Tile Leveling Systems

[Hounddog]

I thought I'd share a product I'm using now. It's called the Raimondi Leveling System (RLS).... helps keep the tiles all flat and lined up when laying.

The company has a good RLS tutorial that will also get you acquainted with their product.
First, a few disclaimers. I had a tile guy do my floor. He had used a version of this type of product about 4 years ago....so he didn't fight my desire to use it. I chose the RLS type because of the wider wedge which adds to a better leveling capability as it reaches more of the adjacent tiles.

The next morning I decided that I'd "breakaway" the product in order to get ahead of the grout guys arrival. I was trying to avoid a rush job so I also cleaned out the grooves containing squeeze out of the thinset. Beware here...you can easily chip a porcelain tile...use a utility knife to be safe. My initial selection a of 5 way paint scraper...(I believe it's called) ended up chipping two places...very small but annoying just the same. As the mfgr. video shows they break away but the first few did not break away clean below the tile.... So I decided that a lower angle of attack may help...it did, hence the block and dead-blow mallet. I did have to use my pliers a few times to coax a piece out on a few occasions.

"Hainging Chad" we'll call it

Happy with the results...it's flat and "lippage" was near zero throughout. Cost will roughly be $200 in the RLS material.

The grouting process...need to do a final wipe of the haze tonight
Here's video...there's others

If your planning a project...I'd recommend it to a friend.

 

[jjgag60]

thanks for sharing. if you don't mind me asking how much is the installer charging per square or foot in your area. I am in the NW but it would be nice to know what installers charge to do the longer wood like tiles.

 

[Dakota00]

For those who are thinking or planning to use these type of leveling systems for their garage floor. I strongly suggest in NOT using these type of systems. If your goal is to have a indestructible working garage floor which can withstand high impact blows and tasks that includes usage of floor jacks, jack stands, etc, etc. Tiles MUST be installed the traditional way!

 

[ddawg16]

I guess for the novice...not a bad idea.

But it's not hard to do it right without a product like that.

 

[JRC3]

When installing large format tile, use the correct trowel. 1/2" notch.

thanks for sharing. if you don't mind me asking how much is the installer charging per square or foot in your area. I am in the NW but it would be nice to know what installers charge to do the longer wood like tiles.

I charge $5-8/sf for tile and $3/sf for backer board. I'm pretty reasonable for the quality.

This will help you price your area. http://www.homewyse.com/services/index.html

If they are installing backer board make sure they do it properly by putting thinset/mortar under the backer board and then fastening. Fastening alone won't cut it, especially with large format tile.

 

[Hounddog]

For those who are thinking or planning to use these type of leveling systems for their garage floor. I strongly suggest in NOT using these type of systems. If your goal is to have a indestructible working garage floor which can withstand high impact blows and tasks that includes usage of floor jacks, jack stands, etc, etc. Tiles MUST be installed the traditional way!

So please explain how this differs from the traditional way....

 

[Hounddog]

thanks for sharing. if you don't mind me asking how much is the installer charging per square or foot in your area. I am in the NW but it would be nice to know what installers charge to do the longer wood like tiles.

3.50 to 4.00 a sq ft is typical around here.

 

[Hounddog]

For those who are thinking or planning to use these type of leveling systems for their garage floor. I strongly suggest in NOT using these type of systems. If your goal is to have a indestructible working garage floor which can withstand high impact blows and tasks that includes usage of floor jacks, jack stands, etc, etc. Tiles MUST be installed the traditional way!

Second question...who the hell puts tile in a garage? Not here pilgrim. I could see using VTC...but not porcelain or ceramic. We must be doing different things in our shops.

 

[crocket468]

So please explain how this differs from the traditional way....

I'm no flooring man but I'll take a stab at this.. I would imagine systems like this could pull the tiles up creating air pockets and voids under the tile that would compromise strength. Traditional tile laying ensures there is a 100% contact between the tile and floor.

Second question...who the hell puts tile in a garage? Not here pilgrim. You must be city folk. I could see VTC...but not porcelain or ceramic. We must be doing different things in our shops.

Lots of folks on this site, with rave reviews in durability I might add..

 

[Hounddog]

I guess for the novice...not a bad idea.

But it's not hard to do it right without a product like that.

Yep.....hey pull that nose back down before that underside gets sunburned.

 

[Hounddog]

I'm no flooring man but I'll take a stab at this.. I would imagine systems like this could pull the tiles up creating air pockets and voids under the tile that would compromise strength. Traditional tile laying ensures there is a 100% contact between the tile and floor.



Lots of folks on this site, with rave reviews in durability I might add..

To your first point crocket...the movement is not that exaggerated as it pulls the adjacent tiles level...on an already flat floor...travel probably is around 1/16 or so.

With regards to shop flooring.... Hey if tile makes it for you....it's your dime. I weld, sandblast, paint, tear **** apart in my shop. There is no TV out there either. For myself, that level of flooring would not be practical in a workshop.

 

[Angelfire]

With regards to shop flooring.... Hey if tile makes it for you....it's your dime. I weld, sandblast, paint, tear **** apart in my shop. There is no TV out there either. For myself, that level of flooring would not be practical in a workshop.

Porcelain has been discussed on these boards for some time with great results...and in working shops I might add. No floor will hold up to serious welding, but porcelain, when installed correctly, will hold up to everything you mention above. Search for Jack Olsen's video where he's going after his floor with a sledge hammer with no damage at all (he used ceramic). Tile has been used in shops the world over and is a very popular approach in Europe. The key is installing it correctly with 100% thinset coverage which is why Dakota is against the levelling systems for garages. Oh, and the tile doesn't care if there's a TV around either

 

[Dakota00]

Hounddog,

What I posted wasn't to slam the work you guys did in your Jacuzzi room, which turned out great BTW!!
These types of leveling systems are perfectly fine for such applications. Understand you posted this thread in a garage forum, under the flooring section. Where others seeing your thread are thinking this would be a perfect type of system to use for when it comes time to install tiles in their garage.

As mentioned earlier, these leveling systems compromise the bond creating voids "air pockets" to achieve that flat floor. For those considering using tiles in there working garage which will see extremely heavy loads and impact blows this would be a big NO.

For the record, I work in my garage... Be it working on my cars, lawn equipment, woodworking, building or tearing stuff apart, etc... I treat my tiled floor the same as if it were just a concrete slab.

 

[Firebrick43]

Oh, and the tile doesn't care if there's a TV around either

Never had an issue in leveling tile. Just wrap a 30" 2x4 in carpet and lay across several tile and smack with a rubber mallet. Turn 45 repeat, turn 45 repeat and move on to some more.

 

[alexb2000]

Most professional tile jobs I see have some degree of lipage. Working fast and is required since everyone is charging by the foot, but that doesn't mean it's the way it should be. I always grind and/or etch the concrete as required, put a bonding agent down, self leveling concrete filler, isolation membrane, then carefully control the mix of thinset so that the squish factor is roughly the same. Also, wet wiping and then back buttering the tiles also helps with the bond. Do all the prior and these kinds of systems would be a nice way to avoid errors. The point is, shortcuts are shortcuts, and this won't harm the job if it is done right in the first place.

 

[Pwaley]

Good info fellas, thanks. Didn't even know people used porcelain as a garage floor substrate.

 

[Hounddog]

As mentioned earlier, these leveling systems compromise the bond creating voids "air pockets" to achieve that flat floor. For those considering using tiles in there working garage which will see extremely heavy loads and impact blows this would be a big NO.

So as to not quibble... For the "lifting" situation to be a problem....the assumption would be that the installer pushed the tile down within the 1/2in notched troweled prepared mortar bed to a point where that tile needs to be lifted to match the surrounding tiles. I'm going to propose that the amount of lift will be dependent on how the tile is laid on the floor. A lighter touch will be more likely to negate any lift induced air pockets.

This "traditional" way you speak of... We are both using a 1/2 notched trowel...right?

So, folks... now that I understand that there are those that love having tile floors in their 'workshops', and that those said floors perform just as good as....whatever else. I'll close with this. The RLS or another leveling system can provide great results for a DIY project or even if hired out. The tile I used was a rectified porcelain tile that was nearly square edged...so 'lippage' can be more apparent than others with a relieved/chamfered edge. My biggest concern was to have a flat floor...and it is flat. I also went with a 1/16 grout line...there are some references that dictate 1/8 as a standard but the RLS facilitates a 1/16 due to the plastic thickness. To go for a wider space we would have had to use a spacer or eyeball it I guess.

Best of luck with future projects.