Tig weld question before purchase.

[1oldtimer]

Tig welder question before purchase.

I'm going to get a Tig and had a few questions and needed some input. I don't want to start a **** storm and I know there's been billions of posts about what brand to buy. A lot of reviews I've looked at have been a few years old (2017 and older) and I'm looking for some current input on a machine that people have been using for a few years.

I'm looking for something that's going to last well past the warranty period, a solid machine for a home welder (who's just starting out). I've been reading about water cooled vs non cooled and inverter vs non inverter. I've come to the conclusion that I would like a 200-250 amp machine and if it's upgradeable to water cooled if need be in the future that would be a bonus.

Miller:
I've read some negative reviews on the Synchowave 210 about breaking down quickly (I've read the Diversion had problems) and was wondering if anyone has a newer one or input on one (2017+).

Everlast:
I've watched a few reviews on the 250dx, some like the accessories, some say to get new quality ones.

Primeweld 225:

APH Aplha Tig 201XD:

HTP 221:


Help?!?!?!

 

[HMCFab9]

My boss has an everlast TIG & I like it

 

[txvwnut]

Alphatig 200 user here and for the five years I’ve been using it, it’s been flawless. With Alpha you get a lot of welder for a little cash.

 

[alcorelli]

Re: Tig welder question before purchase.

Had my Syncrowave for years and it runs fine. I use it at least every two weeks.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[matt_i]

I have a Sync 250dx - water cooled, around a 2003 variant. I fully expect it to outlast me.

If you buy a blue or a red, there's a giant parts, service & forum-support network, that's not going away anytime soon.

 

[zmotorsports]

I have a friend who bought an Everlast and I've helped him get started with TIG and it's a decent machine, especially for a hobbyist.

Personally, I prefer a more robust and commercial machine in my home shop so I can push it without worry.

The Miller line is great from their inverter Dynasty machines to the big transformer Synchrowave machines. The Synchrowaves are built like tanks and will more than likely out live most users. Our Synchrowave 250 at work gets abused by my co-workers and it just keeps on taking the abuse. My Dynasty 300 at home just keeps performing day in and day out.

When it comes to torches if you don't need the higher amperage or the small package of a water cooled TIG torch then a 17 or 26 will work fine but they are physically larger and get warm when pushing higher amperage for any length of time.

I prefer the water cooled 20 series with gas lense for coverage on all of my machines due to the comfort and small size for maneuverability.

I am not as familiar with the Lincoln line of TIG welders so maybe others who are can chime in on their characteristics.

 

[dr_clyde]

I am a big fan of the Syncrowave 250 for a tig on a budget. They are the “industrial standard” for 250 class machines.

You can routinely pick up an older one for less than a grand and have a welder that will last decades if you do some routine maintenance like blowing out dust and cleaning coolant radiators occasionally.

 

[joe_padavano]

Re: Tig welder question before purchase.

I know there's been billions of posts about what brand to buy.

And now, a billion and one...

 

[Robert Haas]

Simple answers to complex questions.

If you plan on welding Aluminum often you need a machine that can live and work above 200 amps and a water cooled torch.

If you are going to do sheet metal and small delicate work any machine can get you there however the newer systems like the Dynasty line have features that help and a small flex head air cooled torch is all you want.

Problem is that most any person that starts out thinking they don't need a big machine under buy and end up pushing their equipment to the edge of its envelope.

I never thought in a million years I would want 350 amps. Then last year at SEMA I demoed the Newest Dynasty and it is all I can think about.

 

[IndyGarage]

Re: Tig welder question before purchase.

Miller:
I've read some negative reviews on the Synchowave 210 about breaking down quickly (I know the Diversion *****) and was wondering if anyone has a newer one or input on one (2017+).

Who told you the Diversion *****? Probably someone who hasn't owned one. I've had one for quite awhile and it works great. Almost identical to the Dynasty 200 that I used in my welding class. The Dynasty had a whole lot more adjustments is the major difference..

 

[StRacerDuke]

I have the HTP 221 and love it. Rock solid, easy to use, great quality accessories.

 

[dr_clyde]

Re: Tig welder question before purchase.

Who told you the Diversion *****? Probably someone who hasn't owned one. I've had one for quite awhile and it works great. Almost identical to the Dynasty 200 that I used in my welding class. The Dynasty had a whole lot more adjustments is the major difference..

Compared to other machines in its class, the Diversion DOES lack some import features. Namely, interchangeable leads. It also has only 180 amps and no ac waveform adjustments. A Lincoln SW tig 200 has all of the missing features, 20 more amps and costs less money. It doesn’t ****, but it certainly isn’t a good choice for the money.

To say the diversion welds as good as a dynasty just shows your lack of experience with both machines. There is a reason the Dynasty is so much more money.

The diversion is just that. A diversion from a pro grade machine.

 

[IndyGarage]

Re: Tig welder question before purchase.

Compared to other machines in its class, the Diversion DOES lack some import features. Namely, interchangeable leads. It also has only 180 amps and no ac waveform adjustments. A Lincoln SW tig 200 has all of the missing features, 20 more amps and costs less money. It doesn’t ****, but it certainly isn’t a good choice for the money.

To say the diversion welds as good as a dynasty just shows your lack of experience with both machines. There is a reason the Dynasty is so much more money.

The diversion is just that. A diversion from a pro grade machine.

Sorry for your incorrect opinion. My understanding is the diversion is based on the original dynasty platform. I don't have a lack of experience with both machines, but apparently you do. I told you I took a class using a Dynasty 200 and then went home and used my Diversion - literally one hour apart several times. They weld pretty much the same, just the Diversion doesn't have all the adjustments on it.

That was several years ago, and they have upgraded the Dynasty and I don't even know if they sell the Diversion anymore, but your opinion that the Diversion isn't capable is simply untrue.

 

[Av8r_Sed]

I have the HTP 221 and love it. Rock solid, easy to use, great quality accessories.

I second StRacerDuke’s opinion on the HTP 221. I’ve had mine for several years and it hasn’t let me down. I’ve got the 220 only model with water cooler. It was great ordering from the company because I could get exactly the torch and accessories I wanted. I haven’t used any of the others so can’t provide a comparison.

 

[Robert Haas]

The new Dynasty does have more friendly settings in regards to how to set the machine up for a specific job. It seems to be the direction Red and Blue (more blue then red) in terms of auto sets and pre-sets that allow the machine to be turned on and with a couple inputs from the user, be able to produce a fairly consistent puddle with less theoretical knowledge by said user.

I am self taught and trial and error and just outright frustration based research allowed me to become a decent welder but theoretical knowledge and old school experience with oxy/acetylene did help my personal journey. Today Miller has been trying to allow a novice to start operating and succeeding in execution of the what was once the domain of the master class welders of days bygone.

 

[dr_clyde]

Re: Tig welder question before purchase.

Sorry for your incorrect opinion. My understanding is the diversion is based on the original dynasty platform. I don't have a lack of experience with both machines, but apparently you do. I told you I took a class using a Dynasty 200 and then went home and used my Diversion - literally one hour apart several times. They weld pretty much the same, just the Diversion doesn't have all the adjustments on it.

That was several years ago, and they have upgraded the Dynasty and I don't even know if they sell the Diversion anymore, but your opinion that the Diversion isn't capable is simply untrue.

I have plenty of experience on both machines. I own a Dynasty, and have used a Diversion many times.

While the Diversion may be based on the Dynasty, it lacks LOTS of features that are absolutely noticeable in use.

For a simple DC or AC arc you probably wouldn't notice if you don't have experience.

You can't adjust frequency, waveform shape, wave balance, it doesn't have a pulser, lift arc, is under powered and it is more expensive than a comparable class Lincoln. Once you actually know how to use them, adjust them and take advantage of them being able to tune your waveform or arc can make a HUGE difference.

Even if it had ALL of those features, the Diversion does not have the ability to remove and interchange leads, making it a huge pain in the *** to swap cables if you need, and makes it almost impossible to water cool.

It also is current limited to 180 amps, which is next to useless on AC unless you're doing sheet metal. Even a Dynasty is a little undersized on that at 200 amps, but you can just squeak out a bit more if you know how to adjust settings which the diversion can't do.

They may both be inverters, but a Diversion is NOT a Dynasty. It isn't a bad machine, but it is a VERY basic hobby welder that is hugely limited.

I stand by my statement. The Diversion is NOT a good buy. It costs $2300 for an under performing machine. A Lincoln SW TIG 200 is $1800 and it WILL do all the things that the Diversion won't.

 

[dnschmidt]

Cheap and capable: AHP or Primeweld. For any home use these will do fine up to 1/4" aluminum. My feeling about this is that if you need thicker aluminum use pulsed MIG.

Pro use for a good price: HTP Invertig 221. Does it all and lasts forever. Those recommending transformer machines need to realize the 10X more electricity these machines require over an inverter and also the 80 Amp service the 300-350 transformer machines require.

 

[dnschmidt]

TIG is a cult. Probably with 6061 on YouTube playing Jimmy Jones as it's leader. Is it good for some stuff - absolutely. Is it in any way imaginable as useful as MIG? No way in hell for the average dude.

 

[slackdaddy1]

I picked up a Good used Lincoln Precision TIG 225 for $700 a year or so ago.
It is a heavy transformer TIG,, last forever.

 

[Robert Haas]

TIG is a cult. Probably with 6061 on YouTube playing Jimmy Jones as it's leader. Is it good for some stuff - absolutely. Is it in any way imaginable as useful as MIG? No way in hell for the average dude.

Not really anyway to take these comments as anything but WTF.

My TIG see's 10 times the use then my two MIG machines see combined.

Granted I do more fab work then most hobby guys and a lot of other fab shops so I don't really have much opinion about any person that only uses a tool one day in 40 like others here.

As far as the usefulness of TIG welding, with the correct machine the control and versatility it brings to the welding table will turn an average fabricator up by several levels once they master the craft.

Chip Foose referred to MIG welding as the glue gun of the fabricators.

 

[zmotorsports]

TIG is a cult. Probably with 6061 on YouTube playing Jimmy Jones as it's leader. Is it good for some stuff - absolutely. Is it in any way imaginable as useful as MIG? No way in hell for the average dude.

I don't think cult is the word I'd use to describe it. Some may use TIG in places where a MIG may make more sense but for me I try to use the right tool (or machine) for the right job for time, efficiency and overall outcome.

If building a trailer then MIG (SGAW) makes more sense but if welding a light weight ATV or snowmobile chassis together or repairing a motorcycle case then TIG (GTAW) is the only way to go. Useful is subjective, depends on the task at hand.

There really is no one size or machine fits all. Then in each process there are still dozens of choices.

 

[zkling]

I am a big fan of the Syncrowave 250 for a tig on a budget. They are the “industrial standard” for 250 class machines.

You can routinely pick up an older one for less than a grand and have a welder that will last decades if you do some routine maintenance like blowing out dust and cleaning coolant radiators occasionally.

But of your list for space, portability and ease of obtaining. APH Aplha Tig 201XD

 

[zkling]

Re: Tig welder question before purchase.

Sorry for your incorrect opinion. My understanding is the diversion is based on the original dynasty platform. I don't have a lack of experience with both machines, but apparently you do. I told you I took a class using a Dynasty 200 and then went home and used my Diversion - literally one hour apart several times. They weld pretty much the same, just the Diversion doesn't have all the adjustments on it.

That was several years ago, and they have upgraded the Dynasty and I don't even know if they sell the Diversion anymore, but your opinion that the Diversion isn't capable is simply untrue.

Performance for dollar it is a poor value....especially now. It came out back when the china tigs were not what they are today. Back then it was a cheaper alternative to the then syncrowave 180 then 200, now the goofy 210.

Miller also had an econotig which was the predecessor in a way to the diversion, a budget ac/dc tig machine from a big name, all of which had them and still do. However the china tig units REALLY put a squeeze on the market giving people the rightful opinion that "They (diversions) ****" based on performance for dollar. heck when they came out they had a direct connected torch and a ethernet like foot pedal, lordy.

"Took a class using a dynasty"....

 

[danscobra6]

I'm waiting for these Aplha Tig 201XD to come in, May sometime. I've had all previous versions with zero failures.
Currently have a Primeweld 225 and that also is an excellent choice.
Have owned Everlast 255ext and the 205 pro. Both flawless.
Long ago Miller dialarc all loaded up. My most expensive mistake. Sold it under warranty
to the repair shop that had it more then I did.
Played a lot with Tosense, the cheap 3 in one 200 amp tig plasma. Took 3 brand new ones apart and repaired the wiring flaws after blowing the first one up. They have one of the smoothest and crisp arcs of any of the above mentioned. DC only welder. Cut 1/4 steel like butter. Smooth cuts on aluminum also.
The only Lincoln was the 225 arc welder purchased in high school for $99.00 on sale.
Another one I couldn't kill.
Do a lot with Htp, cooler and other accessories but never pulled the plug on a welder.

After using the above mentioned, AHP gets my vote. I strongly prefer knobs you can do a quick glance at rather then scroll through a menu.

 

[dnschmidt]

Chip Foose referred to MIG welding as the glue gun of the fabricators. iS THIS A BAD THING?? I've got both TIG (AHP) and MIG (HTP Propulse 200) and for making stuff (gates, workbenches, stuff from rectangular and square tubing) I use the Propulse 20X what I use the AHP for. With the pulse function you can lay down beads 10X as fast as TIG with 1/2 the heat distortion of TIG and with double pulse the welds look a lot like TIG. The Propulse 200 is also fantastic with aluminum and is at least 5X as fast as TIG. On the ICAR aluminum autobody test it's all pulsed MIG and no TIG whatsoever. If you're making titanium bicycles then TIG's the nuts. I can do both with equal facility but with the advent of pulsed MIG I find less and less use for TIG.

 

[dr_clyde]

I don’t understand why people think you can only have one or the other? Yeah mig is fast and cheap, but there will always be uses for a good tig machine.

Get both? I know I use both pretty much every day in my shop. Today I had two employees on mig machines all day pulse spraying steel weldments, and I was tig welding aluminum fuel cells all day. Other days we have 3 tig machines rocking all day on sanitary stainless tubing or all 3 migs buzzing production weldments.

It’s the same in a home shop. Just smaller and less frequent.

MIG ans TIG compliment each other super well. Where one is weak the other excels. People who insist on only one just like to live in their bubble and not branch out.

 

[1oldtimer]

Thanks all for the input, keep it coming. I'm still doing research. To add more info, it's for work in my home cramped garage, with a 20-25A circuit, I'm going to weld aluminum with it and I do have a Miller mig 185 (220v). So an older machine is out (for now), I need a inverter machine. I'm going to talk to a welding supply place also, but I want to narrow it down more first. I like the good accessories of the Primeweld 225 and the rock solidness of the HTP Invertig 221. I still have to look at accessories, service centers and such.

 

[Robert Haas]

25 AMPs ain't enough, sorry

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I'll throw out an oddball......I really like my Sanrex (branded Thermal Arc in my case). I've used an AHP Alphatig 200 and it was a ************* compared to my machine. Not only was the torch ****, the pedal was comical, and it wouldn't start an arc half the time unless I scratch started it. I've used a Lincoln inverter and it was far nicer, but still not as nice as my machine. I haven't weld aluminum in 15 years, but my 200amp machine does everything I've needed.

I'm not brand loyal, but I'd look towards something that comes setup with nice leads, regulator, flow meter, etc.

 

[dnschmidt]

The current model of the AHP has replaced the dog foot petal (which really was worthless) with a SSC clone which works fine. The new swivel torch is very nice and on a par with CK Worldwide.

 

[1oldtimer]

25 AMPs ain't enough, sorry

Sorry, it's a 40A line......20a was the washer plug .

 

[Stuntmonkey]

Bumping this thread as I'm on the search for a TIG that I can grow into. Was looking at a diversion 180, and for the money it seems pretty silly. Dynasty or Syncrowave might be a little big for my garage right now.

AHP seems to be winning thus far, budget is sub $2000 CAD. Any experience with everlast?

 

[Steve_P]

We do a lot of welding of thin stainless where I work; it's done via TIG or EBW; MIG is not permitted.

 

[dnschmidt]

The HTP is the best of the three by far. But, it's three times the price and it sure isn't three times as good as the Primeweld or the Ahp. I have the Ahp and it works for me. If I had to do it over again I might go with the Primeweld due to the superior accessories such as the CK Worldwide torch and the better foot petal.

MIG vs TIG is an argument that will go on forever. If your doing car restoration it's MIG by a mile. If you're doing some sort of Ron Covell metalshapping then it's TIG all the way. If you can get to the back of the weld then TIG is superior since you can planish the welds, if you've only got access to one side of the work then MIG is superior. I know of ZERO bodyshops that have a TIG. Every body shop in the country has MIG. Aluminum tilts the scale toward TIG but with new pulsed MIG machines like the HTP Propulse 220 you can now do things with MIG in aluminum that previously could only be done by TIG.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I have a Miller 250x MIG with a 200 spoolgun. Welding 100 thou aluminum was tricky, less than that was down right difficult. I have a Hugong Wave 200 ac/dc TIG, think ESAB 186i (one is clone of the other, I don't know which) Welding 1/4" Al., my pedal was on the floor. The other place TIG is good is on small parts.

Welding steel, I use stick, it doesn't need gas.