TIG welding training suggestions

[dmevis]

Hi there.

I am a pretty experienced with Oxy-Acetalyn, Stick, and MIG welding. However, I have always wanted to weld aluminum so I recently purchased a Miller Diversion TIG welder. I assumed that since I can weld with gas and with electric, that TIG welding would not be that hard to pick up.

Boy was I wrong!

Although I have only tried a few times, my TIG welding *****! Actually, I have been unable to successfully join 2 pieces of aluminum by TIG. I have tried different combinations of gas pressure, amperage, electrode, etc., and I still ****.

I guess I could spend hundred of hours experimenting, but I would like to learn it faster.

Any recommendations for how a generally experienced welder should learn to TIG weld aluminum????

Any suggestions for

 

[IndyGarage]

I bought a Diversion 2 years ago and had the same experience. I couldn't get anything but ugly blobs of metal. I finally broke down and went to the welding supply house and signed up for their class.

I assure you the Diversion will weld aluminum just fine.

Gas pressure - set up for about 14CFM flow rate - the Diversion will do the rest.

Tungsten - pure tungsten - green tipped electrode is best for Aluminum.

I set my Diversion about mid dial for 1/8 inch aluminum.

Here are some other tips:

1. Clean the aluminum better than you would with a mig machine. There is an oxide layer on the outside of the aluminum that actually takes 2x the heat to melt than the Aluminum. Once you burn through it, you are too hot for the Aluminum underneath and you can easily burn through it. Also, the oxide layer can inhibit the current flow through the weld clamp.

2. Make sure the Diversion is set for aluminum welding and set the dial to about mindway on the Voltage selector for 1/8 aluminum.

3. You hold the torch nearly vertical to the work, and with a 1/8 inch standoff - this is critical. Hit the weld button and watch for the puddle of aluminum to form - then advance the torch very slowly and carefully in the direction of the weld, maintaining the 1/8 standoff - not dipping the electrode into the puddle. When that happens (it will) you have to stop and regrind the electrode off and start again.

Good Luck
Indy.

 

[evildky]

weldingtipsandtricks.com

my tig welding still ***** but it got me making weld instead of messes

one thing I gfound was you want more electrode than you think, and a little more gas flow, at least this helped me YRMV

 

[USMCdodge]

Biggest things for aluminum
1. CLEAN the **** out of your metal. wet sanding is best.
2. Green tip tungsten. its pure and better for aluminum.
3. make sure your welding with plenty of argon and ventilation.
4. before you start actually welding, run an arc over half the area your going to weld. just a quick pass to make it shiny. this will clean and warm up the metal. Doing that greatly improved the quality of my welds.
5.go slow.

One more general tip, if you use your right foot when welding, try the left. we use the right foot for gas in a car and most people have a tendency to stomp the pedal down when using the right foot. you will get it. its taken me a loooong time and a lot of metal to become proficient.

 

[t100]

#1. try Red tip tungsten, yes, by the book you should use Green(pure), but my experience with inverters, they seem like the 2%.

#2. grind the tungsten to a blunt, not sharp point.

#3. setup the tungsten sticking out of the cup no more than 1/16", less chance you stick it to the work piece.

#4. keep 90* between the tungsten and filler rod, at all time.

#5. know what you've got before you start, not all aluminum alloys are weldable. find out what kind of aluminum you have, 60** is the best, easiest to weld. pure and 20** aluminum when they melt, they are just like welding lead.

#6. start with thicker pieces, D165 can handle 3/16" with no problems at all. thinner ones are tougher.

#7. use 3/32" 5356 rods. argon at 15-20psi

#8. keep a good 3/16" gap between the tungsten and work piece.

#9. floor the pedal(if you have one, I hate the finger control), scale back once the puddle starts.

make sure you can do good stinger beads before you melt 2 pieces aluminum together.

 

[Griff93]

Have you tried welding mild steel? It's a lot more forgiving and easier to learn pedal control with. You are trying to weld aluminum on AC current with a continuous hi frequency, right?

 

[Graham08]

I second the comment on starting with steel. Once you get proficient with welding steel, then move on to aluminum...it will still be frustrating, but hopefully less so.

The other thing I can suggest is start out welding aluminum in the range of 0.090"-0.120" thick. Thinner than that can be really tricky to find the balance between making a puddle and blowing a hole. Much thicker and you will be up against the limits of your machine.

Another thing that will help is to start out by making beads on a flat piece before you try to weld anything together. It will help you get the hang of what the puddle looks like, and how to dip rod without worrying about joining two pieces together.

 

[Vicegrip]

#1. try Red tip tungsten, yes, by the book you should use Green(pure), but my experience with inverters, they seem like the 2%.

#2. grind the tungsten to a blunt, not sharp point.

#3. setup the tungsten sticking out of the cup no more than 1/16", less chance you stick it to the work piece.

#4. keep 90* between the tungsten and filler rod, at all time.

#5. know what you've got before you start, not all aluminum alloys are weldable. find out what kind of aluminum you have, 60** is the best, easiest to weld. pure and 20** aluminum when they melt, they are just like welding lead.

#6. start with thicker pieces, D165 can handle 3/16" with no problems at all. thinner ones are tougher.

#7. use 3/32" 5356 rods. argon at 15-20psi

#8. keep a good 3/16" gap between the tungsten and work piece.

#9. floor the pedal(if you have one, I hate the finger control), scale back once the puddle starts.

make sure you can do good stinger beads before you melt 2 pieces aluminum together.

This^ I will add start with 1/8 thick metal to learn on and read the book that comes with the welder and do what it says. Clean means eat off it clean.

Tig is a 3D activity. 2 hands and a foot being goverened by 2 eyes and a brain.

Do not go slow. Aluminum needs to be hit hard and fast. the heat moves fast in aluminum. As said floor it until you get the puddle going then back off as needed. By the time you ar done you might be at 30% of the starting amps.

 

[toolman1967]

I agree to start with steel to perfect your technique. Clean the aluminum (The oxide forms quickly and must be removed as it melts at almost TWICE the temp as the AL) I use Ceriated tungsten (orange) ground to a blunt tip. 15-20 CFM Argon.....practice...practice....practice.

Millerwelds has some great videos to help get started with all different types of welding processes. You can also find some very informative videos on Youtube.

 

[dnschmidt]

My suggestion is to SCREW TIG. I honestly haven't got either the eyesight nor the talent for holding something exactly 1/16" above another object which is what you need to TIG weld. Truth is that TIG welding is a skill like shooting pool. You either got it or you don't and in my case I don't. My solution was to buy a Propulse 200 MIG. This sucker welds thick and thin aluminum without the slightest issue in pulse and double pulse mode. It puts down a stack of dimes by itself without my inept attempts to do so. TIG, unless you've got a 400A machine is very limited in the thickness of aluminum you can do and is at least 3-4 times slower than the Propulse, which, buy the way does not need a spool gun. I fought the TIG battle and got my *** handed to me so I changed the rule book. Get the Propulse and be happy. As previously stated TIG *****!!!!!! Did I use enough of exclamation points there?

 

[pi_guy]

My suggestion is to SCREW TIG. As previously stated TIG *****!!!!!! Did I use enough of exclamation points there?

That is a different opinion.
It is not that hard it takes a bit of practice most often being able to gas weld makes life easier.
A class with experienced tig person might just make the difference.
Practice running a bead down the center of an 1/8 Al plate this will get you close.
You need to be able to see the puddle clearly if you can not you need to solve that issue first.

I have a hand held tungsten grinder solves the contamination issue if your tip has hit the puddle regrind it. I start with a sharp tip and with Al it will ball if your doing it right. Others start with a rounded tip but I find to start with a sharp tip it gets the Al to a puddle faster then it will ball.

Avoid using chemicals to clean you can generate issues with chemicals passing through the arc, grind to clean.

I do a lot of one off repairs and at times is impossible to clean. I tack weld it in small sections and wire brush the contaminates off.

A tig welder in most race shops is the primary welder so it can not be that difficult.

 

[dr_clyde]

Ok. Lots of old/outdated info here and some stuff is just plain wrong.

Lets start with torch and machine settings.

Gas is pure argon. Flow 15-25 CFH. Use a #6-#8 cup.

Set it to 150 amps to start, you may need to max it out if you can't get a puddle within a second or so. Use AC current, and if you have a high frequency switch, set it to continuous. While capable, the diversion is a little undersized for aluminum.

You want a 3/32" or 1/8" electrode. I run 1/8' for most everything. Use 2% ceriated or lanthanated. Thoriated is ok, but will splinter at higher amperage on AC. Throw the pure tungsten in the garbage. It was designed for use on welders from the 70's like the 330 A/BP. Newer machines use Ceriated or Lanthanated. The come from the factory with Ceriated. You can use the same electrode for AC or DC.

Sharpen to a point, then maybe blunt the tip a very slight amount. The positive half of the waveform will shape the electrode to the shape it needs to be. Don't worry about the tungsten too much. If it is clean and not all covered in base metal contamination, it will weld sharp or blunt.

Your base metal should be clean. You don't need to go overboard. You just want there to be no paint, oil or grease, or heavy scale or oxides. The AC waveform will etch and break up the surface oxide and remove it. You don't need to clean everything within an inch of its life for practice. I rarely do anything to aluminum before I weld it. Unless its an old and really nasty repair, new metal is fine to just start welding on. I saw a thing for wet sanding? Really? That's absurd.

Filler wire is base metal dependant. For common 3003 and 6061 use 4043 filler. If there is anodizing involved, or the base is 5052, use 5356 filler. I keep 1/16" and 3/32" handy, I use them the most.

You want to keep a tight arc. As tight as you can without constantly touching the base metal. Keep your filler rod in the shielding envelope.

The truth of it its, it all takes practice. Nothing you read here will make you a better welder. You need to spend the time under the hood and just run beads for a long *** time to get good at it.

It's not witchcraft. It just is different than steel. Not harder or easier, just different.

Here are a few shots of a tank I make for a customer. I do about 6 of these a month for him. .090" wall 5052 aluminum. I have my Dynasty 200 set at 200 amps, 100 HZ, maybe 70% EN balance and I use 1/16" 5356 wire for the tank, and 3/32" for the brackets.

I don't clean these at all. They come straight off the laser, get bent and I weld them. The brackets get a vibratory tumble to take off the burrs. If there any burrs on the sheet I just hit it with a file quick.

 

[Daveo]

Ok. Lots of old/outdated info here and some stuff is just plain wrong.

Lets start with torch and machine settings.

Gas is pure argon. Flow 15-25 CFH. Use a #6-#8 cup.

Set it to 150 amps to start, you may need to max it out if you can't get a puddle within a second or so. Use AC current, and if you have a high frequency switch, set it to continuous. While capable, the diversion is a little undersized for aluminum.

You want a 3/32" or 1/8" electrode. I run 1/8' for most everything. Use 2% ceriated or lanthanated. Thoriated is ok, but will splinter at higher amperage on AC. Throw the pure tungsten in the garbage. It was designed for use on welders from the 70's like the 330 A/BP. Newer machines use Ceriated or Lanthanated. The come from the factory with Ceriated. You can use the same electrode for AC or DC.

Sharpen to a point, then maybe blunt the tip a very slight amount. The positive half of the waveform will shape the electrode to the shape it needs to be. Don't worry about the tungsten too much. If it is clean and not all covered in base metal contamination, it will weld sharp or blunt.

Your base metal should be clean. You don't need to go overboard. You just want there to be no paint, oil or grease, or heavy scale or oxides. The AC waveform will etch and break up the surface oxide and remove it. You don't need to clean everything within an inch of its life for practice. I rarely do anything to aluminum before I weld it. Unless its an old and really nasty repair, new metal is fine to just start welding on. I saw a thing for wet sanding? Really? That's absurd.

Filler wire is base metal dependant. For common 3003 and 6061 use 4043 filler. If there is anodizing involved, or the base is 5052, use 5356 filler. I keep 1/16" and 3/32" handy, I use them the most.

You want to keep a tight arc. As tight as you can without constantly touching the base metal. Keep your filler rod in the shielding envelope.

The truth of it its, it all takes practice. Nothing you read here will make you a better welder. You need to spend the time under the hood and just run beads for a long *** time to get good at it.

It's not witchcraft. It just is different than steel. Not harder or easier, just different.

Here are a few shots of a tank I make for a customer. I do about 6 of these a month for him. .090" wall 5052 aluminum. I have my Dynasty 200 set at 200 amps, 100 HZ, maybe 70% EN balance and I use 1/16" 5356 wire for the tank, and 3/32" for the brackets.

I don't clean these at all. They come straight off the laser, get bent and I weld them. The brackets get a vibratory tumble to take off the burrs. If there any burrs on the sheet I just hit it with a file quick.

Solid advice! If you dont understand that, ask questions...

I will add, with my diversion, I max out the heat setting. Then use the thumb wheel/ foot feed to control the temp. I struggled for quite a while, contaminating the electrode (dipping it) was my biggest problem. Dip it, just stop and re-grind it!

 

[EdT]

If you learned to weld with gas as I did, you will tend to move the torch too slowly. TIG is a lot like gas welding, but a lot hotter so things need to move along. I've been learning TIG for almost 4 years now and I would say that I am "competent/adequate" on steel but on stainless and aluminum I'm still way too variable. I have good days and days when the muse is just not with me. I believe there is some natural talent at play and some people will be better at TIG or any other kind of welding, than other people. If you have a natural gift for it, you are lucky. If not, all the practice in the world is not going to make you a star. It will, however, make you able to stick stuff together and not be embarrassed for some one to see it. BTW, I took up TIG, in large measure, because I could never get the hang of MIG. Always too much metal and not enough weld. With TIG you can control both much more easily. There are a lot of good how to's on Youtube, but not enough showing "if you tried to do this, and you got that, here's what you did wrong." I'd like to see more of that.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

Solid advice! If you dont understand that, ask questions...

....... I struggled for quite a while, contaminating the electrode (dipping it) was my biggest problem. Dip it, just stop and re-grind it!

I double end grind 5 short tungsten before I start, that I way when I dip it, I've got 9 more shots at it before I have to stop. I still have to stop sometimes.

 

[danyo492]

Dr_clyde hit the nail on the head, but here's my two cents.

TIG welding, like a lot of things, is all about prep work. I clean all the aluminum I weld with acetone, and don't use anything besides a file to get the burs off. Grinding discs at the shop I work at get A bunch of **** in the aluminum I don't want.

Personally, I TIG aluminum better than I do stainless. *scratches head in confusion*

But anyway, I have always sharpened my pure tungsten on bothe ends and let it ball on its own while welding and I've never had any issues. I have a Diversion 180 and I love that thing. No issues, and I just upgraded to a flex head. Best advice is practice, practice and more practice. You'll start to get the rhythm of everything.

 

[kingchevy]

2

Dr_clyde hit the nail on the head, but here's my two cents.

TIG welding, like a lot of things, is all about prep work. I clean all the aluminum I weld with acetone, and don't use anything besides a file to get the burs off. Grinding discs at the shop I work at get A bunch of **** in the aluminum I don't want.

Personally, I TIG aluminum better than I do stainless. *scratches head in confusion*

But anyway, I have always sharpened my pure tungsten on bothe ends and let it ball on its own while welding and I've never had any issues. I have a Diversion 180 and I love that thing. No issues, and I just upgraded to a flex head. Best advice is practice, practice and more practice. You'll start to get the rhythm of everything.

How did you upgrade your torch? I want get that aftermarket kit to convert to Dinse plugs but not until my warranty is up.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Lots of good info so far, following...

 

[matt_i]

One piece of advice is if you are trying to get the first "pool" to stick and you have either grey or black soot all over, its time to stop and clean it a lot better. Somewhere there's oil or oxide or something that's interfering, and its not ever going to get better or go away, you will fight it the entire time looking like junk until you clean it up.

I wirebrush the backside of the weld also, its a bigger stainless brush I got from McMaster Carr. Usually the prep is considerably longer than using the actual torch.

Once shiny pools appear you are on your way.

 

[danyo492]

Re: 2

How did you upgrade your torch? I want get that aftermarket kit to convert to Dinse plugs but not until my warranty is up.

I just upgraded the torch body to one that flexes. Really awesome for getting tricky angles and what not.

This is the torch body I got.

https://www.gasandsupply.com/i/PROFAX-WP17F-TORCH-BODY-PX17F-_PFXPX17F

 

[RNN14Wolfe]

My suggestion is to SCREW TIG. I honestly haven't got either the eyesight nor the talent for holding something exactly 1/16" above another object which is what you need to TIG weld. Truth is that TIG welding is a skill like shooting pool. You either got it or you don't and in my case I don't. My solution was to buy a Propulse 200 MIG. This sucker welds thick and thin aluminum without the slightest issue in pulse and double pulse mode. It puts down a stack of dimes by itself without my inept attempts to do so. TIG, unless you've got a 400A machine is very limited in the thickness of aluminum you can do and is at least 3-4 times slower than the Propulse, which, buy the way does not need a spool gun. I fought the TIG battle and got my *** handed to me so I changed the rule book. Get the Propulse and be happy. As previously stated TIG *****!!!!!! Did I use enough of exclamation points there?

That's terrible advice. Anyone can learn to tig. And there's certain things that require it, like roll cages, you can't MIG those.

Spool guns are only for high volume production work, or if you don't give a damn what the welds look like. They have their place, but don't convince someone to give it up entirely.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

That's terrible advice. Anyone can learn to tig. And there's certain things that require it, like roll cages, you can't MIG those.

Spool guns are only for high volume production work, or if you don't give a damn what the welds look like. They have their place, but don't convince someone to give it up entirely.

I bought a spool gun just so I could weld Aluminum, I'd like to learn TIG, but I also know my abilities...it was quicker to buy a spool gun to "just stick it together" than learn TIG at the time. MIG with a spool gun isn't easy to learn on your own. I've yet to be able to do less than 0.080 and get it to look 1/2 way decent.

BTW, you can MIG roll cages...if it's mild steel...

 

[thejimmy]

Ok. Lots of old/outdated info here and some stuff is just plain wrong.

You want a 3/32" or 1/8" electrode. I run 1/8' for most everything. Use 2% ceriated or lanthanated. Thoriated is ok, but will splinter at higher amperage on AC. Throw the pure tungsten in the garbage. It was designed for use on welders from the 70's like the 330 A/BP. Newer machines use Ceriated or Lanthanated. The come from the factory with Ceriated. You can use the same electrode for AC or DC.

Sharpen to a point, then maybe blunt the tip a very slight amount. The positive half of the waveform will shape the electrode to the shape it needs to be. Don't worry about the tungsten too much. If it is clean and not all covered in base metal contamination, it will weld sharp or blunt.

Your base metal should be clean. You don't need to go overboard. You just want there to be no paint, oil or grease, or heavy scale or oxides. The AC waveform will etch and break up the surface oxide and remove it. You don't need to clean everything within an inch of its life for practice. I rarely do anything to aluminum before I weld it. Unless its an old and really nasty repair, new metal is fine to just start welding on. I saw a thing for wet sanding? Really? That's absurd.

I'll jump in on this 7 year old thread,
dr clyde is right, although you can use pure tungsten it's not ideal and certainly not the best for inverter machines, the attached chart is from Miller.

 

[dr_clyde]

Ha. Didn't even see that it was that old. Oh well. The info is still good.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I'll jump in on this 7 year old thread,
dr clyde is right, although you can use pure tungsten it's not ideal and certainly not the best for inverter machines, the attached chart is from Miller.

LOL, good catch

I just went back to see how it got revived.

It's still good info.

 

[RNN14Wolfe]

I bought a spool gun just so I could weld Aluminum, I'd like to learn TIG, but I also know my abilities...it was quicker to buy a spool gun to "just stick it together" than learn TIG at the time. MIG with a spool gun isn't easy to learn on your own. I've yet to be able to do less than 0.080 and get it to look 1/2 way decent.

BTW, you can MIG roll cages...if it's mild steel...

Not for certain races, such as the Pikes Peak International Hill climb, or many rally sanctioning bodies, they mandate only TIG welded roll cages.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Not for certain races, such as the Pikes Peak International Hill climb, or many rally sanctioning bodies, they mandate only TIG welded roll cages.

I know it used to be in IHRA and NHRA you could MIG mild steel cages in the lower classes. It had to be 0.134 wall so in the outside of a bend it came out to just over 0.120 thick where the tubing stretched. Maybe someone will chime in and say what the rules are now.

 

[dr_clyde]

Every sanctioning body independently sets the material and process rules for roll cages. THERE IS NO STANDARD. Everything is different. Some allow mig on 1018 steel, some require tig on 4140. Circle track may be different than rally, which is different than Formula Drift, which is different than F1.

I wish people would just read the rules of the racing they want to do and just do that. There are so many worthless threads on roll cage welding all over the internet. Everyone who ever welded on a roll cage is an "expert".

Either way, no one welds aluminum roll cages, so this discussion has no place in a thread about aluminum tig.

 

[pi_guy]

Either way, no one welds aluminum roll cages, so this discussion has no place in a thread about aluminum tig.

They had some in the 60's but they found out when it flipped over and slid on the bar it ground down to easy.

F1 is more about carbon fiber than welding stuff together.