TIG welding help needed!

[TimeWarpF100]

Even though I have had my TIG for 15yrs now and never had a issue with my typical TIG work but now I need to ask the pro's for help.

(see header build in my project section)

Building a custom set of headers for a 427 Ford in a F100

I bought a mandrel pipe mix and match box from Summit Racing that came from Schoenfeld.

The first thing I noticed was how thin the pipe was compared to what I am used to. I simply moved on and built the headers tacking as I went with the MIG with plans to final weld with the TIG.

I was really looking forward to doing the TIG work and had a picture in my head of final outcome.

This was not to be as soon as I put the torch to the pipe it seems to splatter, this only happens with the pipe from Schoenfeld. No issue with other mild steel pipe or sheet metal.

Settings so ya do not have to ask

TIG Machine is a Lincoln syncrowave 275

-DC using -2% Thorated tungsten

Started off with 3/32 tungsten but went to .040 as just did not want to dial down~burn thru. It would be much easier welding a aluminum pop can together.

Straight Argon being used.

Getting to be a old fart and am missing something here . . .

Can someone point me in the right direction?

I can deal with the thin pipe but its what happens when I try to weld.
No doubt I could do better with oxy torch.

This is exact reason I bought the tig . . .

I will have to look at filler rod being used. Its been so long since I have purchased any

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Eyes not so good but looks like rod is 1/16 1.6mm ER70S-2

I am sure its Lincoln filler rod

I also left message at Schoenfeld Headers to see what they will say.

Probably a simple over-look on my part but brain not working well enough to figure it out.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Could it be you need to put an inert gas inside the pipe you're welding?

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Could it be you need to put an inert gas inside the pipe you're welding?

Could be, I thought it was typical exhaust pipe used. Probably have to find out what it is first maybe?

I will see if Schoenfeld calls me back

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Could it be you need to put an inert gas inside the pipe you're welding?

Wow, I have been welding pipes up for 15yrs using a TIG without an issue.

Schoenfeld called me back saying same thing I need to purge using another bottle of Argon. Never heard of such a thing welding mild steel.

Thought that was used only in stainless . .

Just do not have the funds to purchase another bottle, regulator etc.

Its taken me a month and a half to get this far.

Schoenfeld says they always MIG and never TIG the pipes.

the wall thickness is only .049 Never again will I use these mandrel bends . .

 

[shawnspeed]

No galvanizing in the tube is there??? is there any sign of a yellowish /white residue around the tacks??I have noticed some bends I have been getting are gavanized...they are then regarded as "exhaust " pipe , and not header building material....otherwise it sounds like everything is set up, as long as the tung is not contaminated, sounds like the base metal is ****...Just my 2 c Shawn

 

[tdkkart]

Contamination of some sort. Either wipe down with laquer thinner, alcohol, etc(anything but brakeclean), or simply heat each joint with a torch to burn off the crud before welding it.

 

[E.rodz]

sounds to me like you have aluminized pipe which you can never get a great looking weld. thin steel is also picky about being clean inside and out. purging with any inert gas even if it from you wire feed and it is c02 that will help as well. also make sure your leads did not get switched and it is running in dc reverse polarity .1/16 filler should work well for that.if your filler rod is old run a scotch brite pad over it and get the contamination off of the filler. Ps. picts would be very helpful too. hope this helps and good luck.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

No galvanizing in the tube is there??? is there any sign of a yellowish /white residue around the tacks??I have noticed some bends I have been getting are gavanized...they are then regarded as "exhaust " pipe , and not header building material....otherwise it sounds like everything is set up, as long as the tung is not contaminated, sounds like the base metal is ****...Just my 2 c Shawn

Contamination of some sort. Either wipe down with laquer thinner, alcohol, etc(anything but brakeclean), or simply heat each joint with a torch to burn off the crud before welding it.

sounds to me like you have aluminized pipe which you can never get a great looking weld. thin steel is also picky about being clean inside and out. purging with any inert gas even if it from you wire feed and it is c02 that will help as well. also make sure your leads did not get switched and it is running in dc reverse polarity .1/16 filler should work well for that.if your filler rod is old run a scotch brite pad over it and get the contamination off of the filler. Ps. picts would be very helpful too. hope this helps and good luck.

Update: Made a trip to welding supply place . .

Mild steel tubing no coatings or aluminized.

Because of what they put on pipe to keep from rusting I always wipe them down with lacquer thinner as soon as I take them out of box.

I left message for local Lincoln rep for area who lives pretty close by. He called back I was driving so could not answer some of his questions.

In the mean time while at the local welding supply place thinking I had to buy another bottle of argon, regulator etc the Welding teacher happened to overhear my conversation and gave me a few pointers.

Since back in 1999 I just went out and bought a welder with no basic instruction on how to use it its all been trial and error. (even though I was supposed to be taught how to use it, got screwed by welding place)

The instructor at welding supply place here today thinks as someone mentioned it may be from the fluid used in making the mandrel bends (inside of pipe) and also that the Schoenfeld guy was full of **** saying I needed to purge a mild steel tube when welding.

The outside of pipe was perfectly clean but never crossed my mind to clean the inside. Thats what happens when you get old the things that should be basic just are no longer in the brain . . . LOL

Another simple thing instructor said when asking my age how well I could see, turns out what I was seeing was "not much".

So now lets say I have a new Lincoln welding hood along with the proper magnification lens for the distance needed. (never knew they existed)

Its been one of those turn welder on, weld . . . Forgetting I have welded slim to none with the tig in past 5yrs.

So for starters:

1) Being able to see what I am doing (new hood with proper lens)

2) Cleaning inside of pipe

3) Purchased a gas lens (have not bought supplies since 2000)

4) After having current month electric bill of 855.00 trying to be a cheapskate and turning lights off, will turn lights on in area . .

5) Practice on other sections of pipe before messing these headers up and further

6) Start all over like it never happened

7) Keep visiting Garage Journal for advice

8) Make another attempt at welding . .

 

[Chuck122]

As far as purging go, I'd buy a double flow meter regulator rather than buy another bottle AND another single flow meter regulator
For your piping, I'd try to clean the **** out of it with acetone and/or burn anything out with the blue wrench.
Are there residues around your weld or in the tig cup like yellow white powder. Sometimes dirty metal/thunsten/filler does that.
How does the electrode look? Perhaps you are not pushing enough argon. If the is the case, your electrode may look eroded and you will get residues as mentioned earlier

 

[Tig Master]

I would go with 1/16" electrode and get some .045" mig wire ES706 and weld those pipes up in a heart beat.Can't see not purging a problem with steel tubing.

T

 

[theknurl]

for welding mild steel
Linde 65 ER70-2
also used for 4130 less than 3/16" thick
I'd go with 0.045 rod and feed a little faster
I prefer to make the parts fit and just burn them together......

the bends are probably contaminated with the white grease they use with mandrel benders......clean them with lacquer thinner

no need to back flow, you don't do it with a MIG welder

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Thanks to all for the help!

Interesting stuff I had not run into before.

I purchased a new hood so I could at least see somewhat better. Also inserted a #2 magnifying lens to help improve that. Never had a issue trying to see close before.

I first took a couple scrap pieces that were cut in my chop saw with a abrasive blade.

Even tho the pieces were perfectly clean it was sparking like a stick welder when I tried to weld. Not much fun trying to weld it.

This is pretty much what I was using before 1/16 Red tungsten (I also added a filter to cup and larger cup)

I thought I would try same thing but using a new carbide metal cutting blade. WOW, what a difference.

My first practice pieces using the metal cutting blade carbide tipped.

I know I know I am in need of practice . .

Inside looks about the same as outside.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Somehow it seems to make a huge difference in what the pipe is cut with. Dont understand how . .

Problem is my headers are already built so cutting with good blade will surely not help me now. I will plug along and hope that at least by the time I get done I will have a weld I will be happy with! LOL

 

[TimeWarpF100]

As far as purging go, I'd buy a double flow meter regulator rather than buy another bottle AND another single flow meter regulator
For your piping, I'd try to clean the **** out of it with acetone and/or burn anything out with the blue wrench.
Are there residues around your weld or in the tig cup like yellow white powder. Sometimes dirty metal/thunsten/filler does that.
How does the electrode look? Perhaps you are not pushing enough argon. If the is the case, your electrode may look eroded and you will get residues as mentioned earlier

I would go with 1/16" electrode and get some .045" mig wire ES706 and weld those pipes up in a heart beat.Can't see not purging a problem with steel tubing.

T

for welding mild steel
Linde 65 ER70-2
also used for 4130 less than 3/16" thick
I'd go with 0.045 rod and feed a little faster
I prefer to make the parts fit and just burn them together......

the bends are probably contaminated with the white grease they use with mandrel benders......clean them with lacquer thinner

no need to back flow, you don't do it with a MIG welder

I did buy some more filler rod in various sizes.

I will try a few to see what works best.

Time for one more practice piece then on to making another attempt at headers.

Part of this project is doing most everything myself. Some parts will simply not turn out as well as others.

As long as I can get the headers all "fused" together and add some paint it will be pretty hard to see unless someone crawls under truck with a magnifying glass . .

For me not being able to see and difficulty bending over to look underneath . . .

 

[APEowner]

I'm glad you're making progress. I've got a couple of hints for troubleshooting in the future. As you've discovered contamination is a big issue with TIG. The tricky part is figuring out where it's coming from. I've seen it in pretty much every part of the process including dirty argon and defective tungsten.

When I run into trouble I lay a bead on an uncut surface of stock without filler. If that has issues I switch to a tungsten that has worked before. If that doesn't work then I swap out the gas. Once I get a good bead then I add filler and move to welding a joint. Contamination can come from anything that touches the material or the rod including (as you discovered) cutting tools.

 

[theknurl]

TimeWarpF100;
if you cleaned the inside of the bends you eliminated the bending grease......

BUT you cut them with an abrasive cutoff saw.....look at the burr.....got pretty hot didn't it......the sparks are white hot in the presence of air (oxygen)

instant oxidized steel aka RUST.....not much but enough to make a mess.....been making prototype pipes for 30 years

cut it with a band saw and kiss it with a disc grinder.....my 16" Apex makes it perfectly flat......rod not even needed

drink less coffee.......LOLOL

I have 5 helmets all set up with different lenses and magnifiers