a positive flow indicator because I had some times where mine air-locked, and I bought the Miller before I had time to install a visual flow meter.
True. CK makes thermal fuses for this purpose. I'm not sure if there's much value there though.
jar944
Well-known member
Back when ebay was decent 10+ years ago, you could find them for relatively low prices. This and the #20 torch was as far as I got.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Attend a local auction of a closing shop or a machinery dealer. I’ve picked up a couple of industrial coolers over the years for less than $100.
Last one I got was at an estate auction of a machine dealer, got a Bernard all stainless cooler for $50.
Last one I got was at an estate auction of a machine dealer, got a Bernard all stainless cooler for $50.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
TIG torches and all of the lines are very restrictive, and need relatively high pressure to flow enough water. Most ready-built TIG coolers are set to maintain about 50 PSI. I believe most torches are also rated for about 50 PSI.
rlitman
Well-known member
I wish! But being "local" means everything.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Just gotta keep looking. They weld in every state. One will eventually pop up.
If you want to be cheap, you gotta be patient or not value your time.
They sell brand new ones every day at every LWS.
Thanks. Yes I am afraid too of just connecting city water also and **** up small torch lines. There are a couple of Carbonated pumps and motors on Ebay, Seller will not answer as to working condition or of motor voltage. See 2 other complete coolers there too but local pick up only. I am willing to spend money on a good brand and rebulding it also. Looks like about $300.00 buys one but again they do not ship so that is out. I will have to be patient for now. Have searched several welding sites and nothing.
Hi, well patience paid off. After several inquiries and no answers I started to search for major components to build one. I just found and bought a Procon pump and motor combination (carbonator). Now I will be able to deliver correct pressure and flow to the torch. I found a new oil cooler for dropping temperature of fluid down. Purchased a a container as a reservoir to hold fluid and bought a twin fan assembly to help cool the fluid. So now going to mock all this up and see what I get. Want to splice in an audible alarm in case I loose pressure or flow. Any suggestions as to what to buy/build? Thanks again to forum and great support.
rlitman
Well-known member
I'd just put one of these on the return:
Yes Found it. Just ordered one. Had one on the Miller Syncro wave at the lab many years ago. We were tird to city water back then and I had the paddle wheel in sight at the head end of the bench to keep an eye on flow. One day not paying attention well the plumbers shut off the water supply to it to change a Cuno filter in the hallway behind the weld lab and I had the cables sitting on my lap. Yup those hoses got hot real quick and melted the plastic hose on my jeans. That is when I became aware of no flow. After that I purchased a wrap for the cables to protect me. I also purchased a nice in line water filter but it wants me to put it on the return side saying on the pressure side it might restrict the flow. Any thoughts. Assumed I was protecting the line into the torch. Thanks.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Make sure you drop the pressure on the procon pump down. It should have an adjustable pressure regulator built into it.
Will do. I am laying out the parts now and will test the pump to see how well it works. I see 50 PSI is the proper pressure for the CK torch with the 25 foot super flex hose to push 1.5 gallons per minute as needed. Have to say my other torch setup had the plastic stiffer hoses so will have to be super careful to not pinch or cut these hoses. While on the subject should I make a provision to have a bypass hose from the output of the pump back to the holding tank? Never took my Bernard pump system apart so do not know if this is standard and should incorporated one. Appreciate all the help.
rlitman
Well-known member
No, the regulator doesn't need a bypass. Carbonator regulators internally bypass (just like those on a pressure washer or gasoline engine compressor).
Hi ,getting back on this project soon. Had some distractions. Was able to locate the 1100 series Aluminum sheet I need for my current project. Local metal shop quoted $365.00 for a 2'x4' piece of .063 H-14. I was able to buy it on line for $116.00 including shipping to my door. Wow what a difference.